Ledge DJ Cancel (Aerial Interrupt)

[ToTs]

Yea you can

ALL frames are invincible?! Perfect!

 

[MintyFlesh]

What's the input for this?

 

[JerkPhil]

Uair when just above the stage or platform. A 2 frame window IIRC. I've become pretty consistent with it in friendlies and will be using it in this weekend's tourney

 

[ToTs]

Ugh it's sooo hard as of right now lol

It's actually really easy, except on battlefield, I often double jump under the stage. So I usually just get up spot dodge, and mix it up with other things.

But this tech is so good on yoshi's

 

[ManoxMano]

Are you guys doing fast fall>AI? I notice when I ff I don't have the invul frames. I guess the time-frame is way more tighter for the normal drop

 

[JerkPhil]

Isn't the point of AI from the ledge to actually get OFF the ledge? o.O

 

[ManoxMano]

fast fall> AI works if you time your jump so samus barely pokes above the ledge. I dont think you keep invincible frames though...so I think Im doing it wrong

 

[JerkPhil]

Oh, are you talking about how you let go of the ledge? (Down or away)

 

[Litt]

Are you guys doing fast fall>AI? I notice when I ff I don't have the invul frames. I guess the time-frame is way more tighter for the normal drop

no, you dont need to ff

 

[ManoxMano]

Damn, tight timing then.
And yeah Jerk, doing a sharp down instead of away

 

[ToTs]

You have to FF on every other stage excluding yoshi's I don't believe you're invincible the whole way through either ( if your trying to WD back to ledge ) same with her hax dash, she's vulnerable at maybe the last few frames before she regrabs ledge. I have the newer 20XX hack, I think Sami's best bet is to just Aerial Intterupt smash attack if they are approaching. Because more than likely for instance Marth, if he throws out that FSmash more than likely it will catch you on your way to regrabbing. The timing for it to be 100% invincible is either not actually possible or you can't miss a single frame. Which is like relying on SWD

 

[ToTs]

I may have misunderstood the FF talk I assume you all were actually talking about the initiation of the AI and not using like a hax dash.

I don't don't FF, I tilt down, diagonal down away, or back. I find back forward is the easiest for me, but that's going against habit I end up doing diagonal down away in matches.

 

[JerkPhil]

Against Marth for instance, we don't want to be on the ledge. At least I have big troubles getting off the ledge safe versus better Marths.
Use the AI to get OFF the ledge instead. It's so fast the Marth can't react to it, which they can to waveland.

Regular haxdashing (with waveland, not AI) is faster anyways, so I don't understand why you bother...

 

[ToTs]

Yeah this tech is crazy easy now, but I just realized I can do it on platforms lol. Since I've started to play a really fast technical Sami, this really speeds up my mobility, and platform chases. To bad it doesn't work for Drop through platform missile. If it does it's slower than doing WL ff SMissile.

 

[343]

I've noticed that Plup seems to be doing this from the edge a lot, since I can't think of any other way to explain how quickly he's getting from the ledge to the stage (as opposed to HugS who still does his patented "pretend to regrab ledge but actually land on stage")

 

[ManoxMano]

Can you get a VOD to illustrate your findings?

EDIT: I have a feeling I know what your talking about, were you watching his EVO matches? Either he's really good at AI'ing, or hes fast falling off the ledge deeper so when he double jumps he snaps to the stage

 

[Litt]

Guys plup is just AIing most of the time, hugs has actually started using them as well, and I have spoken to hugs to confirm that is what he was doing, I have added them into my game as well and both take a **** ton of practice, as for hax dashing with samus, you dont need to be 100% frame perfect to do it, and it is certainly possible and applicable to her game.

 

[ToTs]

I wouldn't recommend AIing on Battlefield in tourney unless your 9/10 consistent with it, no one wants to end up under the stage for DIing to early. I see most Samus do the double jump to make it look like they are refreshing their invincibility but land on the stage and go from there. Not saying don't do it on BF, but understand that thats easily a stock if you are to early on DIing. (just a matter of your opponent edge hogging)

Did you all know you can do it with Fair as well. I believe the timing is later, but haven't tested as far as invincibility. KLiT may already have info about it, I'll mess around and post what I find if someone else doesn't inform first.

 

[ToTs]

Just wanted to add that you do carry your invincibility, but you can't attack out of Fair AI as you can with Uair AI.

 

[Noxus]

Sorry i don't quite understand this tech! How exactly do you do it? Is there a video tutorial on what you need to press and wehn?

 

[343]

It's easier to notice when you're going on a platform (though I'm not sure anyone really knows the exact frame data?) Basically, jump and do an upair around the time most of Samus has passed through the platform, and if you do it correctly, you'll suddenly "snap" to the platform because Samus's upair makes her extend slightly downward.

In the OP's video, he's doing the same thing, but from a ledgehop instead of a "jump-to-platform."

 

[ToTs]

And to add , you can instantly attack from platform to platform with less lag than a waveland. It might actually be lagless

 

[JerkPhil]

There's still landing lag. Still much faster than wavelanding yes.
Anyone knows how many frames Samus wavedash is?

 

[343]

Landfall special landing lag (waveland lag, for example) is 10 frames. For a wavedash, assuming you airdodge at the earliest possible time (4 frames, after jumpsquat ends), it's 14 frames.

From earlier in the thread:

this^

It's named Aerial Interrupting and it's a very viable tactic for samus

In video form;

ty phanna

You Upair (which changes your hurtbox as she goes upside down) within 2 frames of being above the stage. Basically where her head would be -in- the stage, and it'll 'Aerial Interrupt' and you'll simply 'land' on the stage, with 4 frames of landing lag.


Also you are invulnerable for 37 frames upon grabbing the ledge. 29 frames you are free to do whatever.

Frame perfect waveland offers 4 frames of exploitable invulnerability



ALSO

Using those 29 frames, you can air dodge & grapple, and if the grapple comes out before the 29 frames is up, the invulnerability carries through, and you'll be able to re-grab, being invulnerable the whole time.
(Talking grapple near the edge so it'll cancel the grapple and you'll grab the edge.)

So in essence we have 1 invulnerable re-grab to exploit.

 

[JerkPhil]

I've just started to use AI to platforms into isai drop into missile cancel. I think this is even faster than SHFFMC on at least YS and PS...
I can't do it consistently yet, but I find it easier than SHFFMC.

 

[ManoxMano]

Just imagining it in my head thinks I'd be messing it up by doing homing inputs instead of smash

Sounds something fun to learn though

 

[JerkPhil]

I created a new thread for discussions around them.

 

[343]

ok so I've been practicing AI from ledge and such, but what are the best options here? let's say for concreteness, vs the following characters, in the following situations:

fox, falco, sheik, marth, falcon, peach
when

1. crouching at low% right beside ledge
2. shielding right beside ledge
3. neutral stance, just outside ledgehop fair range
4. mid-stage (possibly: with needles charging for sheik, or turnip pulled for peach)

Character-agnostically, it seems at first glance to me that:

1. AI -> shield might be best, or maaaaaybe AI -> upb? (but that could get cc'd.) What about AI -> dsmash?
2. AI -> wavedash through? or just ledgedash lol
3. AI -> shield, or maybe ftilt at higher %?
4. AI -> shield if they have a projectile, otherwise AI -> wd forward ftilt?

but I'm probably super wrong about a bunch of these Any ideas?

edit: i'll just make a thread

 

[gamegod7]

I am so confused on this tech. I Cant seem to get it down when it comes to doing on ledge. No matter what stage, I cant even do it correctly once. I can only do it when it comes to platforms

 

[Litt]

I am so confused on this tech. I Cant seem to get it down when it comes to doing on ledge. No matter what stage, I cant even do it correctly once. I can only do it when it comes to platforms

go into training mode and practice on 1/4th speed, no advice on this tech other than just practice

 

[gamegod7]

go into training mode and practice on 1/4th speed, no advice on this tech other than just practice

got it then. It is like a lot of other things something that just cannot be taught

 

[343]

I think one piece of advice that helped me a lot was to ledgedrop by pressing away instead of fastfalling off ledge with down. Then basically try to ledgehop upair, but time it so it AIs.

 

[Litt]

got it then. It is like a lot of other things something that just cannot be taught

No... we taught you how to do it with the frame data and visuals... as well as flat out instructions of what you should be doing and when.... you just werent doing it correctly because you didn't practice it enough, thats like saying you can't teach someone wavedashing... uhh ya you can... they just wont be good at it or even be able to do it until they practice a lot

 

[Samuch]

No... we taught you how to do it with the frame data and visuals... as well as flat out instructions of what you should be doing and when.... you just werent doing it correctly because you didn't practice it enough, thats like saying you can't teach someone wavedashing... uhh ya you can... they just wont be good at it or even be able to do it until they practice a lot

Wait, you mean just knowing the name of a tech is not enough to know how to do it? LIES!

 

[JerkPhil]

It's about the same timing as a ledgedash. Press away to let go like 343 said.

 

[Litt]

Wait, you mean just knowing the name of a tech is not enough to know how to do it? LIES!

No.... but knowing what the tech involves, the exact frame data, and video demonstrations are...

 

[Samuch]

No.... but knowing what the tech involves, the exact frame data, and video demonstrations are...

Still not enough! You can know all the numbers by heart, but if your fingers can't keep up with the brain then you are **** out of luck! Plus, you can execute it perfectly, but still not understand the "why" aspect of a tech. Practice is the only thing what will give you what you need to learn a tech.

 

[Litt]

Still not enough! You can know all the numbers by heart, but if your fingers can't keep up with the brain then you are **** out of luck! Plus, you can execute it perfectly, but still not understand the "why" aspect of a tech. Practice is the only thing what will give you what you need to learn a tech.

practice is the only thing that will give you what you need to master a tech consistely but a blind squirrel will stumble upon a nut eventually and do a tech

 

[343]

I'd like to point out that the last few posts (except Jerk's, which is about something else) have all been in agreement with each other, though some of them contained sarcasm