Q&A Link's Take Over - Q&A and General Link Discussion

[-tRiNiTy-]

Whoa not bad, I mean 36 entrants' already a pretty legit tourney. I got more or less the same placement in a smaller tourney last month.
You got vids of your sets?

 

[huMps]

I wasn't meaning to be charecter specific. Just pointing out some great Link recovering. Good job at your tourney btw

 

[Rubyiris]

What is Link's best Neutral against Peach?

What is Link's best legal counter-pick against Peach?

When Peach is in shield, what do?

 

[-tRiNiTy-]

If you're good at avoiding her DSmash, then I would go for YS because of the low ceilings. It guarantees you many safe finishers like DThrow to UAir.

If you ever get stuck in your shield, try to quickly jump onto a platform and resume your spacing.

More info to come, in school right now ^^'

 

[Rubyiris]

i asked when Peach is in HER shield.

 

[-tRiNiTy-]

i asked when Peach is in HER shield.

Ah, my bad xP

Well I usually start poking her shield with jabs (spaced!!) just to see what they do when they're in their shields. Their only decent options imo are sidestep and rolling away, that's pretty much all they can do if you space yourself really well, unless they're like insanely fast with their OoS game (à la Armada). You can also mix it up with some SH NAirs or FAirs, spaced of course. This is important because if you don't space yourself enough, you'll get caught by a grab, NAir or a random CCed DSmash OoS, so always space yourself accordingly. Once you get a grasp of his habbits, you can start baiting him with empty jumps or WD back f. ex., it really depends on your opponent.

That's how I proceed at least, lemme know your tactics too ^^

 

[Rubyiris]

My tactics: Push more buttons, faster than my opponent.

It works out fairly well, to be honest.

(I main Falco.)

 

[dablackpacman]

Good looks on da kutos guys. We got anothr one comin wit more ppl.

I don't have good fox exp, I didn't get many of vids recorded but here's my opener where I got handed too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=YvWa0z2zeTE

 

[-tRiNiTy-]

Good looks on da kutos guys. We got anothr one comin wit more ppl.

I don't have good fox exp, I didn't get many of vids recorded but here's my opener where I got handed too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=YvWa0z2zeTE

Hmm I'll try to review it as best as I can then:

The first thing that I noticed is your predictability with the Up-B, you definitely have to play more safe, I had to let go of this habbit too haha. Trust me, it's noo good x)
Especially against a Fox who can waveshine you blind across the stage. Try altering your DI back and forth to mess up the timing if you can't get out, at least that's something you can do about it...

Also, you shouldn't just blindly approach when the Fox is very far away from you because he can easily punish your SH approaches, I would suggest you to first throw a projectile before approaching, or just wait for him to approach you so you can punish HIM. Use more FH NAirs to mix it up a bit, it's the best move if you wanna force Fox into his shield or into a corner (that's where he's the most vulnerable) so abuse it! ;P
Always throw out your aerials from a distance and well spaced so that the Fox player starts feeling uncomfortable and unsecure, I know it's pretty hard to do this consistently during the heat of battle but it's important nonetheless, I guess this is something you have to keep on practicing. ^^"

But I enjoy watching your Link though, keep it up! =P


And just LOL @ Rubyiris haha

 

[dablackpacman]

Good looks. Ya I kno bout the up-b n it was honestly jus jitters a lil bit. Nervous johns for playin a good fox main. Not to mention, a lot of my timing were off, which were controller johns cuz my thumb n cstick covers ripped off so my thumbs were turnin purp. Like I think fox is to be fought from short hop aeriels. Like falco I approach thru full jumps to avoid his lasers, n fox wuld punish fulls wit a usmash. But since he doesn't have stun lasers, I think immense shield pressure approachs shuld be **** if they off balance from projectiles. Or am I wrong?

 

[cjugs]

Good looks. Ya I kno bout the up-b n it was honestly jus jitters a lil bit. Nervous johns for playin a good fox main. Not to mention, a lot of my timing were off, which were controller johns cuz my thumb n cstick covers ripped off so my thumbs were turnin purp. Like I think fox is to be fought from short hop aeriels. Like falco I approach thru full jumps to avoid his lasers, n fox wuld punish fulls wit a usmash. But since he doesn't have stun lasers, I think immense shield pressure approachs shuld be **** if they off balance from projectiles. Or am I wrong?

I don't understand your question,
The biggest thing i can say is yeah there was plenty of stuff where we can say this beats this and this beats this but mostly you put yourself in bad situations the WHOLE time weird places to attack you camped the edge which isnt bad for other chars but link can be gimped easy and fox will see you camping he thinks well i got the stage behind me and he will wait for u to grab a bomb a up or grab or something people like to bait links grab and upb, and your link is pretty slow you don't have to try and make it real fast or anything but you should at least wavedash waveland ect.

You had a few times were you had fox above you and didn't capitalize, you don't have to woop the crap out of him every time but when's hes above think about the options he has to take example when you missed your upair tech chase on the plat he was on the far left side of the stage above you and you end up not doing anything about it. fox doesn't like being above link so put yourself in his shoes and think about how he wants to get down which should be when you grab. just stuff like that don't feel bad though that fox was purrdddy good.

 

[dablackpacman]

You had a few times were you had fox above you and didn't capitalize, you don't have to woop the crap out of him every time but when's hes above think about the options he has to take example when you missed your upair tech chase on the plat he was on the far left side of the stage above you and you end up not doing anything about it. fox doesn't like being above link so put yourself in his shoes and think about how he wants to get down which should be when you grab. just stuff like that don't feel bad though that fox was purrdddy good.

You mean at like 1:50 when I hit him with dash? With him so high up, I really didn't know what to do. But ur right, I prolly shuldve approached the ledge, cuz if I was fox, link away from the edge is what id want

 

[dablackpacman]

The next tourney is on the 13th CJugs, you guys should come up. BigD n all those ohio guys are suppose to be there

 

[Rubyiris]

how do people deal with the fact that most of the cast can CC ANYTHING Link does until 60%?

How do people deal with people who shield a lot, but are good at anticipating, and or reacting to grab attempts?

How do people deal with being stuck in shield? aerial > jab from characters like falcon/peach/falco/ganon/yoshi catch my attempts to jump out, or grab. stuff like aerial > aerial by Falco/Fox beat out my attempts at attacking out of shield. I've only had success with rolling/spot dodging a lot, but that gets predictable.

These are my current hurdles I need to overcome with Link, currently. Recovery, spacing, and general mind games have been developed already.

 

[cjugs]

You nair to much fair has more range so do that more.
Rubyiris depends on which characters ganon sheik and popo can CC link for awhile but it's not to bad.
Ganon can but you have to try and switch up DI or try to DI in the middle so he can't tell which way to grab it's a pretty good CC game for Ganon, Popo probably has the worst CC of these three if you DI his dthrow away and slightly down Most IC players will miss this. Sheik yeah sorry try using a platform or switch up DI this CC is really easy and really hard to get out of. When you are stuck in your shield against falcon im guessing with the knee jab thing you can upb or roll but try to do it after his grab it causes alot less shield stun or if you are really feeling lucky try and upb idk much about peach but spacies upsmash and upb usually work but you shouuld be rolling more than anything. Ganon has almost no way of pressuring your shield after he jabs at you so just roll or jump or something. I have never played a yoshi so idk on that one. i wouldn't ever spot dodge that's a little dangerous and probably going to be punished.

 

[Rubyiris]

You nair to much fair has more range so do that more.
Rubyiris depends on which characters ganon sheik and popo can CC link for awhile but it's not to bad.
Ganon can but you have to try and switch up DI or try to DI in the middle so he can't tell which way to grab it's a pretty good CC game for Ganon, Popo probably has the worst CC of these three if you DI his dthrow away and slightly down Most IC players will miss this. Sheik yeah sorry try using a platform or switch up DI this CC is really easy and really hard to get out of. When you are stuck in your shield against falcon im guessing with the knee jab thing you can upb or roll but try to do it after his grab it causes alot less shield stun or if you are really feeling lucky try and upb idk much about peach but spacies upsmash and upb usually work but you shouuld be rolling more than anything. Ganon has almost no way of pressuring your shield after he jabs at you so just roll or jump or something. I have never played a yoshi so idk on that one. i wouldn't ever spot dodge that's a little dangerous and probably going to be punished.

From what I gathered from your post, since some of it was irrelevant, or generally incorrect, my only option is roll.

I'd like some other opinions, though.

 

[-tRiNiTy-]

how do people deal with the fact that most of the cast can CC ANYTHING Link does until 60%?

If this is the case, try grabbing more.

Also, I would recommend you to, until the opponent's at about 40%, concentrate more on projectiles. You can rack up more damage this way without ever needing to approach. Of course, if you're up against the likes of Falcon or Fox (who are insanely fast at intercepting Link's camping), it can be hard to pull a projectile out so bombs are generally the safer option if you get the chance to pull one out, but these characters's CC aren't as dangerous if you space yourself correctly.

You can also try to lure your opponent into the air (through projectiles f.ex.) and possibly start a combo out of an UAir or UTilt, another possibility.

Keep in mind that you too have a decent CC, mainly DSmash. At about 50% iirc, they won't be able to CC your DSmash anymore, so be sure to use it sometimes. DTilt is another great move to counter CC's since it always pops your opponent up into the air so if they try to CC it, they'll have to tech the hit on the ground, and the tech generally isn't fast enough to hit Link in time (meaning: you can shield or dodge during the lag from the tech).

How do people deal with people who shield a lot, but are good at anticipating, and or reacting to grab attempts?

Well, the only thing I can tell you here are mixups, like really x)
Link has some pretty decent shieldpressure imo, you can FH NAir, DJ Double NAir, SH FAir, jab... and it goes on x)
Alternatively, I would try to bait a grab and react with a grab of your own from a distance. Since Link has really good ranged attacks and possibly the longest grabrange (next to Samus),ii's like a perfect job for Link. Of course, you have to be good at it haha

How do people deal with being stuck in shield? aerial > jab from characters like falcon/peach/falco/ganon/yoshi catch my attempts to jump out, or grab. stuff like aerial > aerial by Falco/Fox beat out my attempts at attacking out of shield. I've only had success with rolling/spot dodging a lot, but that gets predictable.

Unfortunately, there isn't mmuch you can do lol
Link doesn't have the fastest OoS options, so roll & dodge are like his only "safe" options against spacies, Peach , unless your opponent f***s up his shield pressure.
Against Falcon and Ganon, you just have to react to the timing of their jabs. Ganon has some lag after a jab so try shieldgrabbing him after it.
Falcon's a bit trickier though, since he can mixup his jab pressure. If he happens to often use the jab-jab-jab combo, you can NAir or Grab OoS after the 3rd hit. But aside from that, it can be hard to get out of his pressure, I usually just observe his habbits and try predicting them.

A'ight, hope that helped a bit. I would also like to hear what the others think about this, I'm kind of afraid of telling any wrong information haha

 

[huMps]

rubyiris - for recoveering, juat use all your options and mix them up. Get good with your grapple, and I don't just mean acurate. I mean know how and when to snap in vs hanging or jumping out of it. Link can be very hard to edge guard. And use boomerang so they can't get comfortable on the edge.

Link in shield is bad period. Agianst anybody. Just don't sit in it. If I get stuck I'll usually full jump nair or look for a skraa opening. Just try to be quick in and out. Out of sheild options against peach I find to be the worst. Rolling out of shield is generally very bad with link cuz it's slow and link eats combo's. It obviously has it's place though.

Shield pressure - I think this is one of link's strong points. this is where link can really mind game too. Space your fair well and start poking. You can wait for them to do something stupid and punish or you can dtilt under their shield and uair combo or dair. tons of options just be creative. I've been trying out jab or jab jab to nairing through them and pressuring their back.

 

[Scabe]

Anyone want a rename for this thread?

 

[Skler]

School got hard again all of a sudden. Why does UNH have to be like that?

I miss not writing papers and reading 100 pages a day. Those were good times.

On a side note, Link is still the most fun ever.

 

[dablackpacman]

I wish I had someone to help me in smash. We have our smashfest ech week, n I be tellin my boys what they need to look out for and where they can improve, but noone gives ME any advice back. Wish I had some better smashers to play.

Any ways, anyone have new vids or anything?

 

[-tRiNiTy-]

Anyone want a rename for this thread?

Nah it's okay lol, I think the title pretty much fits the discussion going on right now haha

 

[Rubyiris]

Recovery isn't an issue for me, lol.

Another issue I'm having: I don't use projectiles enough. I'm not finding myself opprotunities to throw a boomerang, or pull a bomb. I play with VERY aggressive players, so it's difficult to find safe times to get a projectile out. How do people deal with players like this?

@Trinity: Poop, I was kinda hoping for a different response. You've basically just told me everything I do, just to get better at it.

Vidya get: Note: I've played Link competitively for 4 days now. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYQg68IBI2s

best of 3 set vs a local puff player. I'll have vids up against various other characters later today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG65EPmx0s0

best of 3 set with one of my roommates who prior to my moving, had quite a bit of Link exp.

 

[Bacon Isai]

NO ESCAPE

Spoiler

from my aggression

 

[-tRiNiTy-]

@Trinity: Poop, I was kinda hoping for a different response. You've basically just told me everything I do, just to get better at it.

Uhh well... All I did was answer your questions lol
What answers were you expecting then? If I've told you everything you basically do, then there shouldn't be a problem with what you do ;P

Also, for someone who just started playing Link, you get the job pretty well done ;P
You have to be less spammy with your Up-B though, but I'm sure that you already realized it x)

Oh and your second Link doesn't work lol

 

[dablackpacman]

Ya I liked ur link too, seems like u have his tech skill down u just need to learn his match ups n the lil link stuff, like straightening out from tumble, how to recover n don't dair jiggz off the stage at 0% lil

 

[Rubyiris]

There's a few things about link I just up and forget to do, lol. There are plenty of opportunities to recover better, such as times that I could have hookshotted, but panicked and tried to spin attack to safety, or times where I'm carrying a bomb and try to hookshot, or times that I could have wiggled out of tumble but either didn't do it fast enough and died, or panicked, and, again, spin attacked.

Still working on figuring out what it's safe for me to spin attack oos versus Jigglypuff. I forget that she can weave in and out of my shield, outside of my range.

The dair off-stage was kinda spur of the moment. Don't judge me! ;_;

Also, I fixed the second link (eheh)

 

[Scabe]

Nah it's okay lol, I think the title pretty much fits the discussion going on right now haha

Cool, well let me know if you guys ever want something done with this board. I'll continue to lurk.

 

[dablackpacman]

so anyone tryin to come up for that tourney? They jus announced a $20 bounty to anyone who beats our top player

 

[dablackpacman]

Ps, if he isn't busy, I'm sure M2K might even be there, he comes to our tournies occassionally

 

[cjugs]

The next tourney is on the 13th CJugs, you guys should come up. BigD n all those ohio guys are suppose to be there

Where is the thread for housing and everything about the tounry?

 

[dablackpacman]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286110&highlight=ann+arbor

Juggleguy said he could provide housing

 

[UNO EMOJI]

.........,..................

 

[M@1funk$hun]

^^^ what a legit name

 

[A2ZOMG]

Does anyone happen to know what makes me randomly fail at Bomb Jumping? I mean, where the Up-B DOES connect with the Bomb, but fails to detonate it?

 

[dablackpacman]

Does anyone happen to know what makes me randomly fail at Bomb Jumping? I mean, where the Up-B DOES connect with the Bomb, but fails to detonate it?

When you throw the bomb up, u don't want to hit the bomb with ur sword, u want it to hit ur head. So throw it up, di towards the stage so that when it comes down it misses ur sword, but u want to di back towards it so it hits ur head n which u wanna di back towards the stage when it hits u

 

[Rubyiris]

gonna have an asston of new link footage later tonight. Look forward to it.

 

[Skler]

Bomb jump failing when you hit with the last hitbox of Link's upB is because your upB was not at full power. Only a full strength SKRAAA! (so you need to of had 10 moves connect before your last SKRAAA! if you want to bomb jump) can break the bomb with the last hit.

 

[Rubyiris]

Got third at a local using link most of the tourney. First guy went Sheik, so I copped out and played top tier characters. Everyone else I went link

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11591737&postcount=5508

GG7 and I had the most interesting set ever. Look forward to it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

When you throw the bomb up, u don't want to hit the bomb with ur sword, u want it to hit ur head. So throw it up, di towards the stage so that when it comes down it misses ur sword, but u want to di back towards it so it hits ur head n which u wanna di back towards the stage when it hits u

Bomb jump failing when you hit with the last hitbox of Link's upB is because your upB was not at full power. Only a full strength SKRAAA! (so you need to of had 10 moves connect before your last SKRAAA! if you want to bomb jump) can break the bomb with the last hit.

Thanks for the tips. I think I know my problem...I don't recover enough with Hookshot, and I tend to try to hit my opponent with aerial Up-B when recovering. Then when I DO rely on Bomb Jumping...that's when it fails.

I suck at recovering with Link in this game. I'll try not to in the future.