Low and Mid Tier Tournys?

[TheCommonSmasher]

I rember reading on the Smashwiki on how in the early days of Melee, there were tournys that only let you use Low or Mid tier charecters. Now i think these sound awesome, but i dont see any for smash 4.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I've been thinking about this idea for a long time now, and I have full support of it.

Smogon has lower tier ladders that give otherwise completely unviable Pokemon a chance to shine without any silly gimmicks or without being outclassed by something else. While this isn't competitive pokemon, it could benefit from this for the same reasons Pokemon does; this is a game about the characters, and we have a lot of them. The way I see it, the more viable ways to use different characters, the better.

...Of course, we don't even have an official tier list yet, do we?

 

[Wonderf]

Well, smash 4 is still relatively new, and doesn't have the established high,mid and low tier yet. To add, I think more balance patches for smash 4 will come soon. Also smash 4 is pretty balance like "x" characters are countered by "y" characters yet "y" characters are countered by another kind of character.

 

[TheCommonSmasher]

Well, smash 4 is still relatively new, and doesn't have the established high,mid and low tier yet. Also I think more patches for smash 4 will come soon.

Perrsonaly. I can see it now.


LOW TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Little Macs, Charizards, Zeldas, Gannons, etc.

MID TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Pits, Weegees, Palutenas, PacMans, Shulks, etc.

 

[Wonderf]

Perrsonaly. I can see it now.


LOW TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Little Macs, Charizards, Zeldas, Gannons, etc.

MID TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Pits, Weegees, Palutenas, PacMans, Shulks, etc.

You never know, any can happen, remember in the early days of melee when jigglypuff was considered low tier.

 

[TheCommonSmasher]

You never know, any can happen, remember in the early days of melee when jigglypuff was considered low tier.

yeah. but this is as of right now.

 

[TheCommonSmasher]

and things will only get crazier when more DLC Charecters arive (Ryu, Roy, Lucas, (Im still hopeing for) Aran Ryan, etc.)

 

[MrTeddyBear]

Perrsonaly. I can see it now.


LOW TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Little Macs, Charizards, Zeldas, Gannons, etc.

MID TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Pits, Weegees, Palutenas, PacMans, Shulks, etc.

As other people here said, we don't have any tier list that is even close to an ideal one that we can use to determine low and mid tiers, and everyone has a different opinion on how good characters are compared to others (for example you are one of the few people that I heard say that Luigi is mid-tier).

 

[Kurri ★]

Perrsonaly. I can see it now.


LOW TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Little Macs, Charizards, Zeldas, Gannons, etc.

MID TIER TOURNYS: Dominated by Pits, Weegees, Palutenas, PacMans, Shulks, etc.

Mid Tier: Weegee... I guess there's a first for everything...

Personally the idea sounds boring. Why limit the cast of playable characters? To help let them shine? But they're shining among other's of their group. Seeing a Gannon beat a Charizard is nowhere near as impressive as a Gannon defeat a Shiek.

 

[TheCommonSmasher]

Mid Tier: Weegee... I guess there's a first for everything...

Personally the idea sounds boring. Why limit the cast of playable characters? To help let them shine? But they're shining among other's of their group. Seeing a Gannon beat a Charizard is nowhere near as impressive as a Gannon defeat a Shiek.

Limit the cast? Is that not what already happens at major tournys? Only the top 5 every getting any play? At mid and low tier tounys. You see charecters that you would NEVER see at APEX or somethin

 

[ZephyrZ]

Mid Tier: Weegee... I guess there's a first for everything...

Personally the idea sounds boring. Why limit the cast of playable characters? To help let them shine? But they're shining among other's of their group. Seeing a Gannon beat a Charizard is nowhere near as impressive as a Gannon defeat a Shiek.

If this works anything like Smogon does it, you could still use Ganon in high tier tournies if you so choose.

 

[Kurri ★]

Limit the cast? Is that not what already happens at major tournys? Only the top 5 every getting any play? At mid and low tier tounys. You see charecters that you would NEVER see at APEX or somethin

But last Apex there was a Pac-Man, Olimar, Little Mac, and Duck hunt in top 8. Then there's people like Nairo (The Pits) and AeroLink (Pally) who are pushing their characters. Diddy dropped in popularity after the patch.

Smash 4 is far from only ever seeing the top 5 in majors.

If this works anything like Smogon does it, you could still use Ganon in high tier tournies if you so choose.

I figured that's how it'd work, and it sounds cool... but I still stand by my point. Not to mention that the two games aren't all that comparable. Just the fact that Pokemon has 721 characters vs Smash 4's 52 I'd argue is enough proof.

 

[ZephyrZ]

But last Apex there was a Pac-Man, Olimar, Little Mac, and Duck hunt in top 8. Then there's people like Nairo (The Pits) and AeroLink (Pally) who are pushing their characters. Diddy dropped in popularity after the patch.

Smash 4 is far from only ever seeing the top 5 in majors.

That may be impart due to the still developing metagame, but you make a fair point here. Most characters are pretty viable.

However, we still won't be seeing Charizard winning any major tournies any time soon.

I figured that's how it'd work, and it sounds cool... but I still stand by my point. Not to mention that the two games aren't all that comparable. Just the fact that Pokemon has 721 characters vs Smash 4's 52 I'd argue is enough proof.

You're also correct in this; pokemon and Smash are very, very different in almost every way.

The simplest solution is to split it into only two or three groups. For instance, if we had bottom-30-only tournaments and bottom-15-only tournaments, the bottom-15-only tournies would still theoretically have a large enough pool of characters to have diversity.

Of course, I can't imagine these things being as big as the high-tier tournies would be, so they'd probably best be left as side events.

 

[PK_Knee]

I rember reading on the Smashwiki on how in the early days of Melee, there were tournys that only let you use Low or Mid tier charecters. Now i think these sound awesome, but i dont see any for smash 4.

I definitely think this would be a great idea, instead of swarms of Diddy, there would be a more variety of characters

 

[Diddy Kong]

I definitely think this would be a great idea, instead of swarms of Diddy, there would be a more variety of characters

Nobody is playing Diddy anymore though except for ZeRo, and even he is some times switching to Sheik at the moment. Everyone only enjoyed Diddy for the bad stuff he brought, and he's still hated for it even! As how it stands now, Diddy is bound to become exactly like he was in Brawl: full of potential, hardly played as. Outside of Player 1 and ADHD, hardly anyone played Diddy in Brawl... Now in 4, he's massively dropped for Sheik.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I could have swore there was a Low Tier tourney using the old Japanese tier list that came out about a month after release.

Falco is low mid to them ;_;

 

[Diddy Kong]

I can already see Charizard blazing through victory with Dragon Rush in these tournaments. Good reason to keep practising the Flying type with bad recovery.

 

[Ansou]

While I think this might be a fun idea as a side event, I really think the metagame is too young for it to be done properly. Of course we know roughly which characters are top and which are bottom tiers, but we don't have a really solid and developed tier list right now. I'm having enough fun with regular tourneys as I think every character is at least decently viable, but I could see this as a thing when the meta has started to go stale, although that will probably take a long time.

 

[Dream Cancel]

The problem with this is that Smash 4 is not a static game albeit the patches usually don't introduce major buffs/nerfs. The strongest nerfs have hit Diddy Kong, Rosalina & Luma, and Sheik but they're still at the top of the meta.

However, the gap between characters in the meta and those out of it is closing. Look at Nairo, he's #2 (as of this post) and he plays Pit, Dark Pit, Robin, and ZSS.

 

[Piford]

This can't work for Smash 4 yet because there's no defined tiers. What characters are high tier? How many are high tier before you have too many? There would be a lot of debate around if X character should be legal in a tourney or not.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I could have swore there was a Low Tier tourney using the old Japanese tier list that came out about a month after release.

Falco is low mid to them ;_;

There was one indeed. Grand Finals was Robin dittos, with Kalm's Ganon taking 3rd, The main problem with low and mid tier tourneys right now is that no one really has a clue about tiers outside of like the top 5-10 characters. There's not much separating the characters outside of top tiers, and there aren't any truly terrible characters, as most low tiers do fine outside of a few nasty high tier MUs, and there's nothing remotely comparable to Brawl Ganon who outright loses to everyone else in the game. A lot of characters right now simply aren't represented well enough for us to place them.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I can already see Charizard blazing through victory with Dragon Rush in these tournaments. Good reason to keep practising the Flying type with bad recovery.

Charizard's recovery isn't all that bad. His horizontal recovery is great, and his vertical recovery is good enough.

The only problem is his terrible, terrible air jumps.

The problem with this is that Smash 4 is not a static game albeit the patches usually don't introduce major buffs/nerfs. The strongest nerfs have hit Diddy Kong, Rosalina & Luma, and Sheik but they're still at the top of the meta.

However, the gap between characters in the meta and those out of it is closing. Look at Nairo, he's #2 (as of this post) and he plays Pit, Dark Pit, Robin, and ZSS.

Yeah...maybe we should just stick with "bottom half" tournies if the Smash community ever does go through with this.

Though we all seem to agree it's too early to actually do these yet.

 

[Dream Cancel]

Yeah...maybe we should just stick with "bottom half" tournies if the Smash community ever does go through with this.

Though we all seem to agree it's too early to actually do these yet.

There are some characters that would need a major boost to get out of the pits of the "low tiers." A good example is Zelda. She still has reasonable match-ups against characters that must approach her, if they have no projectiles or if they can't punish her Neutral Special.

For those reasons I'd argue her match-up versus someone like Captain Falcon, Sonic, Rosalina & Luma, Mario, Ness, and Luigi are actually not as bad as some people have been led to believe. Sheik and Diddy Kong are the main reasons she's low though.

However, Zelda is has the bad combination of being tall and light with nothing to offset that weakness, like what Luma does with Rosalina.