Lucario's overall changes in Smash 4

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

With the 3DS version out soon, we're gonna get a huge influx of new information on what changed with Lucario from smash 4, I'll be updating this OP on all the information that is 100% confirmed to have been changed or is the same. If you have any information that is confirmed, provide a link to the evidence and posts that confirm something is the same or is change.

• Overall

Aura has been buffed for how much it influences him compared to Brawl, moves seems to scale differently with aura in terms of knock-back and damage.
His smash attacks have been claimed to be faster.
He skins are green, purple, dark gray, and the rest are shades of blue.

• Jab

Jab is the same in terms of knockback, the animation and hitbox is slightly differently. Might be slightly harder to link the whole thing together.

• Dash Attack

Still not affected by Aura. Seems to kill pretty decently. Lag seems to be mostly the same from Brawl, it doesn't have the follow up potential it had in Brawl it seems, not sure needs more testing.

• Ftilt

Is a forward swipe, not a double hit poke anymore. It can be angled.

• Dtilt

Seems pretty much the same from Brawl.

• Utilt

Same as Brawl mostly, still is very fast. Has some good kill potential.

• Fsmash

A lot of changes here. It's faster overall, still hits like a truck. It doesn't linger anymore and doesn't hit behind him.

• Usmash

It's a little buffed this time, faster start-up a little less reach, but it sucks people into the strong hit. Also kills at lower percents.

• Dsmash

Same as Brawl in animation, comess out faster, kills faster, and it has more range. Yeah just overall a straight buff.

• Uair

Only thing changed is that his whole body is not a hitbox anymore. Pretty much the same.

• Dair

Doesn't stall like in Brawl, less range. Still functions like Brawl just those two main changes.

• Fair

Fair strings still possible, it's harder to follow up this time since some characters need you to use your double jump this time now. Less carry off potential.

• Bair

Different animation but still the same as Brawl's overall.

• NormalB

Still Aura sphere from Brawl with a new visual to it, It travels faster in both forms and is closer to the ground. At max Aura it kills lighter characters at 60%.

• SideB

Still Force Palm from Brawl with what looks like a slightly new visual to it, The whiffed Force Palm seems to do more knockback than in Brawl grab hitbox is smaller than before. Falling behind someones shield and doing the frame 8 aerial grab still works like in Brawl.

• UpB

Still the same from Brawl visually His Extreme Speed now scales with Aura on Distance. It has a hitbox at the end of the UpB. The movement curving is even stronger.

• DownB

Same as Brawl with updated visuals. Damage and Knockback still unknown.

• Pummel

Dunno right now seems the same.

• Fthrow

Seems the same from Brawl.

• Bthrow

Seems the same from Brawl, except now scales with Aura.

• Uthrow

Seems the Same from Brawl.

• Dthrow

Seems the same from Brawl, except now scales with Aura.

• Final Smash

Changed from Aura Storm to Mega Lucario. Instead of shooting a large Kamehameha Lucario will now transform into Mega Lucario where his Aura is at Maximum power.

• UpTaunt

Same.

• SideTaunt

Same.

• DownTaunt

Same.

Overall: He seems like he got a few nerfs but was straight buffed overall.

 

[Kami~]

Why don't you travel to japan and figure this **** out

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Because someone else is doing it for me and I can update this as we go.

 

[monkokaio]

So as far as we know Extreme Speed only damages during his final smash?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So as far as we know Extreme Speed only damages during his final smash?

No, from what we know it doesn't do damage.

In the demo I recall that being Force Palm that did it.

 

[monkokaio]

http://youtu.be/7xUWnQu2Grs?t=20m58s

You can see that it's definitely the end of his up B that hits though. It's way before he even starts Force Palm.

 

[Auramaniji]

No, from what we know it doesn't do damage.

In the demo I recall that being Force Palm that did it.

Well that's a massive disappointment, I can only hope that the custom moves in the game allow him to preform a extreme speed with damage (Or at the very least a custom move that has a damaging recovery).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

http://youtu.be/7xUWnQu2Grs?t=20m58s

You can see that it's definitely the end of his up B that hits though. It's way before he even starts Force Palm.

Hmm thought that might have been dash attack.

I'll update with this in mind.

 

[Aurane]

Lucario's fully charged Aura Sphere is larger and is charged and fired closer to the ground compared to Brawl's Lucario, which is a notable change that should be noted. This was confirmed by Sakurai on Lucario's reveal day.

Is this not true anymore?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario's fully charged Aura Sphere is larger and is charged and fired closer to the ground compared to Brawl's Lucario, which is a notable change that should be noted. This was confirmed by Sakurai on Lucario's reveal day.

Is this not true anymore?

I'll take a look at that footage again for this later.

 

[RT]

Fascinating...

I can probably contribute a little to the list on Saturday.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I'll be keeping an eye on this. Really appreciate ya setting up this thread btw.
I'm really excited to see the improvements we got to our toolbox and I'll try and contribute what info I happen to come across via videos, but I doubt it'll compare to someone who actually has the game. :T

 

[Sunnysunny]

My small contribution to this thread.

It looks as though Lucario extends his arms (and possibly his hurtbox) during his f-smash animation. And the animation for down smash definitely suggests an increase in range. His taunts and colors are also confirmed here as well.

 

[Ganreizu]

Isn't up-b supposed to be an approach option? The direct clearly had his up-b cancel upon contact with a character, which would explain why it goes as far as it does. It might not do damage but if it stuns long enough to get a follow up smash attack out of it...and with his allegedly faster smashes, too...

 

[Sunnysunny]

WOAH!
So lucario got A LOT of nice little visual updates from the stream! They really gave him a lot of love~ All the animations look completely redone from the ground up!

Um anywho~

-Jab has changed visually. The last kick, lucario's foot gets bigger and has a wider arch. The 2nd hit of his jab has noticeably more range as well. Knockback looks like it functions the same though
-Dash attack has COMPLETELY changed. The kick keeps lucario's running momentum. Kinda looks like a running drop kick honestly. Looks like it could be safe if spaced right too. It reminds me a lot of ZSS's.
-F-smash really IS quicker. It looks VERY sudden when the actual hitbox shoots out. However, it seems like it doesn't linger nearly as long as it use to. Still, pretty nice. Other smash attacks wern't shown much unfortunately. =/
-Down air does not halt momentum completely this time. However, it still slows it by a considerable amount. Easily enough to still do D-air stalling when recovering.
-For down throw, he still slams the opponent into the ground, but it looks...manlier! Honestly all his moves look manlier.
-Force palm looks manlier too. He kinda reels back a bit before blowing them away.

Really i'm just.
****ing floored from all the nice visual changed they gave him~ <3 They really represented the "fighting type" in him this time around!

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah a ton just got revealed time to data crunch for all the videos.

 

[hichez50]

Idk, if it was just me, but was it hard for you all to see fsmash. Also Fmash looks to have a similar animation to force palm. I couldn't tell, but either force palm or Fsmash got more range with the more aura lucario had.

 

[Sunnysunny]

It was force palm that got the range boost with Aura~
but I never got to see any of Lucario's moves be used at high percent from the streamers so far. =/ I Gotta play the wait game. Bahh! Honestly, I feel a little guilty for even watching the steam. Ha! I think i'm not gonna spoil myself any further.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If the range scales with Aura I can finally stop telling people he didn't get more range with Aura in Brawl like everyone kept thinking for a long while.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

If the range scales with Aura I can finally stop telling people he didn't get more range with Aura in Brawl like everyone kept thinking for a long while.

Ah, the good old days.

 

[RT]

Ah, the good old days.

More like the dark days of deaf ears.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Ah, the good old days.

The **** still happens! I get asked this once every tournament. :V

 

[Kami~]

So everyone who's used Lucario on stream has never played a smash game before

Does he still have the same general playstyle? Like Fair linking into other aerials and stuff? and was it just me or did it look like his dash attack almost killed once, if so that sucks if the dash attack -> uptilt thing is taken out

 

[RT]

Generally, you will need someone who knows how to play the character to test out that character's specifics and note any differences.

I'll test a few specifics regarding combos and hitboxes and other misc tomorrow, since I know what to look for. I won't be listing frame data or anything like that, I'll leave that to the more dedicated...

And yeah, dash attacks for a lot of characters seemed to be buffed for a quick attack and KO option. I guess they wanted them designed to be more useful in Smash 4...

 

[Masonomace]

I'm a little bummed out from Lucario's Smash Attacks having Force Palm visuals now. There's no flaring pulses of Aura bursting from his paws, however I'm quickly accepting it. Haven't even seen Double Team yet because streamers don't know how to DownB, nor F-air.

U-tilt appears to be a very reliable KO option now.

Also this wiki page so far of confirmed information seems trustworthy. http://www.ssbwiki.com/Lucario_(SSB4)

 

[Zoa]

Was watching shofu's stream and caught a glimpse of AS damage at mid 120%. It does around 26% with dsmash doing 18% uncharged. Didn't notice if it was stale or not. So his aura scales much more quickly than that of Brawl Lucario's.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Kind of hard to say for sure without seeing percentages though.

 

[RT]

I'll try to determine approx Aura gains tomorrow.

I suspect they capped it at a lower percent, so you get benefits faster.

 

[Masonomace]

Kind of hard to say for sure without seeing percentages though.

Definitely. That's why I felt suspicious of myself saying U-tilt is a reliable KO tilt. Snake taught us a lot.

 

[hichez50]

So everyone who's used Lucario on stream has never played a smash game before

Does he still have the same general playstyle? Like Fair linking into other aerials and stuff? and was it just me or did it look like his dash attack almost killed once, if so that sucks if the dash attack -> uptilt thing is taken out

Yes, Zero was playing him earlier today. Fair strings are still a thing. Bair seemed stronger overall when zero was using lucario. Other than that Zero wasn't impressed, because lucario couldn't combo in upper percent(duh, I don't know what he was expecting).

 

[RT]

Like I said, you need someone with past experience to get accurate info.

I feel many early snap predictions will be wrong.

 

[hichez50]

Like I said, you need someone with past experience to get accurate info.

I feel many early snap predictions will be wrong.

I agree, Lucario has so many intricacies due to his aura ability.

 

[ChillySundance]

Got to see some interesting things in the recent stream found here

http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4...elaxalax-as-co-host-sept-12th-6pm-est.363585/

Like someone earlier said, a lot of his animations and hitboxes appear to have been touched. As a Brawl Lucario main, a few things I noticed immediately was that his attacks seemed to come out faster but have more precise, sharp hitboxes as opposed to the slowish but long-lingering aura moves of Brawl, especially his Ftilt and Fair. So while he's faster for sure, he might have to be a bit more cautious about throwing out his moves. It also seemed like Ftilt now only does one hit instead of two, but I might be wrong.

Dair looked to me like the hitbox was a lot narrower horizontally than in brawl, but still looks to be a fantastic move. He can still use it to stall his momentum immediately after jumping, but the momentum coming down is a bit harder to predict and will take some getting used to.

Up smash appears to be much easier to land on standing opponents. It's more of an uppercut now instead of a ballet twirl, with particle effects that indicate a greater horizontal range. Seemed like it had better KO power. Fsmash also appeared to be more narrow and precise, but had great range.

Another thing that jumped out at me was that the projectile portion of his forward B seemed greatly improved. It comes out much faster and has a more aggressive animation, along with greater range, even at 0%. It's definitely quicker than his Fsmash now and safer to poke with.

up B is hilarious, at high levels of aura, Lucario just kind of takes off into space. I believe that up B has a hitbox if you steer it into the ground near the opponent as demonstrated in his reveal trailer, but nobody was able to test that.

 

[RT]

I spend some time playing some CPUs and in training on Trela's 3DS, checking various things. Here are my impressions

• Overall

To my surprise, it seems max Aura cap has been increased. AS capped at 187% (it did 29%). Not sure this is the cap for ALL moves, would require more testing obviously. It also looks like Aura is no longer based on stocks. I tested this in a 3-stock four player match by doing a jab combo, SD'ing twice, and then trying the jab combo again. It consistently did 5% each. So a slight nerf for doubles, and no more Anubis strategy. Again, would need someone to test to confirm is true. A lot of the hitboxes do not match up with what you see visually.

• Jab

Jab seems about the same, but the combo itself pops them up more. Since you cannot jab cancel (at least I couldn't), you can't do jab->grab/dtilt/grab/etc.

• Dash Attack

Still not affected by Aura. Anyways, it is an okay kill move (like most dash attacks in this game), and probably has the same amount of lag. Pops them away, so definitely cannot follow up with utilt.

• Ftilt

No longer multihit, can still be angled. I think a little less range.

• Dtilt

About unchanged from Brawl. I didn't really test

• Utilt

Same move as Brawl, didn't really test kill potential. It's still good since it still coves all around him and comes out fast, which most utilt in this Smash do not do.

• Fmash

One of the biggest changes, it looks like it comes out faster, and still hits hard. No longer a lingering hitbox, and does not hit slightly behind him. Not a good idea to spam it this time around.

• Usmash

Faster than Brawl but has less horizontal coverage and doesn't stay out as long. It reminds me of Marth's Usmash where it can slightly drag people into the strong hit if they are nearby. I think it kills better, but not sure.

• Dsmash

Feels like it has increased range and does more knockback. It's faster, so it might be more reliable for killing/punishing.

• Uair

Biggest change is his entire body is no longer a hitbox, only the Aura part is.

• Dair

As already mentioned, less stall and hitbox seems to be smaller for each hit. Still a pretty good move overall

• Fair

Fair strings are still possible at low percents

• Bair

Different animation, seems to be the same overall

• NormalB

Travels faster overall. Uncharged AS still has the wave movement. Still has a hitbox while charging. Visual flash to indicate full charge has been achieved.

• SideB

Biggest change is that the aura part is actually useful for killing when Lucario has Aura. Again, the range doesn't match-up with the visuals, but it still has a lot of range, more than fsmash. The damage and knockback of the Aura part is based on distance. The farther away, the less damage and knockback it will do. The grab still is as powerful as ever when Lucario has Aura, but when Lucario slams his palm into the player, there is a small explosion so it can hit players behind the person that was grabbed. Even on whiff, it has less ending lag than Brawl, I think.

• UpB

Pretty insane at max Aura. He goes pretty far, but not brokenly far. It is comparable to Diddy's new UpB in terms of controls, you can do almost half-circle trajectories. He also maintains momentum from the direction he is going when the move ends, so if you do go diagonally, you'll still be flying that direction a little when the move runs out. So you can go straight then curve back onto the stage and end far away far from the edge. Pretty easy to control and curve around, will require practice to be unpredictable with it. Still has a lot of landing lag if you land while in freefall. If you curve along the ground before the end of the move, it is similar to Brawl where you have minimal ending lag. The end of the move has hitbox with the Aura part, similar to how Greninja's UpB can hurt you.

• DownB

Pretty much the same move, but the opponent sort of sticks in place, similar to other counters in the game. So, I think it is a guaranteed hit for most close range attacks. You can still control which direction you appear.

• Pummel

Did not test (whoops)

• Fthrow

Did not test (whoops)

• Bthrow

Seems to be the same. Maybe slightly more knockback?

• Uthrow

Did not test (whoops)

• Dthrow

Did not test (whoops)

• Final Smash

Pretty much as described

• UpTaunt

Same

• SideTaunt

Same

• DownTaunt

Same

So yeah, there we go. He's still a solid character and can still be threat in doubles, especially against characters with problems killing. He will again lose to characters that can kill early, but he's not nearly as helpless while recovering.

It'll be interesting to see how his meta develops.

 

[Masonomace]

Nice! @ RT
This is shocking to hear, but I'm happy of your run-down on DownB. So glad that it can be controlled the same as it did in Brawl, & especially glad to hear that opponents to proc the Double Team will be put in Freeze Framing. Maybe now the move is guaranteed to always hit.

Mostly, I'm down about the close-combat game without any jab canceling to Jab grabs / command grab FP, but still happy to hear about all of your impressions.

Only bad news really to me is his non-returning Anubis strategy. That feels like the biggest news for Doubles Lucario mostly.

 

[RT]

Yeah, Double Team is *gasp* actually useful.

It sucks that he lost a lot of options out of jab, but a lot of characters did.

Not sure how to describe his playstyle at this point in time.

 

[Jaguar360]

Found a pretty decent video of Lucario vs. Villager that shows off Lucario's faster smash attacks, faster Force Palm, down air, awesome new dash attack and more.

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah, Double Team is *gasp* actually useful.

It sucks that he lost a lot of options out of jab, but a lot of characters did.

Not sure how to describe his playstyle at this point in time.

I'd like to see his Double Team proc. I wanna see it's improvement. And the loss of jab follow-up to anything is a bummer, but like you said most did. I still wanna say Lucario can be a wall of pain, his F-tilt, F-smash, & FP all have similar-esque looks when thrown out.

Found a pretty decent video of Lucario vs. Villager that shows off Lucario's faster smash attacks, faster Force Palm, down air, awesome new dash attack and more.

Okay so, one huge thing I wanna mention.
OMG HIS N-AIR ITS COOLDOWN IS SO QUICK<3 @ 2:12

The way he was using Double Team was. . .bad. Owell, the U-air landing lag is not as bad either, it recovers a lot quicker than it did in Brawl. So cool for that, I also noticed Lucario does something at 1:11 while jumping he ASC's, but the animation of visuals looks so different I'm baffled what that is. His new Aura mechanic perhaps?

 

[RT]

Oh snap, nair wasn't on the list.

Yeah, it ends faster, so you won't fall to your death when you use it offstage. Hooray.

That flash is visual indicator that AS has fully charged I believe. A lot of moves in the game now have visual indicators, which is a nice feature.

 

[SmashRacer]

Thanks for sharing RT
That's a whole lot of information
You could might add kill potential at 0% for his smash attacks. For example: Better or same as Brawl
You forgot to add Nair