lucarios recoveries sucks

[TrevynThOt]

well so far I think lurcarios recovery sucks unles theres some advanced away to do it like Marth nuetral Bing back to the stage jiggs forward pound etc.. so far lucarios up B is all i know, but thats pretty bad, not onyl that but his up B doesn't hit so if anyones edge hogging they have no worry about you hitting them so you have to land on the stage leaving yourself open for a free attack, and you can wall stick, thats the worst idea brawl could ever come up with i guess trippings worse cause it's random, but wall sticking what is the point of it all i do is up B to the wall of FD and stick and just hang there til they hit me and hopefuly i go up cause you can't jump after it right or am i wrong.

I was reading some lucario guide and one of the pros was his recovery is good and i thought he was dead wrong so i didn't continue reading it lol so is there any advice on his recovery or am i completely right?

 

[JJ259]

Wow stop failing at life...

Lucario has not only awesome basic jumps but his uB has really deceptive range. You can go below the view on FD and extreme speed back to the edge being one example.

As far as edge hogging is concerned, if you have time, you can always blast an aura sphere at them to knock them off (charge it for a nice spike) and even without that, I would say that 8 times out of 10 you'll be able to curve the uB and land on the stage itself.

 

[Milln]

I'll be blunt.

You are narrow-minded, and wrong.

Wallclinging is magnificent and you simply don't understand how to utilize it since Lucario is the only character that can even do much with it. He has three jumps that go different heights and distances, you can attack right out of it. "It's useless."? That's nonsense. Your enemy is edgehogging you on Final Destination and he knows your UpB doesn't hit. You UpB straight into the wall of Final Destination and not only prevent yourself from dying, you now have many options and mindgames to get back on top of the stage and it's easy to nail someone with your own attack, too, since there's no downtime from stick to jump to attack.

You can curve the UpB in any way you want so if you are on a stage that has no cling-able wall, instead of dying or UpB-ing horizontally onto the stage, UpB into the ground of the stage and you'll bounce away from the opponent. Much too far for them to hit you with anything straight from the ledge.

Troll somewhere else, dude. Seriously. You didn't even give him a chance.

 

[Nodrak]

lol what's with these bowser mains recently?

 

[TrevynThOt]

LOL ok guys I don't mind your cirtics but yaw *****s takin it way to seriously anywayz i'll go on and show how you guys are completely wrong and didn't help me in my obvious situation that i asked to be helped in so i'll start with jj259
now everyone in the games up B is pretty quick so sayin his is quick means nothing so thats a terrible reason, who can't go below FD and make it back besides the worst characters?
and yeah blasting at them while recoverying is ******** no one smart or good will ever get hit by that plus if your below the stage or diagonally beneath it how does that work it would ONLY work if your straight across from them and it blast you backwards so that is a terrible reason yet again. and yeah your right you can curve on the stage if youe being edge hogged but like i said thasts not good cause your open to a free attack duuuuuur where as most of the characters do hit with their up B so have no worrys about being hit cause they can just grab the edge. I fail at life? try saying some good facts before stating some rediculous assumptions about me *******.

neeeeeeeeeeeext

infitan I like that your blunt and able to say I am wrong in a nice non flaming way i respect that cause obviously i don't know much about him and am askin for some help trollin I guess foo I'm askin for help not dissin on this fool I actually play him and I'm probably better than most of you in this form. anywayz lemme prove your facts wrong, first off your right i don't know how to utilize the wall clinging but the advice you give me is to go for the wall after up B now your right i prevent myself from dieing but now what I'm on the wall waiting for them to hit me I can't jump back ot the stage i lose my up B after clinging as far as options go if they come to me i can attack them and fall to my death cause i have no jump and can't up B wow whata option and stating that i can mindgame them sounds extremly noobish btw.
aiming for the ground was the best advice givin from either of you so infi tan gets a point lolz

 

[Nodrak]

You can go below FD and make it back, just involves curving the upB a little o.O
Also, the aura blast while off the edge, the point isn't always to hit the opponent, just to keep them busy for the second it needs to get back.
You can get hit by an attack sure, but all characters have their faults, this is why you wall jump to get height and a free attack in, -especially- on final dest.

The major problem I see is that you just wait there when you wall cling. Don't do that! you can walljump the second you've clung to a wall, it gives you more then enough height and you can do an aerial attack right away. (you lose your upB until you touch ground or grab the edge though)

On FD especially, if they're edgehogging you, upB > wall cling > wall jump > nair and unless they're still in their invincibility frames or have retreated, you can knock them straight off the edge while still having enough momentum to land on the stage and avoid the edge all together

 

[TrevynThOt]

thank you nodrak for actually saying something useful and being respectful about it, now I know i can curve to make it on the stage but you can get hit while recovering where 90% of the characters can't right? so that obviously makes it worse for that reason. now the wall clinging I've never been able to wall jump after so i just gave up on trying but I'm tryin it now and i see i'm ******** i guess i was doin it wrong cause i swear i would push the wall jump direction to perform it and it wouldn't work but now i see how it works.
now this seems ok at best it helps but it's seems pretty easy to predict and he's not invincable when clinging so any character can easyly drop down and swing and if you get hit your ****ed which is lame but doesn't seem to well.
sure you can wall cling and wall jump but all that is so easy to predict "oh he's goin vertically to the stage obviously missing the ledge, all i gotta do is fall and swing with any non slow attack" easy **** right I'm still not persuaded that his recovery is decent compared to everyone elses recovery, which i think you guys are forgetting someones recovery has to be bad and his isn't bad but compared to everyone elses it is so that does make it bad

 

[Milln]

I'm probably better than most of you in this form.

Sounds noobish/scrubbish. (Hey hey, just reciprocating what you said to me. XD)

anywayz lemme prove your facts wrong, first off your right i don't know how to utilize the wall clinging but the advice you give me is to go for the wall after up B now your right i prevent myself from dieing but now what I'm on the wall waiting for them to hit me

Nuh, don't just sit there waiting for them to hit you, plan your next move. You have all the time in the world (really, just approximately 3 seconds, which is equal to all the time in the world in a fighting game.) Not many people, especially not many "high level players" will chance going down there after you, especially on a stage like Final Destination, where the ledge is part ceiling and you can easily get caught under there.

I can't jump back ot the stage i lose my up B after clinging as far as options go if they come to me i can attack them and fall to my death cause i have no jump and can't up B wow whata option

This is kind of hard to understand cause it's a run-on sentence, but I can kinda make it out. You're right, if you used your UpB to cling to the wall, you can't do it again. So don't just stay out there, get back to the ledge. Don't jump all the way out go to the trouble of saving yourself just to die again. You can attack them if they're still on the ledge hanging(they shouldn't be, a smart player would get back up on the ledge and wait for you) by fairing, then taking the ledge for yourself or getting back on stage.

If they get back on stage you have a number of options which i'll get into after I requote this part:

and stating that i can mindgame them sounds extremly noobish btw.

I apologize. I should've given examples. Typical scenario: You're on the wall under Final Destination and the opponent is on top of the stage waiting for you. You can:
Bair them
Go for the now clear ledge
Go for getting back on stage and air dodge
Go for getting back on stage and attack with any of your aerials.
If you still have your mid-air jump, you can fake 'em out and go right back to the wall.

For just a few options you have.

aiming for the ground was the best advice givin from either of you so infi tan gets a point lolz

Yay points. =D

 

[JJ259]

Just an fyi, not sure if you took me saying extreme speed as saying it's quick. The name of his uB is extreme speed.

Also, if someone is edge hogging you, and unless they time the hog so that they have invins. frames at that moment (in which case it wouldn't matter whether or not your lucario you would get hogged anyway) it's actually quite easy to pop one at them and break the hog. By the way, being able to go below FD and make it back with solely your uB is pretty impressive (by below i mean off screen).

Here's the way I see it, the only times I ever die from lack of recovery is if i mess up (hit nair by accident or assume i have a jump left when i actually dont). Edge hogs are an issue because uB doesn't do damage but there are ways around that on many stages(using wall cling, wall jump or even curving it).

One last thing, to state that you're one of the better lucarios without knowing how to properly recover makes you look pretty noobish also.

After uB and wall cling (the situation you explained in your post) you can push forward and you do a wall jump that will easily get you back to the platform as well as give you a chance ot attack someone who was edge hogging/guarding you.

 

[TrevynThOt]

man wall cling can easyly get ***** it's not like your invinsable so any quick swing by anyonecan hurt because now he's force to curve on the stage cause they can easy get back on the edge and edge hog allowing him to be free to get hit more, I am comparing Lucarios recovery to falcons in melee sure it's decent but at the same time it's easy to edge guard and get ***** causing a easy kill. come on how can you guys not see that it's not that good COMPARED to everyone elses, in not so good play it doesn't get owned as bad but in high good play it does. and I've played alot of good people with lucario and i just get ***** on recovery more then other characters with recoverying

 

[JJ259]

You can basically go instantly from a wall cling to a forward jump and then lead into a move that will knock the person guarding you and let you recover.

 

[TrevynThOt]

yeah attack them while they are edge hoggin you with invinsablity most likely and you swing at them while they have the advantage air dodging from wall clinging sounds like a betetr option then attacking I mean this is brawl btw lol

 

[Milln]

"I've played alot of good people with lucario and i just get ***** on recovery more then other characters with recoverying"

If you deem your opponents "good" and you're getting demolished on your recovery, then you're just not doing it right. How can you not see that it's great DESPITE everyone else's? It seems like your only complaint is that you're not invincible. Okay, neither is anyone else. Problem solved.

Lucario can go IMMEDIATELY from cling to jump, there is no time for your opponent to react on your wall cling.. Even if they do go to try to hit you, you have your aerials that will keep them away until you can get back to the stage.

 

[JJ259]

if they are edge hogging you are almost always able to either:

a) jump right past them and get back on the stage with no lag
b) either bair or nair them and by doing so spiking them off the stage into the abyss.

it's not hard, test it. I would post a video but i don't have a capture card.

Edit: this is assuming you are wall clinging, didn't mention that and it might have been confused with jumping back to the stage.

 

[TrevynThOt]

no you got me wrong man my problem isn't that I'm not invincible it's just that your recovery doesn't have any hit points like everyone elses problem NOT solved
i deem my oponets good because DSF has won every west coast tourny out here so far so yeah my oponets are good I'm really not tryin to brag or anythin I'm just stating something to you guys that you are overly protecting cause you are in love with your main character lol.
and how can your oponet not react to watching you going straight at the wall obviously going to wall cling? i don't understand that

 

[JJ259]

As far as I know, any player that has a decent amount of knowledge probably won't go for you if you wall cling (assuming they don't have multi jumps) because by trying to attack you they will not only have to possibly waste their jump but for some characters the pure time it takes to do an aerial will almost certainly lead do their death. Even if they do manage to get down there, you can so quickly go from a cling to a jump back to the stage that it doesn't even matter if they go for you. All you have to do is nair as you come out of the cling and you'll hit them. If you don't think that will work, just air dodge. Just to clarify, you do know that there are two types of wall jumps right? The one that you get by pressing up (which will kill you because it sends you straight up) and the one you get by pressing forward (which will basically wrap you around the ledge and back to the stage.

 

[TrevynThOt]

wasting their jump not really you would knoew what your doin when you go for a kill attack liek they are trying to do, and at the same time if they see you clinging they can easyly as well tap on and be standing waiting for you to wall jump over the stage and be waiting with a easy advantage attack what I'm saying is they have the advantage the whole time while you recovering, any knowledgable player knows when you have the advantage to attack why wouldn't they if they see you clinging time to do their aerial leading to their deaths what moves are you doing? everyones so floaty any move almost can be performed, besides the obviously hour long in the air taking moves. hell even ike can forward air with ike at the area lucario will cling at and he would make it back.
plus on most neutral stages using the cling is useless cause it doesn't work on most of those stages ya know making it only useful on like 2 stages so the up B recovery is the obvious most used recovery for most situations and that alone isn't that good compared to all other characters

 

[Milln]

Wow. You're being really stubborn and disregarding everything we say with "Well lawl but this..."

I'm done trying to persuade you. If you don't like his recovery and you think it's flawed, refusing to understand how it works, then Lucario isn't for you. You'll need to choose a different main until you start listening.

 

[JJ259]

The way I see it, lucario's recovery is definitely above average. His uB goes a long way and he has great jumps which can move him both vertically and horizontally quite a distance. His one recovery flaw, that his uB does no damage is a problem but is avoidable on many stages.

Overall, his recovery is no where near as bad as you are saying, it does have some flaws but nothing that brings it to the point of horrible.

 

[NekoBoy085]

Just wanted to comment if you get pushed down to the bottom of final destination with lucario and you have no second jump you are pretty screwed easily aren't you? Since curving uses the same range it would be rather difficult or impossible to go from bottom of FD to the wall under it. Such cases sweet spotting works wonders for all characters but unlike everyone else, invincible frames on edge hogging isn't the only problem.

And what's with his extreme speed having no invincible frames even. When I was trying to use it as a counter tactic I ate an Ike FSmash mid flight. Yeah I like trying new things

 

[Milln]

Eating Fsmashes? O rly.... *goes to test*

Also, you can curve out from the bottom of Final Destination and stick to the wall. It's easy once you get the positioning and curve angle proper. I do it all day. =o

 

[JJ259]

I tried to do it in the fight we just had....dang wifi =(

 

[NekoBoy085]

Eating Fsmashes? O rly.... *goes to test*

Also, you can curve out from the bottom of Final Destination and stick to the wall. It's easy once you get the positioning and curve angle proper. I do it all day. =o

Ate meaning I took a Death Smash to the face

 

[Milln]

Oh. Well lawlalwalwalwlawl. I thought you meant ate as in he was all like "om nom nom" and wasn't affected by it. XD

I tried to do it in the fight we just had... dang wifi

Yeah. I was supposed to immediately jump off of the wall, too, but it registered late and you got me with that dair. =x That was nice, though. Didn't expect it. XD

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lucario doesn't fall very fast, which helps it recover more easily. Just keep note that its Extremespeed can't damage anyone.

 

[Sheik_Pwns]

aww why yall being harsh on the noob

 

[G-Beast]

all i need to say is L2P. but extremespeed... is an excellent recovery move! sure.. it dosent hit or even flinch, but again, the wall sticking you can pull off with it coupled with Lucario's redonkulously huge wall jumps feeds the aforementioned mind games... wall kicking into bair or uair or if you think that is terrible as well, just extremespeed onto the edge of the stage to get back on... easy as that. how cannot understand this... i do not know

 

[TrevynThOt]

how can i not understand, well apparently playing against good people don't matter for results of certain situations and understanding how to rate things wow. you say i won't listen to your opinions on how it's good but i feel I keep providing proper evidence that proves your theoryz wrong. yaw won't listen to that either but thats fine don't expect yaw to til yaw play someone good and there aren't that many good players in brawl yet so it might take awhile

 

[BlackenFire]

how can i not understand, well apparently playing against good people don't matter for results of certain situations and understanding how to rate things wow. you say i won't listen to your opinions on how it's good but i feel I keep providing proper evidence that proves your theoryz wrong. yaw won't listen to that either but thats fine don't expect yaw to til yaw play someone good and there aren't that many good players in brawl yet so it might take awhile

After reading all of this, I just want to point out that even for the internet, your grammar makes my eyes bleed worse than sticking glass in them..

Anyway you provide evidence of why Lucario's Up+B is bad, yet they are only minor flaws in comparison to all the good things you can do from it. For example, let's say your playing on Final Destination and you get spiked under the stage but stop yourself with your second jump and your opponent jumps down and grabs the ledge since he knows you can't hurt him. What would be your option? Why ExtremeSpeed to the wall under FD or die a bad death while attempting to ExtremeSpeed to the ledge right?

You ES to the wall, then immediately tap forward and jump off, sonext thing you know your right by the guy on the ledge, you can probably go above him, land on the stage and live. You could jump forward, hover above him on the ledge considering his invincibility frames are gone and Down+Air him and he gets spiked to the abyss and you either land on the stage or take over the edge, your choice.

For what you have been saying, since his Up+B has no attack, it sucks PLUS it has no invincibility frames. Sure thats a bad thing but you can curve it in any direction you want with exception of the immediate opposite, and wall clinging is definitely a big bonus for saving you. You said any good player would smack you as you came up the stage or when your on the wall right? Well any good Lucario player would not stay on the wall and would attack or use mindgames to outwit his edge-guarding opponent.

Oh yeah, I forgot, while recovering from wall cling or even if they are ledge-hogging, there isalways the footstool jumping, especially on FD from the wall. Now coupled with your responses on how it lacks compared to everyone elses, why can't you understand that it is different from those and it great in it's own way?

 

[CaliburChamp]

Lucario's side B also gives him a bit of a push back when he uses it away from the stage, helping his recovery a bit more. And so does Aura sphere, used away from the stage.
And not only that but Lucario D-air can stop his momentum when he is struck by a heavy blow., making him survive longer, which is necessary since Lucario needs that high % to increase his aura's power. Lucario has a better than average recovery.

 

[nightSN]

you can always wavebounce back to the stage and then use ^b for wall cling or to get back on the floor

 

[TrevynThOt]

After reading all of this, I just want to point out that even for the internet, your grammar makes my eyes bleed worse than sticking glass in them..

Anyway you provide evidence of why Lucario's Up+B is bad, yet they are only minor flaws in comparison to all the good things you can do from it. For example, let's say your playing on Final Destination and you get spiked under the stage but stop yourself with your second jump and your opponent jumps down and grabs the ledge since he knows you can't hurt him. What would be your option? Why ExtremeSpeed to the wall under FD or die a bad death while attempting to ExtremeSpeed to the ledge right?

You ES to the wall, then immediately tap forward and jump off, sonext thing you know your right by the guy on the ledge, you can probably go above him, land on the stage and live. You could jump forward, hover above him on the ledge considering his invincibility frames are gone and Down+Air him and he gets spiked to the abyss and you either land on the stage or take over the edge, your choice.

For what you have been saying, since his Up+B has no attack, it sucks PLUS it has no invincibility frames. Sure thats a bad thing but you can curve it in any direction you want with exception of the immediate opposite, and wall clinging is definitely a big bonus for saving you. You said any good player would smack you as you came up the stage or when your on the wall right? Well any good Lucario player would not stay on the wall and would attack or use mindgames to outwit his edge-guarding opponent.

Oh yeah, I forgot, while recovering from wall cling or even if they are ledge-hogging, there isalways the footstool jumping, especially on FD from the wall. Now coupled with your responses on how it lacks compared to everyone elses, why can't you understand that it is different from those and it great in it's own way?

well no **** i wouldn't hang on the edge i'd jump after but if i see a lucario curvin to the wall my only guess can possibly be he's going to wall cling so my easy options are to tap on wait for you to peak your head over the edge and smack you, so the most common use would be to air dodge back on that does seem useful, but if i don't tap on i can easyly fall off with fox falco wolf jiggs link marth sheik zelda need i really go on explaining how every character can do a pretty quick attack and hit you. you mnetioning mindgames as if it's a move you can perform sounds so lame anyone with decent fighitng game experience knows that. and yeah it's different and great in it's own way so is ganons up tilt -_-. i love how I have to repeat myself a thousand times cause peoples eyes are bleeding so bad that they can't read anymore wow.

calibur champ the forward B for recovering seems cool i'll have to try that out more

 

[Moosecalibur]

well no **** i wouldn't hang on the edge i'd jump after but if i see a lucario curvin to the wall my only guess can possibly be he's going to wall cling so my easy options are to tap on wait for you to peak your head over the edge and smack you, so the most common use would be to air dodge back on that does seem useful, but if i don't tap on i can easyly fall off with fox falco wolf jiggs link marth sheik zelda need i really go on explaining how every character can do a pretty quick attack and hit you. you mnetioning mindgames as if it's a move you can perform sounds so lame anyone with decent fighitng game experience knows that. and yeah it's different and great in it's own way so is ganons up tilt -_-. i love how I have to repeat myself a thousand times cause peoples eyes are bleeding so bad that they can't read anymore wow.

calibur champ the forward B for recovering seems cool i'll have to try that out more

You think that you're disproving them don't you......

well, this is the ignorance that will get you nowhere. You say that most "good" fighters will expect a wall cling when you fight them.......but also most"good" players won't take the risk of jumping off the stage due to the fact that:
1) Lucario could just jump over the edge and preform and of his airs (and could spike with dair)
2) he mainly has priority over most other airs with his airs, not to mention the fact that his airs come out very quickly and his nair makes his body a hitbox
3) did you ever think of footstool jumping? when lucario wall jumps, he can jump high, low, or in-between, and studying and practicing this distance will allow you to put you in the perfect to footstool jump, spiking your opponent and giving you that jump that you lost due to clinging
4) if you do the same thing every time, your opponent will catch on as you said, but there are 4 different options to choose from from the wall (3 jumps and footstool), so change it up and mess with your opponent
5)If you practice your recovery, then you can avoid gimping, edge guarding, edge hodding, footstool jumping, kirbyciding, Wall of Paining, etc.

So stop complaining, being ignorant, and repeating yourself, and go and work on your recovery so that you don't get beat instead of complaining how it's not perfect, because let me break your heart but No Move In The Game Is Perfect! (oh my God, such a startle to some, I know)

Either that, or just stop using Lucario altogether because you're too lazy to try and work with what you got

Coming from a Jigglypuff player who's character got nerfed, you have less to complain about anyways, be thankful for what you have and use it past its full potential, because I'm tired of people thinking they're so cool by trashing moves because they don't know how to use them and are to lazy, ignorant, and foolish to try to learn how to!

 

[~Shin~]

The problems I have with Lucarios Recover are.

I get hit sometimes when I recover, but its my own fault.

Utalizing Aurdodging, and shadowballs off the edge helps me get back to the stage better. I've also gone to every stage to practice WHERE I can wall-cling, and the best ways to get up. I've had some VERY fun times edge-playing with other characters. And I know I have a GREAT recovery.

Keep trying, and keep practicing, I know you'll get there.

 

[Trapt497]

I am personally of the opinion that Lucario's recovery is actually very good. First off, trevyn, an up B does not necessarily need to be an attack as you assume. I dont need to repeat past lucario fans' comments because I agree with most of them. But overall, his up B can go in any direction and curve, Lucario can wall-grab, and aura spheres are definetly helpful if you are worried about a spike or edge-guard. And plus, you can edge-cancel (which definetly looks like it can take some time to master). I'm not sure if that is the official name for it, but there is a youtube video. Just practice and come up with some good strategies.

Oh, and Shin, your sig is freakin sweet!!

 

[Jacob the JesusFreak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNu63d15KjU&feature=related

watch the whole video if you like but the main part for you to watch would be at 1:25 that is why lucario owns

 

[Hyprodimus Prime]

Thats crazy at 1:33, how does he go from practically vertical to wall cling?

 

[Nodrak]

You can curve the extremespeed, as long as when you hit the wall, you're at a 180 degree angle it doesnt matter how you start. Just curve the ES

 

[tedward2000]

What I see what your complaining about is, Lucario's upB doesnt do damage nor does it have invincibility.
Complaining about it not having those attributes will not magically cause Lucario's upB to cause damage or make him invincible. If your having problems recovering, train to recover better, or just train to be not easily put in a situation where a upB recovery is needed.
For someone clamming to be better then most people posting on this board, you don't sound to confident in your skills.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Why are we recovering from under the stage anyway? Lucario rarely ever gets hit down there, his air time is so good. I rarely find the need to recover with extremespeed in most cases unless I've been edgeguarding the opponent.

You know that when you walljump, you can also immediately air dodge, right?

Now look at it this way: a lot of clever opponents will try to edgeguard Lucario by just hanging on the ledge, knowing that it will force him to recover onto the stage. If the Lucario player goes onto the stage, they'll usually jump up and try to hit with a Fair or something. So you know that the worst kind of damage you'll take from recovering in this manner is a Fair, and a lot of characters don't have overly impressive KO moves for Fairs. At least they can't hit you off the ledge this way, you'll be sent flying back onto the stage.

Now that's the worst case scenario. Let's say that the opponent is ledgeclinging there and the Lucario player decides to recover with a wall jump. As soon as Lucario sticks to the wall, the opponent decides to drop and use a Dair to hit him off...

Oh wait, Lucario immediately jumps and air dodges, causing the aerial to miss. Congradulations, you are now miles under the stage and possibly a victim for footstool jumps or ledgehogging yourself! Most characters can't use an aerial attacks that far down without SDing anyway.

You could try to predict Lucario and wait for him to wall jump up onto the ledge, but say he decides to attack instead. The invincibility frames on the ledge cling don't last all that long. If you don't take action immediately, you'll either be hit or Lucario will grab the ledge, and all that work will have been for nothing.

You're missing the TRUE weakness of Lucario's recovery, which is the startup time of extremespeed.

An aggressive edgeguarder can usually jump right out and hit Lucario before he's even started his recovery move. Of course, Lucario has Fair to get people away from him in these situations, but it's still a problem.

Lucario's recovery isn't great. It's about average in my books. My idea of a good recovery is Lucas and his Zap jump PSI hover madness. He can safely make it back on the stage most of the time without even trying too hard. Same goes for ROB.