Data Luigi Match-up Discussion Thread

[JBones]

Anyone have any advice for a Yoshi that has a hard time landing against Luigi? I keep getting usmashed nearly every time.

 

[FUEGO!]

Read his attempt and stall in air with your Egg throw, and di in a backwards fashion to juke them out.

 

[The_Pizza_Guy]

same here here, any advice for the matchup against yoshi? it seems so hard to get close to him and her moves are really safe, at least a good secondary to counterpick against him? , thanks.

 

[Yonder]

Yoshi is still my #1 most hated character to fight. I hate being skimpy on matchup details but well...I kind of am. Basically Yoshi's mobility causes Luigi trouble while his eggs can trade with fireballs basically [fireballs go straight, Yoshi's at an angle] One plus is that jab to up b is extremely effective against Yoshi [Source...have yet to not land it against one, and it won me a game vs BC's best Yoshi]. Other than jab to up B, it will be a hard and straining battle to get a kill. Yoshi will probably be super armoring your bair offstage the damn dinosaur. So go crazy with smashes. Also the new patch increasing shieldstun make make Yoshi's dair much more potent that it already was. It is universal to all characters Yoshi fights, but beware of it.

Overall, 55-45 Yoshi probably. I would have said 60-40 but Jab to Up B is so effective here it redeems d throw to cyclone. I've never won this match yet at a high level...but it's come extremely close. So I think the ratio is fair.

If anyone has a good secondary against him please say...none of mine seem to fit the bill. I don't think Luigi really needs one, though.

 

[TriTails]

I suppose I need to restart the MU discussion now, given on how Luigi was drastically changed.

First one was TL. Who's the second one?

 

[The_Pizza_Guy]

Yoshi is still my #1 most hated character to fight. I hate being skimpy on matchup details but well...I kind of am. Basically Yoshi's mobility causes Luigi trouble while his eggs can trade with fireballs basically [fireballs go straight, Yoshi's at an angle] One plus is that jab to up b is extremely effective against Yoshi [Source...have yet to not land it against one, and it won me a game vs BC's best Yoshi]. Other than jab to up B, it will be a hard and straining battle to get a kill. Yoshi will probably be super armoring your bair offstage the damn dinosaur. So go crazy with smashes. Also the new patch increasing shieldstun make make Yoshi's dair much more potent that it already was. It is universal to all characters Yoshi fights, but beware of it.

I agree on the hate for yoshi LOL, and i agree on almost any point you make about the matchup, but if theres one thing that i believe makes the matchup so dificult is landing with a floaty character like luigi without being juggled over and over, eventually youre being forced to grab the edges and we know its not a safe part for luigi especially for his recovery, oh and those damn eggs, power shielding is vital in this MU.

 

[MonkeyArms]

So uh yeah Ganon kind of destroys Luigi now.

 

[hey_there]

So uh yeah Ganon kind of destroys Luigi now.

No he doesn't. Luigi doesn't need cyclone KOs for this to still be a winning match up for him. Here's how the match up looked at high level in 1.1.0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ThMp3mesY8

I know we're in a new patch, but almost everything is still applicable in 1.1.1.

 

[TriTails]

So... Sheik REALLY destroys us now. We still combo her back and forth but needles and effing F-AIR now are safer on shield. Nothing significant happened in this MU aside from us now having trouble killing. SHFFAC F-air is so damn fast we can't even go for an U-smash (And F-air out-ranges Marth's F-air). Getting a grab at 100-140% is now mostly useless aside from juggling opportunities (Forget gimping Sheik). U-throw don't kill until late percents and we need to be on the edge of the stage for a B-throw.

Like, wtf. All we needed was a redistribution if our design was horrible, but they just straight punched Luigi in the face while indirectly buffing ZSS, Ryu, and Pikachu (ZSS' and Ryu's N-airs are ridiculous on shield now) and... took like 1% (Read: 0.75%) off Sheik's F-air for the third time and still leaving needles and F-air AC window untouched.

And wow. Greninja, LM, and Mega Man MUs also got worse.

*cries in a corner*

I suppose we'll just have to pull through I guess... But I'm just gonna make this clear: Luigi did not get the Diddy treatment. Diddy got nerfed in like a broken aerial (Which, while it WAS his main move, it was not the only one thing that make him good) but still kept his mobility, bananas, and F-air. Luigi got nerfed in like an important throw, which was very vital for competitive play, while having *** mobility and range.

What. I don't care if we have one of the best buttons in the game or combo ability. We can't get in for **** against campy top tiers. Diddy can. That's the difference. I'm not saying Luigi is done for, but he's taken quite a hit, that's for sure.

Will still main him tho. Hopefully, this change can direct our attention more to some of our other moves.

 

[Vhaltz]

I usually stick around to play with the rare high level played that's better than me to get better, but after losing 3 times against this charizard and taking only one stock off of him I couldn't think of any way to challenge him and left.

This guy really knew the matchup as described here. He would beat out both my ground and aerial approaches with jab, beat out fireballs with flamethrower/flare blitz and would pressure with well spaced short hop fairs and fullhop nairs. His range didn't allow me to roll behind him and he wasn't outright spamming jab so I couldn't punish endlag either. If I tried to jump over he'd hit me with upsmash or nair. I admittedly didn't try jumping over too often because it seemed like a terrible approach.

Once I lost neutral a couple of times and eventually had to recover, he didn't edgeguard often but covered my getup options by using flamethrower or by using several ftilts which covered getup attack, roll-getup and clank with fireball allowing him to just use it again. Should I just jump getup in that scenario? Or does ftilt spam still allow Zard to cover jump with fly or upsmash upon reaction?

I just need some advice in general help with appraching and getting back on stage against Charizards that know the matchup so that I'm better prepared next time.

 

[Enjeru Karasu]

As a Yoshi main, I can give you all advice on the Yoshi match up. I did use to main Luigi, so I'd like to see you all do well. First off, I'll go into how to deal with the egg tossing. It's important to note that the frequency and how they use the eggs does depend on the stage sometimes. A Yoshi is more likely to Zone you out and fire more eggs on a flat stage like final destination, while they'll go for more precision shots on stages with platforms. They will still use it a lot, but Yoshi's in general tend to use it less on platform stages.

As for dealing with the egg toss itself, it is one of the best moves in Yoshi's Arsenal, and the one that all Yoshi players will definitely use. Of course you can deal with it like any other projectile, but there are a couple other things to keep in mind. First of all is that there are certain ranges Yoshi prefers using the egg. It's an approach option and a good way to zone out opponents if they have to. Trying to get into mid range of a Yoshi and trying to set the pace like that is a good idea. Yoshi's typically like being in one of two places in the neutral game: either pressing an offense on you at close range, or long range zoning. Mid range is a position Yoshi players don't want to be in. It means that their opponent is close enough to punish an egg throw if they shield, and it's too far away to get close in personal. Getting in that range and then getting in there on your terms is a good way to get momentum against a Yoshi.

Keep in mind that they will use the egg for approaching in the air as well, and as a way to get you into combos. The pieces of advice I have for that is just to master your dodging, DI, and general defense techs to deal with it. If you're in the air, you can break the eggs with physical attacks if you time it right. Eggs are breakable, unlike most non-item projectiles in the game.

As for getting back on the ground as Luigi, there are several options available. correctly timed air dodges, Proper DIs, and evasion in general are all viable options. You can also use your aerial options to help you get to the ground more safely. Down b, neutral a, etc are all good cover options if used properly. Most of Luigi's aerials are faster then Yoshi's, so use that to your advantage.

Finally, I'm going to let you all in on a little secret that can often be overlooked. Yoshi's second jump isn't a true super armor move. The technical term for it is Heavy Armor, which is basically Super Armor that can be broken. Yoshi's form of Heavy Armor is knockback based, which mean it doesn't work if a move's knockback power is strong enough. So the more damage Yoshi takes, the weaker that armor gets. There's an example of it in this video. It lists all armored moves and categorizes each one. It's a good idea to be able to distinguish between each type, so that you can take that into account against certain match ups.

 

[FullMoon]

Hello once more green missiles, the Greninja boards has started another MU discussion session and we're opening up with you guys.

Click here to venture into the ninja pond

 

[G. Stache]

Hey, this thread is a bit dead, but I have a question about how to deal with Ness...so a bump it is then.

How do you guys handle Ness. Out of everyone, he has to be the 2nd trickiest MU for me (only below Toon Link). His PK fires are rather annoying at times and PK thunder stage spiking will quite literally be the death of me. Him having the best kill throw in the game isn't exactly making this MU fun either. Anyone have advice (namely how to get him off stage for an edge guard)?

 

[MonkeyArms]

Hey, this thread is a bit dead, but I have a question about how to deal with Ness...so a bump it is then.

How do you guys handle Ness. Out of everyone, he has to be the 2nd trickiest MU for me (only below Toon Link). His PK fires are rather annoying at times and PK thunder stage spiking will quite literally be the death of me. Him having the best kill throw in the game isn't exactly making this MU fun either. Anyone have advice (namely how to get him off stage for an edge guard)?

If ness uses PK fire its as simple as perfect shield and punish. Not that hard TBH. Getting Ness offstage can be a bit tough, but its usually as simple as a throw or throw combo. Also, if he does get offstage, one cyclone spike and he's just done. (Note to self: Tech with L when cyclone spiking) Back air is also pretty good way to get him off stage, as well as well, any normally used SHFF aerial TBH. If Ness grabs you at low percents, DI back. It ruins most of his grab combo game which is good. Down throw fair to up air is better than down throw double fair since he can combo break. Back throw is something you really just have to read the Ness doing TBH.

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar sub-forum is now discussing the Luigi matchup. Any input is appreciated!

 

[sims796]

I'm glad the Olimar player posted, this forum is pretty dead. When are we gonna start doing the match-ups? It seems vital we get on that soon, seeing as we gotta basically start fresh.

 

[G. Stache]

Right, well, I probably need permission and a bit of free time. But if we need a person to take this thread to new places then I can definitely stand up to the plate. If things go as planned, expect changes soon.

 

[G. Stache]

Ahem, well. It took longer than expected, but the MU threads have finally got a new owner: Me. With permission from the previous MU leader, consider this thread fully operational. I decided on using this thread instead of the specific MU thread for a two reasons. A) people from different boards like to come to this board and ask for assistance for their characters MU's against Luigi anyways, and B) this thread is already pinned, so less work for everyone. So as I leave this short message to update everyone on what's going on, let it be said that everyone is heavily encouraged to join in on the discussion. Tomorrow I hope to discuss Ryu, Sonic, and another character of some sort. I'm hoping that everyone will contribute in helping out with this thread, it'd be great to see the Luigi Meta standing on both two feet again. Until then

 

[G. Stache]

Alright folks, I'm sorry to keep you waiting (Sundays are always pretty busy as it's basically Smash/Football Sunday). Some rules before we get started:
1. Obviously no rude comments about other characters or the opinions of others. I'm sure everyone has a reason for their opinion, whether it be misguided or not. If you find an opinion to be uninformed then call them out in the most polite way possible.

2. If you don't have much (good) info about the character, then don't feel pressured to contribute. We want honest advice and data, not speculation and theory. It'd be nice if everyone contributed (hell it would warm my big green heart). But if you're uninformed, I urge you to simply just onlook. This also helps everyone do their job and follow rule #1.

3. Yes, this patch was a rather huge setback for Luigi, but I feel as if we're just using no killing confirms as a scapegoat with some MU's. To better explain this, I've heard that some discussions go like this in the Wario boards: 'Well, this character walls Wario in so many places...but waft is a thing! 70-30 Wario's favor!'. Obviously an over exaggeration, but I feel as if we're doing the opposite with certain MU's. That being said, our MU's in general did tank, and people like Tink and possibly Ness probably now beat us. But let's be reasonable. For instance, no saying 'Well...we have no kill confirms...so 90 - 10 Sheik's favor!' I'm sure we're all reasonable people and we can definitely follow this rule.

4. Obviously I probably forgot to mention some of the things. So if a problem becomes serious enough, congrats! A new rule #4!

Now that that's over with, I've decided on a couple people I've wanted to discuss the MU about:

The Blue Blur and the Wandering Warrior . I've decided that just two MU's would be fine this round. I've heard a lot of fluctuating opinions about these two. And since they're pretty important MU's at the moment it'd be a good idea to get them out of the way. Righto, then. I'll see if I can get the other character boards to join in and give any good tidbits of knowledge. In the meantime, go ahead and discuss

 

[jaimex2]

I love this matchup.

Luigi can wall Sonic's spins out quite well with fireballs. Half our approaches are shutdown by them.

Your jabs out priorities ours so if you ever clank at close range jab away.

Sonics homeing attack is basically a free up smash for you.

I dont recommend trying to gimp Sonic when he is springing up. There's not much you can do to that recovery and you risk getting hit by the spring which can leave you in a pretty bad position.

 

[TriTails]

Sonic can simply dash after he's hit by the Fireballs. He can punish Fireball's end lag this way in mid-range. This thing works before the Fireball end lag nerf. I would only recommend using Fireballs when he's charging Spin Dash/Charge. Else he can body block it and slam our face.

Everytime we are U-throw'd, we have to be careful to not fall prey into Sonic's U-air. Thankfully, Sonic's landing isn't good (Like Luigi's). As long as he doesn't spring up high and D-air without landing lag, we can usually punish his landing. However, unless you are nearby, try to not punish the lagless D-air land. He can F-tilt you that way.

Sonic in general is hard to gimp. Half of the time he's using Spring Jump he is invincible. Although, if he try to protect himself with aerials below the ledge then that can actually mean he is gimping hismelf as aerials don't snap to ledges.

Sonic's playsytle basically centers around trickery. His dash is extremely fast (Falcon's doesn't even compare) along with decent dash grab and dash attack. Homing Attack, while seemingly like a punishable move, the frame it starts can be altered and it moves very fast as well.

Campy Sonic could be a problem given on how he can just play like he does in his games (Runnin' around 'till they're exposed). I rarely ecounter this kind of play, so I can't give much, except be patient.

...It's been so long since I summarized a MU lol. This isn't even a summary, just a pile of my thoughts. Any inputs to the MU would be appreciated.

 

[Underhill]

Sonic's spindash approaches can get shut down by Luigi's n-air, fireballs, tornado, and f-air(maybe) so he'll have to play mindgames & bait approaches if he wants to get in safely and get his damage without playing up close and getting grabbed. Sonic is faster than you so play patient and don't run in, blindly. If you get the lead and a stock ahead, he has to approach you while you can sit there and wait and play patiently. That's if you're playing against a campy Sonic who wants to run away and play with spindash and expect you to approach. Remember, he doesn't have a projectile and his approaches aren't good like your.

Spring can help him get away certain combos, but if he overuses it and you read and catch the landing, then you can punish him with anything you want. Sonic's up-airs can't be challenge since they're disjointed so don't try to n-air out of it especially if you're up top of the screen. His pressure game can be threating, but so as your if you seal the deal by being up to his face and play the close game with combos, grabs, and baiting out his options along with mindgames of your own. Because of Luigi's up smash having a invincible frame hitbox which is the head, Homing attack(punishable move, but fast at the same time) can get beaten out of along with his aerials and even spindash if timed correctly. While Luigi is floaty and can have a hard time landing against the speedy hedgehog, Sonic's landing options aren't good outside of spindash and d-air which he needs certain height for no landing lag to land safely. Luigi does better at killing along his combo game, but Sonic does better at edgeguarding with the spring, f-air and b-air which are something to watch out for. Plus, ledge guarding which are f-smash, f-tile, and d-smash and ledge trumps, too. If you can mix up your recovery and make it back, safely while avoiding his ledge punish with mix ups, then you'll be ok. Sonic can mix up his recovery with spindash as long as he has his second jump so keep that in mind, but for his recovery if he's going low, there's a few ways that I can think of since he has invincible frames at the start of his spring. One, use ledge punish moves such as down-tile, forward smash, and down-smash to punish the first frames before he touches the ledge if you can. two, use the ledge trump to back-air and if he grabs the ledge twice and you're in good position, there's your chance for a ledge punish so give him no mercy. three, if he go really low with the spring and by the time invincible frames are gone, then you can either back-air stage spike or tornado him down so he can't make it back to the ledge. Just read his options and be patient when he's off stage and don't be reckless trying to gimp him and you'll be good to go to edgeguard his recovery. By the way, your back-air wins against Sonic's aerials and maybe spindash if timed correctly.

This match-up, I would say even or Luigi has a slighty advantage on Sonic because Sonic's approaches aren't good outside of spindash(if with his superior dash speed) which can get shut down by Luigi's strong moves like n-air, tornado, up-smash(if timed), and fireballs if he gets predictable. Plus, his close combat game is better than Sonic's along with killing while Sonic's only has a few and the rest are less safe than Luigi's.

 

[sims796]

I'm never one to talk about match-ups, period, as I simply lack the experience that everyone else has, and would rather sit quietly and learn. Still, I'll like to give my two cents.

I never felt disadvantaged fighting Ryu, though I don't fight too many good Ryus (Ryu? Ryie?). I think that Luigi has an initial advantage, regardless. Ryu's easy to combo, his stronger attacks leaves him open when used unwisely, our Fireballs beats his Hadouken (suck it poster boy), and if we're really feeling like a ****, we can crawl under the damn things.

Also, we stole his thunder as the king of Shoryukens, so we automatically win in style.

 

[G. Stache]

Good stuff, guys. Glad to see that we're discussing MU's again. I'll go urge the Ryu boards to maybe come and speak about the MU. In the meantime, if any of you have any experiences against Ryu and you feel as if they're worthwhile, please do share.

 

[Vhaltz]

I've only played a couple of matches against a Ryu who heavily outmatched me, but I feel like Luigi is likely to have big trouble with Ryu's aerial focus attack mixups, just because his only two multihit options (dash attack and cyclone) are both way too unsafe to throw out regularly. Sometimes you'll be able to beat it by just hitting it twice due to Luigi's crazy good frame data on his aerials, but good Ryus will either release the attack at an earlier stage to stuff your second aerial or dash out of it.

Outside of that one guy I've never really had much trouble against Ryu, but most Ryu's I've run into don't use focus attack very optimally and I feel like that's the key point when it comes to dealing with Luigi as Ryu.

 

[TriTails]

I fought a Ryu once, and I am sure we were at similiar skill levels. We played three times before he switched to Marh (Which both of us disconnected, but oh well~). He won game one but I won the next two games.

I can say that Ryu's D-air is scary. It combos into TSRK, and is untechable on the ground. Do your best to shield. No need to punish him if you don't feel like you can make in time. Also, watch out for light U-tilt and D-tilt strings, they also combo into TSRK. Also, jab. It also can setup to a Shoryuken IIRC.

Ryu's B-air is probably so far the scariest aerial he has outside for D-air. It comes out quick and deal hefty 16%. This also probably goes without saying, but don't try to punish N-airs or B-air. They are very safe on shield, especially ours.

Ryu's N-air deal... 8% for clean hit and 4.5% for the late, so it should not get as much respect, right? No. The thing combos into a lot of stuffs, and that can take you to like 30 - 40% from what I have heard. DON'T. UNDERESTIMATE. IT.

Focus Attack, eh. I have U-air'd it once on the aerial version and I just shot straight through him. But that aside, this gives Ryu basically an airdash. Watch out for landing mixups. The fully charged version is unblockable, so don't try it.

Don't shield fiery Hadokens. If you can, Fireball it. It will clank it out.

Off-stage, he's quite vulnerable. Respect Tatsumaki a little bit though. Shoryuken goes fast, but I'm sure we can interrupt it. Tornado gimps probably would do wonders here.

We can struggle to kill him tho... he has plethora of kill setups and apparently his Shoryuken is nearly as strong as ours (We definitely still beat him in power but his is much much much less laggier). His moves demand great deal of respect (His F-air is 1 frame faster than ours and deals 12%) as whilist he also has little range, so do us. We have to gain momentum very carefully or else we'll be smashed in the face. His attacks aren't Ganon-tier of power but they are probably close.

Summoning @Emblem Lord because the guy plays Ryu and I would like his hindsight on the MUs, as good Ryus ain't common.

 

[Yonder]

Good to see discussion again, I think if we're going to do specific matchups again, we should take the collaborated information at the end of whatever period discussion stops and compile it at Tritails specific matchup thread http://smashboards.com/threads/luig...on-thread-week-4-villager-and-pikachu.408390/

I know this thread has a matchup chart at the 1st post to, but it's a bit outdated more or less [Samus is no longer 65:35 Luigi's favor...although I have myself to blame for that one, that number was mostly influenced from me near the beginning. Whoops]

 

[Vhaltz]

A mario main recently destroyed 9B's Ryu in a japanese tournament. A lot of people probably already heard about it but the cool thing is he used Luigi for game 1 of the second set.

It does look like Ryu has some trouble with Luigi's aerial spam except for bair. Fullhop bair to punish landings doesn't seem like a good idea against Ryu but other than that it doesn't look like lacking multihits is as much of a problem as I had previously thought.

 

[G. Stache]

Well, no Ryus seem to want to come, and the Sonic discussion was pretty good, I'd say. It'd be best to keep the discussion going, so if nobody has anything else to say I think today or so we'll discuss two or three new characters. Not much reason going on for a week if nobody has something to say. One more thing, I'm not too sure how confident I am giving out the numerical ratios. So instead, we could vote as a community if that sounds good to you guys

 

[Ndzablou]

I'll give my opinions on the and MU as soon as I can, just need to collect some data first.

 

[G. Stache]

I'll give my opinions on the and MU as soon as I can, just need to collect some data first.

You got it, take all the time you need. Extra input is greatly appreciated.

 

[miniada]

50:50
fireballs ruin sonics approach with spindash and he doesn't have any good approach options out of that. Sonic can juggle us with spindash. Edgeguarding it's pretty even. Down b can be a good mix up and sonics recovery leaves him open. Sonic can use spring and fsmash against missile and up b.
luigi wins in terms of killing. Fsmash, d smash,up smash, up b(you need to get a read) are all good for Killing sonic. Not to mention luigis attacks do more damage. Sonic's up air kill combo is hard to challenge since up air is disjointed so using NAIR can be hard. Luigi ruins sonics landing due to the fact that up smash has an invencible hit box.
that's all I know.

 

[G. Stache]

Right, well, I'd love to move on. If any of you want to put in any advice about Ryu or Sonic then that's fine. But more discussion would be nice, so we're going to press forth.

The next two characters I've had in mind were a yellow duo of and. I'll (hopefully) get the other character boards. In the meantime, go ahead and discuss. (Also, do any of you want to debate from now on about who to discuss? I'd definitely be willing to do that, since I'm sure that we all have different characters we want to discuss.)

 

[Sari]

I'm not the best Wario but I'll share what I think about the vs matchup.

Pros:
+ Can rack up damage slightly better than Wario thanks to d-throw and quick aerials (such as n-air)
+ A few of his ground attacks (such as all of his smash attacks) are quicker than Wario's
+ Has a good neutral game thanks to better reaching aerials and fireballs
+ Tornado is decent for edgeguarding a Wario recovering from below, since it'll knock him off his bike and most likely stage spike him

Cons:
- Worse mobility on the ground due to being slippery
- Air speed pales in comparison to Wario's (if this is correct, Wario has the 5th best air speed in the game while Luigi has the 2nd worst)
- The above points make it very hard to approach Wario, who can just run away and let his waft charge
- Can be edgeguarded fairly easily (tornado and non-misfire green missile have decent amounts of endlag, which can be punished thanks to Wario's great recovery)
- Can't really wait inside your shield for a grab since Wario literally eats through shields
- Bike can ride through fireballs


Up close, Luigi can prove to be a fair challenge for Wario. However, Wario's mobility/charing waft allows him to punish Luigi better and run away whenever he wants. Patch 1.1.1 - while creating new ways to rack up damage via d-throw - got rid of a few of Luigi's kill setups such as d-throw -> cyclone and d-throw -> up-b. This is bad since Wario himself has a tough time killing outside of waft, so I think their ability in actually getting a kill is now even as opposed to being in slightly in Luigi's favor. All in all I think Wario now has a very slightly better time at dealing with Luigi than before.

I think it's 55:45 in 's favor. If not that possibly 50:50.

 

[Underhill]

Right, well, I'd love to move on. If any of you want to put in any advice about Ryu or Sonic then that's fine. But more discussion would be nice, so we're going to press forth.

The next two characters I've had in mind were a yellow duo of and. I'll (hopefully) get the other character boards. In the meantime, go ahead and discuss. (Also, do any of you want to debate from now on about who to discuss? I'd definitely be willing to do that, since I'm sure that we all have different characters we want to discuss.)

I'll give my input on and when I get home from work.

Even though Luigi got his down throw nerf and the shield stun coming to place, he still wins the mu against Pikachu, but only by 55:45 or 58:42 because he can still give Pikachu trouble.

Shield stun patch can help Pikachu pressure Luigi shield and make it hard for him to punish out of shield due to very low traction. Your n-air will help combo break so he doesn't extend which he has to be careful on, but don't overuse it though. As you approach, you want to trot, fireball, use pivot movement like grabs, and SH aerials to get in while avoiding jolts, QAs, his trots, grabs, and his aerials. Also, watch out for his d-tile as well because he can use it to out-space you with. When you grab him at low percents, you want to mix up your combos with up throw and down throw so you'll get good damage and play with his mind. N-air and thunder is something to watch out for if he tries to combo break. Pikachu's mobility is superior along with traction, but his range is low along with your so he can't out-space you much, but with d-tile.
Pikachu's juggling game is better because he's fast on foot and has QA to catch Luigi since he's floaty and doesn't have good air speed so try to land safely and mix up options with tornado and n-air without being too predictable with them. While Luigi's not as fast as Pikachu on the ground, his up-smash is a threat because it beats out Pikachu's areials and QAs so he can't afford trades especially if he's at high percent to get koed or try to land on Luigi. Plus, throw in baits & mindgames or other mix ups like tornado grabs, and fireballs to catch landings or make him commit into throwing the wrong move for you to punish. Back-air also wins against Pikachu's aerials and even jolts. Combo game, Luigi wins because his combos are still strong along with his damage output and having a combo breaker is a plus. Grabs are something that Luigi wins by since he can use them for combos more than Pikachu and has a kill throw that kills at 140%-150% or higher since Pikachu's don't kill until later at 200%, I believe. Your up-b kills Pikachu at 64% or higher and you only use it if you power shield his back-air or he makes a mistake like skull bash for example. Pikachu won't let it you approach him for free with jolts, tiles, and spaced f-airs and other aerials along with his mobility so mix up your approaches, power shield his stuff, use fireballs to get in or force a mistake, and be patient while being aggressive and delivering pressure. While Pikachu can pressure you with QA and his movement, you can also do it back to him with your grabs, fireballs, jabs, set-ups, aerials, and pivot movement so read his options and put fear in him. Edgeguarding is where Pikachu wins at because his recovery is good while Luigi's linear. You don't want to get thrown off stage because Pikachu won't let you get back for free and will try to make you use jumps and tornado with jolts, off-stage thunder, aerials, covering your ledge options, and ledge punishes like down-smash, forward-smash, and down-tile so be careful and mix up your recovery as best you can. If you can do the tornado without jump, then it may help you along the way for recovering and maybe, gimping him too or forcing him in a bad position, but be mindful of thunder though. Killing is where Luigi shines at because Pikachu is light and your kill options can hurt, especially with rage since their fast, strong, and safe to even get a early kill while Pikachu has to work more and play safe too.

 

[MonkeyArms]

- Worse mobility on the ground due to being slippery.

Actually, no.
The only time when this actually doesn't help is when Luigi is hit in shield. At high level play, Luigi doesn't keep running unless he's commiting to an approach or a short hop retreat (usually fireball). Otherwise, Luigi uses fox trots/Extended dash dancing. He has one of the best fox trots in the game.

The slide of luigi lets you get reliable charged reversed up smashes, pivot grabs, down smash approaches, and so on.

 

[TriTails]

This is a tricky MU. Wario will want to camp the **** out of us, as he loses in CQC. His running away ability is strong with 3rd best airspeed, and Waft provides dangerous threat. I do NOT recommend using Fireballs a lot. He'll train over ya. He'll really train over ya with Bike. The entirety of this MU depends on how well Wario runs away and how well Luigi can read his next movement. Waft is simply very strong on stage and murders us off-stage.

Patient is key. Don't make overzealous commitments. Run to shield is not recommended, he'll just jump and Chomp you. Speaking of Chomp, that thing has lulzy hitbox. Don't challenge it with close range attacks up front, EVER. Wario can afford to run away the entire match due to the inherent threat of Waft, so stay on the ground for the most mobile terrain you can use to read him.

Combos, we combo him well, but killing him is kinda a problem. We can't really kill him with HooHahNado and he is basically impossible to gimp. He also has trouble killing too though, outside of Waft, so it's kinda even.

I'll write more tommorow when it's not 10PM over here.

 

[PokeMarioRevolution]

Hello, I'm a Wario main crossing over from the Wario Boards. I've met some pretty tough Luigi players and I think Wario has the slight upper-hand. Wario's Bike rides through fireballs and can be mixed up with the bite and led into some aerial combos. Wario has the better approach options in this matchup.

 

[Yonder]

You're doing a great job getting discussion happening G Stache!

I think we just have to gather this info into one thread so people don't have to search through pages.

TriTails , still updating your thread? I think Sonic is ready to go over there. Ryu...maybe, not a lot of discussion about him though.

 

[G. Stache]

Hello, I'm a Wario main crossing over from the Wario Boards. I've met some pretty tough Luigi players and I think Wario has the slight upper-hand. Wario's Bike rides through fireballs and can be mixed up with the bite and led into some aerial combos. Wario has the better approach options in this matchup.

This is good info, don't get me wrong. It's very important to note that Wario has the better neutral, as that makes up the majority of smash 4 competitive play. But what else does Wario have that beats Luigi? For instance: Wario has one of the best airspeeds in the game. That helps him play a very defensive game has he can essentially play a hit and run (or in this case an aerial and retreat) game. Also, as combos are Luigi's best thing in his arsenal: does Wario have any move that shakes Luigi off? I'm not trying to call you out (if I was giving that impression), and what you said was good and really important in this MU. But further sharing would be great, since you're the expert on Wario here.

Anyways, just something small I should mention now that I have everyone's attention: if you have Wario's bike use it to your utmost advantage. In a much less subtle way of sharing: for the love of all things holy, throw it up! Not only does it take away a good chunk of Wario's neutral for the longest time possible, but we can combo from his bike if we hit him with it. For instance: I was playing a Wario the other day and at one point, I got a hold of his bike. This Wario was panicking from my guess, because he dashed in and tried to dash attack. By this time I've had thrown it up, gotten into shield (because Wario's ground speed is rather sub par) and blocked his dash attack. The motorcycle came crashing down onto him, and he was at a perfect height and angle for cyclone. This was a very specific position to be in, but my point is this: if you have a chance to grab Wario's bike, throwing it up takes away a chunk of his neutral for a bit. This makes approaching easier for Luigi. And when it comes to approaching, Luigi could use all the help he can get.