Interesting, I always struggle against him. yeah the rosa MU is annoying af just because its so hard to get in on her and get grab combos. my plan is usually to take out luma and then go in. My main problem with rosa is getting back from the ledge or stage and being to aggressive and get hit by either her or luma
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Social Luigi's Social Mansion
- Thread starter Xiivi
- Start date
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
Hey guys! I FINALLY got my first significant local win today/yesterday/tonight. I have won several weeklies and more casual tournies, but nothing of this scale until now.
I beat Cheezeballer (ranked 1st in the state), and Yosh (ranked somewhere around 5th in the state), in a 60+ man bracket. Cheezeballer is actually one of the best Donkey Kongs (which, presumably, is a matchup luigi loses) so that's a nice achievement for me. I feel like this is a good sign and one that will lead to much better performances in the future, as I've been struggling a bit to get top 3 locally for the past few months until Smash Down a couple of weeks ago and today.
I played some Doc in earlier matches, which made them a bit harder for me actually. While Doc is a good character, the struggle is real in some matchups. I'd advise that any Luigi main does not though out a secondary/pocket doc unless put against rosalina, toon link, or villager. Doc consists of most of the same bad matchups as Luigi, but these are a few he can definitely help in.
@FUEGO!
Y Yonder
(I don't feel like anyone saw this)
I beat Cheezeballer (ranked 1st in the state), and Yosh (ranked somewhere around 5th in the state), in a 60+ man bracket. Cheezeballer is actually one of the best Donkey Kongs (which, presumably, is a matchup luigi loses) so that's a nice achievement for me. I feel like this is a good sign and one that will lead to much better performances in the future, as I've been struggling a bit to get top 3 locally for the past few months until Smash Down a couple of weeks ago and today.
I played some Doc in earlier matches, which made them a bit harder for me actually. While Doc is a good character, the struggle is real in some matchups. I'd advise that any Luigi main does not though out a secondary/pocket doc unless put against rosalina, toon link, or villager. Doc consists of most of the same bad matchups as Luigi, but these are a few he can definitely help in.
@FUEGO!
Y Yonder
(I don't feel like anyone saw this)
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dash shield, I rarely get hit by a pk fire spammer
Sadly no one liked top tier luigi so it would be hard but I'm all for
So question if you could how would you buff luigi how would you do it? The thing is you can't change him back to though. Me this might Sound crazy but make up throw a kill throw, make cyclone a damage rack like if you get all the hits it does 30% and sends horizontal but should have large scaling so it can't be spammed and probably less endlag on fire ball. But how would you change him?
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I would be happy with more range on his up b, less lag on fireball and some sort of guaranteed kill setup - i guess thats asking alot lol
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
I'd rather not go back to grab happy Luigi again.
That was dumb.
That was dumb.
But we're still focused on grabs its not like we have any other combo starters the only time I'm not looking for a grab is when it's time to kill but then I'm still looking for an up throw so I can catch their landing with up smash
Pyr
Smash Lord
Soft hit of nair is basically Down-Throw with less knockback, up-air leads into up-air things, Fair leads into fair things at low percents (including nair sexyness), b-reversed spaced fireballs lead into whatever you want, uptilt is shenanigans, Down-Smash/Up-Smash > bair/grab/utilt/etc at low %s.
Jab > 50/50s, otherwise known as Jab 2 is the most godly thing Luigi has and if they press a button, ANY button, when hit by it, they die if at 40-60%.
But no. Luigi only has grabs into combos/things. /s
I mean... How can you say we don't have other combo starters? Soft Nair > utilt/up-air (or utilt > upair depending on rage and matchup) > Bair is 30ish and free on most the cast. Fair > Nair leads into a 50/50 or someone who just jumped and is now above Luigi without their double jump. Down-Smash > anything at low percents on faster fallers is a thing. And there is so much more.
As for killing you've got the 50/50 from D-Throw that kills based on what they decided to do. You've got Bair that kills well and can be done in reaction to an airdodge. You've got reverse hit of D-Smash that kills hilariously early. You've got Nair that kills at 140% and Up-Throw kills outright at 160. B-Throw kills decently early near the ledge. And that's assuming you somehow didn't get an early gimp, Up-B punish, F-Throw > Dair cheese. Why would you fish for an Up-Smash on Landing with one of the slowest Ground/Air characters in the game?
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I know all those things but how easy is to get those things compared to grab . Thanks for the info I didn't know down smash killed early never really tried it. Can you tell me when sis reverse down smash is the best option. Also up smash isn't that hard to land and kills way earlier than some of things that's why. The thing is I never use luigi on big stages most of the time so it's easier. But you probably know betty than me so I'll try these things out.
Pyr
Smash Lord
Jab is frame 2 and punishes basically everything, so leading into Jab 2 for mixups isn't too bad. Nair is a Frame 8 OOS option, can beat/punish a ton of things (soft hit), and is all-around good when done retreating. Fair-poking leads to fair things and U-Air is our safest thing on shield if we don't auto-cancel. PP utilt is frame 5 and can be used as a mini anti-air and can be used out of nair, grab, etc. List goes on and on. Even D-tilt has it's uses for the general combo game.
B-Reverse Fireball is a means to an end, but always applicable and something every Luigi should learn to do, along with Wavebounce FB.
Reverse D-Smash can be read into, or can punish a bunch of things on reaction if you can PP into it. It's the most situational, but, if you can F-Smash, you can likely hit the back hit of D-Smash.
Don't get me wrong: Grab is still godlike. I just don't want people to think it's Luigi's Meta because, if people who think it is don't develop, we lose to... Well, all DLC because zoning hurts really bad.
Also Jab 2 > D-Smash is frame 6 kills-off-the-top sexyness.
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Pyr
Smash Lord
Ya... Buffer hurts us here. Takes a bit of getting used to. Buffer Shield to see the proper frame 1 timing.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
If you do it right, it should be unpunishable when the spacing is correct, with a few key exceptions.
So what combos do you use, what does the most damage. Me at Zero or low I go for dthrow-upsmash-regrab- double fair- regrab and (still trying to do consistently) up air bait. The only problem if have is what part of up air guarantees bair.
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Pyr
Smash Lord
If it's not guaranteed, and better not-guaranteed options exist, you shouldn't be doing it to be honest. Besides, D-Throw > option (matchup dependent, D-Smash/Upsmash, Fair > Nair, Fair > falling up-air, Fair > Nair, Fair > Fair, Uptilt once, uptilt > jab 1+2 into mixup) > regrab > Luigi things will always net more damage, better stage control, and is guaranteed (save for the jab mixup of course). By Luigi things...
Tornado only does 9%ish total and completely ends your pressure game because it kicks up and it is a definitive combo ender. You can only really continue it if you make them fall out of it before the final hit, but there are more consistent options.
For example: you can use soft-bair > fireball instead to keep the pressure game going/get a jab reset if they miss the tech. Additionally, if it does hit, you deal 6%, so your damage is roughly the same.
Also, fireball traps with F-Throw instead (F-Throw > run forward > fireball buffer), or F-Throw > Dair near the edge, or even the same + footstool at certain percentage ranges, would be better because, if they do not jump in any of those instances, they get re-grabbed, spiked, or outright killed. And, when you have something that threatening to someone... Enjoy your free conditioning of an opponent.
There are so many good guaranteed options that you can take besides that one. Even the not-guaranteed stuff I mentioned above in my little tangent are better because they lead to more
Edit: Since F-Throw near the edge is, by far, my favorite setup...
Dair works (and leads into footstools/dair for kills), but falling off with Down-B gimps is fast enough to catch the jump option. Catch that and they just die. If they have a recovery that actually gets them back (aka not too many characters) after they lose the jump, jump > dair, or just dair, either trades and spikes, or outright spikes. In either case, you can still recover.
- (Fair > Fair > Regrab/Utilt)
- (Fair > Falling Updair > regrab/utilt)
- (fair > nair (hard) > react to their option (aka every single frame 3 nair used here, so shield))
- (reverse up-air > hard bair)
Tornado only does 9%ish total and completely ends your pressure game because it kicks up and it is a definitive combo ender. You can only really continue it if you make them fall out of it before the final hit, but there are more consistent options.
For example: you can use soft-bair > fireball instead to keep the pressure game going/get a jab reset if they miss the tech. Additionally, if it does hit, you deal 6%, so your damage is roughly the same.
Also, fireball traps with F-Throw instead (F-Throw > run forward > fireball buffer), or F-Throw > Dair near the edge, or even the same + footstool at certain percentage ranges, would be better because, if they do not jump in any of those instances, they get re-grabbed, spiked, or outright killed. And, when you have something that threatening to someone... Enjoy your free conditioning of an opponent.
There are so many good guaranteed options that you can take besides that one. Even the not-guaranteed stuff I mentioned above in my little tangent are better because they lead to more
Edit: Since F-Throw near the edge is, by far, my favorite setup...
Dair works (and leads into footstools/dair for kills), but falling off with Down-B gimps is fast enough to catch the jump option. Catch that and they just die. If they have a recovery that actually gets them back (aka not too many characters) after they lose the jump, jump > dair, or just dair, either trades and spikes, or outright spikes. In either case, you can still recover.
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Pyr
Smash Lord
Sent via PM brah.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
Up Smash is normally a better option than up tilt, because its much safer and has more range. You should NEVER be doing up tilt after down throw, that just plops the opponent right in your face when you could've gotten that garenteed 21 percent and stage control off a simple up smash.
Pyr
Smash Lord
I know. I was more referring to either very specific things (super-lights like Jigs) or after the initial D-Smash/Up-Smash/Whatever used to regrab.
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
So, **** controller schemes do my fellow Luigi players like to use? I'm basically using the GC remote with Y as grab, no tap jump, and c stick as attack (new to this, still getting used to it.) Of course when doing D throw combos now with tilt stick, I tend to do a rising nair instead of a dair. Gotta work on that.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
I wouldn't recommend changing your c-stick to tilt. Any situation you need a tilt you don't really need the c-stick to do it and pivot tilts aren't the best options with Luigi. You're just making it harder on yourself to do much needed options such as down throw to up smash, tilted forward smashes, pivot smashes (trust me, this can be mixed up much more with a c-stick do to a much larger time frame) and easy flicks down for a quick down smash. You're basically just making it harder on yourself.
Plus, why would you change c-stick options for aerial options? They're identical unless you set the c-stick to special.
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Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
I changed because of the apparent momentum loss on aerials unless you use c stick for attack, so I've been hearing. So far, making that change has helped all my other characters strafe better with retreating aerials (especially Marth). But for Luigi...eh, I haven't gotten a lot of success from it (or Rob). Luigi's airspeed is so slow the retreating aerials are almost negated.
So yeah, you recommend changing it back to smash for Luigi? I feel better keeping it on attack for everyone else but Luigi. Do you notice momentum loss in the air using control stick and a for aerials?
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
Lol you don't have to set the c-stick to attack to do aerial moves with it. It doesn't even matter. Smash works the exact same in the air as with attack when its assigned to c-stick. Robin's aerials might be an exception.
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Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
I know you can do aerials with control and a, but there is momentum loss using control and a as opposed to c stick being attack. So retreating aerials and chains are harder with control and a as opposed to control stick on attack. Hence why I made the change for most characters.
But I'm beginning to feel some benefit from c stick on smash more like Rob, Luigi, and Robin.
In the end it's all preference but im slowly adapting to c stick on attack for more aerial momentum
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
Yonder, turn on Smash Bros for wii u, go into your controls, set your c-stick to smash attack, go into a game, and use the c stick while your in the air. An aerial comes out, your c-stick wasn't set to attack, and you didn't use the control stick and the a button.
Ya derp.
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Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
You're missing the point on what I'm saying.
I know that an aerial comes out regardless of if the c stick is on smash or attack
The problem is when you do an aerial with the c stick on smash, you go no where, you stay in one place. You have no momentum at all which is bad. This is due to a glitch in the game in which c sticking aerials while it is set to smash results in staying in place with an aerial, which is virtually a huge hinderance.
With the control stick and a, you get some momentum, but lose it while doing an aerial in the air, which kind of sucks.
So what I'm trying to do now is make c stick attack for aerials because you keep all of your momentum, thus improving your approach and ability to retreat with aerials. A massive plus for Marth and his fair. Maybe for Luigi and his fair but it's not a great spacer so that's why I may keep him on c stick for smash because his low air speed mitigates the momentum he gets anyways and his tilts suck bar u tilt.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
That glitch only happens when the c-stick is held, thus, making a flick of the c-stick have basically the exact same result.
You might lose like 1 pixel of momentum, but honestly, what difference does it make?
Yonder
Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
I decided to keep Luigi to c stick smash because he doesn't really benefit from tilt stick dus to poor range, aerial mobility, and poor tilts.
Everyone else I have on c stick attack. Boy having two control schemes to put into future tournaments will piss some people off...ah well.
Anyways, what are some of your favorite Luigi kill set ups? Besides the obvious U smash, I like jab to up b and f throw off stage to dair or cyclone spike. Of course, the latter two are character dependent. D smash always just keep them on the edge of the screen it feels...I use f smash for falling opponents u tilted in the air trying to land. Bair is probably my 2nd go to behind u smash that isnt situational.
I just want to explore more kill options. Sometimes killing with Luigi reliably is a bit frustrating.
Everyone else I have on c stick attack. Boy having two control schemes to put into future tournaments will piss some people off...ah well.
Anyways, what are some of your favorite Luigi kill set ups? Besides the obvious U smash, I like jab to up b and f throw off stage to dair or cyclone spike. Of course, the latter two are character dependent. D smash always just keep them on the edge of the screen it feels...I use f smash for falling opponents u tilted in the air trying to land. Bair is probably my 2nd go to behind u smash that isnt situational.
I just want to explore more kill options. Sometimes killing with Luigi reliably is a bit frustrating.
MonkeyArms
Smash Ace
Sometimes you can down throw cyclone with the correct rage and percent. I try going for it but it only works about a 20th of the time.
Double Jab to down smash is good if you have large spacing on your jabs
Jab on shield to up smash can sometimes work as a bait for you opponent to do something oos.
Back air is amazing with stage control.
If you can force your opponent to fall out of cyclone in just enough hitstun to where they will hit the ground in it, you can read a tech or getup option.
Up throw on the top platforms of battlefield and dreamland around 150 can work on lighter characters
Comboing into jab jab up b can suprise your opponent for a kill, same goes with spaced double jab up b.
If your opponent likes to hold ledge, try and snag their vulnerability with down taunt.
G. Stache
Smash Journeyman
Just a few things you could try:
Bair and Dair are underrated edgeguarding tools if cyclone isn't very useful for the character offstage (I know that Dairing DK is a lot easier than cyclone gimping in that MU).
Weak Nair can set up into potential KOs if you can hit it (for instance: it can lead into Cyclone against light floaty characters). Fireballs are also useful for setting up traps for U smash.
Also, learn the general timings on when to ledge trump. You see ConCon fish for it all the time with little to no risk. Ledge Trump into Bair is a solid way to end an opponents stock starting at around 110% (no rage). You just have to do reads on par with that of Sheiks old d throw 50/50 reads.
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