-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Marth Changes in new Patch
- Thread starter Illuminado
- Start date
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
I'm very sorry to double post but I have to because this is important and can't be bunded with my thing up top^ where people won't be notified of my edit.
I decided to analyze every single one of Marth's animations since we found out about some IASA changes.
You know how grounded Dancing Blade 1 is super laggy? Well listen to this. I have a 3DS with 1.0.3 (before the Wii U version came out / before the first balance patch), so I don't know if this changed in 1.0.4 or 1.0.6 but I watched the animation in 1/4 speed between the two versions while holding
and watching the position of Marth's sword right when he shields probably 100 times now. Marth shields earlier in the animation, I'd say anywhere between 2-4 frames earlier than on 1.0.3. And to double check, I spammed DB1 in 1.0.6/7 over and over till I had perfect timing on the earliest frame to input the next one. I moved over to 1.0.3 immediately and my perfect timing was too soon where Marth would either DB2 or do nothing after the first DB1 I try. I had to slow myself down to get subsequent DB1s in 1.0.3.
All of Marth other IASAs except the jabs and ftilt are the same, including other dancing blade attacks. And yes, even DB1 aerial is the same.
Can someone with recording equipment (@
Shaya
) please get the exact numbers on DB1? We also need to find out if this was a 1.0.4 change or a 1.0.6 change (jabs and Ftilt was 1.0.6) so we need someone with access to 1.0.4 (called 1.0.2 on the Wii U version).
I decided to analyze every single one of Marth's animations since we found out about some IASA changes.
You know how grounded Dancing Blade 1 is super laggy? Well listen to this. I have a 3DS with 1.0.3 (before the Wii U version came out / before the first balance patch), so I don't know if this changed in 1.0.4 or 1.0.6 but I watched the animation in 1/4 speed between the two versions while holding
and watching the position of Marth's sword right when he shields probably 100 times now. Marth shields earlier in the animation, I'd say anywhere between 2-4 frames earlier than on 1.0.3. And to double check, I spammed DB1 in 1.0.6/7 over and over till I had perfect timing on the earliest frame to input the next one. I moved over to 1.0.3 immediately and my perfect timing was too soon where Marth would either DB2 or do nothing after the first DB1 I try. I had to slow myself down to get subsequent DB1s in 1.0.3.All of Marth other IASAs except the jabs and ftilt are the same, including other dancing blade attacks. And yes, even DB1 aerial is the same.
Can someone with recording equipment (@
Shaya
) please get the exact numbers on DB1? We also need to find out if this was a 1.0.4 change or a 1.0.6 change (jabs and Ftilt was 1.0.6) so we need someone with access to 1.0.4 (called 1.0.2 on the Wii U version).
Last edited:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Dancing Blade is 1.5 to 2 frames faster start up and 3 frames faster cool down.
I think the modifier on dancing blade (which is 2.0) on the start up may have been reduced to 1.5
I think the modifier on dancing blade (which is 2.0) on the start up may have been reduced to 1.5
Last edited:
Xisin
Smash Ace
back to its 4 frame glory? ive been using it like it's there again lol not sure if it is. it was 7 frame ya? or 6? i forget.
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Does this mean aerial DB1 comes out on frame 5.5 as well? And was I correct that it's still ends on 33?
Aero never even knew aerial db had a different end lag, it could still be 33, or it could be 30/31 now
Also while this isn't conclusive, I still think forward air got an auto cancel buff (I noted this really early).
-actually never mind- I definitely need recording equipment for this, I could be wrong.
Also while this isn't conclusive, I still think forward air got an auto cancel buff (I noted this really early).
-actually never mind- I definitely need recording equipment for this, I could be wrong.
Last edited:
Langston777
Smash Apprentice
lmao i didn't know fair autocanceled. i always just suspected it looked like it did since the recovery frames ended before short hop ended
pretty cool that my fairs seem a bit scarier now that i try fast falling them at the right time, this'll be good for walling out the puffballs
pretty cool that my fairs seem a bit scarier now that i try fast falling them at the right time, this'll be good for walling out the puffballs
You can't have a hitbox on frame 5.5, frame 5.5 doesn't exist.
Frame are just a concept the engine outputs for televisions. The game runs likely at 1/1000th of a second.
I can give you numerous examples you are free to test.
Shields come out in frame 1, but the shield "bubble" appears on frame 1.25. 1/4th mode will have a shield come out in "5 frames".
Marth's down tilt and up smashes in Brawl had minute animations that acted out in less than a single frame, through me toiling through 1/4th mode in Brawl I discovered both moves have 2/3rds of a frame dedicated to a jagged 'stab', because of this I realised Marth could use down tilt as an anti-air and successfully did so (showing people getting hit above the ground when freeze frames happened).
It's more likely it's a 1.666 modifier now rather than a 1.5 seeing as I doubt they'd want a move that will always come out before a 6 frame attack does. I thought 1.5 because I brainfarted the cool down reduction thinking "well it's 3 frames faster so it must be 1.5"
I can give you numerous examples you are free to test.
Shields come out in frame 1, but the shield "bubble" appears on frame 1.25. 1/4th mode will have a shield come out in "5 frames".
Marth's down tilt and up smashes in Brawl had minute animations that acted out in less than a single frame, through me toiling through 1/4th mode in Brawl I discovered both moves have 2/3rds of a frame dedicated to a jagged 'stab', because of this I realised Marth could use down tilt as an anti-air and successfully did so (showing people getting hit above the ground when freeze frames happened).
It's more likely it's a 1.666 modifier now rather than a 1.5 seeing as I doubt they'd want a move that will always come out before a 6 frame attack does. I thought 1.5 because I brainfarted the cool down reduction thinking "well it's 3 frames faster so it must be 1.5"
Last edited:
hhhhhno.
That's definitely not how it works.
That's definitely not how it works.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
Marth legitimate character or naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah?
Quickhero
Smash Ace
He always has been a legit character, at least in my eyes. :3
To your point, yes he's a lot better now. Small buffs but making his main spacing and comboing tools (minus f-air but it's still good enough right now and I can see why Sakurai wouldn't take risks with that) back to Brawl level just helps soooooo much. I seriously have to question why we didn't just test out 1.06 Marth with Brawl Marth and we could've discovered these buffs a lot sooner. x.x
He definitely is worth your time again, though. :3 (If you still don't want to play Marth that's fine, I'm just assuming you do lol) Honestly I'm content with default Marth, let alone the fact that Marth has Crescent Slash with custom moves on making Marth even better. I mentioned this after first impressions with new Marth, but I'll say it again because I can. :3 I feel like I'm playing the Hero King, just without crutches this time. :D
Last edited:
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
That move has super armor nevermind.
Last edited:
I can never get jab into anything showing up as a combo (not even into itself, lol), but jab into things is feeling a lot more real than before. Jab someone as they're landing and get a sweet sweet ftilt near the ledge that'll kill.
Quickhero
Smash Ace
I've been having a lot of success going jab to Dancing Blade. I have troubles getting f-tilt to combo, but I've only tried it with Charizard. Basically though a hit on a jab allows the opponent to either air-dodge or they don't. Either way you get hit by Dancing Blade so it's a combo I recommend. Grant it I'm a much worse player than you (since I lack local tournament experience
) so take my advice with a grain of salt. 
Illuminado
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 54
So to consolidate (and finally update the parent post) what are the definitive confirmed changes looking like at the moment?
Vipermoon
King Marth's most trusted advisor.
Shaya claim on DB1 faster start-up hasn't been proved yet. But jab, Ftilt, and DB1 have 3-4 frames less end lag. Everything else has actually been confirmed to be the same (except the mysterious DB changes to make it combo better).
If William says its still 7 frames then it's likely still 7 frames. Start ups aren't too hard to find though (once data comes), while ending frames are a bit harder to find usually, and we're lucky to have already found it.
Illuminado
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2015
- Messages
- 54
Must say, haven't tested it myself mainly because I felt the custom was so incredibly useless :D. The best thing is to wait for the data at this point man.Has anyone compared Heavy Blade before and after the patch? I already updated my 3DS for Mewtwo so I can't check myself
Xisin
Smash Ace
heavy blades isn't entirely useless: example: it actually 2 hit combos heavy character at early % for about 18%. And i almost want to say it can punish spot dodges, and maybe, just maybe use it vs fast fallers. I really want to try it out but I don't play much of greninja (still a dancing blade headache, no one else is.) outside of tournament bracket. if heavy blades get faster frame data on start up it'll be a good move in certain match ups.
Why it has a use: it gives us a fairly hard hit out of dash, it gives us a larger ranged aerial in the air than what we are used if going forward, also a good option if someone is shield broke and you can't space a horizontal kill option. Simply space yourself at half of a stage away and proceed to do the slowest dancing blades in your life as your opponent at first wonders what in the hell you are doing them finally realizes what you are doing when heavy blades kills them off the top at 40%.
This moves deserves some innovation, I'm just not sure how to implement is yet. If it started up say, 1-2 frames faster it'd be good.
Why it has a use: it gives us a fairly hard hit out of dash, it gives us a larger ranged aerial in the air than what we are used if going forward, also a good option if someone is shield broke and you can't space a horizontal kill option. Simply space yourself at half of a stage away and proceed to do the slowest dancing blades in your life as your opponent at first wonders what in the hell you are doing them finally realizes what you are doing when heavy blades kills them off the top at 40%.
This moves deserves some innovation, I'm just not sure how to implement is yet. If it started up say, 1-2 frames faster it'd be good.
Last edited:
On the topic of heavy blade - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es96epAulis
I put this together really quick and discovered the HB1->HB2 (up variation) is not punishable on block (second hit may need to be a tipper though). Rolling behind Marth, the smartest option, doesn't give frame advantage to the defender. Shields came out on the same frame.
Non tipper second hit might give 2-3 frames disadvantage, if they roll behind immediately without hesitation I should add.
I put this together really quick and discovered the HB1->HB2 (up variation) is not punishable on block (second hit may need to be a tipper though). Rolling behind Marth, the smartest option, doesn't give frame advantage to the defender. Shields came out on the same frame.
Non tipper second hit might give 2-3 frames disadvantage, if they roll behind immediately without hesitation I should add.
Last edited:
Airei
Smash Rookie
According to SmashWiki...
Jab hit 1 IASA: Frame 29 → Frame 26- Forward tilt IASA: Frame 39 → Frame 35
- Dancing Blade hit 1 IASA: Frame 45 → Frame 42
- Dancing Blade combos more consistently
