Match-Up Re-Discussion: Luigi

[Luigisama]

money match at BiB2 Yoshi vs. Luigi? =D

I actually encourage this. I want to see how this goes.

 

[Delta-cod]

hmm well not to put Delta on the spot or meat ride in any way, but when I had to play him at Ktar5 he smartly used eggs on me(not that it bothered me good stuff) and 3/5 times I tried my efforts to stop it I got some hits on him. In the U.S and in the EC of the U.S Delta is known to be a dangerous yoshi so I'm not the only one saying that he is really good. There are others who say so to.
Also yes I understand that not every yoshi is going to camp with eggs and that this strategy of mine will work 100% of the time. But it's just something that can be used on yoshi.

Yes, but the hits you got on me were insubstantial and didn't matter at all. I don't really care if you hit me with a Cyclone; it's not gonna do anything at all. If that's your only way in, then I don't really care, lol.

And to be honest, I only put in as much camp thinking as I need to in a match, and at the cost of sounding like a total ****, I didn't need to perform my highest level of camping when playing you. I was feeling very comfortable the whole time.

 

[Luigisama]

Yes, but the hits you got on me were insubstantial and didn't matter at all. I don't really care if you hit me with a Cyclone; it's not gonna do anything at all. If that's your only way in, then I don't really care, lol.

And to be honest, I only put in as much camp thinking as I need to in a match, and at the cost of sounding like a total ****, I didn't need to perform my highest level of camping when playing you. I was feeling very comfortable the whole time.

which is why I feel this match up is 55-45 in yoshi's favor.

 

[Delta-cod]

It can't only be 55-45 if your only way in is Cyclone, which knocks us away from you and lets us reset the camping.

 

[Luigisama]

It can't only be 55-45 if your only way in is Cyclone, which knocks us away from you and lets us reset the camping.

yes my way of getting in. I'm pretty sure there are better ways of getting in, but atm I don't know them.

Also to add more as to why I think the mu is 55-45 is because Luigi is one of those characters who needs to approach and can't really do much about the fact that Yoshi can di so well on almost of Luigi's kill moves. Although if Luigi does get inside he'll need to not only set up his kill moves right, but abuse yoshi's landing to get percentage on him and kill yoshi.

Now Yoshi on the other hand has a slight advantage in that he camp no problem in this mu. Yoshi can kill Luigi with upair, fsmash, and down b. The funny part about this is Luigi can will die around 120% to all of these moves. Maybe really good DI can help Luigi survive, but even then it just leaves him open to nair and upsmash kills since he'll have higher percentage after surviving a upair.

Lastly in this match up both characters can go aggro on each. The only thing is that Luigi or yoshi would have to be able to read their opponents moves to do this.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Theoretically this MU should be balls for Luigi, but i still think its close to even/slight yoshi.

 

[Luigisama]

missed this Luigi v.s yoshi vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdVGGglbqtE

 

[Boomer3d]

I think that yoshi has the advantage, I have a semi-local luigi I play against and I find it pretty easy to win. It is easy to camp and approach, as long as I don't try to dash grab. It's also easy to counter his approach just as long as long as we don't spot dodge and be wary of his tornado. I also find it beneficial to just jump offstage to dodge and throw eggs from there to get back and follow up. I'd say it is an easy 55:45.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Half year Bump.

After getting our ***** handed to us at APEX.
Let's revive this thread so we can learn how to deal with the Ghostcatching Brother.
And if anyone wants to, give me suggestions to paste into all the threads i've made or just ask Yink to have yourself put onto the OP if you'd rather be in charge of it.

 

[Yikarur]

I still don't get why so many of the Yoshis got ***** in that crew battle ~.~

 

[Sinister Slush]

Walking into the venue with **** being delivered to them mid-way into crew battles wasn't the best thing to see...

 

[Delta-cod]

We didn't all get ***** in the crew battle. Some of us just utterly dropped the ball and didn't approach the MU the right way.

When Luigi gets in, you need to reset. Too many people tried to get right back in his face, and subsequently got ***** for it.

 

[Sharky]

I was doing well but then I derped out =D

 

[Deleted member]

i dont think this matchup is bad for luigi TBH.
i cant say why, i think luigi is slow but once he gets to like mid-close range, he sort of has options because of fireballs and bair.

 

[Delta-cod]

Fireballs don't actually give him anything on us. We can just jab out of the stun and it ruins follow ups.

 

[Luigisama]

We didn't all get ***** in the crew battle. Some of us just utterly dropped the ball and didn't approach the MU the right way.

When Luigi gets in, you need to reset. Too many people tried to get right back in his face, and subsequently got ***** for it.

Very true. I still think Luigis got lucky.
- Don't ever let Luigi stay inside for too long. He'll combo yoshi and go for the kill.
- DON'T APPROACH LUIGI EVER.
- Yoshi should just camp Luigi with eggs, when luigi starts to approach Yoshi should counter his approaches with either pivot grab or upsmash since that's yoshi's anti aerial.
-When Luigi is at the edge just pressure him with eggs and when he is coming back to the stage by either Luigi missile remember that his missile HAS NO PRIORITY anything can go through it. You could also throw eggs in front of the Missile(Luigi's head) and stop him from reaching the stage. As for his Cyclone that can be tricking since it's a multi hit move, but at the end of his Cyclone there is a major amount of lag before he can do another move. This is where you can probably Fair spike or fsmash him.

EDIT
Fireballs aren't really bad or good in this mu. But constant fireball spam while yoshi is coming back to the stage could cause sudden gimps depending on how yoshi recovers. Also if the luigi is smart he can prevent stop yoshi's egg planking by timing his fireballs so they collide with yoshis.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont think Luigi should be trying to gimp Yoshi too often cuz our recovery is too safe, but if you DO try to, I would suggest baiting an Egg Toss and bair/fairing us back offstage. I doubt it'll work most of the time cuz we have 5 Up B jumps AND a huge Double jump with Armor on it, but its worth a shot. If you're good with his dair spike, I guess you could go for that, but trying to gimp with nair or uair should never work (we like recovering high), fireballs should be no problem for us, and dtaunt or dtilt spikes should never work cuz we can either recover stupid high, or auto snap the ledge from well underneath it with our down b cancel thing (what is it called again? lol).

 

[Yikarur]

I hate when people mention Yoshis DJ Super Armor for recovery.
it's soooo bad.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Not when his only option that should possibly be hitting us is his Fireballs, our armor eats those for breakfast. If he hits us offstage, it's either going to be a super nice read, an up b punish, or hitting us with fireballs.

 

[Luigisama]

True, but once again I stated how yoshi tries to recover. Also in any circumstance of Luigi gimping yoshi it will always happen during Yoshi's up b. A smart luigi should never challenge the super armor with any move besides grab. But even then that's risky.

 

[Exceladon City]

I didn't read Sama's write-up but if Yoshi's on the ledge throwing eggs, just stand about 2 Yoshis away and just deal with eggs. The worst that happens is you take like 15 if you don't shield eggs correctly. Luigi can stuff or trade with alot of Yoshi's ****. Last I checked, you don't want to trade with Luigi...ever.

 

[Luigisama]

just a reminder.
- Luigi dies early against Yoshi to moves like Up air, ground pound, and fsmash.
-Yoshi shouldn't be dying early against luigi. With good DI yoshi can survive a tilted fsmash from Luigi at 90%.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I dont think Luigi dies to early to Yoshi... probably just a pretty average range, not anything overly special. But I DO think Yoshi dies early against Luigi in comparison to other characters, but thats cuz Yoshi is usually living a REALLY long time (I dont know how many times Ive lived to over 200% in tournament). Against Luigi, good luck getting anywhere past 130% at best lol.

 

[Luigisama]

well not too early,but an up air from yoshi can kill luigi at 135% even with DI and he dies from ground pound at 140%

 

[Z'zgashi]

That's about the same percentage we kill most characters at lol. Outside of the obvious Snake, D3, etc, I dont often have my opponent living much longer after 150%.

 

[Yink]

Half year Bump.

After getting our ***** handed to us at APEX.
Let's revive this thread so we can learn how to deal with the Ghostcatching Brother.
And if anyone wants to, give me suggestions to paste into all the threads i've made or just ask Yink to have yourself put onto the OP if you'd rather be in charge of it.

I can change the OP to anyone, yeah. Good call, Slush.

 

[Yikarur]

Against Luigi, good luck getting anywhere past 130% at best lol.

how do you get killed by Luigi that you die below 130%?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nair, Up B, Fsmash, Bthrow, Usmash, Misfire (lol).

 

[Yikarur]

Nair kills at about 130% with DI and is NEVER fresh and ir's hard to hit with too (if the opponent doesn't directly jump into Luigi)
Fsmash and upB are to avoided, you shouldn't get hit by them more then once a set.
Bthrow doesn't kill until about 160% (150 on the ledge)

You should never die below 130%

 

[Z'zgashi]

I guess... That just feels low to me, I dont know why... :/

 

[Exceladon City]

Nair kills at about 130% with DI and is NEVER fresh and ir's hard to hit with too (if the opponent doesn't directly jump into Luigi)
Fsmash and upB are to avoided, you shouldn't get hit by them more then once a set.
Bthrow doesn't kill until about 160% (150 on the ledge)

You should never die below 130%

That kind of logic is what we'd like to avoid Yika.

UpFSmash WILL hit more than once a set. Nobody is gonna outright just run up and start Fsmashing like an idiot.

USmash and DSmash are viable kill moves. I don't know % though because I don't start looking to kill Yoshi's fat *** until around 120.

 

[Yikarur]

Fsmash wil kill more than once a set, but I meant hitting way below kill% (like dying from it at 90%)
I just said that you shouldn't die below 130%. If you die below 130% you can clearly say that you did a big mistake.

 

[Exceladon City]

Fsmash wil kill more than once a set, but I meant hitting way below kill% (like dying from it at 90%)
I just said that you shouldn't die below 130%. If you die below 130% you can clearly say that you did a big mistake.

I forget your English is kinda broken at times. FSmash shouldn't kill Yoshi at 90 unless you're like standing on a platform.

 

[Luigisama]

With Di Yoshi dies from Nair at 150%
With good Di Yoshi can survive a fresh Luigi bthrow around 168%
Upsmash is weird move for luigi, but it can kill Yoshi around 130%. By weird I think the head and stomach have different levels of knockback. The head having the most.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Good luck ever hitting Yoshi with the stomach of usmash, half our hurtbox is our nose and it's well above your stomach lol.

 

[Luigisama]

Good luck ever hitting Yoshi with the stomach of usmash, half our hurtbox is our nose and it's well above your stomach lol.

Luigi upsmash v.s Yoshi bair. up smash wins and most of the time his stomach hits.

EDIT
This the info that we have complied up for about this mu.

What you DON'T want to do in this particular match-up is leave yourself open to any attack by Luigi. His f-smash and up-B are dangerous, even if they have short range. Only use your f-smash if you are 100% positive that it would hit him. Yoshi Bomb is a bad idea if he can shield it correctly. Also, d-smash could be dangerous to use if he powershields. N-air is also dangerous if you don't sweet-spot his shield or if he spot-dodges.

So, the moves that will kill Luigi in this match-up are:

U-air: Always safe to use if you position yourself correctly. Also, none of his air moves out-prioritize this move, so don't be afraid of a counter-attack.

Up-smash: Works extremely well if you are on the ground and he is in the air. No move of Luigi can out-prioritize this move, so use it to punish any aerial he may throw at you. It is safe on block, so use this freely on the ground, too. Just make sure he doesn't powershield it.

D-air: More like a gimp move, but it can be used to counter Luigi's Cyclone if he uses it as a recovery.

Luigi has:

Better combos, defensive game, approach, and KO moves.

Luigi's U-tilt, N-air, and Jab combos have better setup value than most of Yoshi's stuff. N-air -> Up-smash is a pretty reasonable threat, along with Jab -> lots of nonsense.

Luigi slides away a lot when he shields, so good luck pressuring him easily. The usual shield pressure mindgames with Yoshi like his Jab don't bother Luigi that much since he can stay safe by shielding.

Yoshi can't easily punish Luigi for approaching since Luigi is in the air a lot when he approaches, and since you can't jump out of shield, and N-air punishes spotdodges a lot. If he does an approach on the ground, it is Tornado, and will probably be used to punish the lag of Egg Toss.

Yoshi has more range on most attacks, but doesn't have as good of a result with most of them. Luigi is much less laggy on most of his stuff, so he has more flexibility in terms of options.

As for KO moves...Yoshi can sometimes get a U-air or Up-smash on a Luigi that gets too reliant on N-air for dropping down. Luigi however can also get a KO through his combos into random nonsense or because his F-smash and U-smash are good anti-air KO moves.

Basically, Yoshi wants to keep Luigi out, but can't do this consistently, and when Luigi gets in, he has a significantly higher advantage.

eggs beat fireballs and cyclone, pivot grab beats everything luigi does (except fireballs, but luigi's fireballs don't do much in this matchup when you can just egg them) , hes in the air trying to wall bairs? pivot grab. He's coming in with a cyclone? pivot grab.

Uair beats or trades hits with his dair, bair beats or trades hits with his bair, our nair is similar, but has a bigger hitbox, we can usmash through every airial except dair (which is easy to pivot grab, they are falling on top of you... what do you expect them to do? Usmash beats cyclone too.

Luigi isn't heavy, he will be dieing earlier then us (unless we get fsmashed/up b'd, but up b only works from 2 inches away and fsmash doesn't have much more range...). Don't go after his side b, misfire happens more than you'd expect, uair and usmash will be stale, but luigi likes to get inside of you... just land a yoshi bomb when he rolls or something.

The only reason this matchup might not be in our advantage, is that one small mistake offstage will get you cycloned and take away your second jump costing you a stock. Offstage, just think of cyclone as mk's nado except it will gimp you instead of hitting you up. Stay away from it, DJAD through it, what ever. Just don't get hit by it.

just thought I'd point out that luigi can jab-dsmash us, or even jab-upB if we happen to DI up or don't block right away. So while it doesn't have so much range, if he hits something's gonna happen.

Luigi can get out camped by Yoshi and his eggs.
Luigi can counter Yoshi's bair with his upsmash because of the hit box on Luigi's stomach.
Yoshi is in up b kill percent starting at 60%. It is possible to kill yoshi around 45% to 55% but good Di can save him.
Luigi has to watch out for Yoshi's upair, down b, Yoshi with a well timed grab can catch Luigi during a misfire and Yoshi will not get hurt at least I remember he doesn't get hurt.

Luigi has a short cg on Yoshi with Fthrow. The way this works is if Luigi does fthrow and buffers a dash. The cg ends at 18%.
Luigi doesn't have a lot of kill moves on yoshi since Yoshi has really good DI. The only kill moves Luigi has is fsmash, up b, misfire, and nair. The only other kill move is up tilt and upsmash, but yoshi has to be at high percentage. Also forgot to mention that Yoshi's bair has shield poke so Luigi should tilt his shield up so that it doesn't hurt him.

Just DJ away from Luigi once he gets in. He's too slow to stay with us as we're leaving. He should be getting a couple of hits in at a time when we're at low percents, but beyond that, if you're seriously being ****ed up once he gets in, think about what you're doing..

This match-up is scary against a good Luigi player, but as long as you play safely you shouldn't have too much trouble. You're going to need to be very precise so that you don't get punished, though.

As everyone has said, you need to camp Luigi. Don't bother ever approaching unless you're not in the lead anymore. He's basically Dedede with more dangerous kill moves and a far less annoying grab since he's so slow and gets camped hard (he has his Cyclone, though, so that helps him quite a bit since it's so fast). You'll want to bait Luigi into unfavorable positions (like him being above you) to make it easy to punish his movements. Luigi will try the same to you by attempting to apply constant pressure, but as was said before if you find yourself in a bad position try double-jumping away to reposition yourself. Luigi really can't do much about characters whose air-speed match his own ground-speed.

So yeah, it's a problematic match-up when one of the least mobile characters is paired up against one of the most mobile. Mobility is the key to succeeding in this match-up. As long as you don't try to do anything stupid like dash-grabbing into Luigi from a neutral position (have fun getting up-B'ed), he really can't do much to you. I think Luigi's most reliable kill move in this match-up is his n-air, which can kill Yoshi around 145% if he keeps it fresh, I think.

Oh, one more thing. While recovering, Luigi's side-B can get beaten out by Yoshi's f-air. It takes really precise timing, though. Otherwise the f-air doesn't come out in time or they trade, and trading with Luigi is usually a bad thing, so only do it if you are sure you're going to net the kill.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol, I was saying that in a good way for you, I was saying good luck getting the weak hit cuz you're only going to get the strong one hahaha.

 

[Luigisama]

hmm not always, but thanks.