Matchup Rediscussion: Zelda vs Falco

[-Mars-]

Dude, me and SniperWorm have been very civil. And yet you post stuff like this.



When we base our experiences from other Zeldas as well. Too bad none of those Zeldas place in tournaments.



Who cares? Every competent player should care.

Beating someone on friendlies is not the same as beating someone in tournament sets.

I'm not being uncivil......I just honestly don't give a s*** if I somehow insulted the Hawaii community. What do you want me to do? Apologize?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

We got drama. Big Z 60 falho 40

 

[KayLo!]

So, about that ratio..........

EDIT: Heh, Legendary beat me to it. I don't agree with 60:40 Zelda, but since I don't have much experience in this matchup, I'm not going to contribute any numbers.

 

[MrEh]

What makes you qualified to discuss Zelda so much? About the same as me.

I've proven myself to be a competent player.

Matters little about tournament sets

You just said that tournament sets don't matter. lol

Ryoko would fare well at big time east coast tournaments........nobody doubts that.

Would he do well with Zelda? There's no way to prove it. Besides, he doesn't play anymore anyway. And even if he did, he doesn't use Zelda in tournaments. He uses Sheik iirc.

If I were to place in a ****ty *** tournament with Zelda what would that matter?

Sounds like you're implying that Hawaii tournaments are terrible. We're an isolated region, but we're not trash.

Zelda being a bad character has nothing to do with the Falco matchup once again.

Yes it does. Zelda is bad. Falco is good. Therefore, Zelda loses.

I'm not being uncivil......I just honestly don't give a s*** if I somehow insulted the Hawaii community.

When you insult a group of people and don't care about how we feel about it, then that's pretty messed up.

What do you want me to do? Apologize?

No. What I want you to do is go out and place in tournaments with 40+ people in them.

EDIT: Heh, Legendary beat me to it. I don't agree with 60:40 Zelda, but since I don't have much experience in this matchup, I'm not going to contribute any numbers.

Ratio is probably 40-60.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

We got drama. Big Z 60 falho 40

Sorry. I love Zelda, but, no. Cannot agree with that matchup ratio.

In practice, Falco is not going to go down that easily.

55:45 - 60:40 Falco's advantage.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Sorry. I love Zelda, but, no. Cannot agree with that matchup ratio.

In practice, Falco is not going to go down that easily.

55:45 - 60:40 Falco's advantage.

maybe not 60 40 but even if not zelda's favor i don't believe jab + silent lasers while in jab range should put the match in falco's favor. You shut down his phantosm you kill him a lot earlier than he kills you barring a spike. I really can't see anything that should give falco the edge.

 

[MrEh]

It's not in Zelda's favor. Falco punishes Zelda too hard, camps her too hard, and gimps her too hard.

And it doesn't matter if Zelda can kill him earlier. By that logic, Ganon should have an advantage on everyone, since he kills everyone at earlier percents then they kill him.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

maybe not 60 40 but even if not zelda's favor i don't believe jab + silent lasers while in jab range should put the match in falco's favor. You shut down his phantosm you kill him a lot earlier than he kills you barring a spike. I really can't see anything that should give falco the edge.

*falco sets up a tent*

 

[-Mars-]

I've proven myself to be a competent player.



You just said that tournament sets don't matter. lol



Would he do well with Zelda? There's no way to prove it. Besides, he doesn't play anymore anyway. And even if he did, he doesn't use Zelda in tournaments. He uses Sheik iirc.



Sounds like you're implying that Hawaii tournaments are terrible. We're an isolated region, but we're not trash.



Yes it does. Zelda is bad. Falco is good. Therefore, Zelda loses.



When you insult a group of people and don't care about how we feel about it, then that's pretty messed up.



No. What I want you to do is go out and place in tournaments with 40+ people in them.



Ratio is probably 40-60.

If you're trying to bait me with these implied undertones of "you have no tournament experience so your opinion doesn't matter"........I don't care.

Samus is bad........Snake is good. Does that mean Samus can't be a difficult matchup for Snake? No.

I never insulted anyone......learn how to read posts correctly.

Oh and Hawaii tournaments have a few good players......but placing in that region is not some sort of big deal as your making it out to be.

 

[-Mars-]

It's not in Zelda's favor. Falco punishes Zelda too hard, camps her too hard, and gimps her too hard.

And it doesn't matter if Zelda can kill him earlier. By that logic, Ganon should have an advantage on everyone, since he kills everyone at earlier percents then they kill him.

Besides the fact that Zelda actually has viable kill setups and not a million frames of lag? Yeah that's about right.

 

[Darkmusician]

60:40 Advantage Falco at least.

 

[MrEh]

Besides the fact that Zelda actually has viable kill setups and not a million frames of lag? Yeah that's about right.

Good luck hitting him.

........I don't care.

That's good.

Samus is bad........Snake is good. Does that mean Samus can't be a difficult matchup for Snake?

On average? No.

I never insulted anyone......learn how to read posts correctly.

Learn to be civil.

Oh and Hawaii tournaments have a few good players......but placing in that region is not some sort of big deal as your making it out to be.

Placing in a "bad" region is better then not placing at all.

Got any tournament results to show us?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

It's not in Zelda's favor. Falco punishes Zelda too hard, camps her too hard, and gimps her too hard.

And it doesn't matter if Zelda can kill him earlier. By that logic, Ganon should have an advantage on everyone, since he kills everyone at earlier percents then they kill him.

It does matter when you can still getting kills because if it's twice as hard for you to kill me then i have a natural advantage. Snake d3 and DK can contest to this. Now depending on your move set or lack their of [gannondorf] is also a factor. If we consider yours and DM match up critique which ssys jab and silent laser> your move set. Which is basically playing in falco's ideal range is a problem. If you guys brought up zelda's ideal range and had zelda in that range what options do falco have when your outside has jab range yet close enough to not allow him to silent laser? That is of course if we want to generate a real discussion instead of falco's high tier zelda's low tier bad match up for Zelda.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Got any tournament results to show us?

with all due respect. You don't have Zelda tournament placings either.

If you persist that you don't need them, why should he?

 

[MrEh]

It does matter when you can still getting kills because if it's twice as hard for you to kill me then i have a natural advantage.

Falco kills Zelda easier then she kills him.

Not earlier, easier. And safer I might add.

with all due respect. You don't have Zelda tournament placings either.

With all due respect, I'm actually the best Zelda in the nation. I laugh and DM and SniperWorm because they aren't using Zelda the way I feel she should be played.

If you persist that you don't need them, why should he?

I don't need them because I exist to simply say that Zelda sucks. (and then provide a reasonable argument to explain why) I exist to start debate and make people talk with one another. In short, I troll. But I'm a friendly troll.

 

[-Mars-]

Tournament results are not necessarily a standard for whether or not you can debate about a game on a open forum.


Look at Emblem Lord........what tournament placings did he ever have? Yet he was let into the backroom based off of his contributions to the Marth metagame and he was/is respected in the community.

How many times are you going to keep up with this argument? It really doesn't phaze me.

Oh and I am in no way being uncivil. I really just don't care if somehow somebody gets butthurt about something that I didn't even say.........it matters little. That does not mean I am being uncivil.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Falco kills Zelda easier then she kills him.

Not earlier, easier. And safer I might add.



With all due respect, I'm actually the best Zelda in the nation. I laugh and DM and SniperWorm because they aren't using Zelda the way I feel she should be played.



I don't need them because I exist to simply say that Zelda sucks. (and then provide a reasonable argument to explain why) I exist to start debate and make people talk with one another. In short, I troll. But I'm a friendly troll.

which of his kill moves are safe?
Also how does he kill her easier?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

In short, I troll. But I'm a friendly troll.

I somehow don't think this is the image of Mr. Eh that anyone in the zelda boards has:

 

[MrEh]

Tournament results are not necessarily a standard for whether or not you can debate about a game on a open forum.

Everyone is allowed to debate on a forum no matter how they place in tournaments.

But if you don't place, or if you're not extremely friendly, then most likely people won't care about what you have to say. ^^

Look at Emblem Lord........what tournament placings did he ever have? Yet he was let into the backroom based off of his contributions to the Marth metagame and he was/is respected in the community.

Emblem Lord isn't in the back room. lol

How many times are you going to keep up with this argument? It really doesn't phaze me.

What argument?

That does not mean I am being uncivil.

I don't really give a ****

That sounds a bit uncivil to me.

which of his kill moves are safe?
Also how does he kill her easier?

He kills her easier because he can gimp her easier then she can gimp him, and he can easily set up one of his smashes with no effort on his part. One Usmash is all he needs.

I somehow don't think this is the image of Mr. Eh that anyone in the zelda boards has:

Everyone in the Zelda boards secretly loves me.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm pretty sure he was just as he was in the sbr be4 he quit.

 

[-Mars-]

Once again I don't care. I would love to debate with you about how much of a competent player you are and tap into your vast pool of Zelda knowledge but I have work in the morning. Nite everyone!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Everyone in the Zelda boards secretly loves me.

yes, well, you're grabbing Zelda's ***, so I wouldn't take her civility for granted. I imagine trolls are not immune to lightning kicks.

 

[sniperworm]

If you guys brought up zelda's ideal range and had zelda in that range what options do falco have when your outside has jab range yet close enough to not allow him to silent laser?

What can Zelda do at that range?

I honestly think the optimal range is close to Falco (close enough where Dtilt, Dsmash, and maybe even Usmash can reach). Not even his ridiculous jab is safe at that range and his lasers are a non-issue. The only notable thing he gains at this range is his grab, but Zelda isn't as worried about that as other characters are.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

What can Zelda do at that range?

I honestly think the optimal range is close to Falco (close enough where Dtilt, Dsmash, and maybe even Usmash can reach). Not even his ridiculous jab is safe at that range and his lasers are a non-issue. The only notable thing he gains at this range is his grab, but Zelda isn't as worried about that as other characters are.

what's the worst he can do to us out of that anyway? Dthrow to Dair? if he attempts to grab a second time, he gets lightning kicked.

The tough thing is getting forcing falco to stay close, but, yeah we beat him there.

 

[MrEh]

I imagine trolls are not immune to lightning kicks.

Trolls have immunity to Lightning Kicks.


But seriously, sometimes the best thing you can do against Falco is just approach with your shield and hope he screws up..

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Trolls have immunity to Lightning Kicks.


But seriously, sometimes the best thing you can do against Falco is just approach with your shield and hope he screws up..

conisdering zelda has to approach falco, and she has good OoS options against him, no, that's not a bad idea.

 

[sniperworm]

what's the worst he can do to us out of that anyway? Dthrow to Dair? if he attempts to grab a second time, he gets lightning kicked.

The tough thing is getting forcing falco to stay close, but, yeah we beat him there.

I believe the most damaging option he has is Dthrow to Dash Attack to Usmash (I don't remember what it's called, DLX cancel or something like that).

Obviously it's hard to keep him next to us, but he was asking about Zelda's ideal range so I mentioned where I think Zelda does best.

 

[Lukenessmonster]

Alright. First off, Hawaii has one of the best/friendliest communities out there. They have amazing players and how dare you criticize them.

Darkmusician is one of if not THE best Zelda in the country. He knows zelda inside and out and takes down some of the best competitors in smash. No matter how hard the matchup he can still win the challenge. Not to mention hes one of the nicest people i know so dont be hatin on him. he didnt do anything to you.

MrEh is probably the best bowser i have ever seen. He tears through metaknight, snake,dedede, falco, and any other character you throw at him. He has amazing mindgames and gives all the bowser mains the inspiration they need to stick with him. He has definitely proved that hes a great player. He does really good in tournaments and hes using BOWSER

Sniperworm's sheik is just too good. Metaknight: no problem, snake:gtfo, He is absolutely DEDICATED to sheik and wont let anyone stop him. I dont see any other sheiks entering tournament and placing as well as he does.


I could go on and on about Hawaii's players like WAR, Lethal Trilogy, AeRow, Firefly, Convael, KOrean, DanL. EpicFail, Swift Kai, Lucky, the list goes on. Hawaii has some of the best players out there, and most of them are underrated, WAR is the best example. But dont be comin in here like a hotshot and thinking you know more about zeld athan anyone in hawaii because they learn from the best, Darkmusician.


They know more than you, and don't bash other people because they arent agreeing with you. Hawaii's community is one to be learned from so dont hate on them, they deserve respect because they give respect. Marsulas, try me.

 

[-Mars-]

Wow man I just don't know what to say........you have completely humbled me. Thank you I now see the error of my ways.

 

[MrEh]

Wow man I just don't know what to say........you have completely humbled me. Thank you I now see the error of my ways.

*claps*

Well now that this little mess is all settled, we can continue on with our matchup discussion. ^^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

it was the Ryoko Yaska Vs. Dark Musician matchup right?

I still think it's no worse than 55:45.

 

[MrEh]

it was the Ryoko Yaska Vs. Dark Musician matchup right?

DM wins with Zelda. Ryoko wins with Sheik.

I still think it's no worse than 55:45

I say just call it neutral and be done with it.

 

[Kataefi]

Read the dedede thread.

Don't know the ratio and frankly I don't care, it's the vainest part of the matchup and shouldn't mattter anyways. I'll get the falco mains' take on this.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

O boy

10wonders?

 

[13reaper13]

O boy

10wonders?

I know where u live. I know where ull die. And my one and only post shall rule this board forever. Of course this **** (****) will make it my 2nd post... making me contradict my self... which BLOWS....

****! **** in case it gets censored as usual

 

[Supreme65]

I think Zelda may have a small advantage. Cuz unlike mk. Zelda can at least stop the laser spams.

 

[-Mars-]

great post. I considered siggin that.

Edit: Couldn't pass it up....sigged.