Matchup trouble

[CSTIK]

Hey, my three friends' mains are Wolf, Sonic, and Olimar. Being Lucario, I find each of them difficult to beat.

Wolf and Sonic are too fast to react to--many of Lucario's moves require attacking before they are even in range of the attack.

Olimar can side-B his pikmin toward me, and I can't get close. They take the Aura Spheres for him, and if I try to get close, I often just get smashed away.

Any advice, like ways to making Lucario in control of the match instead of Wolf, Sonic, and Olimar?

 

[Pastafarian]

Hey, my three friends' mains are Wolf, Sonic, and Olimar. Being Lucario, I find each of them difficult to beat.

Wolf and Sonic are too fast to react to--many of Lucario's moves require attacking before they are even in range of the attack.

Olimar can side-B his pikmin toward me, and I can't get close. They take the Aura Spheres for him, and if I try to get close, I often just get smashed away.

Any advice, like ways to making Lucario in control of the match instead of Wolf, Sonic, and Olimar?

If you're near Olimer and have pikmin on you you can do an unexpected doubleteam. It also works for removing the pikmin.

 

[CSTIK]

If you're near Olimer and have pikmin on you you can do an unexpected doubleteam. It also works for removing the pikmin.

Oh right, I knew that... but how does it help me get close? Throwing purples has knockback, and he's not really good at managing pikmin, but wouldn't another Olimar have a purple ready?

But at least him...when he start spamming his side-b, I guess I can take a hit, advance slightly (he gets ready to smash), then stop short and down-b. Will it work?

 

[Pastafarian]

Oh right, I knew that... but how does it help me get close? Throwing purples has knockback, and he's not really good at managing pikmin, but wouldn't another Olimar have a purple ready?

But at least him...when he start spamming his side-b, I guess I can take a hit, advance slightly (he gets ready to smash), then stop short and down-b. Will it work?

I suppose, but I'm just an ok player. If your friends aren't pros, then it probably would work.

 

[LucarioPAX]

How pro are your friends is the main question.

Getting at olimar is mainly using dair spam on him, and then if there are any pikmin on you, or your being attacked as well, you can drop into a doubleteam. (This prolly wont work if your friends are really good.)

Wolf, you prolly wanna stay away from, until you can see hes got his back to you and blastering someone else, or just preoccupied. Then you can dair him some, or try and get off a pre-charged sphere (I like to keep them handy) Sonic, I would wait for him to attack you, because his game is mostly ground based, with dashing up to you to do damage, instead of others who damage after getting close. I would attempt to either keep safe by force palming from a distance to stop him in his tracks, or if your pro, grab him with force palm, or a grab.

Dtilt is also good in my opinion to debulk pikmin.

 

[Nodrak]

For practice, fight against level 9 olimar, wolf and sonic. It'll help you understand their limitations and movesets. Once you have those down, play a few rounds with your friends, watch for any patterns in their fighting style and compensate for it. To be honest, quite a few Lucario players seem to have trouble against wolf and olimar, but that can be overcome with practice.

 

[Tinshi]

Agianst olimar just take some hits here and their and watch whats coming next so you know what hit to take and what to not. The trick to fighting olimar is to just hit him. The olimar will die in like three hits anyway. As for sonic he can be hit out of all of his moves and lucario just sits and waits for him. Just spam those fireballs to annoy him and then play defence when he is coming at you.

As for wolf this matchup feels very 50 50 to me. The laser is annoying but the fireball spam annoys everyone so just stick with that. and Dair The hell out of him becasue he has no up aerials that have high priority.

 

[Ilucamy]

For Olimar, just do the double team thing, depending on how good your friends are, you could also probably get away with charing your aura sphere while pikmin fly into it and die. Again, only if your friends are stupid. Olimar has good aerials, but a short aerial range in comparison to Lucario. (Except maybe his U-air)

Sonic is evil, but you can probably beat him in the air, because the ground is totally Sonic's territory. He's not as fast in the air. Aura Sphere is your friend, use it when he runs towards you and FOLLOW it, then he has five options. Shield, short hop airdodge, jump, roll, or dodge (shield-down).

If he rolls back, he gets hit
Forward, you can hit him
Jump, meet him in the air and get him with an aerial combo
Shield and dodge = Grab him

Just keep Sonic off the ground and you should be fine.

Wolf, I have no idea, but I think you are better off trying to just spam dairs on him.

 

[CSTIK]

LucarioPAX, can you elaborate on the Dtilt?

And as for skill level, we're all pretty good, like pre-professional or something. We do well in tournaments, but never win.

Sonic: Defense is pretty much what I'm doing as well as of right now, and my friend finds it annoying that he approaches me and has a 2/3rds chance of getting aura in his face instead, but he's good at the aerial combos, so we're pretty even. I guess it comes down to using Down-B or Nair to throw him off?

Wolf: Well in a 1v1, I can't be an opportunist and fire the fully charged aura spheres. Also, he's good at reflecting. I always immediately shield after my spheres now and still get hit by my spheres as often as he does. >.> The acceleration of the sphere is what's killing me. Sometimes I hit him if I use them close, but there's also the risk that I won't be able to shield if he predicts the sphere. I have him paranoid, though--sometimes I get in free hits because he reflected a not-fired sphere.

I still have trouble though because once Wolf gets in close, his smashes chase me across the ground. If I go air, Wolf's front air can get me (about 50% of the time, sometimes he gets a foot to the face instead). So mainly I'm having trouble getting away so I can hit him as he comes in again, because Lucario's tilts are even no match for Wolf's side smash and side tilt. If I predict a smash, though, I can pre-emptively grab. Grabbing Wolf out of a smash feels REALLY good. But still, can't escape. I try to Dtilt but i'm always facing the wrong direction, Utilt is out of range, Stilt only hits half the time--his smash is still faster--and it has enough lag after that he can smash me if I miss it.

Olimar: Mainly he knocks me around with Fair and keeps me away with Side-B and side smash. Utilt can sometimes keep away the pikmin, and it gets them off before they do more than 1% (3% white). Still the matter of approach is difficult, though. perhaps a short hop in with a down-b?

 

[CSTIK]

Sonic update: Ok, -I- have a Sonic tip. He's fast, but after you play him for a bit, you'll be able to time a smash in his face as he runs toward you. If you don't have time because he's doing a little combo or something, don't panic because your attacks are too slow--grab! Only grabbing Wolf out of his side smash is cooler than grabbing Sonic out of his run. (Yes, I have done both before, but the former with only like 10% success chance .)

Wolf update: If he's good with his shine and aerials like my friend is, you'll have to air dodge. My friend is really unpredictable with his aerials because he can either jump jump, jump right jump left, or jump left jump right. (his Fair and Bair are both good. Fair can kill at fairly low %s if you hit someone with it in the air, even.) Usually he tries to come from behind because Luc's bair has startup lag. So, air dodge is the only thing you can do, really. Fair actually has its hit box too high--if Wolf spaces it right, I can stick my foot out and he'll hit my anyway. He usually avoids attacking from below unless I messed up and am vulnerable because of Luc's Dair.

Olimar update: my friend is playing other characters, so I dunno yet. He's vulnerable from diagonals but has a great shield grab

 

[Milln]

My advice is try playing as the characters you have trouble with and feel how their moves work and what goes into what and... generally.. just how everything --feels--. That way, when you go back to face them, you can know what your opponent is going to do sometimes before even they do. Because it's what you would do. Makes predicting and countering much easier.

 

[rayecho]

Against Olimar, I would say to use DownB if they spam smash attacks or projectiles. Just don't use this move predictably cause it could get real bad real quick.

Wolf/Sonic - Good luck. hahaha

 

[Browny]

As a sonic/lucario mainer, id say dont use double team vs sonic. ever. even if he attacks you he is more than fast enough to move out of the way and running grab you straight out of double team.

against wolf, master the extreme edgehog.

 

[CSTIK]

Thanks guys. No longer having trouble with Sonic or Olimar. Wolf is still hard, but I don't know how to play him very well. I think if I play him for a bit and master the hog i should be fine.