Guide Melee 225: Advanced Bowser Tech [Competing in a 20XX World]

[Synnett]

Also, usually you are only able to get a bite after 50% if they are "mash-out happy". But if you do teh bite and while the biting animation rolls, you hold the c-stick down, you will automatically dthrow without your opponent having an opportunity to mashout. It doesn't work for up, back and front throw tho, only down. Get those extra percents.

 

[gmBottles]

Also, usually you are only able to get a bite after 50% if they are "mash-out happy". But if you do teh bite and while the biting animation rolls, you hold the c-stick down, you will automatically dthrow without your opponent having an opportunity to mashout. It doesn't work for up, back and front throw tho, only down. Get those extra percents.

I don't think I've ever had that problem lol. I usually chomp only if I need the percentage, otherwise I'm trying to catch them off guard to get rude DI on a bthrow or something. Depends where I'm at on stage, near and facing the ledge should almost always be dthrow imo

 

[the muted smasher]

Missed tech has a 26 lag before they can roll in any direction or get up attack.

If bowser ducks does he take up more space preventing a tech as far behind him? It'd be hype if bowser could dash in cc a get up attack and shorter their tech behind at the same time

 

[Synnett]

Something "new" - on Battlefield, if you full jump roughly on the middle of the line right under the platform while running toward the ledge, you can cancel any aerial on the ledge. You can get a double fair and stuff like that. You can even do it by standing here and jumping toward the ledge. A good mixup would be to koopa klaw after the cancel, dunno lol.

 

[Synnett]

I found out that if you release from the ledge and jump, and at the peak of your jump airdodge toward the side platform of Battlefield, you can land on the side platform. It's pretty precise, but it's possible. And if you do it with still the invincibility frames from the ledge, you are intangible until you land on the ledge, where you can buffer shield.

I guess it's going to be useful, I'll try it against a Marth, I'll see if I can get through this blade.

 

[gmBottles]

I found out that if you release from the ledge and jump, and at the peak of your jump airdodge toward the side platform of Battlefield, you can land on the side platform. It's pretty precise, but it's possible. And if you do it with still the invincibility frames from the ledge, you are intangible until you land on the ledge, where you can buffer shield.

I guess it's going to be useful, I'll try it against a Marth, I'll see if I can get through this blade.

Could you instantly upB on the platform with this as well? This would be a great way to get to center stage from ledge.

 

[Synnett]

After a few attempts, there's a way to land cancel or something. You know when you jump on a ledge and cancel the momentum with a nair? Well, it can do that, and then you can instantly upB. I'll check that : o

Edit: Yes it works omg

 

[Synnett]

So in short, you do the ledge thing (how do we call that?), land cancel, have 6 frames of vulnerability, then upB kicks in. Pretty good.

 

[gmBottles]

I think you should be able to do an upB as soon as you land. I would test it now if I could. Nonetheless good find, I'll have to experiment next time I play.

 

[gmBottles]

I'm thinking this can work because I know for a fact that on Battlefield you can do an instant upB after releasing ledge and jumping, and land on the side platform with no lag and do another upB instantly.

 

[Synnett]

I'm thinking this can work because I know for a fact that on Battlefield you can do an instant upB after releasing ledge and jumping, and land on the side platform with no lag and do another upB instantly.

Doesn't airdodge force a landing animation? But you could be right, as for a no impact land I'd need to go just a tiny bit higher. I believe it's possible with a perfect angle from the ledge and then a perfect angle on the platform, gaining enough height to no impact land.

I'll try

 

[the muted smasher]

I don't know if this is common knowledge or not but bowser,s legs/arms/head are invincible as soon as You 2nd jump and till You return to the height You first jumped. Like he will stick his limbs back out and look like he's just free falling but will still be invincible

 

[gmBottles]

I don't know if this is common knowledge or not but bowser,s legs/arms/head are invincible as soon as You 2nd jump and till You return to the height You first jumped. Like he will stick his limbs back out and look like he's just free falling but will still be invincible

I don't think that's common knowledge, but it's not all that useful either lmao. His torso is still larger than most characters' entire bodies.

Neat nonetheless though, I wasn't aware

 

[Plunder]

I thought just by the animation alone that was common knowledge, perhaps I assumed wrong.

That's why you see DJ Nintendo almost always jump > DJ in neutral and FF fair or side-B out of it. His profile and hurtbox is much smaller than just trying SH or FH into an approach. You run the risk of not having DJ if you get hit, but it seems worth the risk since it doesnt help tremendously off stage compared to his up-b.

 

[gmBottles]

I thought just by the animation alone that was common knowledge, perhaps I assumed wrong.

That's why you see DJ Nintendo almost always jump > DJ in neutral and FF fair or side-B out of it. His profile and hurtbox is much smaller than just trying SH or FH into an approach. You run the risk of not having DJ if you get hit, but it seems worth the risk since it doesnt help tremendously off stage compared to his up-b.

hmm, you're definitely right there. I wasn't thinking about it like that really.

 

[the muted smasher]

It's a lot of inv. Frames and most of his fall back down even with his head/limbs fully out they are invincible

Also bowser hits the peak of his 2nd jump much quicker than all but I think gannon

 

[Synnett]

A little something I found regarding grabs. When you down throw, if you slap the stick forward, you dash forward then stop right in front of the opponent. Here, you can cover all options with another dash, a pivot grab, a shield grab or simply a grab/move, without any chances of missing, as you have the perfect timing.

Another thing is that if you dash then release the stick, Bowser will stay in its running state while slowing down. You can trick opponents with a dash grab while you are standing still, reaching farther because you are technically still in your running animation. Try it out : o

 

[gmBottles]

A little something I found regarding grabs. When you down throw, if you slap the stick forward, you dash forward then stop right in front of the opponent. Here, you can cover all options with another dash, a pivot grab, a shield grab or simply a grab/move, without any chances of missing, as you have the perfect timing.

Another thing is that if you dash then release the stick, Bowser will stay in its running state while slowing down. You can trick opponents with a dash grab while you are standing still, reaching farther because you are technically still in your running animation. Try it out : o

I never really thought about this as a strategy worth sharing since I do it with a lot of characters other than Bowser. Something else I love doing is using this to condition them into a tech in, wavedash back and grab them again. They always get thrown off by it and rarely DI well after.

 

[gmBottles]

https://discord.gg/015HpJkgyt0TSnYUv

I've made a Discord server for the Koopa Klan. I don't expect many people using it, since there are approximately 7 Bowser mains, but I figured it's worth a shot.

 

[Synnett]

A small something someone showed me. If you ever get hit by a move on shield, you can hold the stick right or left and it will buffer a frame perfect roll after the hit. If you have a hard time escaping Falco's Dair Shine on your shield, buffer the roll after the dair and the shine won't hit.

I know that Bowser's roll isn't that good, but hopefully it gives a few more options. It works well with other characters too.

 

[gmBottles]

A small something someone showed me. If you ever get hit by a move on shield, you can hold the stick right or left and it will buffer a frame perfect roll after the hit. If you have a hard time escaping Falco's Dair Shine on your shield, buffer the roll after the dair and the shine won't hit.

I know that Bowser's roll isn't that good, but hopefully it gives a few more options. It works well with other characters too.

Up-B OoS is almost always going to be your best option

 

[ChivalRuse]

A small something someone showed me. If you ever get hit by a move on shield, you can hold the stick right or left and it will buffer a frame perfect roll after the hit. If you have a hard time escaping Falco's Dair Shine on your shield, buffer the roll after the dair and the shine won't hit.

I know that Bowser's roll isn't that good, but hopefully it gives a few more options. It works well with other characters too.

It's not frame-perfect. Buffered rolls, spotdodges, and jumps happen 1 frame after they are possible. If you are frame perfect on timing, you can do all of these commands faster manually than by buffering.

 

[Synnett]

I don't know if it's going to be useful, but if you run off a side platform and input a Uair on Battlefield, Dream Land, Pokemon Stadium and even Yoshi's Story, it's just enough time so the hitbox comes out before touching the ground, and you can Uair like super quick. It can also hit some characters if they are standing on the ground, but it would be to read a jump mostly. (Like if they're trying to avoid a Koopa Klaw)

That's it.

 

[gmBottles]

I don't know if it's going to be useful, but if you run off a side platform and input a Uair on Battlefield, Dream Land, Pokemon Stadium and even Yoshi's Story, it's just enough time so the hitbox comes out before touching the ground, and you can Uair like super quick. It can also hit some characters if they are standing on the ground, but it would be to read a jump mostly. (Like if they're trying to avoid a Koopa Klaw)

That's it.

Yeah, trying to hit a grounded enemy with uair is really dangerous though. Still, maybe if you catch them out of a jump or catch them landing, it can be useful.

 

[Dralro]

This guide had some really big stuff, I was surprised at how cool everything was, and that we could see a lot of new and fresh tech for bowser, I've already started practicing AFIs and nairs onto platforms, as well as edge-cancels to incorporate them into my play, great work from Pang, also do any of the old good bowsers still inhabit these threads? Or is it just Synnett we have to rely on?

Don't get me wrong Synnett is my boy but I haven't seen the likes of DJ or Eikelmann in quite a while

 

[Synnett]

This guide had some really big stuff, I was surprised at how cool everything was, and that we could see a lot of new and fresh tech for bowser, I've already started practicing AFIs and nairs onto platforms, as well as edge-cancels to incorporate them into my play, great work from Pang, also do any of the old good bowsers still inhabit these threads? Or is it just Synnett we have to rely on?

Don't get me wrong Synnett is my boy but I haven't seen the likes of DJ or Eikelmann in quite a while

DJ Nintendo doesn't play Bowser that much, and he's not really active on the forums. Same thing for Eikelmann and Gimpyfish retired. ;_;

But ye, AFI is like super good. If you do your upB on the first frame of your jump, you will AFI on the side platforms of Battlefield easily. You can basically get up to 30% dmg from the aerial upB then get another one on the platform, or use Koopa Klaw right after you AFI while the other character is still in lag. Or you can recover through someone and get a free ftilt. It's worth checking.

 

[Dralro]

DJ Nintendo doesn't play Bowser that much, and he's not really active on the forums. Same thing for Eikelmann and Gimpyfish retired. ;_;

But ye, AFI is like super good. If you do your upB on the first frame of your jump, you will AFI on the side platforms of Battlefield easily. You can basically get up to 30% dmg from the aerial upB then get another one on the platform, or use Koopa Klaw right after you AFI while the other character is still in lag. Or you can recover through someone and get a free ftilt. It's worth checking.

Well then I guess, with the exception of pang, bowser is yours now.

Passed on by generations, from gimpy, to dj, and now, we are counting on you.

 

[gmBottles]

Hey I'm just as active here as Synnett

Eikelmann actually does come on Smashboards sometimes, he's mostly on the Ganondorf social though since this board has historically been dead af

I also wouldn't recommend using aeriel upB offensively that often. It's possible to SDI out, and then you're gonna get bodied regardless of the AFI if they know what they're doing. If they don't know what they're doing swag out as much as you want

 

[gmBottles]

Well then I guess, with the exception of pang, bowser is yours now.

Passed on by generations, from gimpy, to dj, and now, we are counting on you.

Hell nah I'm that boy

That Bowser Boy

 

[Synnett]

Hell nah I'm that boy

That Bowser Boy

That's what you get for playing Fox!
But ye Lum. is gud too

If they don't know what they're doing swag out as much as you want

Exactly! From my experience it works, I've done it a few times on Kage when I had the chance and it's just so dank they can't realistically punish.

I'm going head down into this, hopefully you guys follow along lmao.

 

[gmBottles]

That's what you get for playing Fox!
But ye Lum. is gud too

I play Fox because I love Fox. Realistically, I could go the rest of my life playing only Fox and Bowser in Melee and be perfectly happy, and never get tired of the game.

I don't love Fox as much as I love Bowser, but playing a character that actually has options is great.

Also the best swag option is definitely KKfthrow into uair to death. A lot of people will DI in, and you can get a SH uair on spacies at low percents, and on other fastfallers at low-mid (like 30% maybe?). The uair just leads into more uairs, it's a 0-to-death if you can pull it off. It's pretty hard, but I've pretty much mastered it. People in my area call it the J$ Combo.

 

[Synnett]

Also the best swag option is definitely KKfthrow into uair to death. A lot of people will DI in, and you can get a SH uair on spacies at low percents, and on other fastfallers at low-mid (like 30% maybe?). The uair just leads into more uairs, it's a 0-to-death if you can pull it off. It's pretty hard, but I've pretty much mastered it. People in my area call it the J$ Combo.

If you do a full jump after 30% KKfthrow, you can read their 2nd jump lmao. It works so well on Sheik omg :o But ye this is something I have to practice on my side, I started using it to move them closer to the side of the stage without hitting lmao. Or if they DI I run and fair them offstage.

 

[gmBottles]

If you do a full jump after 30% KKfthrow, you can read their 2nd jump lmao. It works so well on Sheik omg :o But ye this is something I have to practice on my side, I started using it to move them closer to the side of the stage without hitting lmao. Or if they DI I run and fair them offstage.

You can always read a double jump with your own double jump, since it makes you smaller you can react to a lot of things, or get the hard read with an instant uair out of the dj

 

[Dralro]

Hey I'm just as active here as Synnett

Eikelmann actually does come on Smashboards sometimes, he's mostly on the Ganondorf social though since this board has historically been dead af

I also wouldn't recommend using aeriel upB offensively that often. It's possible to SDI out, and then you're gonna get bodied regardless of the AFI if they know what they're doing. If they don't know what they're doing swag out as much as you want

Okay clearly I sparked something here I didn't mean to, Lum you are still awesome, and the combo advice and swag here has been great, fox is fun, I just don't know anything about how to play him. And you are both, that bowser boy.

 

[gmBottles]

Okay clearly I sparked something here I didn't mean to, Lum you are still awesome, and the combo advice and swag here has been great, fox is fun, I just don't know anything about how to play him. And you are both, that bowser boy.

Lol I was only joking. Anyway, I'm sure that any questions you have can be answered by both Synnett and I, and if they can't, then we can all band together to figure it out.

Also I love that, not only has this become the Bowser Social, there are new Bowser players joining in.

 

[Synnett]

That's the bit of rivalry between gmBottles and I. ^_^ Don't worry lmao.

But yep, having new people around really motivates me to get better. I'll probably go back to lab with Boozer to find some dank new stuff. I'll try to write a guide on how to edgeguard some characters too, it could be neat.

 

[gmBottles]

That's the bit of rivalry between gmBottles and I. ^_^ Don't worry lmao.

But yep, having new people around really motivates me to get better. I'll probably go back to lab with Boozer to find some dank new stuff. I'll try to write a guide on how to edgeguard some characters too, it could be neat.

Ah I think we could collaborate on an edgeguarding guide, I consider my edgeguards one of my better skills with Bowser. Would be interesting to work together on that and lab some stuff out.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Do any of you guys have vods? I'm kind of curious to see what Bowser players are up to these days.

Edit: I found some of Synnett's matches on the Montreal channel

 

[gmBottles]

I don't have any recent Bowser vods, unfortunately. Just imagine a Bowser doing a bunch of waveland moonwalks and uair combos

 

[ChivalRuse]

Dsmash is a pretty good move I think. At least it's hard to punish on netplay