Montage's List of Stage Bans!

[/~Dogma~\]

i agree with ever point u make

ban em BAN EM ALL....>.>

 

[LinkNSnake4Main]

My response : http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3825648#post3825648

 

[LanKaN]

Which is why stages with walls have to be banned. Pikachu can kill anyone easily. You'll understand when you play the game.

Yeah, it's a shame that Sakurai could have overlooked this if it indeed cannot be escaped. Hopefully, someway to escape this bs will occur. Otherwise, RIP Pokemon Stadium =(

 

[dmbrandon]

My response : http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3825648#post3825648

Closed thread in less than a page.

Yeah, it's a shame that Sakurai could have overlooked this if it indeed cannot be escaped. Hopefully, someway to escape this bs will occur. Otherwise, RIP Pokemon Stadium =(

PS could be a counter pick for teams. That one wall could only be one stock for two people.

It's all in how you play it.

 

[Gea]

Japes shouldn't be banned for reasons you listed, lol.

It had the *same* issues in Melee. It is a counterpick stage. That simple.

 

[courte]

op-- melee mindset much lol j/k

 

[dmbrandon]

Japes shouldn't be banned for reasons you listed, lol.

It had the *same* issues in Melee. It is a counterpick stage. That simple.

WRONG!! lol

When tether recover is used, they tough the water. The fact that you have 2 seconds of swim lag before you can jump gimp half the cast.

 

[Gea]

WRONG!! lol

When tether recover is used, they tough the water. The fact that you have 2 seconds of swim lag before you can jump gimp half the cast.

It totally gimped some recoveries in Melee as well. Plus the klaptrap was a 1 hit KO and it STILL was counterpick.

You have *some* valid points but you certainly aren't speaking for the whole community here. You seem to confuse "banning" with "making counterpick." There is a difference. Ever tried to play Ness in Melee on Japes? No? Well it pretty much swept him away.

Just because they gimp *some* characters doesn't mean its a rigged stage and it should be banned.

Likewise your argument for Kanto 1 to maybe be banned is flawed. I understand infinites are easier in Brawl. I understand that, alright? But it suffered from the SAME issues in Melee and it remained one of six randoms. The stage changes. So what if its a 30 second wait? It happened in PLENTY of tourny matches and it was deemed perfectly legal.

I realize this is your own personal list but some of your reasons need rethinking.

Did you know that shine was not the only reason Yoshi's Island was banned? Do you also realize that using your logic it should still be banned because if Ness or Lucas falls in the middle they cannot recover?

 

[Fonz]

I thought about it, and what if it's down to 1on1? Then if one person who has 170% catches an infinite against a person who is at 0, he loses.

I guess I'd relate that to a 2v1 in melee. We've all seen people get rapid jab infinited while their partner held onto the victim. I've been unfortunately been at the receiving end of that a few times and given it back a few too. Was fighting nubsauce (drephen joebushman) and they were both last stock high % and I was at 0. They grab infinited me (I was a space animal so couldn't get out) til I was at kill % and that was that. Sucks, but that's how it goes. I had to avoid grabs while they were both on the stage and alive and I didn't. Avoiding walls during a brief teams 1v1 is much easier than avoiding grabs altogether. If teams grab infinites aren't banned I don't think wall jab combos should be either.

Did you know that shine was not the only reason Yoshi's Island was banned? Do you also realize that using your logic it should still be banned because if Ness or Lucas falls in the middle they cannot recover?

I'm not sure Ness' recovery had anything to do with Yoshi Pipes eventual banning. Yoshi Pipes was legal for years as a counterpick. Ness had a known problem recovering there from the beginning (just like he got screwed on Saffron City in smash 64). It wasn't til matches like Zelgadis vs Eddie happened there and people were waveshined up the side that it was banned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJHl9St-lvo (still hillarious =P)

Zelgadis still lost that set I believe. Stages weren't banned so much for being harmful for 1 particular character as much as when they gave certain characters overwhelming advantages against others. The shy guys can eat Ness' upB on Yoshi's story sending him to an early grave, but that never effected its legality. Being gimped to hell by players/stages just comes with the territory when you pick Ness unfortunately.

 

[dmbrandon]

It totally gimped some recoveries in Melee as well. Plus the klaptrap was a 1 hit KO and it STILL was counterpick.

You have *some* valid points but you certainly aren't speaking for the whole community here. You seem to confuse "banning" with "making counterpick." There is a difference. Ever tried to play Ness in Melee on Japes? No? Well it pretty much swept him away.

Just because they gimp *some* characters doesn't mean its a rigged stage and it should be banned.

Likewise your argument for Kanto 1 to maybe be banned is flawed. I understand infinites are easier in Brawl. I understand that, alright? But it suffered from the SAME issues in Melee and it remained one of six randoms. The stage changes. So what if its a 30 second wait? It happened in PLENTY of tourny matches and it was deemed perfectly legal.

I realize this is your own personal list but some of your reasons need rethinking.

Did you know that shine was not the only reason Yoshi's Island was banned? Do you also realize that using your logic it should still be banned because if Ness or Lucas falls in the middle they cannot recover?

Yes I know things. I'm not new to the game. JJ doesn't gimp just ness. Ness, Lucas, Ivysaur, ZSS, ICs, Shiek, Olimar. My reasons don't need rethinking, and for you to claim that shows your ignorance. I'm fairly sure you don't have this game. And if you do, I'm sure I've played more, and against better people. We don't just make these thread all willy-nilly. We test things, try them hard. Do you know how many times we've played Frigate Orpheon to test it's merit? Probably as many times as you've played melee's onett. The fact is, walls break the game. As for Kanto1, I'm sure it won't be a neutral stage this time around. albeit, it will be used as a counterpick.

I guess I'd relate that to a 2v1 in melee. We've all seen people get rapid jab infinited while their partner held onto the victim. I've been unfortunately been at the receiving end of that a few times and given it back a few too. Was fighting nubsauce (drephen joebushman) and they were both last stock high % and I was at 0. They grab infinited me (I was a space animal so couldn't get out) til I was at kill % and that was that. Sucks, but that's how it goes. I had to avoid grabs while they were both on the stage and alive and I didn't. Avoiding walls during a brief teams 1v1 is much easier than avoiding grabs altogether. If teams grab infinites aren't banned I don't think wall jab combos should be either.

I know all about infinites. We used to perposely make teams that could do it. (Ness, G&W, Shiek, pika etc.) In pokemon 1, that tree will only cause one stock loss, so I can see it being a counter pick. But permanent walls will break the game

Edit: 5 more points to TA. :D

 

[Gea]

I'm not sure Ness' recovery had anything to do with Yoshi Pipes eventual banning. Yoshi Pipes was legal for years as a counterpick. Ness had a known problem recovering there from the beginning (just like he got screwed on Saffron City in smash 64). It wasn't til matches like Zelgadis vs Eddie happened there and people were waveshined up the side that it was banned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJHl9St-lvo (still hillarious =P)

Zelgadis still lost that set I believe. Stages weren't banned so much for being harmful for 1 particular character as much as when they gave certain characters overwhelming advantages against others. The shy guys can eat Ness' upB on Yoshi's story sending him to an early grave, but that never effected its legality. Being gimped to hell by players/stages just comes with the territory when you pick Ness unfortunately.

That was my entire point. Some of his bannings have to do with a few characters getting gimped.

Let me add something:

Yes I know things. I'm not new to the game. JJ doesn't gimp just ness. Ness, Lucas, Ivysaur, ZSS, ICs, Shiek, Olimar. My reasons don't need rethinking, and for you to claim that shows your ignorance. I'm fairly sure you don't have this game. And if you do, I'm sure I've played more, and against better people. We don't just make these thread all willy-nilly. We test things, try them hard. Do you know how many times we've played Frigate Orpheon to test it's merit? Probably as many times as you've played melee's onett. The fact is, walls break the game. As for Kanto1, I'm sure it won't be a neutral stage this time around. albeit, it will be used as a counterpick.

Saying baseless claims do not support your own arguments. Saying, "I know better than you" in no way validates your claims nor backs up anything. You frankly know nothing about me past what you have read and using these as reasons for supporting your own argument just makes you appear less credible, not more.

Yes, this list is your opinion, but if there is an attempt to have intelligent discussion about it and your refutes are nothing more than, and I quote, "I've played more, and against better people."

Guess what? You said it yourself, THIS ISN'T MELEE. No one is ranked currently and saying you are playing against "better people" is logically unsound. Not only this but some of the most skilled players in Melee did NOT have very sound opinions on bannings or character rankings. Why do you think the BRoom list exists?

Aside from that, do you care to actually refute the argument that has been issued against your beliefs on Kanto, that it isn't hard to wait out bad parts of the stage or avoid them, as was done in Melee?

 

[Zenjamin]

I would just like to say, that even though dmbrandon can come off as confrontational, he has dome more for the Brawl smash community then any of you little ****s.
Lay the frack off, he has said it was his opinion, his opinion with over 100+ hours and a competive crew behind him.

Does that mean hes 100% right and he speaks for the whole community? NO.
Does that mean that he is providing better information the watching some youtube vid and pulling conclusions out of your ass? YES.

I for one like the info he is providing, and i am listening with an open mind and not blowing anything off. and untill I get the game in my hand and some high level completive players to play against, his info is valuable.

so you arrogant little ****s can either shut up and let the man do his thing, or you can find a way to help contribute to the community.



PS:
I know some of you have offered constructive criticism with reason behind your arguements, and that is a good thing.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Gea, have you played this game? More importantly have you played JJ in Brawl? What part of 2 second swim lag don't you understand? The water trashes characters far worse than it did in Melee.

 

[Gaiash]

Why don't just you not ban stages? I mean taking things away from the game like this is pointless, its like saying "Oh we're going to have a tournement of this game, but we're going to take away half of what makes it unquie"
Honestly just leave the game the way it is, if your going to go to such levels to remove things from your tournements why don't you just play another game?

 

[Parassita]

You should pride yourself in your opinions. you display with without shoving them down people's throats, and approach all angles. Good job!

Anyway, I think it's gonna be like green greens. It'll never get solved.

Thank you. Yeah, it'll probably just be allowed, it seems like there's too much to both sides of the argument. I'm still happy there isn't any controversy on Great Sea.

 

[dmbrandon]

Why don't just not bad stages? I mean taking things away from the game like this is pointless, its like saying "Oh we're going to have a tournement of this game, but we're going to take away half of what makes it unquie"
Honestly just leave the game the way it is, if your going to go to such levels to remove things from your tournements why don't you just play another game?

Not to flame you, but this is why people with low post counts get ignored. You don't have enough tournament experience to understand. And I'm much too tired to explain it.

 

[Gaiash]

Not to flame you, but this is why people with low post counts get ignored. You don't have enough tournament experience to understand. And I'm much too tired to explain it.

Maybe thats because I play Super Smash Bros for fun. Its supposed to be a fun game. Take away the randomness and you've taken away Smash Bros. You might as well just play an average fighting game like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur or to keep the crossover Capcom Vs SNK or Marvel Vs Capcom.

I mean whats the point of playing if you're going to remove things, your basicly not playing the same game. Whats next are you going to play Manopoly without chance cards? Maybe you'll play Dragon ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 without transformations or ki attacks. if your going to play something play it the way it is, Brawl has all these new stages, items and features and you choose not to use them.

 

[shadydentist]

Gaiash, let me try to explain:

Yes, this game is supposed to be fun. However, what you find fun is great in a casual setting, but not so good when the point is to win. There is also a type of fun in trying to be as good as you can... and this is where stage bans come in. When the best strategy is running away for seven minutes, thats something that takes away from the fun. When a stage randomly punishes players, that takes away from the fun. The point of stage bans is to maintain an environment where everyone can more or less fairly strive to be as good as they can.

 

[Gaiash]

Gaiash, let me try to explain:

Yes, this game is supposed to be fun. However, what you find fun is great in a casual setting, but not so good when the point is to win. There is also a type of fun in trying to be as good as you can... and this is where stage bans come in. When the best strategy is running away for seven minutes, thats something that takes away from the fun. When a stage randomly punishes players, that takes away from the fun. The point of stage bans is to maintain an environment where everyone can more or less fairly strive to be as good as they can.

The thing is though if your going to have a tournement of a game it should be the game as it is, nothing removed. I mean some people might want to compete because its Smash Bros a fun game they love only to find their favorate character/stage/item isn't allowed, that takes away more fun.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

The thing is though if your going to have a tournement of a game it should be the game as it is, nothing removed. I mean some people might want to compete because its Smash Bros a fun game they love only to find their favorate character/stage/item isn't allowed, that takes away more fun.

Not to flame you, but this is why people with low post counts get ignored. You don't have enough tournament experience to understand. And I'm much too tired to explain it.

 

[JFox]

I don't understand why people fight banned stages with all their soul. Its not like we are banning them from being played, they are just banned in a tournament.

The point of these tournaments are to prove who is better/best at super smash bros. brawl.

Allow me to paint a picture. You spend $50-$100 dollars going across the country to compete with people like you at a serious level. You have the chance to win a grand prize of $1400 (btw these are the types of large scale tournaments that pros go to in melee), and you think you have a good shot at doing it. You have put countless hours practicing with your friends and at home alone, and you think your ready.

You make it to the finals! This match will prove who is the best at this game!!!

Now would you really want to get yourself into a situation like that knowing that the game has a very high luck element involved? Fly across the country, spend hard earned money and time, and than lose because you go unlucky?

I don't understand why when you have the chance to fight on a stage where there is NO luck element, people would rather COMPETE with MONEY on the line, on a stage where you can be the better player and still lose.

Again, you can still play any stage you want FOR FUN. But for god sakes, this is a competition, there shouldn't be a high luck element involved. There's 20 other stages that are fair, and you wanna play on icicle mountain to decide who is better? Think about it people.

Final words:


If I made a bet with you for $50 that I can beat you at super smash bros. brawl, and you were confident that you were better and could beat me, would you wanna risk that kinda money on a stage like icicle mountain, would ya wanna do it on FD?

 

[dmbrandon]

Maybe thats because I play Super Smash Bros for fun. Its supposed to be a fun game. Take away the randomness and you've taken away Smash Bros. You might as well just play an average fighting game like Street Fighter, Soul Calibur or to keep the crossover Capcom Vs SNK or Marvel Vs Capcom.

I mean whats the point of playing if you're going to remove things, your basicly not playing the same game. Whats next are you going to play Manopoly without chance cards? Maybe you'll play Dragon ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 3 without transformations or ki attacks. if your going to play something play it the way it is, Brawl has all these new stages, items and features and you choose not to use them.

If you're on these boards, it's for tournament play. If you want FUN, go to gamefaqs. it's -> that way

I don't understand why people fight banned stages with all their soul. Its not like we are banning them from being played, they are just banned in a tournament.

The point of these tournaments are to prove who is better/best at super smash bros. brawl.

Allow me to paint a picture. You spend $50-$100 dollars going across the country to compete with people like you at a serious level. You have the chance to win a grand prize of $1400, and you think you have a good shot at doing it. You have put countless hours practicing with your friends and at home alone, and you think your ready. You make it to the finals! This match will prove who is the best at this game!

Now would you really want to get yourself into a situation like that knowing that the game has a very high luck element involved? Fly across the country, spend hard earned money and time, and than lose because you go unlucky?

I don't understand why when you have the chance to fight on a stage where there is NO luck element, people would rather COMPETE on a stage where you can be the better player and still lose.

Again, you can still play any stage you want. But for god sakes, this is a competition, there shouldn't be a high luck element involved. There's 20 other stages that are fair, and you wanna play on icicle mountain to decide who is better? Think about it people.

Final words:


If I made a bet with you for $50 that I can beat you at super smash bros. brawl, and you were confident that you were better and could beat me, would you wanna risk that kinda money on a stage like icicle mountain, would ya wanna do it on FD?

<3 5 points to the tunes.

 

[Requiem]

Have you played any of the stages at all? No. I don't think you have.

Rumble Falls moves TWICE as fast as Icicle Mountain in Melee. It is very difficult for slower characters to keep up with the stage itself.

You think the reasons are dumb? You would like to be held infinitely against a wall for an entire match? How about KO'd by a stupidly powerful VERY difficult to avoid(especially with larger charaters) obstacle costing you the match? You are not competitive posting in an obviously competitive thread. Awesome, great job.

My god, you're one of the new people and yet... I seem to love you.


I WUB YOU

 

[Sanu]

Why are you banning places with rapid A stalling? Why wouldn't we ban places that Fox could waveshine then in SSBM? This list is ****ing bull****.

Fail.


Edit: We should ban any stage with walk off sides too then, because DeDeDe can chaingrab just about anyone into death on those stages. See the ******** logic now?

 

[Parassita]

Why are you banning places with rapid A stalling? Why wouldn't we ban places that Fox could waveshine then in SSBM? This list is ****ing bull****.

Fail.

Yeah, I bet you could make a better list anyday. [/sarcasm]

 

[Grmo]

Nah, he makes a good point. It would be more logical to ban the actual tactic (like wobbling), instead of allowing the tactic but banning everything that makes it possible. Besides, don't you think jab infinites would be pretty difficult to actually start? If we're gonna try to prevent jab infinites I think we may as well just ban it in tourneys instead of the stages that allow it. Thoughts?

 

[Gaiash]

If you're on these boards, it's for tournament play. If you want FUN, go to gamefaqs. it's -> that way

Why would I want to go to GameFAQs? I joined here to be part of a Smash Bros forum. The reason my post count is low is because I'm already on various other forums.

Anyway the way I see it is that both players should agree on a stage, that way both players are equally familiar with the stage. Sounds like a good alternative. I also don't understand why people would bet money on playing video games, it doesn't seem right to me. Also I'm English, the farthest I'd travel for a tournement is to London.

 

[Requiem]

Why are you banning places with rapid A stalling? Why wouldn't we ban places that Fox could waveshine then in SSBM? This list is ****ing bull****.

Fail.


Edit: We should ban any stage with walk off sides too then, because DeDeDe can chaingrab just about anyone into death on those stages. See the ******** logic now?

thats...most likely.... why they will be <<


that doesnt take away that when lets say... no one is playing dedede and one player says: lets play the bridge stage!... the other person (assuming he isnt a *******) will most likely say ok.

That they are banned doesnt mean that they will /kick you from a tournement if they see the stage, they just wanna know if both players agreed on it.

the bannings are made to avoid arguing situations, when a player plays fox, and the opponent doesnt want to play a stage with walls, that he has all the right not to.

and dont give me the crap that I expect your few brain cells are making up right now like:
"well then, the opponent just shouldnt play this game"

because you know very well that this is bull !@#$ , if you just joined these forums, even all your little brains should acknowlage and understand, that you should not start arguing with people over how this game is played on a competitive level, for wich these boards are mostly meant, because the chances are SLIGHTLY HIGH, that the veteran players will be right, and you will only make a fool out of yourself.

If you came here by one of the links on the youtube brawl vids, just get your info about brawl, get some frikking experience, and wait a whole !@#$-ing while before starting discussions about the game.

kk? ty @_________________@

 

[Vro]

Anyway the way I see it is that both players should agree on a stage, that way both players are equally familiar with the stage. Sounds like a good alternative. I also don't understand why people would bet money on playing video games, it doesn't seem right to me. Also I'm English, the farthest I'd travel for a tournement is to London.

Not to flame you, but this is why people with low post counts get ignored. You don't have enough tournament experience to understand. And I'm much too tired to explain it.

 

[Parassita]

Why would I want to go to GameFAQs? I joined here to be part of a Smash Bros forum. The reason my post count is low is because I'm already on various other forums.

Anyway the way I see it is that both players should agree on a stage, that way both players are equally familiar with the stage. Sounds like a good alternative. I also don't understand why people would bet money on playing video games, it doesn't seem right to me. Also I'm English, the farthest I'd travel for a tournement is to London.

Tournaments will be hosted a lot more often now with the inclusion of Wi-Fi. Now, you can host tournaments, anytime, anywhere... if you have a Wii and SSBB. (I mean when it comes out in N. America.) That's how I'll be joining tournies.

 

[Grmo]

Vro that's not very nice. You don't have a high post count either >_>

 

[Gaiash]

Not to flame you, but this is why people with low post counts get ignored. You don't have enough tournament experience to understand. And I'm much too tired to explain it.

Not to flame you but that post has been used twice now, try writing your own post. I already explained my low post count in the post you're quoting.

"The reason my post count is low is because I'm already on various other forums."

 

[Requiem]

Tournaments will be hosted a lot more often now with the inclusion of Wi-Fi. Now, you can host tournaments, anytime, anywhere... if you have a Wii and SSBB. (I mean when it comes out in N. America.) That's how I'll be joining tournies.

Wifi tourny's will always still be inferior to real life tournements... believe me

 

[Parassita]

Wifi tourny's will always still be inferior to real life tournements... believe me

Yeah, but they will still be hosted a majority of the time now. They're the ones I'll use to practice and make a reputation... even though I doubt anybody cares!

 

[Requiem]

Yeah, but they will still be hosted a majority of the time now. They're the ones I'll use to practice and make a reputation... even though I doubt anybody cares!

Oh I do care, but the thing is, going to real life tourny's makes your skill grow, when you go to your first one, you'll come back twice as good for sure...

Wifi tournements just wont do this, or atleast, thats what I think.

That doesnt mean that I dont half-assedly agree with you, I'll be hoping for wifi tournements, and joining them too

 

[Parassita]

Yeah, you're right. Eventually I'll go to a real life tournament, but I can gurantee I'll need practice now that I'm transisting to a new main character. -cough, Toon Link, cough- I get what you're saying though.

 

[Requiem]

Yeah, you're right. Eventually I'll go to a real life tournament, but I can gurantee I'll need practice now that I'm transisting to a new main character. -cough, Toon Link, cough- I get what you're saying though.

Now I can see the logic in that

that was not sarcastic btw

 

[dmbrandon]

Why are you banning places with rapid A stalling? Why wouldn't we ban places that Fox could waveshine then in SSBM? This list is ****ing bull****.

Fail.


Edit: We should ban any stage with walk off sides too then, because DeDeDe can chaingrab just about anyone into death on those stages. See the ******** logic now?

Maybe you should play the game when someone camps the wall, catches you with some nonsense into the shine, and he DBs you to 200.

Nah, he makes a good point. It would be more logical to ban the actual tactic (like wobbling), instead of allowing the tactic but banning everything that makes it possible. Besides, don't you think jab infinites would be pretty difficult to actually start? If we're gonna try to prevent jab infinites I think we may as well just ban it in tourneys instead of the stages that allow it. Thoughts?

The jab infinite can be stopped as we've tested, so long as it isn't 2v1, or with something behind them. Fox's shine CANNOT.

The reason the ban is in place, is because in melee, you have to SHFFL Dair into DB jc SHHfl, etc. In this game, you hold down and hit b fast.

 

[Parassita]

Now I can see the logic in that

that was not sarcastic btw

I know, it is sort of hard sometimes to tell sarcasm apart from being serious sometimes on the internet! I can bet you Smashville and Final Destination will be the two most played tournament stages in real life and on Wi-Fi.
@DM; You're taking into account Sakurai's addition of lowering the damage and knockback on continuous attacks and spamming?

 

[JFox]

Wifi tournies are totally in a category of their own. People probably won't be able to set up their own rules in a wifi tourney.

The tournaments that are taken seriously are the one's where money is on the line. These are the types of tournaments which DMBrandon is referring to when he talks about stage bans.

A tournament which is just for fun can set up whatever rules they want. Typically though, for serious tournments, there have always been stages removed simply to keep luck out of the game.

Trust me, you think this whining here is bad, imagine all the kids whining that they lost their 20 bucks because the cars killed them 2 out of their 3 stocks...