Most Challenging MU for your Main.

[SherrdreamZ]

Im curious what people would say are character specifically, their toughest matchups? For instance i personally have a huge problem with DDD, but by matchup i do not see him as near the most difficult for my Main Lucina.

In my opinion the Match i see as the hardest for Lucina to overcome is Either ZSS or Sonic played by a skilled opponent.

VS : Can Mix-up her approach and has the tools to strike from outside most characters ability when it comes to Spacing. She also is not possible to wall out and forces you to approach without any projectile. One mistep with your approach you can get Punished with a stun to U-Air UP-B death combo at a mid %.

Lucina also has huge trouble picking up the KO when ZSS is careful which leads to beating her out in typical DPS which causes you to be fighting from a very conservative place to try not to get caught up in a Combo at least. Lucina thrives off of a bait and punish style but those opportunities become few and far between against a good ZSS and her minimal lag on anything but a whiffed grab. That's why i see her as the most difficult MU for my Main.

VS : Sonic has free reign to his approach and movement to a point that makes Lucina's Disjoints less of an advantage then against most of the Cast. He also can react to just about any attack with a moderate amount of lag which are most of her Aerial's and Specials. Catching Sonic with most specials requires he makes a pivotal mistake, whereas i think he can punish things that no one else can if he has the right positioning.

His hit and run tactics in the same vein as ZSS are very advantageous against non-projectile fighters. It gives him more options to mix-up approach and Grabs at the speed of Sound xP. The reason he is less painful than ZSS for lucina is that he has to commit to something punishable to get the kill. Ive lived against Sonic on multiple occasions over 150% however his character design seems like great counter to Lucina's general Strategies, which makes hitting the ever elusive hedgehog an effort in extreme patience and reads.

Not that this is required but i think compared to other higher Tiers has a decent MU against / not favorable per se. ^^ but she can compete with her utilities and punish game pretty well!

I Look forward to anyone else's thoughts about this subject, It's an interesting thought to see how people differ about their characters strengths and weaknesses that make an MU unfavorable from their view based off the tools of their Main Character.

 

[AvengerV]

Rosalina and Luma for sure

 

[ForteX]

Pikachu, ROB, or Yoshi. Every other so called hard matchup for MegaMan is more of an uphill grind than it is some kind of insurmountable obstacle. The part that bothers me the most about my particular taste in how these turn out is how many other MegaMan mains just outright disagree and claim these to be doable. I'll concede that Yoshi is really tiny, like... 49.5/50.5 Yoshi's favor, but it's just so hard to land a kill on him.

Pikachu and ROB though. Just.

Ugh.

 

[Wintermelon43]

My Answer:

 

[Ryusuta]

There's a lot of kind of iffy matchups for . Like... I don't think he has any absolutely BRUTAL match-ups, just a ton of really "meh" ones. I'd probably sayif I were pressed, though. Piss-easy juggles and absurdly high kill power = sad Mewtwo.

For , I'd probably have to pick someone like . ...Or still Captain Falcon. Meh, I'll say Yoshi.

 

[Simperheve]

I play
I am most often matched up against my brother playing

This ones annoying because Mario has so many tools to just stop Luigi's approach, combos and recovery >.<

 

[Deleted member]

I main Dedede, so I've got a story to tell.

vs. has got to be one of if not the most lopsided MUs in the whole game. ZSS just shuts down Dedede so hard. She can deal with Gordos easily, absolutely murders Dedede in neutral, and since Dedede is a fastfaller he's an easy victim to her quite deadly combos (up airs into Boost Kick, down smash lock across stage into Flip Jump spike). He just gets no room to breathe in this matchup whatsoever because of how good ZSS' frame data is along with how awesome she is at rushdown, plus she gets so much reward off of a grab and Dedede has nothing to contest it. If you play Dedede or any other heavy going up against her is a death wish.

 

[IndigoSSB]

As a Falco main I'm going to throw out Ryu as a possible worst match-up. Normally, as a CQC character, I usually feel like Falco does well against characters that also want to get in close. In most cases you can force a boxing battle, which Falco excels at. However, Falco REALLY suffers for being a fast faller.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm gonna say Sonic.

There's not much Pit can do to pressure him, so he has to play very patiently and bait Sonic into doing something stupid that he can beat him up for.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm gonna say Sonic.

There's not much Pit can do to pressure him, so he has to play very patiently and bait Sonic into doing something stupid that he can beat him up for.

Sonic is hard to deal with in general. His punish game and frame data are just hella off the charts. He may struggle with killing (to a much lesser extent than Brawl anyway) but it really doesn't matter considering how fast he can rack up damage, it's really frustrating.

 

[buzzard]

As Zelda, Little Mac. Her projectiles are completely useless in neutral and he will punish Din's Fire no matter how far she is, all you have is the worst CQC in the game against the best one. At least she can gimp him in many ways once he is offstage, but that's the hard part.

Then Sonic...

 

[ChikoLad]

Sonic is hard to deal with in general. His punish game and frame data are just hella off the charts. He may struggle with killing (to a much lesser extent than Brawl anyway) but it really doesn't matter considering how fast he can rack up damage, it's really frustrating.

I wouldn't even say Sonic has a hard time getting a KO.

Sure they nerfed him since launch but he can still KO early by chasing people off stage, using B-air (which is much more effective than in Brawl since you can finish the move from a short hop and not suffer landing lag), or using spring combos. Also his back throw is still gonna KO really early with rage.

----------------------------

As a , the most difficult MU IMO is , and I think he is seriously overlooked as a threat.

can be annoying but he's not as bad as people make him out to be. Since he has such poor range, I can still actually afford go aggro against him, and if anything, it benefits me more than waiting for him to get by my defenses. I don't think Meta Knight wins this MU, I think it's more or less even. Pretty much just make sure you're always doing SOMETHING against Meta Knight with Rosalina, even if Luma is gone. Make sure there are always some hitboxes out there and you can still give Meta Knight a hard time.

However, Shulk is the only character that can noticeably outrange Rosalina with pretty much everything, even when Luma is around. You pretty much have to play total defense in this MU and rely on punishing Shulk for making mistakes. His Arts also allow him to combo Rosalina pretty hard, more so than any other character IMO. It's very easy for him to just drag you off stage with Speed and a few F-airs or N-airs. And he pretty much doesn't care about Luma's existence, Luma is hardly a threat due to his great range. The best you can hope for is to hope Luma can sneak into his blind spot.

I won't say it's in Shulk's favour outright though. He wins neutral, but loses hard off stage and in the air. So it's kind of evened out. However, since neutral is so important in this game and I think he wins that, he's the only character I am willing to say has the potential to flat out have an overall advantage in the MU.

However, if customs are on, Rosalina wins. Easily. Her customs fix all of the problems she has in the MU and she wins neutral and still wins everything else.

 

[pepi1197]

vs. by a landslide. Fundamentally unwinnable in the hands of a comparable or better Fox player. Fox wins the neutral so hard that it's not even funny and has a fast-acting punish on a vast majority of G&W's moves.

 

[Rinku リンク]

As a Link main for me it have to be

vs.: Considering she neutralizes our projectile play which pretty much forces us to approach which gives her the upper hand by far. Luma just makes things even worse considering he can KO us fairly early despite being heavy and can also block our projectiles for Rosa.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

For , it would have to be entirely because of down B, with second being .
For , It would have to be because she's fast, has fast moves, and can easily push us out of recoverable range. Plus, her needles are better than most of our projectiles.

 

[Babycowland]

I personally find vs. to be really tough. He can reflect your Pikmin throw and all of your smash attacks and then punish you with his own quick smashes and throws. I haven't encountered a lot of Marios online, so most of my experience with that match up is against coms who are pretty good at perfect shielding stuff and nullifying your offense. I don't even want to think about going up against a pro Mario main, haha. It's a match up that I've been trying to get better at, but I don't think there's really an easy solution to it as far as I can tell.

 

[Sceptile4Smash]

As a main, (Please don't kill me) I have a hard time against and .
Roy is a tank, he kills so early and it takes time to get back at him. Every time I try to approach him with a Spindash, (Side B) he can just use his F-smash and I'm already sent flying. Roy barely has end lag to any of his attacks, his F-smash is just crazy in both power and speed, I can't predict that.

As for Ness, literally everything in his moveset can torture me.
I try to get back to the ledge or on stage, Ness's Neutral B and Up B.
I try to approach, Ness's Side B.
I try to edgeguard, I instead get blown back by Ness's human missle.
I try to use a different character with a projectile, Ness's Down B and Ness's S-smash.
Ness's D-smash is perfect for reads.
Ness's U-smash is also perfect for reads.
Ness's S-smash can kill really early and reflect projectiles (Wtf)
Ness's Back Grab is has so much killing power, there's no escape.
Ness's U-air is literally 's U-smash in the air.
And Ness has a pretty good combo game in general, especially with aerials...
is my nightmare

 

[KawKa]

vs annoying as hell I gotta do chip damage then bounce.
vs against a good sheik i'm donzo link's frames are slow she can do 20 moves b4 link pulls off 1.
vs what!

 

[Deleted member]

The most challenging and annoying MU?

Now I dunno much about vs. admittedly, but vs.? That matchup is like... 30:70 Mega Man. Mega Man can interrupt our approaches with his projectiles and he can easily edge guard our very linear recovery (he has good aerial to disrupt our vertical recovery and Charge Shot is godly against out horizontal recovery).
In general, Mega Man is my least favorite character to fight against no matter what character I play. His matches just take an eternity sometimes, even going to time out...

 

[Ryusuta]

The most challenging and annoying MU?

Now I dunno much about vs. admittedly, but vs.? That matchup is like... 30:70 Mega Man. Mega Man can interrupt our approaches with his projectiles and he can easily edge guard our very linear recovery (he has good aerial to disrupt our vertical recovery and Charge Shot is godly against out horizontal recovery).
In general, Mega Man is my least favorite character to fight against no matter what character I play. His matches just take an eternity sometimes, even going to time out...

Can I just take a moment to say how bloody adorable that avatar of yours is?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't really have much experience with facing other players, but based on the rankings alone, Rosalina's worst match-ups are Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and Pikachu. However, others seem to think that Yoshi, Wario, Meta Knight, Zelda, and Olimar are bad match-ups for Rosalina as well, which makes you wonder if people are either overestimating her, or aren't willing to use her more efficiently.

 

[ccthirteen]

My current main is King Dedede. Hardest MU: Ness. He just juggles KD3 so easily with his fair.

It's why I've been trying to change one of my secondaries to my main for a while. As of right now, my secondaries are Yoshi and Mario. I also really enjoy Pikachu (used to be a Pika main in previous smash games).

 

[_SoRa_]

Well, I main Sheik and Shulk
I'm bad at:
withvs. or
withvsor

With Sheik, I have everything controlled vs Mario but one mistake and we are on same % but he can kill me at 100 with a up-smash lol every time I'm Sheik vs Mario he literally dies at 160% minimum, same as Rosa but she a lot lighter so better, still she can kill Sheik at very low % also Luma
With Shulk, Fox literally bodies Shulk and Diddy as well. He doesn't have many answers to these characters

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

While I think most DDD mains will say that ZSS is our worst matchup, I personally think that Sonic is my worst matchup.
I would compare fighting ZSS to fighting a bear with no weapons whatsoever. But if the ZSS matchup is like fighting a bear, the Sonic matchup is like fighting a Shark underwater with no weapons whatsoever. If the Sonic is good, there is simply NOTHING you can do to stop his approaches, and god dang his combo game is so good on DDD. With the slowest air speed in the game, DDD can't do anything to escape sonic in the air, and on the ground, sonic is faster than human reaction can do anything about, especially when all your moves have DDD's startup lag! This matchup is literally cancer.

Other than and , honorable mentions go to:

 

[SherrdreamZ]

I never knew how painful it is to try to fight a good with i was playing against the most conservative ZSS but when she got in no matter when i air-dodged and tried to fast-fall i was still getting juggled. The neutral she evades most attempts at boxing her out and trading in the air was a death sentence due to followup strikes from aerials. Her normal fall was even faster than my FastFall xP. It was fun but i never faced a ZSS that was that dynamic while playing Rosa. The one saving grace is that i seemed to be able to DI out of her UP Special Combo and punish 3 times. At least with Lucina i took a stock haha!

It's possible is one of her hardest MU's but honestly i dont have enough experience to declare that yet..

 

[Duck SMASH!]

absolutely hates

She invalidates pretty much all of Jr's kit.
Her projectile is better, can confirm into grabs, and stops any offensive approaches by Jr. cold. We can't nullify charged shots with our aerials.

Her grab is only 2 frames slower but with MUCH better range, can combo Jr for days, has much less landing lag, is much better at starting juggles (dthrow, utilt, and sometimes even dtilt), outranges Jr's aerials with Nair, has better recovery mixups with her tether and flip jump, has better kill moves in flip jump and boost kick, and pretty much every attack from her hits Jr.'s vulnerable hurtbox for extra damage.

She's a superior offensive character that outshines Jr. in almost every way and it shows in the unevenness of this MU.

 

[ccthirteen]

While I think most DDD mains will say that ZSS is our worst matchup, I personally think that Sonic is my worst matchup.
I would compare fighting ZSS to fighting a bear with no weapons whatsoever. But if the ZSS matchup is like fighting a bear, the Sonic matchup is like fighting a Shark underwater with no weapons whatsoever. If the Sonic is good, there is simply NOTHING you can do to stop his approaches, and god dang his combo game is so good on DDD. With the slowest air speed in the game, DDD can't do anything to escape sonic in the air, and on the ground, sonic is faster than human reaction can do anything about, especially when all your moves have DDD's startup lag! This matchup is literally cancer.

Other than and , honorable mentions go to:

I have to disagree with this. I haven't lost to a good Sonic in my group. In my experience playing against Sonic, most of his approach options rely on charging his spin attack and approaching on the ground. This is thwarted with a simple ftilt from KD3. I'm not aware of a good approach game in the air from Sonic that I couldn't just shield and get a grab off of. It's entirely possible that I'm just not familiar with all of Sonic's approach options but it seems to me that his air game is only good when he's already established control from hitting you off of the ground and sending you reeling.

Ness is much more of an issue for me and I am juggled much easier by him than Sonic.

 

[Tickle Me Trotsky]

is such a pain in the ass for , she can very easily get walled with projectiles and her air game is slow and pretty predictable when edgeguarding, and has good enough air game to pretty easily fight back. Only nice thing is puff floats enough to avoid the 2nd hit of fsmash.

Though it is kind of on me for maining Puff, tbh

 

[Diddy Kong]

There's a lot of kind of iffy matchups for . Like... I don't think he has any absolutely BRUTAL match-ups, just a ton of really "meh" ones. I'd probably sayif I were pressed, though. Piss-easy juggles and absurdly high kill power = sad Mewtwo.

For , I'd probably have to pick someone like . ...Or still Captain Falcon. Meh, I'll say Yoshi.

For Mewtwo, I'd definitely say Fox is one of his harder, if not the absolute hardest matchup. Nothing Mewtwo can really do about jabs, his high-priority aerials, and overall kill power on Mewtwo. Having a solid, fast reflector also doesn't help much.

As for Diddy, I am not struggling too hard with any matchup in particular. I feel less comfortable fighting Mario, but that's not a shared feeling amongst Diddy mains so I've seen. They say Rosalina is hard for us now, but I personally am good at the matchup so... Not too sure which character to put here. Some say we have a disadvantage against Fox to, yet I do not really agree. And Sheik isn't horrible for us either, in fact, we might have the best Sheik matchup. And am sure Diddy has a small advantage over Zero Suit Samus. Pikachu could be mentoined, but he's hardly played.

 

[Ryusuta]

For Mewtwo, I'd definitely say Fox is one of his harder, if not the absolute hardest matchup. Nothing Mewtwo can really do about jabs, his high-priority aerials, and overall kill power on Mewtwo. Having a solid, fast reflector also doesn't help much.

True. As a general rule, Mewtwo fares relatively poorly against rushdown characters he can't space against easily. So, Fox, Pikachu, Falcon, Falco, etc. are all generally tough fights for him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Falco bad for Mewtwo? I thought that matchup was quite even, at least far better for Mewtwo than vs Fox. I'd say that other bad matchups for Mewtwo are Zero Suit Samus and Diddy. ZSS's Up B can probably finish Mewtwo below 50%, and Diddy can dish out damage very quickly on Mewtwo, and finish im relatively easy with U Smash.

 

[Lag Chan]

is absolute hell for , can combo him for days and DDD can barely get an attack in considering how fast her moves are. is a close second but ZSS is still the worse matchup for DDD
vs might possibly be the absolute worst match up in the game, she can literally carry Mac off the stage with her combos and considering how great her off stage game is if Mac does end up off stage he might as well give up.

 

[ZafKiel]

This is just me, but vs . Kirby is just way light and with all the damage Ganondorf can do, it's hard to live. Plus Kirby's range is pretty small so I have a hard time approaching.

 

[Honorius]

Yoshi has a really hard time against Sheik. (Like everyone else) I can't speak for the other Yoshi players out there, but my game becomes almost completely reactive. You can't really bait or throw out generally safe options, like retreating fair. Edge guarding is next to impossible. It's just a really tough MU. You have to stick to well timed jabs/tilts and quick options like Nair. And don't get me started on Sheik's free damage building. At low % You gotta wait for Sheik's 3rd Fair just to jump out. Needle camping is incredibly viable. You gotta put out a wall of eggs just to make it back to the stage.

 

[EleH]

It might be just me, but I trouble in these MU's in particular. I can't even describe how hard it is for me to deal with these.

vs

Donkey can't even compete with Mega Man's pellets, let alone his slipperiness. You can't even land crud if the Mega Man player knows what he's doing, and you're dead if you even dare recover from below. You can barely last against his projectiles because DK's shield is so small, which means free damage for Mega Man... You can only hope you get a ding dong at high %'s for a kill.

I really suffer.

vs

Good golly, I don't even know why I bother here. I get bodied all the time by Fox as Shulk, even if the Fox player is only half decent. This MU is even worse than the Sheik one just because Fox can kill you wilthin one utilt > uair at high %'s. You can't really do anything about fast attacks ether.

Meh, this never ends well unless you can get a counter or two in...

vs

ZSS can camp Dedede believe it or not. You literally can't get around Paralyzer because your mobility is garbage. I mean, really. You approach from the air, she has time to move out of the way because nair has stubby range and fair is just bad. From the ground? You can try using the ol' shield, but that only gets her a free grab. Speaking of grabs, you probably won't land many considering you can't even keep up with her 90% of the time.

And remember what I said about Dedede's mobility being garbage? This means she can combo Dedede really easily. You might be able to escape the uair combos at low %'s, but you have no hope when you're at high %'s.

I personally believe your only hope is to stall and wait for opportunities to present themselves. But even then though, it's still not easy.

vs

This is just an awful MU, though I think it might be able to be handled better with some effort. Until then, I get owned by Rosalina

vs

No.

Just, no.

vs

Good luck catching him, just, good luck. His mobility let's him weave in and out of your hitboxes, which makes him almost impossible to hit - let alone KO.

 

[_SoRa_]

is absolute hell for , can combo him for days and DDD can barely get an attack in considering how fast her moves are. is a close second but ZSS is still the worse matchup for DDD
vs might possibly be the absolute worst match up in the game, she can literally carry Mac off the stage with her combos and considering how great her off stage game is if Mac does end up off stage he might as well give up.

VS its as bad as vs or at least thats what I read.

 

[Frizz]

doesn't do good against complete aggressive characters. I need some time to breathe, and without that, I can't do a darn thing.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Everybody vs Sheik.
Mario vs. Sheik
Dr. Mario vs. Sheik
Rosalina vs. Zero Skill Spamus Zero Suit Samus
Jigglypuff vs. Either Marth or ZSS
Roy vs. Mario
Lucario vs. Falcon

 

[Tarastel]

vs really hard match up due to the his crazy ups and extremely fast falls. He basically dictates the pace of the game. Not to mention you can't punish most of his smash attacks with your own before he shields, then smash attacks again.
Though thankfully after a lot of Nairo matches and other competent Robin players, I now have a few counter measures.

vs Honestly a bit surprised that he's my hardest match up with her. Not even Sheik or Fox give me as much trouble as a Shulk that knows how to properly space and use his arts to the fullest. Not only is his range basically 3 Lucina Falchions but even though he has bad frame data, Lucina still struggles to punish a number of his arials, top that off with his speed and jump arts that let him control the matchup in a similar fashion to Sonic, he is overall fairly annoying to deal with. Not to mention you can't really counter any of his smash attacks due to the two hit system, with the second one being the heavy hitting attack. Sometimes the range difference shows and even when you counter the second hit(energy based ones), you STILL might not hit him.

vs Unsurprising that the only other character I have a hard time with ZSS is Sheik, another character with insane frame data, but even more so.

Honorable mention to have hard time with him using every single character except
That Gyro.

 

[Adamas]

Umm... I'm going to get made fun of for this, but it would have to be Zelda. I don't know, I don't have too much experience with that matchup, and all of the Zeldas that I fight have been very good.

EDIT: I main Falco and Charizard.