Moveset Speculation and Discussion Thread

[meowmere]

Welp... I finished calculating Corrin's speed with the video clip at 3:03 given by meowmere . Corrin run for 16 frames before entering jumpsquat, so I divided the run speed tier list in 8, and make them run for 16 frames. And guys, it's way beyond disappointing. I have no words... I really hope it's not his real speed. It can't be. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

@PommePatate Well, all we can do now is hope that you made a mistake or that they will tweak it. If you really want you could take other clips from the trailer and compare them to make sure you didn't make a mistake. But please, only if it's really your desire, I don't want anyone to do that kind of stuff if we could just wait until February.

For convenience purposes I collected a few time stamps that belong the video I included in one of my earlier posts:
0:53
1:05 (quite short; Corrins run from Donkey Kong to Mario & Link)
1:12 (It's so short that I don't think you could work with that)
2:07
...and the two fighting clips at 6:47 and 6:55

EDIT: Here's the video again:

I personally don't quite think their running speed is as slow as PommePatate's experiment showed (well, at least I hope so), because normally, when a character is slow, the movement of his limbs is also quite slow, but in Corrin's case, the limb movement is actually quite fast (maybe the video is accelerated?).

But even if Corrin really is that slow, he still has many good things going for him.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Welp... I finished calculating Corrin's speed with the video clip at 3:03 given by meowmere . Corrin run for 16 frames before entering jumpsquat, so I divided the run speed tier list in 8, and made them run for 16 frames. And guys, it's way beyond disappointing. I have no words... I really hope it's not his real speed. It can't be. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

This, combined with his bad airspeed, makes Corrin have terrible mobility.
Disappointing

 

[Nu~]

If that really is the case, I may have to reconsider...

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Mobility isn't the be all end all of a character. Example: Ness.
Quit making assumptions.

 

[Nu~]

Mobility isn't the be all end all of a character. Example: Ness.
Quit making assumptions.

Never said it was. I personally don't want to use a character with bad overall mobility. Hence why I don't use characters like ness lol

So who is making the assumptions again?

Edit: and before you say pacman, his aerial mobility is good. And I have a slight preference to aerial mobility than to ground mobility.

 

[Planty]

I don't think the horrid mobility will matter too much. The reach on her attacks lets her control space quite well, regardless. I truly doubt that this character will have a bad neutral.

 

[Zult]

Welp... I finished calculating Corrin's speed with the video clip at 3:03 given by meowmere . Corrin run for 16 frames before entering jumpsquat, so I divided the run speed tier list in 8, and made them run for 16 frames. And guys, it's way beyond disappointing. I have no words... I really hope it's not his real speed. It can't be. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

If this is true, then he's faster than Olimar. Well I went into training mode and ran with Olimar back and forth. Olimar doesn't seem slow to me. So if he's a bit faster than Olimar then I'm happy. Really anything besides Robin's or Ganandorf's running speed and I'll be happy.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

What I'm more curious about is his air speed, ground speed can be helped with Dragon's Lunch and his Dash Attack.

 

[meowmere]

What I'm more curious about is his air speed, ground speed can be helped with Dragon's Lunch and his Dash Attack.

How does his dash attack help his ground speed?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

How does his dash attack help his ground speed?

It launches him forward.

 

[Zult]

Also things tend to look slower in trailers for whatever reason. I thought Cloud was going to be a slowish character like ike with mediocre frame data on his aerials. He's way faster than I imagined. So I wouldn't be too worried.

 

[Pedker]

Welp... I finished calculating Corrin's speed with the video clip at 3:03 given by meowmere . Corrin run for 16 frames before entering jumpsquat, so I divided the run speed tier list in 8, and made them run for 16 frames. And guys, it's way beyond disappointing. I have no words... I really hope it's not his real speed. It can't be. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Damn, that looks very professionally done too. If Corrin runs slightly faster than Olimar, though, then that means that he runs slightly faster than ZSS walks. Yay!

I hope that he's faster when he comes out, but in all honestly I don't think it's going to be a huge hindrance to the character: he already has some great-looking tools, like (what looks like) a great short-hop, (hopefully) an auto-spacing/safe on shield B-air, and his entire Side-B game, which seems to come out immediately if you jump first.

 

[meowmere]

... and his entire Side-B game, which seems to come out immediately if you jump first.

Well, we honestly know nothing about his side-b. As much as it hurts to say, I think it seems more like a gimmick than anything else. It's hard to make any assumptions, though.

 

[Pedker]

Well, we honestly know nothing about his side-b. As much as it hurts to say, I think it seems more like a gimmick than anything else. It's hard to make any assumptions, though.

I feel like if you pin a solid one, there's a chance that the cancel option could have a low enough landing-lag to be able to cover any tech option, perhaps except for roll back, because of his run speed lol

 

[Patriot Duck]

not many people are willing to pay for a character that's not even viable.

90% of the smash bros fanbase would shell out cold hard cash for Pichu.

You've got a point though. Sakurai isn't going to let a $5 character be bad.

 

[Altair357]

I feel like if you pin a solid one, there's a chance that the cancel option could have a low enough landing-lag to be able to cover any tech option, perhaps except for roll back, because of his run speed lol

Eh, fsmash could probably cover it.

EDIT: Also, that run speed isn't slow, lol.

 

[Pedker]

Eh, fsmash could probably cover it.

EDIT: Also, that run speed isn't slow, lol.

Maybe it can... you might also have to foxtrot into it. Speaking of, I hope his foxtrot is really good like all the other FE characters.

Yeah, the run speed is definitely manageable. I mean it's not Robin speed so it's cool lol

 

[Zult]

I hope his fox trot is as good as Cloud's :d

 

[Mechaglacier]

https://youtu.be/P-QJO_0k634?t=2148

CommunityGame has upscaled it to 60fps for every trailer so hopefully this helps us with possibly more precise frame data

 

[meowmere]

CommunityGame has upscaled it to 60fps for every trailer so hopefully this helps us with possibly more precise frame data

I'm not an expert at this but I'm pretty sure you can't just upscale 30fps to 60fps. Well, you can, but it won't make a difference.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm probably going to stop analyzing his speed and wait until he comes out. I tried again on the Pac-Man clip, and the result were a lot different. Since we have a full run speed clip (which I trust more because I don't see why Sakurai would edit the speed except for the comical effect, when it's the only good footage we have on his speed and he probably used it to show us his speed better than in 10 frames mini-clips) with this footage and not an initial dash, this are the results:

Corrin runs for 20-21 frames in this section of the stage. Sonic runs for 13 frames, Lucina runs for 18 frames, Mario for 24 frames. This gave me a short window, and after further testing, Corrin's speed looks very similar to Pit, at least between Lucina and Mario. I hope that still fits the ZSS theory of Pedker .

It's a good speed IMO, and fit more the agile idea the trailer was showing.

Also, on the Smash Direct @28:24, there is a better view of Corrin's uair and how he snaps the ledge with upb.

 

[meowmere]

It would also be interesting to know Corrin's jump height. I couldn't find any clip that clearly showed his maximum height. Corrin jumps many times during the gameplay scenes, but it's really difficult to figure out whether Corrin jumps as high as he can or not.

 

[Zult]

His up b snaps. Thank goodness. We won't have a Cloud issue. I'll make a gfy of it.

Edit:

 

[meowmere]

His up b snaps. Thank goodness. We won't have a Cloud issue. I'll make a gfy of it.

Edit:

His uair looks pretty laggy to me
Are his other moves laggy as well?

 

[Zult]

His uair looks pretty laggy to me
Are his other moves laggy as well?

His tilts are pretty much lagless according to the trailer.

 

[alguidrag]

Maybe is just his animation returning to normal fall, i think he can move inside this, i think other characters have the same thing

 

[meowmere]

Maybe is just his animation returning to normal fall, i think he can move inside this, i think other characters have the same thing

Sounds like a good explanation to me.

His tilts are pretty much lagless according to the trailer.

Good to know, but I aerials are more important. We'll see.

 

[Zult]

Ok, just tried Lucina's up air (which has the same exact animation) and Lucina can't act out of doing that backwards flip thing. So up air will probably be laggy unless Corrin is special and can act out of it. So Corrin most likely isn't getting an up air you can juggle with. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Edit: On the bright side, Lucina's fast fall uair is pretty good and has low end lag. Corrin's fast fall uair might be a great combo starter.

 

[Mechaglacier]

I'm not an expert at this but I'm pretty sure you can't just upscale 30fps to 60fps. Well, you can, but it won't make a difference.

we can try

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Edit: On the bright side, Lucina's fast fall uair is pretty good and has low end lag. Corrin's fast fall uair might be a great combo starter.

I'm glad you noticed that. Both Lucina and Marth's Uairs (which are just about the same move) set up everything from grabs, uairs, even tipper Fsmash. I would imaging Corrin would benefit in a similar manner assuming his landing lag isnt too bad

 

[Nu~]

The trailer certainly made it seem like it had a good amount of hitlag, so I would expect it to hit pretty hard. Maybe it's a potent kill move?

Edit: I'm not sure if this is already known, but at 6:59 http://youtu.be/zcBPqixaJLw Corrin is shown to execute dragon lunge without the initial jump forwards. It seems that if you are already in the air, you don't hop forward.

This can be VERY fun to punish someone with out of a sh or even full hop.

 

[Deleted member]

Edit: I'm not sure if this is already known, but at 6:59 http://youtu.be/zcBPqixaJLw Corrin is shown to execute dragon lunge without the initial jump forwards. It seems that if you are already in the air, you don't hop forward.

This can be VERY fun to punish someone with out of a sh or even full hop.

Yes and it comes out on frame 6 in the air, so really fast. Grounded version is useful when you get a roll read or something similar, otherwise the airborne version looks much more interesting.

 

[Wolfheart77]

I'm hoping for a fairly fast run speed; does anyone have air mobility rates? I do a lot of approaches in the air and I'd love to have Corrin in my comfort zone.

 

[Zionaze]

Im guessing for side b, You activate it by holding B and when you release it you get the stab.

 

[NachoOfCheese]

Edit: I'm not sure if this is already known, but at 6:59 http://youtu.be/zcBPqixaJLw Corrin is shown to execute dragon lunge without the initial jump forwards. It seems that if you are already in the air, you don't hop forward.

This can be VERY fun to punish someone with out of a sh or even full hop.

Okay that actually looks REALLY fast :o

 

[Patriot Duck]

It seems to me like Corrin is designed to have fantastic range and good frame data but poor mobility, if our estimations are to be believed. This is a strange combination of attributes. The closest character to this archetype I can think of is Pit, with his great frame data and range, but poor air speed and middling dash speed. Pit is also considered viable, so there's that.

That being said, Corrin has to be released before we can properly assess their viability.

 

[Deleted member]

It seems to me like Corrin is designed to have fantastic range and good frame data but poor mobility, if our estimations are to be believed. This is a strange combination of attributes. The closest character to this archetype I can think of is Pit, with his great frame data and range, but poor air speed and middling dash speed. Pit is also considered viable, so there's that.

That being said, Corrin has to be released before we can properly assess their viability.

Well as long as Corrin doesn't have the "Pit problem" of having a practically-even-across-the-board MU spread (as I've heard, that is, Pit never loses terribly hard but doesn't win hard either) and as long she doesn't have any "this character completely invalidates me" MUs she could very well be top 15, considering that Pit sits right around there currently (just outside IIRC).

 

[Pedker]

It would also be interesting to know Corrin's jump height. I couldn't find any clip that clearly showed his maximum height. Corrin jumps many times during the gameplay scenes, but it's really difficult to figure out whether Corrin jumps as high as he can or not.

Returning to jump height, I found a nice clip, at 3:06. Corrin's full-hop puts his torso at the level of the high platform in battlefield.

It should be about the same height as Sheik's full-hop.

 

[Zult]

Returning to jump height, I found a nice clip, at 3:06. Corrin's full-hop puts his torso at the level of the high platform in battlefield.

It should be about the same height as Sheik's full-hop.

That's actually pretty good. That's a bit more than Lucina's and on par with ZSS'.

 

[Delzethin]

That's actually pretty good. That's a bit more than Lucina's and on par with ZSS'.

Interesting. Fun fact: Shulk is the only swordsman in the game so far with above average jump height. If Corrin's full hop is on par with Sheik's, it's also as high as Shulk's. ZSS goes just a little higher with her full hop, meaning if Corrin's matches hers, he'll have the highest first jump of any swordsman.

And that's on top of a short hop that a few prominent people have already called "incredible".

I don't know how much a high full hop helps, but it does seem like it'll make juggling easier.