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Zwei Striker
Smash Apprentice
-2 but it's only because of the counterpicks imo, if G&W wasn't so good at pretty much any of those, it think we could call it a -1. I think that's only me, though.
Esotera
Smash Apprentice
Alright, I'm comfortable talking about this MU because I play constantly against a pretty good G&W.
Let's start with his broken bair. .A lot of times I find that they will spam bair a lot, and this is kind of hard to deal with.... Sometimes you can shield it all the way through,then grab it, but if they space it correctly you're going to be caught in a hell of a lot of lag. Another good way to stop the bair is to predict when they will SH (or even better, FH), then dash underneath them. We have very good options when underneath G&W. This will often lead to some shff uair, a very safe attack, even against his SF or FF dair. Another option once underneath G&W is pivot grab. I've been using this a lot more lately, and it punishes Dair and Bair pretty well. Remember about his aerial mobility though, don't whiff. SDI this ****** away from him or behind him.
Dair- Okay, this move sucks against Lucas, IMO. Always be ready to read a FF Dair into Usmash. It *****. Also, G&W likes to camp a platform with you under it with his DAir... this is a really good situation for us because it is entirely punishable even though it goes through the platform. Uair ***** this move, it even out prioritizes it if space correctly (uairing from 7 o'clock or 8, 4 or 5 if the key is 6 o'clock). Shield grabbing this move is hella easy, just wait for the second hit once he's on the ground. Be careful when you're close to the ledge, don't shield this move. It will push you off and you don't really want to be on the ledge in this MU. I've already discussed pivot grab. Remember that dthrow -> utilt combo is gauranteed until 23%, and if not DI'd correctly, then I've gotten it as high as 42%. Extremely useful and sets people on tilt. G&W loves to be in the air, just try to stay under him and you're golden.
Uair: ok this move ***** us. Absolutely one of his best options against us. When we are above g&W, we are at his mercy. Try to airdodge through the windbox if possible. If you fail to, DO NOT air dodge again... h is aerial mobility and his hitboxes are too big to not get punished. He will also dash under you and start charging smashes. Don't get hit or say goodbye to your stuck. If you have good horizontal momentum, dair becomes very disjointed and beats nair. Don't fall into a bair trap by using dair at the wrong time however. Like I said, coming from above G&W is a terrible position.Try to avoid it at all costs. He can also go under us and uair while we're upb'ing... extremely annoying and I've only recovered from that a few times. He can also spam uair beneath the stage, and you can get "hit"by the windboxes and it refreshes his moves. So stupid.
Nair: his nair is pretty good, however his planking with nair is beaten with a well spaced dsmash, but if you miss it then they get an easy punish with fair. Careful around the edges. SDI away or below G&W depending on your position.
Fair- very good for punishing, he'll tech chase you with this if you start teching his dthrows. He can punish any laggy moves while he's on the edge and you're near it, so be careful. If you come in above him around 2-3 o'clock, then our fair will beat his. This is a big in your face move, perfect for the obnoxious playstyle of G&W. It combos really well at low percentages, can kill us at high percentages. If hit with the weak spot, then you can counter it with sh uair, nair, ftilt, fsmash if you're lucky. DI behind him after getting his by the weak spot and you get a free punish. DI up if you're in kill percent.
UpB: his upB is godly. I think he's rated like 2nd safest on the ledge or something, behind MK of course. He can get out of a lot of strings and follow ups with this move, and if he times it right he can catch you in it to. The one I always play against loves to upB, ff nair, dj ff nair. It's a huge hit box, but just shield it. The great part is that if uses it on stage, he's above you, which is exactly where you want him to be. Don't challenge his ledge game unless you know you can read him and have lots of experience versus G&W. It's possible to **** with him, but the odds aren't in your favor.
sideB- not that great, pretty laggy, he'll go for 1-2 a match. Unless he's feelin' the swag. His smashes are scarier.
DownB- the bucket. This one is really dependent on the way G&W plays it. If you spam pk fre, he will bucket it eventually. A full pk fire bucket seems to KO around 75% with good DI. However, if he buckets, spam that pikafire and go for a fsmash kill. No bucket makes him die much sooner. This is one reason pk freeze is out in this matchup. If gets one, then you're ****ed if he gets that bucket full. The lag on the bucket is huge, you can score a kill off of a bucket pretty easily if he lands on stage. Remember that the third one has much less lag so don't try to feed him a 3rd one last stock to get a kill. He can bucket our up B, he doesn't even have to be close. It's a killer gimp. Wavezapping is very important in this match for this reason alone.
F-Smash, U-smash: putting these two in the same category because I really think they serve the same purpose. They have big start-up time, but come down pretty fast when he lets go of it. They both linger, fsmash lingering longer, don't try to spotdodge it. Jump behind him when he's charging, don't every try to challenge it unless you are waiting for the end of the charge. PK fire doesn't punish these two moves either, the helmet and torch act as protection for him. DI into the corner pocket (Right or left for Usmash, Up for Fsmash) You can also move a little bit during the hit stun animation, this can save your life.
D-smash- really effective against us because of our great short hop game. If he reads an aggressive short hop from you, he can charge this. d-smash will beat our approaches, it protects G&W from pfire, and it has huge effing knockback. Remember to tech the dthrow, the timing is easy for Lucas, otherwise he will just d-throw to dsmash for kills all day. It'll grab you out of sh and send you straight up. You can airdodge through it though for an f-tilt punish. If hit in the middle of the attack, near G&W, DI to the right or left; if hit by the mallets themselves on the outside, DI up up up
Ftilit- chair is used for some odd spacing, he really shouldn't be getting it on you, but G&W is crazy and they throw these in for mixups, which is effective. Shieldgrab, rising dair. Our ftilt is faster, so you shouldn't be close enough to him for this to come into play very often. He has better options against us. Remember that it can kill, though. DI up
Dtilit- so effing good against us. Try to recover far from the ledge, because if he spams this over the ledge than it ***** all our stuff. If G&W is running to the ledge, makes sure you get there AND pull up from zair before he can get to you. If you ledgehop, it will **** you. I find that dropping down, then going around into fair, nair, uair, or airdodge to be some of the safest recovery, but it's all about mixing it up, as Mekos will certainly till you. SDI and DI away
utilt- annoying move. Combos into itself at low percentages, into nair and uair. Airdodge and DI left or right to not get wombo combo'd. Kills at high percents. DI up and away
Now I'll talk about the MU in different situations.
Like before, our best position is under G&W. While under him, chase him around with shff uair, usmash, pivot grab, pkfire. Pkfire is pretty safe if they are landing in front of you, they almost never bucket it when the pressure is on, so predicting how they will land is crucial.
On the ground, we **** G&W with our short hop game and faster moves. If we get inside, ftilt and utlit will get him. If he is spamming dtilt, then sh nair, fair, or uair to punish. if he's running out you, pivot grab, wavebounced pkfire, retreating fair are all good options.
So the bair wall comes into play once the G&W realizes he has no chance on the ground... Punishing and baiting bairs is the key to this match up i think. Shield grab, pivot grab are both great options. He'll upB after you shield the last one (6 attacks by the way, there's one at the end when he lands on the ground), and you won't be able to punish him with shieldgrab, but you're put in an advantageous position by him being above you.
G&W strength in this match up is that he out-prioritizes us hella hard... We have to space our moves perfectly. His bair, nair, and huge smash hitboxes make it so that we have to be very careful, and he ***** us offstage with all of his tools. I'm just going to put down random things I know about the MU now.
Dthrow will kill around 140-143%
When at percents around 110-140, pummeling a lot will often cause them to try to mash out and if they are DI'ing the wrong way at the end, bthrow will get us a surprise kill if at the edge of the stage.
rising Dair is a very good mixup, while incorporating pkfires, uairs, nairs and fairs. Read him when he comes to grab you... it's really important.
Don't shield grab his smashes... They push you too far away.
Avoid the non-stage areas at all costs.
G&W is a very mind-game oriented character because of his huge lingering hitboxes and his mobility. Don't let him get in your head.
Now for our options:
bair: meh. It's good because it's disjointed, FH bair bair is good for spacing kinda, but his aerials beat this if spaced. Good for the odd hitbox when movig around in the air. I've gotten a few spikes as well, but they REALLY have to not be expecting it, because obviously upB beats it. UpB beats all aerials.
fair- probably tied for 2nd best with nair in this matchup. Pretty disjointed, but the the hitbox is small and not very long. Our fair will beat his if spaced correctly, but his nair and bair will beat our fair. Good for punishes after ftilt, follow up from dthrow at early-mid percents. This move also combos into itself at early-mid percents. Decent move, but don't spam it.
nair- this is a good move in most mach ups... if you get in on on G&W, then this will come out faster than his aerials and you can rack up tons of damage... combos into ftilt, fsmash, usmash, uair, it's our combo move. You guys already know this, though. A lot of times G&W will dj after nair sends him up and come back with dair. shield grab/pivot grab that shiet. A good move, but be careful because it has very low priority. He can even grab you, basically at any point during it.
uair- best aerial for this matchup, I think. uair beats his dair, combos into itself, kills at 160~ fresh, and is generally a high priority move. Sometimes you can get an uair in the mid percents (50-70) then ff to usmash... A lot of people like to DI towards you when they are falling down, so take advantage of that.
Dair- pretty good move, idk this might be with nair and fair too... I guess we have decent aerials, but their priority is just a lot smaller than G&W's. Rising and falling dair are good, but be careful because a bair will beat it straight out.
Speaking of bair, I have to emphasize how important SDI is in this matchup. You HAVE to SDI G&W's moves to win this match. If he is falling and bairing, SDI up and away. If he's rising, down and away. Most importantly, away. Instead of getting hit 6 times and being in a bad position, you can be hit twice and be put right behind him for an easy punish. There's a lot of hitstun for Usmash and fsmash, You can get a small amount of movement during you SDI that could possibly save you, so that's important too. As for nair, it really depends on which part of it hits you and which direction you and him are going. Just remember to SDI away from his hitboxes. This is literally the most important part of playing G&W, especially because we have such a bad MU against him. I would venture to say, after watching all of Mekos' videos, the thing that impressed me the most was his DI and SDI... he lives so much longer than any other Lucas I've seen, and the reason is DI and SDI. DO it. If you don't do it already, try to consciously work on it everytime you play. It will make you a better player so fast.
Fsmash- great move, kills early, hopefully he won't get the bucket out... not much to say
Dsmash- another good move in this MU because of G&W's silly aerial movement. turnaround dsmash is a funny mixup because it also hits behind you... a well spaced dsmash near the ledge will kill him if he tries to do his nair funny business beneath the ledge, but be careful if you miss because you will eat a ss fair everytime.
Usmash- great against G&W, if only because of his dair. You can even sneak under a FH bair and jump cancel -> usmash for a sneaky kill. Just read to use this move, I don't think I need to really talk about it too much. G&W/s playtsyle makes this move a good option for punishes.
ftilt- always a great move, if you get inside his wall then this move is great, it's fast, got good shield pressure. His dtitlt outranges it though, so be careful
dtilt- meh, use it for locks the the occasional mixup on the ground game, but use it sparingly
utlit- always catches people of guard for some reason. It's got a weird hitbox that extends to the side, so it's really good for close encounters and it sends him up, exactly where you want him. This move combos into itself and into upair pretty handily, and even the occasional usmash. Don't count this move out.
Upb- not a good move in this MU because of bucket. You can bait a bucket and try to spike offstage from the lag, but if you mess up he can get 3 charges from a single PKT. Don't try to edgeguard G&W too much unless he's far away from the ledge. And I mean far.
sideB- I really am not sure about this, I think this is where the debate is in this MU. To spam or not to spam? 3 pkfires will kill around 75%, so it's still a decent kill move. The spill is a bit smaller though, so that's good. If he is spamming bair than this is a good choice because it will often hit him even if the turtle eats the projectile. Use at disgression and how good the G&W is at bucketting them. Remember that the first and 2nd bucket have huge lag, but the 3rd does not.
downB-
used only for mixing up your recovery, especially when descending. If you use this 1-3 times it really messes up people's rhythm and gives you a bit of breathing space.
jab- I forgot his jab in the earlier version, so I'll put it here too. His jba is good, sets him up for ditlt, fsmash, hyphen usmash. DI away and shield his follow up. Ours is good, it combos out of nair obviously. It's fast, its fun, yaddayadda. Not too special because you won't be that close to G&W too often, but not a move to be ignored.
I really wanted to include that bit about SDI and DI, because they are so important not only in this MU, but many others (cough mk cough). I went back and put DI options by his attacks. Overall I think this is definitely in G&W favor... 40:60 I think. Maybe even 55:45, still refining my play. I'll revise this later on the year when I get better. Hope this helped.you all.
Let's start with his broken bair. .A lot of times I find that they will spam bair a lot, and this is kind of hard to deal with.... Sometimes you can shield it all the way through,then grab it, but if they space it correctly you're going to be caught in a hell of a lot of lag. Another good way to stop the bair is to predict when they will SH (or even better, FH), then dash underneath them. We have very good options when underneath G&W. This will often lead to some shff uair, a very safe attack, even against his SF or FF dair. Another option once underneath G&W is pivot grab. I've been using this a lot more lately, and it punishes Dair and Bair pretty well. Remember about his aerial mobility though, don't whiff. SDI this ****** away from him or behind him.
Dair- Okay, this move sucks against Lucas, IMO. Always be ready to read a FF Dair into Usmash. It *****. Also, G&W likes to camp a platform with you under it with his DAir... this is a really good situation for us because it is entirely punishable even though it goes through the platform. Uair ***** this move, it even out prioritizes it if space correctly (uairing from 7 o'clock or 8, 4 or 5 if the key is 6 o'clock). Shield grabbing this move is hella easy, just wait for the second hit once he's on the ground. Be careful when you're close to the ledge, don't shield this move. It will push you off and you don't really want to be on the ledge in this MU. I've already discussed pivot grab. Remember that dthrow -> utilt combo is gauranteed until 23%, and if not DI'd correctly, then I've gotten it as high as 42%. Extremely useful and sets people on tilt. G&W loves to be in the air, just try to stay under him and you're golden.
Uair: ok this move ***** us. Absolutely one of his best options against us. When we are above g&W, we are at his mercy. Try to airdodge through the windbox if possible. If you fail to, DO NOT air dodge again... h is aerial mobility and his hitboxes are too big to not get punished. He will also dash under you and start charging smashes. Don't get hit or say goodbye to your stuck. If you have good horizontal momentum, dair becomes very disjointed and beats nair. Don't fall into a bair trap by using dair at the wrong time however. Like I said, coming from above G&W is a terrible position.Try to avoid it at all costs. He can also go under us and uair while we're upb'ing... extremely annoying and I've only recovered from that a few times. He can also spam uair beneath the stage, and you can get "hit"by the windboxes and it refreshes his moves. So stupid.
Nair: his nair is pretty good, however his planking with nair is beaten with a well spaced dsmash, but if you miss it then they get an easy punish with fair. Careful around the edges. SDI away or below G&W depending on your position.
Fair- very good for punishing, he'll tech chase you with this if you start teching his dthrows. He can punish any laggy moves while he's on the edge and you're near it, so be careful. If you come in above him around 2-3 o'clock, then our fair will beat his. This is a big in your face move, perfect for the obnoxious playstyle of G&W. It combos really well at low percentages, can kill us at high percentages. If hit with the weak spot, then you can counter it with sh uair, nair, ftilt, fsmash if you're lucky. DI behind him after getting his by the weak spot and you get a free punish. DI up if you're in kill percent.
UpB: his upB is godly. I think he's rated like 2nd safest on the ledge or something, behind MK of course. He can get out of a lot of strings and follow ups with this move, and if he times it right he can catch you in it to. The one I always play against loves to upB, ff nair, dj ff nair. It's a huge hit box, but just shield it. The great part is that if uses it on stage, he's above you, which is exactly where you want him to be. Don't challenge his ledge game unless you know you can read him and have lots of experience versus G&W. It's possible to **** with him, but the odds aren't in your favor.
sideB- not that great, pretty laggy, he'll go for 1-2 a match. Unless he's feelin' the swag. His smashes are scarier.
DownB- the bucket. This one is really dependent on the way G&W plays it. If you spam pk fre, he will bucket it eventually. A full pk fire bucket seems to KO around 75% with good DI. However, if he buckets, spam that pikafire and go for a fsmash kill. No bucket makes him die much sooner. This is one reason pk freeze is out in this matchup. If gets one, then you're ****ed if he gets that bucket full. The lag on the bucket is huge, you can score a kill off of a bucket pretty easily if he lands on stage. Remember that the third one has much less lag so don't try to feed him a 3rd one last stock to get a kill. He can bucket our up B, he doesn't even have to be close. It's a killer gimp. Wavezapping is very important in this match for this reason alone.
F-Smash, U-smash: putting these two in the same category because I really think they serve the same purpose. They have big start-up time, but come down pretty fast when he lets go of it. They both linger, fsmash lingering longer, don't try to spotdodge it. Jump behind him when he's charging, don't every try to challenge it unless you are waiting for the end of the charge. PK fire doesn't punish these two moves either, the helmet and torch act as protection for him. DI into the corner pocket (Right or left for Usmash, Up for Fsmash) You can also move a little bit during the hit stun animation, this can save your life.
D-smash- really effective against us because of our great short hop game. If he reads an aggressive short hop from you, he can charge this. d-smash will beat our approaches, it protects G&W from pfire, and it has huge effing knockback. Remember to tech the dthrow, the timing is easy for Lucas, otherwise he will just d-throw to dsmash for kills all day. It'll grab you out of sh and send you straight up. You can airdodge through it though for an f-tilt punish. If hit in the middle of the attack, near G&W, DI to the right or left; if hit by the mallets themselves on the outside, DI up up up
Ftilit- chair is used for some odd spacing, he really shouldn't be getting it on you, but G&W is crazy and they throw these in for mixups, which is effective. Shieldgrab, rising dair. Our ftilt is faster, so you shouldn't be close enough to him for this to come into play very often. He has better options against us. Remember that it can kill, though. DI up
Dtilit- so effing good against us. Try to recover far from the ledge, because if he spams this over the ledge than it ***** all our stuff. If G&W is running to the ledge, makes sure you get there AND pull up from zair before he can get to you. If you ledgehop, it will **** you. I find that dropping down, then going around into fair, nair, uair, or airdodge to be some of the safest recovery, but it's all about mixing it up, as Mekos will certainly till you. SDI and DI away
utilt- annoying move. Combos into itself at low percentages, into nair and uair. Airdodge and DI left or right to not get wombo combo'd. Kills at high percents. DI up and away
Now I'll talk about the MU in different situations.
Like before, our best position is under G&W. While under him, chase him around with shff uair, usmash, pivot grab, pkfire. Pkfire is pretty safe if they are landing in front of you, they almost never bucket it when the pressure is on, so predicting how they will land is crucial.
On the ground, we **** G&W with our short hop game and faster moves. If we get inside, ftilt and utlit will get him. If he is spamming dtilt, then sh nair, fair, or uair to punish. if he's running out you, pivot grab, wavebounced pkfire, retreating fair are all good options.
So the bair wall comes into play once the G&W realizes he has no chance on the ground... Punishing and baiting bairs is the key to this match up i think. Shield grab, pivot grab are both great options. He'll upB after you shield the last one (6 attacks by the way, there's one at the end when he lands on the ground), and you won't be able to punish him with shieldgrab, but you're put in an advantageous position by him being above you.
G&W strength in this match up is that he out-prioritizes us hella hard... We have to space our moves perfectly. His bair, nair, and huge smash hitboxes make it so that we have to be very careful, and he ***** us offstage with all of his tools. I'm just going to put down random things I know about the MU now.
Dthrow will kill around 140-143%
When at percents around 110-140, pummeling a lot will often cause them to try to mash out and if they are DI'ing the wrong way at the end, bthrow will get us a surprise kill if at the edge of the stage.
rising Dair is a very good mixup, while incorporating pkfires, uairs, nairs and fairs. Read him when he comes to grab you... it's really important.
Don't shield grab his smashes... They push you too far away.
Avoid the non-stage areas at all costs.
G&W is a very mind-game oriented character because of his huge lingering hitboxes and his mobility. Don't let him get in your head.
Now for our options:
bair: meh. It's good because it's disjointed, FH bair bair is good for spacing kinda, but his aerials beat this if spaced. Good for the odd hitbox when movig around in the air. I've gotten a few spikes as well, but they REALLY have to not be expecting it, because obviously upB beats it. UpB beats all aerials.
fair- probably tied for 2nd best with nair in this matchup. Pretty disjointed, but the the hitbox is small and not very long. Our fair will beat his if spaced correctly, but his nair and bair will beat our fair. Good for punishes after ftilt, follow up from dthrow at early-mid percents. This move also combos into itself at early-mid percents. Decent move, but don't spam it.
nair- this is a good move in most mach ups... if you get in on on G&W, then this will come out faster than his aerials and you can rack up tons of damage... combos into ftilt, fsmash, usmash, uair, it's our combo move. You guys already know this, though. A lot of times G&W will dj after nair sends him up and come back with dair. shield grab/pivot grab that shiet. A good move, but be careful because it has very low priority. He can even grab you, basically at any point during it.
uair- best aerial for this matchup, I think. uair beats his dair, combos into itself, kills at 160~ fresh, and is generally a high priority move. Sometimes you can get an uair in the mid percents (50-70) then ff to usmash... A lot of people like to DI towards you when they are falling down, so take advantage of that.
Dair- pretty good move, idk this might be with nair and fair too... I guess we have decent aerials, but their priority is just a lot smaller than G&W's. Rising and falling dair are good, but be careful because a bair will beat it straight out.
Speaking of bair, I have to emphasize how important SDI is in this matchup. You HAVE to SDI G&W's moves to win this match. If he is falling and bairing, SDI up and away. If he's rising, down and away. Most importantly, away. Instead of getting hit 6 times and being in a bad position, you can be hit twice and be put right behind him for an easy punish. There's a lot of hitstun for Usmash and fsmash, You can get a small amount of movement during you SDI that could possibly save you, so that's important too. As for nair, it really depends on which part of it hits you and which direction you and him are going. Just remember to SDI away from his hitboxes. This is literally the most important part of playing G&W, especially because we have such a bad MU against him. I would venture to say, after watching all of Mekos' videos, the thing that impressed me the most was his DI and SDI... he lives so much longer than any other Lucas I've seen, and the reason is DI and SDI. DO it. If you don't do it already, try to consciously work on it everytime you play. It will make you a better player so fast.
Fsmash- great move, kills early, hopefully he won't get the bucket out... not much to say
Dsmash- another good move in this MU because of G&W's silly aerial movement. turnaround dsmash is a funny mixup because it also hits behind you... a well spaced dsmash near the ledge will kill him if he tries to do his nair funny business beneath the ledge, but be careful if you miss because you will eat a ss fair everytime.
Usmash- great against G&W, if only because of his dair. You can even sneak under a FH bair and jump cancel -> usmash for a sneaky kill. Just read to use this move, I don't think I need to really talk about it too much. G&W/s playtsyle makes this move a good option for punishes.
ftilt- always a great move, if you get inside his wall then this move is great, it's fast, got good shield pressure. His dtitlt outranges it though, so be careful
dtilt- meh, use it for locks the the occasional mixup on the ground game, but use it sparingly
utlit- always catches people of guard for some reason. It's got a weird hitbox that extends to the side, so it's really good for close encounters and it sends him up, exactly where you want him. This move combos into itself and into upair pretty handily, and even the occasional usmash. Don't count this move out.
Upb- not a good move in this MU because of bucket. You can bait a bucket and try to spike offstage from the lag, but if you mess up he can get 3 charges from a single PKT. Don't try to edgeguard G&W too much unless he's far away from the ledge. And I mean far.
sideB- I really am not sure about this, I think this is where the debate is in this MU. To spam or not to spam? 3 pkfires will kill around 75%, so it's still a decent kill move. The spill is a bit smaller though, so that's good. If he is spamming bair than this is a good choice because it will often hit him even if the turtle eats the projectile. Use at disgression and how good the G&W is at bucketting them. Remember that the first and 2nd bucket have huge lag, but the 3rd does not.
downB-
used only for mixing up your recovery, especially when descending. If you use this 1-3 times it really messes up people's rhythm and gives you a bit of breathing space.jab- I forgot his jab in the earlier version, so I'll put it here too. His jba is good, sets him up for ditlt, fsmash, hyphen usmash. DI away and shield his follow up. Ours is good, it combos out of nair obviously. It's fast, its fun, yaddayadda. Not too special because you won't be that close to G&W too often, but not a move to be ignored.
I really wanted to include that bit about SDI and DI, because they are so important not only in this MU, but many others (cough mk cough). I went back and put DI options by his attacks. Overall I think this is definitely in G&W favor... 40:60 I think. Maybe even 55:45, still refining my play. I'll revise this later on the year when I get better. Hope this helped.you all.
KoozyK
Smash Ace
-_- this thread needs to be closed. Mod where u at?
Esotera
Smash Apprentice
Figured since we hadn't started the next one, this was still fair game.
Jamwa
Smash Champion
Edit: lol read Esotera's response, very well done :D
Lukingordex
No Custom Titles Allowed
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Nicely done Esotera :D
But I think it is only +1 for G&W,not +2.
It is just my opinion...
But I think it is only +1 for G&W,not +2.
It is just my opinion...
Esotera
Smash Apprentice
The more I play it, the more frustrating it gets really. I hate having to have to COMPLETELY out play someone, and I feel like the G&W is that kind of MU. They just have so many tools against us. I would give it a +1.5-2 haha
KoozyK
Smash Ace
Mod close this thread please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Esotera
Smash Apprentice
Why are you so worried about threads being closed? There is still discussion going on here, obviously. No need to be unnecessarily bureaucratic.
KoozyK
Smash Ace
we finished this mu months ago. this mu number has already been decided -_-. not tryn to be a douche or anything, im just saying.
Jamwa
Smash Champion
Esotera's input may not have contributed to the MU number but its given me alot of knowledge on the matchup... let the mods decide whether to leave this open for discussion or to close it
KoozyK
Smash Ace
not like we have an active mod, but fair enough
Esotera
Smash Apprentice
The point of the MU discussion is to share knowledge. The MU number is not really that useful. In fact, for Lucas, I would say that having MU numbers are bad because we have such bad match ups lol. I don't really see why any MU thread should be closed... meta changes, yo.
Edit: Went back and added DI and SDI options for his moves, and the options we have for our moves. I'm done, now. I'll come back later in the year and reread and see if I need to revise any of it.
Edit: Went back and added DI and SDI options for his moves, and the options we have for our moves. I'm done, now
. I'll come back later in the year and reread and see if I need to revise any of it.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 16,415
Just sayin' you were bein' pretty douchey.
If someone has something to share, let them share it. It's a shame that any match-up export is closed because any MU input is good or someone asking for help in the MU.
So no, I'm not going to ask for a mod to close this thread.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Feel free to vote on a new thread in the MU center. While I normally have these discussions closed, I won't request it if you want to continue discussion.
It sort of died due to inactivity, though, so a re-poll wouldn't be a bad idea.
And yeah, we never really have a mod in this forum. :/ I wouldn't mind doing it.
It sort of died due to inactivity, though, so a re-poll wouldn't be a bad idea.
And yeah, we never really have a mod in this forum. :/ I wouldn't mind doing it.