Needle Fidget

[saviorslegacy]

So I heard you guys like tech skill.
So I was talking to wasserwipf today and he told me about a new tech that he discovered. We coined it Needle Fidgeting. Basically because Sheik looks like she is having a seizure. Here's a gif providing by wasserwipf.

Now here is what is going on in this gif. As everyone knows Sheik has the ability to cancel her needle charge by air dodging. You can however, charge needles again to cancel the air dodge. This is what is happening in this gif.

Now what we discovered is that you can cancel the air dodge into any B move. This being BF, Vanish, FG and of course as it was already stated, needles.
If you use this in the air this is actually pretty bad since the needle halt your horizontal momentum. When used out of a needle glide however, you get some pretty nice results. Here is what we found.

Needle Glide> Needle Fidget> Airial Vanish Glide

So basically here you get an extended Vanish glide. What makes this a Vanish Glide? Well first lets break down what a Vanish Glide or any glide for that matter is.
You are transferring your run speed into the air when you glide. Your ground momentum becomes airial momentum and you well, glide. This is taking your ground momentum, transferring it into your air momentum, canceling the needles and then transferring that momentum into the Vanish.
It is basically an extension of our normal Vanish Glide.

Inputs are as follows.
dash> needle glide> air dodge> Vanish> you must recover

Needle Glide> Needle Fidget> Bouncing Fish (aka, Fidget Fish)

This is pretty simple. You glide, you kick, you conquer.
You can charge your needles longer to increase the distance.

Inputs are as follows.
dash> needle glide> air dodge> Bouncing Fish> you must recover

Needle Glide> Needle Fidget> Reverse Needle

One of my personal favorites. This allows you to cover people recovering low.
Because the inputs are so difficult wasserwipf and I can barely pull it off. I think I did it correctly once. That being siad, the gif is not perfect. Have fun doing this one guys. Oh, and you have to have your needles charged to 3/4 capacity.
This is basically an easier version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWIboa5zJWI
That one is harder... a lot harder.

Inputs are as follows.
dash> needle glide> air dodge> analog towards the stage> needles> needles again to shoot> you must recover.
Do that in less than a second and you should be good. Try not to use your grenade.

Special Thanks goes to wasserwipf. He made all of these gifs. He learned how to do each tech. He told me about Needle Fidgeting. He is basically awesome.

 

[Tristan_win]

Outstanding.

When wasserwipf show me we could cycled between needle charge, air dodge, needle charge I just thought it was 'niffy' and completely failed to bring this discovery to the next logical step. 'Can we cancel air dodge into other moves?' Well done @ saviorslegacy and of course @ Wasserwipf in finding this and more importantly making it useful.

I personally can't wait to extend the reach of vanish glide, **** looks fantastic.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Oh man, imagine the hype you could generate landing a wallbounced fidget fish in a tournament match. Thanks for giving me something new to practice with Sheik. Picked up.

EDIT: I think I'm missing something. I can't seem to cancel an air dodge into any b moves, needles or otherwise. It looks like you did the tech three times before hitting the ground in the initial .gif, but at that height I could only do it once because my air dodge only seems to be interruptible toward the very end, and even then it's just a few frames.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Oh man, imagine the hype you could generate landing a wallbounced fidget fish in a tournament match. Thanks for giving me something new to practice with Sheik. Picked up.

EDIT: I think I'm missing something. I can't seem to cancel an air dodge into any b moves, needles or otherwise. It looks like you did the tech three times before hitting the ground in the initial .gif, but at that height I could only do it once because my air dodge only seems to be interruptible toward the very end, and even then it's just a few frames.

You are not inputting it fast enough. The timing is very difficult. Try lowering the speed in training mode.

 

[Ori_bro]

This is super exciting news, I will definitely begin testing this and begin looking for implications with it.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

You are not inputting it fast enough. The timing is very difficult. Try lowering the speed in training mode.

What sort of window am I looking for? The very first few frames of the air dodge start-up?

 

[Max Ketchum]

Saviors, ever since Brawl, you've found some fairly cool stuff and given it terrible names LOL

There's gotta be something better than "needle fidget." Fidget is such a terrible word.

 

[_Tree]

Ok, this looks really, really cool, but I have one concern: Isn't the likelihood of this being patched out pretty high, considering something as big as DACUS was removed? I REALLY hope this stays in. I can't believe I have to worry about this.

 

[Orion*]

will just be calling this needle cancels in commentary lmao

good find

 

[Blitzern]

I might remap some buttons so I can do this faster. Great find btw.

 

[saviorslegacy]

What sort of window am I looking for? The very first few frames of the air dodge start-up?

It is very very small and it is directly after you input air dodge.





TO, all of you who made fun of my linguistic skills. I have only ONE thing to say to you.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Figured it out, thanks.

I think there's some other uses to this tech. Maybe not needle fidget specifically, but cancelling a needle charge into a vanish lets you get out some extra needles for free while recovering, or cancelling a needle charge into bouncing fish as a mindgame. Can other character cancel their air dodges with specials or is this something specific to Sheik? Lucario for instance on his aura sphere charge? I tried it, but I didn't seem to work.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Figured it out, thanks.

I think there's some other uses to this tech. Maybe not needle fidget specifically, but cancelling a needle charge into a vanish lets you get out some extra needles for free while recovering, or cancelling a needle charge into bouncing fish as a mindgame. Can other character cancel their air dodges with specials or is this something specific to Sheik? Lucario for instance on his aura sphere charge? I tried it, but I didn't seem to work.

Yeah I tried it with other characters as well and it seemed to be a Sheik only tech. If they do have it the timing on it is so insane you will never be able to do it in a match.

 

[Danimal197]

Between practicing these and wave needle, I'm going to murder so many B buttons....

 

[Shack]

At first I was like meh, but then realized the mind games. It pretty much is needle canceling from melee, you just have to press more buttons. It is really nice that you can cancel into any B move though. Thanks for sharing!

What sort of window am I looking for? The very first few frames of the air dodge start-up?

If it's still not working, remember that he said you need to have the needles charged about 3/4ths of the way. Also you might not be doing the inputs fast enough, it is very tight just like B reversing.

 

[Wasserwipf]

So, with all those questions or lack of clarity and a little more testing on my side i felt like sharing what I know.
Soo, first off, how does the Fidget EXACTLY work? Lets break that down. When Sheik charges needles, she will start with the "Startup Animation". After it, she will do her "Chraging Animation". If you press B again, she will shoot.
Now, out of these 3 animations, ONLY the Charging Animation can be canceled with shielding / airdodging.
Now, when you cancel the CA in the air, sheik will do a (short) "Stop-Charging Animation" before starting the "Airdodge". And thats exactly the key. Your other Special will come out AFTER the SCA and BEFORE the Airdodge. This gives us information about
A. What is the time limit
B. How fast can I fidget again (whats the minimum time the complete process needs)
Now, the timing seems pretty strikt, right? The solution is Buffering. You can Buffer the Airdodge during the Startup Animation (however, this is not necessary, as you sometimes want to needle glide for quite some time before fidget, and then you'll be in the CA anyway...), and during the SCA you'll have to buffer your special. After the SCA ends, instead of airdodging you will special frame perfect.
This means, you dont need to be frame perfect, but you need to be fast enough.

To throw some numbers out: I do not have Framedata. Yet. However, I recorded the footage at 60 FPS. I then converted it into a 20 FPS gif animation. Thats 1/3. In the gif, the animation is about 2 Frames. Times 3, and you get a window of about 6 Frames. Thats less then the landing lagg on fair, but plenty enough for you to input it correctly 99% of the time. No guarantee on the numbers tho, I'm not an expert in this subject. I'll get the correct numbers as soon as i figure out how.

Now with that out of the way, another thing to clarify... why is the fidget useful? Both Fidget fish and the turnaround needle are only flashy and mindgames, thats about it. Fidget>Vanish on the other hand is a completly other topic... but well, let the gifs talk:

Both gifs are exactly 49 frames and Sheiks leaves the platform at frame 9. They should be in sync, and you should see what I want you to see. Just looks at the range! Its waaaaaay better (and as a side note, vanish gliding's range is even shorter...).
This should pretty much explain why the fidget is awesome.

If this still isn't enough, I'm thinking about making a Video about this, where I'll explain everything with good footage and everything, I'll just nee to find some time. For the time being, I hope you can deal with wall of text and gifs.

...as if I'm finished yet. I just wanted to demonstrate another application of Fidget, what I call the diamond jump:

Spoiler

 

[Blitzern]

So, with all those questions or lack of clarity and a little more testing on my side i felt like sharing what I know.
Soo, first off, how does the Fidget EXACTLY work? Lets break that down. When Sheik charges needles, she will start with the "Startup Animation". After it, she will do her "Chraging Animation". If you press B again, she will shoot.
Now, out of these 3 animations, ONLY the Charging Animation can be canceled with shielding / airdodging.
Now, when you cancel the CA in the air, sheik will do a (short) "Stop-Charging Animation" before starting the "Airdodge". And thats exactly the key. Your other Special will come out AFTER the SCA and BEFORE the Airdodge. This gives us information about
A. What is the time limit
B. How fast can I fidget again (whats the minimum time the complete process needs)
Now, the timing seems pretty strikt, right? The solution is Buffering. You can Buffer the Airdodge during the Startup Animation (however, this is not necessary, as you sometimes want to needle glide for quite some time before fidget, and then you'll be in the CA anyway...), and during the SCA you'll have to buffer your special. After the SCA ends, instead of airdodging you will special frame perfect.
This means, you dont need to be frame perfect, but you need to be fast enough.

To throw some numbers out: I do not have Framedata. Yet. However, I recorded the footage at 60 FPS. I then converted it into a 20 FPS gif animation. Thats 1/3. In the gif, the animation is about 2 Frames. Times 3, and you get a window of about 6 Frames. Thats less then the landing lagg on fair, but plenty enough for you to input it correctly 99% of the time. No guarantee on the numbers tho, I'm not an expert in this subject. I'll get the correct numbers as soon as i figure out how.

Now with that out of the way, another thing to clarify... why is the fidget useful? Both Fidget fish and the turnaround needle are only flashy and mindgames, thats about it. Fidget>Vanish on the other hand is a completly other topic... but well, let the gifs talk:

Both gifs are exactly 49 frames and Sheiks leaves the platform at frame 9. They should be in sync, and you should see what I want you to see. Just looks at the range! Its waaaaaay better (and as a side note, vanish gliding's range is even shorter...).
This should pretty much explain why the fidget is awesome.

If this still isn't enough, I'm thinking about making a Video about this, where I'll explain everything with good footage and everything, I'll just nee to find some time. For the time being, I hope you can deal with wall of text and gifs.

...as if I'm finished yet. I just wanted to demonstrate another application of Fidget, what I call the diamond jump:

Spoiler

So to do the diamond jump you b-reverse after needle fidgetting?

 

[Wasserwipf]

So to do the diamond jump you b-reverse after needle fidgetting?

Short hop > B-rev (rising) > Fidget > B-rev again (falling).
The Gif is at 1/2 speed because i cant do it atm at 1.0 with a SH, I can only mange it with a High hop... and don't get your hopes up, I dont think this does anything except looking really cool, but if you want to styl on your opponent, then thats how you do!

 

[Blitzern]

Short hop > B-rev (rising) > Fidget > B-rev again (falling).
The Gif is at 1/2 speed because i cant do it atm at 1.0 with a SH, I can only mange it with a High hop... and don't get your hopes up, I dont think this does anything except looking really cool, but if you want to styl on your opponent, then thats how you do!

Stylin'. That's what its all about.

 

[saviorslegacy]

So, with all those questions or lack of clarity and a little more testing on my side i felt like sharing what I know.
Soo, first off, how does the Fidget EXACTLY work? Lets break that down. When Sheik charges needles, she will start with the "Startup Animation". After it, she will do her "Chraging Animation". If you press B again, she will shoot.
Now, out of these 3 animations, ONLY the Charging Animation can be canceled with shielding / airdodging.
Now, when you cancel the CA in the air, sheik will do a (short) "Stop-Charging Animation" before starting the "Airdodge". And thats exactly the key. Your other Special will come out AFTER the SCA and BEFORE the Airdodge. This gives us information about
A. What is the time limit
B. How fast can I fidget again (whats the minimum time the complete process needs)
Now, the timing seems pretty strikt, right? The solution is Buffering. You can Buffer the Airdodge during the Startup Animation (however, this is not necessary, as you sometimes want to needle glide for quite some time before fidget, and then you'll be in the CA anyway...), and during the SCA you'll have to buffer your special. After the SCA ends, instead of airdodging you will special frame perfect.
This means, you dont need to be frame perfect, but you need to be fast enough.

To throw some numbers out: I do not have Framedata. Yet. However, I recorded the footage at 60 FPS. I then converted it into a 20 FPS gif animation. Thats 1/3. In the gif, the animation is about 2 Frames. Times 3, and you get a window of about 6 Frames. Thats less then the landing lagg on fair, but plenty enough for you to input it correctly 99% of the time. No guarantee on the numbers tho, I'm not an expert in this subject. I'll get the correct numbers as soon as i figure out how.

Now with that out of the way, another thing to clarify... why is the fidget useful? Both Fidget fish and the turnaround needle are only flashy and mindgames, thats about it. Fidget>Vanish on the other hand is a completly other topic... but well, let the gifs talk:

Both gifs are exactly 49 frames and Sheiks leaves the platform at frame 9. They should be in sync, and you should see what I want you to see. Just looks at the range! Its waaaaaay better (and as a side note, vanish gliding's range is even shorter...).
This should pretty much explain why the fidget is awesome.

If this still isn't enough, I'm thinking about making a Video about this, where I'll explain everything with good footage and everything, I'll just nee to find some time. For the time being, I hope you can deal with wall of text and gifs.

...as if I'm finished yet. I just wanted to demonstrate another application of Fidget, what I call the diamond jump:

Spoiler

Good show dude.
Needle fidget> Vanish and normal BF are both so fast we should be able to catch people off guard often.
I do have to disagree on the fidget> B-reverse needle though. That tech can be super useful when edge guarding an opponent that recovers low like Ike. Not only will it interrupt them but it will knock them under the stage making it more difficult/impossible to recover.

 

[Othayuni]

Yooo this fidget noise is BOMBASTIC props to OP for spreading the word about this

 

[Tr4nce]

Hey guys I don't know if this has been said but I was playing around with this and if you cancel the needle charge by airdodging and hit the ground before the airdodge kicks in, you suffer no landing lag what so ever.

Edit: Never mind. Found this elsewhere immediately after posting.

 

[Arbitation]

This is really useful tech, thanks for sharing!