Ness as a Snake Counter

[marcus0103]

I know this may sound ridiculous, but I truly believe that Ness is a counter to Snake. It may be just me, but I never have a problem with a good Snake. Some of the advantages that I see Ness having over Snake are:

1. Vulnerable to Pk Fire since he's sorta heavy;
2. Very easy to spike if he tries to recover from below (Yes, I know that a good Snake will always try to recover from above. But I also know that anything can happen during a match where he MUST recover from below.);
3. Yo-Yo can punish him very easily if you block the F-tilt or AAA combo. Also putting him in the air can go either way since they both have really good aerials.

The only thing that has ever really gave me a problem with Snake was his boost smash and the u-tilt. This is only my opinion, thus I may seem like a complete idiot. Anyway, please prove me wrong (which I probably am anyhow.) Oh well =]

 

[PKNintendo]

Oh well is right. NOBODY counters Snake. (except for DK)

Thats like saying Ness has advantage on Zelda simply because he can absorb DF and DI out of some smashes. You must consider the negatives too.

 

[marcus0103]

I thought Dk counters Mk..?

 

[hippiedude92]

Eh, a decent amount can fight snake but not truly counter him except DK. The people with a superior aerial combat and a decent projectile can take him down but his god-tier broken tilts and awesome ground game makes up for that.

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness can handle Snake. Its not a very bad matchup from my experiences. There's a lot Ness can do.

 

[Neon Ness]

I don't wanna fight Snake when I'm Ness. It's... too traumatic. So, how is DK a Snake counter? I've never heard that before, I'm just interested in seeing how that's possible.

 

[PKSkyler]

Ahhh...I always lose to Snake with Ness. But im still gonna try. Although heres my weird stratagy. First round Ness. If I lose, I bust out Snake vs their Snake.... cause hes my only secondary.....

 

[Gindler]

Thing I like against a snake that's never played a ness before. Dthrow to Dair, works at the edge (then you can use it as a mind game if you so desire). I've gotten a few cheap kill "combos" on snakes and that's really what I rely on to win sadly.

But yeah, Ness is MY snake counter since my main can't really get a kill move on him. And once he's in the air pkt works wonders, but i always jump just incase I wanna pkt2 (mindgames)

 

[swypa101]

i usually use marth in a snake because marths fast and gets all up on snakes grill... but i think that ness is better because u can attack from far

 

[PK Starstorm]

I also agree that ness may be a snake counter.

pk fire can stop his snakedasshing if you use it early enough.
it will be hard for him to camp with his grenades because you can blow them away with psi magnet.
you can bat his side B back at him, and maybe use pk pivot to avoid his ftilt and score a fire bat when he's close

 

[Masky]

Anyone who thinks Ness is at an advantage (making him a counter) to Snake is just being ridiculous or has not played good Snakes... (or is just insanely good? probably not) He probably fares better than some other characters but it's definitely not a match in Ness's favor

 

[PKSkyler]

Anyone who thinks Ness is at an advantage (making him a counter) to Snake is just being ridiculous or has not played good Snakes... (or is just insanely good? probably not) He probably fares better than some other characters but it's definitely not a match in Ness's favor

Agreed.

10chars

 

[Save the Asians]

I see it as David and Goliath. Good points though.

 

[PKSkyler]

I see it as David and Goliath. Good points though.

Then Ness should win, right? (Ness=David...?)

 

[Gindler]

I think the biggest advantage ness has on snake is his quirky play style. Most people don't play a good ness often and I'm sure we all play snakes often. Ness can also attack from afar when high in damage to tack on some extra damage and avoid the dreaded Utilt (my only "spammer" character)

Killing a snake at 50% is fun too, Ness is like the only character that can do that without breaking a shield or gimping. Oh how I love the PKT2, makes me considering maining Ness quite often.

 

[leelue]

Idk about u guys but pkt2 never seemed like a valid threat to me.

For those of u who are wondering, Its Dk's Tilts and Air game that make a matchup hard for snake. Dk is hard to edgeguard, and snake cant say "have a delicious tilt for lunch and die" to DK, he is very heavy and a fast faller, much like snake himself. Dk can edgeguard the hell out of Snake and a Forward smash is Death on wings
(But its like that for everyone)

I dont play DK, but he is underrated. **** monkey.

As for the ness-snake debacle, Ness might be a fun character to play against Snake, but it would appear that Snake should have this one beat more than half the time. U-tilt=The new Jesus.
Snakes dont have to approach, ever (except against space animals and the like), and he can lay waste to Ness's approach with a shield or a tilt, like he does to almost everybody else. Ness has his dash attack.... and Fair.... but snake just has too much going for him and can overwhelm the little guy once he gets going.

 

[Uffe]

I don't wanna fight Snake when I'm Ness. It's... too traumatic. So, how is DK a Snake counter? I've never heard that before, I'm just interested in seeing how that's possible.

DK is the quickest large character in the game. His attacks have good range, too, believe it or not. If you play Free for All and DK is around, he can do an f-smash on the opponent next to him without having to move which amazingly enough gets that opponent up to 21% in an instant! Of course I know you're saying that this isn't an FFA match, this is how well DK can do against Snake. Either way I'm pointing out the range of DK's attacks. He's big, quick and has strong attacks. What more could you ask for in a character?

I feel that Ganondorf might have an upperhand against Snake as well. Both are slow obviously but one is insanely powerful than the other. Okay maybe not insanely. Anyway projectile doesn't mean crap. I took down two Lucas PK Fire spammers with Ike before. Samus was easy, too, which brings me back to why DK is a counter for Snake, projectile or not. So while Ness or Snake may have projectile, you can't always count on those to win.

 

[Earthbound360]

I never said e was a total counter, but Ness doesnt do exceptionally bad on Snake.

 

[Gindler]

Snakes dont have to approach, ever (except against space animals and the like), and he can lay waste to Ness's approach with a shield or a tilt, like he does to almost everybody else. Ness has his dash attack.... and Fair.... but snake just has too much going for him and can overwhelm the little guy once he gets going.

Yeah, if only Ness had some kind of fast steerable projectile to make snake approach....honestly if I wanted to I could outcamp snake if I wanted. Blow nades away with magnet and reflect nikita with my bat, that's pretty much all he can camp with...constant taunting helps to, no one likes being taunted at. Snake is one of my easier ness matchups so i'm not saying he's a complete snake counter either. Especially if you've played snakes like afro thundah for instance.

 

[Masky]

I know I've posted this a million times but Gindler we HAVE to play... at Gigabits, hopefully I'll be able to go. We can share mad Ness knowledge and maybe you convince me to pick up Yoshi

And 360... I hope you didn't think my post was directed towards you because it wasn't, I know what you meant and that you didn't mean that Ness had the advantage... you're smarter than that . (btw, I was looking for Snake tips you'd posted and I couldn't find them... do you remember the thread? or is the AiB happy happy cult matchup topic pretty comprehensive?)

 

[marcus0103]

Yep, this is great..

 

[SLIVR]

how is ness a snake counter pick?

 

[marcus0103]

Most of my points are in the first post, but apparently I haven't played a good Snake before. It was worth a shot tho =/

 

[Gindler]

I know I've posted this a million times but Gindler we HAVE to play... at Gigabits, hopefully I'll be able to go. We can share mad Ness knowledge and maybe you convince me to pick up Yoshi

Ha, honestly I have no Ness knowledge (one example, PK jumping? ha). Just Ness opinions. and yoshi's just like Ness, only with less kill moves, worse grabs, and surprisingly less gimpable. But we'll see what we can do I think I'll be at the next gigs so probably play there, and that's when I'll take down afro with Ness to show how he can counter snake

 

[Fatmanonice]

Oh well is right. NOBODY counters Snake. (except for DK)

I strongly disagree with this. I think you're mixing up Snake with Metaknight. Snake has several counters: Pikachu, Fox, Ice Climbers, King Dedede, and ROB is pretty good too. I think Falco might be a counter too and I haven't played as DK in the match up yet so I really can't place any judgement in it. When I say counter, I mean at least 60/40 when it comes to the match up. I don't think anyone has a strong advantage over Snake but I do believe there are people that have a small advantage over him.

I'll explain my reasons for the characters I listed:

Pikachu-Can fthrow chain grab snake, thunder jolt stops grenades, thunder can wreck Snake's recovery, easy for him to get caught in jab and dsmash, fsmash can stop the nikita missle, thunder jolt easily disarms mines, thunder jolt stops the mortar slide, and dair outprioritizes the mortar shells.

Fox- lazer instantly blows up grenades, lazer heavily deters the path of the nikita missle, reflector can reflect all his projectiles including the mortar shells, can easily be juggled by utilt, lazer is pretty good at racking up damage quickly, is fairly easy to trap in his jab, and upsmash can kill Snake at like 110%.

Ice Climbers- chain grabs (do I really have to explain this?), ice blocks stop grenades, heavily deters the path of the nikita, trip mines, and completely stops mortar sliding, blizzard is very effective at close range, and dair outprioritizes the mortar shells.

King Dedede- the dthrow chain grab, ftilt has a farther reach than Snake's, Waddle Dee/Doos stop grenades, blow up mines, blow up nikita missles, and slow down mortar sliding, has a much easier time gimping Snake than most characters, inhale sets off mines, and matches Snake in both power and range for most attacks.

ROB- eh... I'm tired, I'll finish this tomorrow.

 

[E-unit]

I personally think that a Ness vs. Snake matchup is about even...

 

[PK Starstorm]

he's pretty good. i hink if we can find some strategies around that f tilt of his, we can beat him very well.