Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[NotGenerico]

What a weird coincidence Falcom came up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I disagree - if Ryu Hayabusa was such a liability to making your leak believable, he wouldn't have been included on so many subsequent lists. They included him because his inclusion was believable, because his case made sense.

Then we'll just agree to disagree since to me, it was all just piggybacking because they simply wanted it to be real and we had liars like IAmShifty (who legit talked about characters yet to get revealed for base, Plant included, which made him like loz18) pushing the narrative because it's easy to dupe people on someone everyone is already so convinced is happening.

I witnessed the entire thing go down and even I drank the Kool-Aid for a bit when IAmShifty talked about Hayabusa or when Vergeben mentioned there had been talks between insiders about him and later that negotiations were happening with Tecmo-Koei for Smash (which later turned out to be the Age of Calamity Spirits and Sophie's Spirit for Persona 5 Strikers and nothing else)

But after a while, he and Crash were telltale signs to me a leak was fake, especially when this sort of meme had truth to it.

It was always Crash or Hayabusa until it wasn't.
Or Geno up until his costume and even then the fanbase still tried to say Geno was still coming for a while.
Or Dante sometimes, especially with Challenger Pack #5.
Or Doom Slayer early on in FP1 before the interview.
Or Cinderace after Byleth.
Or Eggman but only after Sephiroth. Though this one didn't linger.

All of them had "cases". And I'm sure people making them saw those cases as "good".
But frankly it got overplayed and are clear examples of the Smash fandom not really knowing jack when it came to the DLC.


And that's really all I'm willing to stretch this subject for.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What a weird coincidence Falcom came up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Hmm... Stuff like this always makes me wonder if they've ever been approached.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Hmm... Stuff like this always makes me wonder if they've ever been approached.

I could have sworn there was some interview a while back and it had a different answer?

Could just be a Mandela on my end.

 

[Ivander]

Hmm... Stuff like this always makes me wonder if they've ever been approached.

I mean, some creators have mentioned that they didn't get asked about their characters. I think it's safe to assume that Sakurai really thinks the roster he wants through before going up to the companies to ask about their characters. Because let's be honest, with Smash Bros being such a huge name, it's hard to imagine people refuse if asked to have their character in Smash unless they have an important reason to them why. There's also the possibility of alot of executive meddling in regards to licensing, pricing and whatnot, but that's a different can of worms.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What a weird coincidence Falcom came up.

Well ****.


Edit: Lol, half the comments are like "Estelle, you fool!"

I mean, some creators have mentioned that they didn't get asked about their characters. I think it's safe to assume that Sakurai really thinks the roster he wants through before going up to the companies to ask about their characters.

Or maybe he only acknowledges proactive companies that approach HIM.

"They have to prove they want it."

 

[dream1ng]

That makes complete sense to me. Much more than when some one-shot game from 40 years ago that wasn't even popular then becomes a Smash Fighter.

That's not being "retro". Retro things at least USED to be popular.

Something like Ice Climbers or ROB isn't a retro-pick. It's more of an...oddity pick.

Well no, the problem comes from the label of retro and ascribing their inclusion to a specific era. Too much significance is being paid to being successful during a certain era while not enough to the fact these characters remained prosperous while gaining fans for like twenty-five to thirty years after that.

If a character is popular for thirty years, at any point along that timeframe people are jumping in. If someone became a fan of Mega Man in 2005, when he was still very active, it doesn't mean they care about or even played Contra. At that point in time, it would've been likelier they were also a fan of Halo or GTA or something. Meanwhile, in 2005, you have far fewer people becoming fans of a now pretty low-key series like Contra.

And keep in mind 2005 was the year of the poll that got Mega Man included. Dude was getting multiple games a year; it wasn't "the retro crowd" who got him in, it was a fanbase that spanned four gens of active releases.

Because most of these "retro" series are just successful series that began during the retro era. But so are, like, Mario, Zelda and Metroid. If you're a Zelda fan, but you started on the 64, that doesn't mean you would inherently care about, like, Ghosts n Goblins.

It's the additional eras, with the games therein, which gave series like Mega Man, Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, etc. the requisite, higher volume of support to elevate them to the point where inclusion was feasible. It's existing across enough gens successfully that they have both an audience size and an audience still active enough that can push for them. If it was just being retro, we'd have gotten a third-party who fell off after that era yet still retained enough demand to be included. Other than maybe Pac-Man, depending on how you see his post-retro catalogue, there aren't any.

That's why it won't be Rizer after Hayabusa. He's not going to have enough popularity to offset the state of his series, because demand isn't based on some fixed year. The people who want Hayabusa aren't just those who played Ninja Gaiden in 1989, it's everyone who came to his series in the last thirty-something years, including when it was pretty popular but very different in the 00s, who might have a completely unrelated catalogue of games they care about than what released in his proximity fifteen years before they even played the series.

That's the distinction between a series popular across decades versus one that faded after the retro era, and separates the Hayabusas from the Rizers.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

What a weird coincidence Falcom came up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This confirms that the Y's series isnt getting into Smash.

If a new smash is in early development he would probably be under NDA over roster picks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That's why it won't be Rizer after Hayabusa. He's not going to have enough popularity to offset the state of his series, because demand isn't based on some fixed year.

Weird thing claim considering Castlevania had been VERY dead for years at the time Simon and Richter were added. And the Contra franchise remained just as active as CV did.

Sakurai is just as much an oldschool nostalgia fan as anyone. He remembers the days when Contra and GnG were big Nintendo franchises. He references them on his channel a bunch.

The reason it'll be Rizer after Hayabusa is because, after Ninja Gaiden, Contra is the next most iconic NES franchise on the list. And Sakurai loves repping the NES. Simple as that.

 

[Ivander]

Weird thing claim considering Castlevania had been VERY dead for years at the time Simon and Richter were added.

No, it just wasn't getting new games people cared about. Before Simon and Richter's reveal, Konami did announce that Grimoire of Souls mobile game(which took a long time to release, did it's run, got discontinued, then got put onto the Apple Arcade later) and the Castlevania anime was currently on-going and was even airing around the time Simon and Richter were revealed, so it certainly wasn't dead. The onslaught of Castlevania Pachinko machines hardly helps.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The onslaught of Castlevania Pachinko machines hardly helps.

Ah yes, the EROTIC VIOLENCE.

 

[Idon]

What a weird coincidence Falcom came up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Hmm yeah, while I appreciate your opinion Mr. President, I also strongly disagree with this and your AI translation opinions.

So I'm gonna pray that if this ever comes to pass, Nintendo/Sakurai exercise the full strength of their veto powers.

 

[Wonder Smash]

This confirms that the Y's series isnt getting into Smash.

If a new smash is in early development he would probably be under NDA over roster picks.

All it really means that there hasn't been any negotiations between Nintendo and Falcom yet. Ys could still make it in if it's early game development.

 

[Idon]

All it really means that there hasn't been any negotiations between Nintendo and Falcom yet. Ys could still make it in if it's early game development.

Plus there's always DLC anyways for any late joiners.

 

[Ivander]

Ah yes, the EROTIC VIOLENCE.

If we get Simon & Richter back, I hope this is referenced if Morrigan ever gets in.

 

[SharkLord]

What a weird coincidence Falcom came up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Ay yo hold the phone?

I wasn't accidentally gaslighting people into thinking Adol would be the primary Falcom pick? Kondo had my back the entire time??

maybe there is a god after all

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, what do you think of the state of the Star Fox franchise?

Both in the context of Smash and outside of it?

Terrible. Star Fox is lucky that Wolf is an especially beloved character right now. Otherwise I would be afraid of the status of both Wolf and Falco. With current standings... It doesn't look too good bro.

Am hoping that the rumors of that Assault remake are true. Would improve the position of Star Fox significantly.

 

[fogbadge]

IMO, if you are going to include a character, you should try to make them as unique as possible, even if you theoretically could justify a near exact replica.

Roxas's entire iconography revolves around his dual keyblades, if you're going to include him it's going to be with the thing fans remember him for and not his origin story. I mean for goodness's sake, he's more popular than Riku, the damn Vegeta of the series. I'd despise it if he was relegating to doing dumb looking mid-air splits and weird poses like KH1 Sora.

Hell, even though Xion is meant to stand in as a Sora surrogate, when you actually fight her, she differentiates herself to an insane degree, doing **** Sora has never done and probably never will. The appeal of the Pseudo-Soras is their originality and how they alter Sora's basic framework so I feel strongly any inclusion of them should emphasize those differences.

And really, Smash Sora is very specifically KH1 Sora. Not even 358/2 Days Roxas fights like that, nor really any version of Sora from the sequels going forward. By the end of 358, Roxas is doing air-dashes and summoning light pillars without even dual wielding. I don't think anyone could play the 2 games back to back and say they're that similar in game-feel. If Smash Sora was as aggressive and acrobatic as KH2 and beyond, I'd be more partial to the idea but honestly it just feels weird to use my Roxas mod on Sora.

ok calling Riku the vegeta of the series is just rude

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Except Dark Link and Blood Falcon.

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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I argue otherwise. Even Blood Falcon could have a few nice differences.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Do you think it's a possibility Smash gets the Mario Kart 8 treatment for the next console and simply re-releases alongside a new batch of characters, stages (including the few missing ones) and maybe a sequel to World of Light? While that would be kind of a letdown since I like how Smash actually changes every iteration trying to innovate a game which in its essence cannot be changed at all, I think it would be the best and most profitable choice on Nintendo's part. I recently downloaded the 48 tracks they added in Mario Kart and I'm like, this is awesome, do we really need Mario Kart 9?

 

[Gengar84]

What does everyone think of Van Arkride from Trails through Daybreak? That’s the first Trails game I’ve played and I completed the demo, which was a few hours long. I thought Van was a pretty cool protagonist from what I’ve seen so far and has a cool transformation gimmick. I’m thinking about checking out some of the older Trails games with Estelle once the remakes come out.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

What else would you do with them exactly? I always thought Fox was designed as intuitively as he really could be, you have a number of the Arwing's functions represented abstractly through Fox's gadgets. You can shoot a blaster, you can blitz forward, you can put up a reflector. I think he's kinda perfect, and is pretty referential without beating you over the head with it. I guess the only thing I'd do nowadays if I had no frame of reference for Fire Fox would be something closer to his "Twisting Fox" custom in Smash 4, referencing the Barrel Roll. But I wouldn't bother changing that now, 25 years later.

Fox, Falco and Wolf are also just well designed and comfortable feeling characters. The reason there are three of them is because Fox is one of the more straightforward and effectively designed characters in the series, like Marth, so it's easy to use it as a framework to build and iterate on. It helps that given the series' otherwise limited material it makes an amount of sense to just have them all fight like their ships anyway. And then to fluff up their kits just pull from how dynamic these characters are - Falco and Wolf have such strong personalities, and have that basic animalistic theming you can always fall back on to distinguish them even further. I think they're great, I don't know any other way I'd rather have it.

I know Assault added a bunch of weapons that allowed them all to fight on foot. It did come out too late to be represented in 64 or Melee, but even if you didn't wanna alter Fox or Falco that much, Wolf would've given them an opportunity to break away from the norm, and create a moveset that's more focused on heavy weaponry.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Krystal probably has the most gameplay potential of the remaining StarFox characters thanks to StarFox Adventures. That would represent a whole new side of the series the traditional games don’t really cover. There is also a focus on on-foot combat and exploration which translates well to Smash.

 

[RileyXY1]

Do you think it's a possibility Smash gets the Mario Kart 8 treatment for the next console and simply re-releases alongside a new batch of characters, stages (including the few missing ones) and maybe a sequel to World of Light? While that would be kind of a letdown since I like how Smash actually changes every iteration trying to innovate a game which in its essence cannot be changed at all, I think it would be the best and most profitable choice on Nintendo's part. I recently downloaded the 48 tracks they added in Mario Kart and I'm like, this is awesome, do we really need Mario Kart 9?

Due to the Switch 2 possibly being backwards compatible with the Switch and the Switch being a massive success and not a Wii U level flop, I don't think this is gonna happen.

 

[Gengar84]

Due to the Switch 2 possibly being backwards compatible with the Switch and the Switch being a massive success and not a Wii U level flop, I don't think this is gonna happen.

Yeah, I think I agree with that. I don’t see the point in selling the same game to us again if we can already play the one we have on the console. I’d rather they just continue to make content updates to Ultimate itself at that point.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, I think I agree with that. I don’t see the point in selling the same game to us again if we can already play the one we have on the console. I’d rather they just continue to make content updates to Ultimate itself at that point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Continuing DLC for the Ultimate we already have is more likely to give Ultimate DX supporters what they want than an actual Ultimate DX since more of a new pass's budget would be devoted to making new content, not just relicensing the old.

 

[BuckleyTim]

While I don't think the possibility of the latter is likely, if sakurai really is working on something that isn't smash, then I could see a hypothetical where they do fp3 just to have some sort of smash thing out for the first year or two without having to develop/license a new one. Could(?) explain them pushing spirits and the gsp fix this year, too.

I've seen some rumors are starting to swirl that Nintendo has been asking third parties to do some remasters for switch so they still have content for the console as the transition to switch 2 happens. Again, while it's not likely at all I don't think the possibility of more support for ultimate is necessarily 0%, provided the factors I mentioned work out how they do.

 

[Guynamednelson]

if sakurai really is working on something that isn't smash

Yeah this is basically the reason why I'd think Nintendo would greenlight more DLC, rather than the BCP or to ensure the fans can still have everyone playable and then some.

KIU took 3.5 years to make as a 3DS game, and game development's become more time-consuming since then. We're lucky in that regard that fighting games are still something that can be churned out in only 2 years.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I got a new sig!

Whatcha think?

For the sake of Smash related discussion...

This is your new newcomer lineup in a new Smash game. How do you react?

 

[superprincess]

I got a new sig!

Whatcha think?

For the sake of Smash related discussion...

This is your new newcomer lineup in a new Smash game. How do you react?

Same old. King Boo and Miraidon are marginally more interesting than the rest but still picks we hear about over and over again.

Smash fans should start to think outside the box. I'm tired of the same Waluigi/Impa/Bandana Dee/Oatchi/Ring Fit lineup.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Same old. King Boo and Miraidon are marginally more interesting than the rest but still picks we hear about over and over again.

Smash fans should start to think outside the box. I'm tired of the same Waluigi/Impa/Bandana Dee/Oatchi/Ring Fit lineup.

I dunno. Zael of all characters is there.

I think that's pretty out there.

Also that's Koraidon.

 

[fogbadge]

I got a new sig!

Whatcha think?

For the sake of Smash related discussion...

This is your new newcomer lineup in a new Smash game. How do you react?

well you have many who I’d welcome with open arms and many I don’t care about. also is that the flamethrower guy from TF2?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

well you have many who I’d welcome with open arms and many I don’t care about. also is that the flamethrower guy from TF2?

Yeah, that's the Pyro from TF2.

I know people go for Heavy and I do love Heavy, but Pyro is my personal favorite.

 

[Jave]

Same old. King Boo and Miraidon are marginally more interesting than the rest but still picks we hear about over and over again.

Smash fans should start to think outside the box. I'm tired of the same Waluigi/Impa/Bandana Dee/Oatchi/Ring Fit lineup.

When people think outside the box and give more unpredictable rosters, the replies are always "Those characters are never happening, and here are multiple reasons I can't validate as to why."

 

[Swamp Sensei]

When people think outside the box and give more unpredictable rosters, the replies are always "Those characters are never happening, and here are multiple reasons I can't validate as to why."

Regardless these are just characters I want. And I like things that are both mainstream and obscure.

 

[Gengar84]

I got a new sig!

Whatcha think?

For the sake of Smash related discussion...

This is your new newcomer lineup in a new Smash game. How do you react?

Pretty happy overall. A lot of cool character choices even if none of them are in my absolute top most wanted. As far as realistic options go, I like this list.

Since we’re sharing rosters again, I’ll post the one I made a few months ago. I forgot to add Olimar here so he should be here. I think I’ll try to make an updated roster at some point under the assumption that Sakurai’s project is Smash.

If nothing else, I’d say this roster is pretty unique. I tend to have pretty different tastes compared to most Smash fans. It leans a bit closer to a wishlist but I tried to keep most of the choices at least semi plausible.

 

[Jave]

Regardless these are just characters I want. And I like things that are both mainstream and obscure.

That's valid, and I think your roster is perfectly fine. Those are the characters you want and I respect it. Heck, I would be happy with a lot of those picks, and probably only do a couple of trade-offs.

My point is that talking about potential rosters (whether it's most wanted or predictions) always feels like a lose-lose situation since you either get people to tell you your choices are boring because they're too obvious or that they're not happening for whatever arbitrary reason.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Same old. King Boo and Miraidon are marginally more interesting than the rest but still picks we hear about over and over again.

Smash fans should start to think outside the box. I'm tired of the same Waluigi/Impa/Bandana Dee/Oatchi/Ring Fit lineup.

I mean, they are all there, but there's also Paper Mario, Midna, Krystal, Tiki, Ashley, Tails, D.J. Octavio, Isaac, That Guy Who I'm Assuming is Zael, Crono, Pyro, and Shovel Knight, all of which are very much not considered to be frontrunners.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah, that's the Pyro from TF2.

I know people go for Heavy and I do love Heavy, but Pyro is my personal favorite.

I think Pyro would work better anyway for recovery's sake.

Even if you take a cue from TFC and give Heavy grenade jumping for his up-B, Heavy takes the least knockback of any class in that game. Meanwhile that's not a problem for a class who can have a jetpack.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I got a new sig!

Whatcha think?

For the sake of Smash related discussion...

This is your new newcomer lineup in a new Smash game. How do you react?

Waluigi, Paper Mario, Skull Kid, King Boo, Raven Beak, Ashley, Tails, Oatchi, Octavio, Chorus Kids, Shovel Knight, Sans, PYRO????

I would be more than happy with this lineup. Even the characters that I don't care for as much still feel like they're reasonable picks and have a place.

Same old. King Boo and Miraidon are marginally more interesting than the rest but still picks we hear about over and over again.

Smash fans should start to think outside the box. I'm tired of the same Waluigi/Impa/Bandana Dee/Oatchi/Ring Fit lineup.

Have you considered that there are people that genuinely want Waluigi, Impa, Bandana Dee, and Oatchi and not hopping on a bandwagon?