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Just saying guys. I recently did a poll so we can stop arguments like this. Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee AND Waluigi are all some of the most popular first party candidates. Period.
Smash and Mario Kart don't necessarily have the same audience / the audience doesn't necessarily expect the same things from them.
I can already hear the complaints if a good chunk of the 3rd party characters and/or the deep cut Nintendo characters get cut like many people are predicting (hoping?) while Waluigi gets added: "They turned Smash into just another lame Mario spin-off!"
The dude would work best in a EiHA scenario where he can blend in the crowd.
Sales honestly mean very little in regards to Smash Bros. If it was serious argument, we'd have a roster that looks more like Mario Kart 8. There's so much more nuance to it.
Just saying guys. I recently did a poll so we can stop arguments like this. Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee AND Waluigi are all some of the most popular first party candidates. Period.
Yeah but I think most people would recognize Waluigi on a whim anyway. Not to mention his eccentric looks and personality are more of a draw than a female monkey with a ponytail and a generic enemy with a bandana.
Of course those characters have support, but nowhere near the level of Waluigi's.
We can speculate, but in the end we don't know. Dixie is still the most major character from a highly popular franchise that's included with Smash and Mario all the time. So there's that.
Also you dismissed Toad and he has way more recognisability and fame than Waluigi, Dixie and Bandana Dee combined. So there's that to consider.
Another character I wanna bring to your attention here is Funky Kong. He has both the factors of Waluigi and Dixie combined. Insanely popular cause of one particular inclusion in MK Wii, so he's a good case to measure exactly how much popularity a character can get from one big inclusion like this.
Can you imagine Baby Daisy as a fighter? That...actually I dunno if the silliness factor would outweigh the fact that it'd mean I'd have to beat up a baby...
Can you imagine Baby Daisy as a fighter? That...actually I dunno if the silliness factor would outweigh the fact that it'd mean I'd have to beat up a baby...
Can you imagine Baby Daisy as a fighter? That...actually I dunno if the silliness factor would outweigh the fact that it'd mean I'd have to beat up a baby...
Mario Kart and Smash do have a lot of overlap. At numbers like 30, 40, 50, 60 mil, you're including a lot of casual consumers who play it just because it's a fun, established, easy to pick up and play game with well known faces.
Of course you dive into smaller fractions of the audience and yes of course it differs, but the vast, silent majority buys Smash because it's basically a Nintendo staple like Kart and whatever the mainline Mario game is.
I can already hear the complaints if a good chunk of the 3rd party characters and/or the deep cut Nintendo characters get cut like many people are predicting (hoping?) while Waluigi gets added: "They turned Smash into just another lame Mario spin-off!"
Do you envision the next Smash game as cutting half the roster and only adding Waluigi?
Do you think they're not going to add new third-parties? They're not going to add new deeper cuts?
Also... people want Waluigi. He's the most popular first-party request. It's not adding like... three baby versions. Adding one more Mario character doesn't make this Mario Kart's roster. Especially because, conversely, some Mario characters will probably also be cut.
Sales honestly mean very little in regards to Smash Bros. If it was serious argument, we'd have a roster that looks more like Mario Kart 8. There's so much more nuance to it.
Indeed. Mario Kart has always been more mainstream than 90% of the other series in Smash, if that was the only factor Waluigi would have been in since forever.
Instead they've always been very specific in making sure for Smash to not feel just like any other Mario spin-off, deliberately holding back from flooding the roster with Mario characters. Ever since Smash 64 really, but they also avoided adding Wario to Melee, and they only really started to expand the Mario cast when the roster was very big already.
Even then Rosalina and Bowser Jr. got in for their gameplay possibilities first and foremost, but they also come from the main series too. Daisy is a freebie and Plant is a joke character.
Waluigi instead doesn't really offer much in terms of gameplay and he's the definition of Mario spin-off roster filler, that's his entire function.
He's still a notable character and he could be pretty funny, but I don't think he's as guaranteed or as big of a slam dunk as he's presented as.
On the topic of Waluigi, in SSF2 his up air looks like Sonic’s up air (he flips upside down and claps his legs together,) but, contrary to all logic as to what an up air is supposed to do, especially one that looks very similar to another move used by another character, it launches the opponent straight down. It doesn’t make any sense, yet, Waluigi is one of the few characters they can give a move a bizarre hitbox property like that and you’d just think, “Yeah, that fits.”
I‘m not that concerned on if Waluigi joins or not but I wonder if the Smash team would come up with any shenanigans like that.
With Smash 6 just around the corner, prediction rosters are running rampant. I think I'm ready to brain fart my own prediction. I want my brain fart to be semi realistic, so I'll aim for about 12 newcomers, the usual amount for a Smash game. I'll call it unbias while adding every character I want, but I'll justify them as making sense, I'll also avoid any characters I don't want because I think Geno is dumb. I'll aim for 65 characters + Echoes, just a little under Smash Ultimate base. I think this is a good amount but I might increase this number as I find it difficult to include all the characters I want. Sora is character 82 which means 29 cuts. Let's figure those out first before I'm forced to increase my roster already
CUTS:
Incineroar
[*]Pichu
[*]Squirtle
[*]Ivysaur (Pokémon is easy, Incineroar is dumb and the others have been cut before)
[*]Mii Brawler
[*]Mii Gunner
[*]Mii Sword Fighter (Miis are being phased out my Nintendo, customisation takes a lot of work. They lack identity and already feel largely separated from the roster)
[*]Sora
[*]Cloud
[*]Sephiroth
[*]Hero (square is gone, but I'll say any cut can be DLC to lighten the load. Any roster that's trying to be realistic needs to remove a hefty amount of third parties)
[*]Corrin
[*]Roy/Chrom (First of the Fire Emblem, we'll see how I go before I need to cut Robin and Ike.)
[*]Piranha Plant (duh)
[*]Terry (a more niche third party, may need to increase my roster, see how I go)
[*]Dr. Mario (kinda forgot he wasn't an echo lol
[*]Young Link
[*]Toon Link (clones)
[*]Snake
[*]Simon/Richter (Konami has decided not to play ball before)
[*]Joker (just kinda feeling it)
[*]Lucas (mother 3 doesn't exist)
[*]Bowser Jr (wanted to avoid this but Jr feels the most superfluous of the unique Mario cast)
[*]Duck Hunt (I think a retro has gotta go to meet my quota
[*]Zero Suit Samus (we already have Samus)
[*]Wii Fit Trainer (I'm probably gonna add Ring Fit, but you can also probably ignore this now, I'm probably adding a few these characters back)
[*]Falco (I prefer Wolf)
[*]Bayonetta (series is a mess)
[*]Sheik (because the Zelda cast is really bad, and I'm definitely adding another.)
Ok with that nonsense out of the way. Let's figure out newcomers
Skull Kid - Zelda is long overdue a decent newcomer and Skull Kid has a fair bit of hype behind him. The developers seem aware of this with his multiple assist trophies, Mii costumes and spirits. Also definitely not my most wanted
[*]Bandana Dee - a fan favourite who has become player 2 of the Kirby series. He makes sense and I like things making sense. Hence why he's among my most wanted
[*]Waluigi - Probably the most highly requested character at this point. End of sentence
[*]Pauline - I just like the symmetry she brings with Waluigi. 4 main Mario girls, 4 main Mario boy
[*]Dixie Kong - an overdue face to the series. Highly popular and even marketed by Nintendo
[*]Pokémon Gen 10 - This is boring but it's hard to say a name when it doesn't exist yet. But I think it will by the time the next Smash comes out. To be more specific, it will be the psuedo legend and Champions ace
[*]Isaac - Isaac is similar to Skull Kid where his hype was seemingly acknowledged by the developers. I think Golden Sun has more spirits than any other non playable franchise
[*]Ring Fit Trainee - Ring Fit was a smash hit and is one of Nintendo's most noteworthy new ups
[*]Squid Sisters - Over Octolings? Yep. Squid Sisters are all over the marketing for Splatoon and the idles are a big part. I'm not sure how they'll do it, maybe like Ice Climbers, maybe they'll be each others alt or echo. But I think Nintendo will want them playable
[*]Noah - Xenoblade is the new Fire Emblem.
[*]Hayabusa - I need a new third party ip but honestly I don't give a hoot who. Ninja Gaiden has legacy so I chose him.
[*]Shadow - He's cool
That's my list, also new echo fighters
Funky Kong
Jeanne (I'm gonna add back Bayonetta)
Tom Nook
That's it
So that means, with a roster of 75, my brain fart looks like
Mario
Luigi
Peach / Daisy
Bowser
Rosalina
Bowser Jr
Waluigi
Pauline
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong / Funky Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K Rool
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Sheik
Toon Link
Skull Kid
Samus / Dark Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Bandana Dee
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Pikachu
Pokémon Trainer
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Lucario
Greninja
ZillerZalla
Ness
Lucas
Captain Falcon
Mr. Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Marth / Lucina
Roy / Chrom
Ike
Robin
Byleth
Olimar
R.O.B.
Pit / Dark Pit
Palutena
Sonic
Shadow
Villager
Isabelle / Tom Nook
Mega Man
Wii Fit Trainer
Little Mac
Pac-Man
Shulk
Pyra & Mythra
Noah
Duck Hunt
Ryu / Ken
Bayonetta / Jeanne
Inkling
Squid Sisters
Banjo & Kazooie
Terry
Min Min
Steve
Kazuya
Isaac
Ring Fit
Hayabusa
Hope I didn't miss any obvious veteran.
Honourable mentions
Magolor
Midna
Raven Beak
King Boo
Ashley (the Wario Ware character)
Also Oatchi is the new Piranha Plant and is free DLC for early purchases
With Smash 6 just around the corner, prediction rosters are running rampant. I think I'm ready to brain fart my own prediction. I want my brain fart to be semi realistic, so I'll aim for about 12 newcomers, the usual amount for a Smash game. I'll call it unbias while adding every character I want, but I'll justify them as making sense, I'll also avoid any characters I don't want because I think Geno is dumb. I'll aim for 65 characters + Echoes, just a little under Smash Ultimate base. I think this is a good amount but I might increase this number as I find it difficult to include all the characters I want. Sora is character 82 which means 29 cuts. Let's figure those out first before I'm forced to increase my roster already
CUTS:
Incineroar
[*]Pichu
[*]Squirtle
[*]Ivysaur (Pokémon is easy, Incineroar is dumb and the others have been cut before)
[*]Mii Brawler
[*]Mii Gunner
[*]Mii Sword Fighter (Miis are being phased out my Nintendo, customisation takes a lot of work. They lack identity and already feel largely separated from the roster)
[*]Sora
[*]Cloud
[*]Sephiroth
[*]Hero (square is gone, but I'll say any cut can be DLC to lighten the load. Any roster that's trying to be realistic needs to remove a hefty amount of third parties)
[*]Corrin
[*]Roy/Chrom (First of the Fire Emblem, we'll see how I go before I need to cut Robin and Ike.)
[*]Piranha Plant (duh)
[*]Terry (a more niche third party, may need to increase my roster, see how I go)
[*]Dr. Mario (kinda forgot he wasn't an echo lol
[*]Young Link
[*]Toon Link (clones)
[*]Snake
[*]Simon/Richter (Konami has decided not to play ball before)
[*]Joker (just kinda feeling it)
[*]Lucas (mother 3 doesn't exist)
[*]Bowser Jr (wanted to avoid this but Jr feels the most superfluous of the unique Mario cast)
[*]Duck Hunt (I think a retro has gotta go to meet my quota
[*]Zero Suit Samus (we already have Samus)
[*]Wii Fit Trainer (I'm probably gonna add Ring Fit, but you can also probably ignore this now, I'm probably adding a few these characters back)
[*]Falco (I prefer Wolf)
[*]Bayonetta (series is a mess)
[*]Sheik (because the Zelda cast is really bad, and I'm definitely adding another.)
Ok with that nonsense out of the way. Let's figure out newcomers
Skull Kid - Zelda is long overdue a decent newcomer and Skull Kid has a fair bit of hype behind him. The developers seem aware of this with his multiple assist trophies, Mii costumes and spirits. Also definitely not my most wanted
[*]Bandana Dee - a fan favourite who has become player 2 of the Kirby series. He makes sense and I like things making sense. Hence why he's among my most wanted
[*]Waluigi - Probably the most highly requested character at this point. End of sentence
[*]Pauline - I just like the symmetry she brings with Waluigi. 4 main Mario girls, 4 main Mario boy
[*]Dixie Kong - an overdue face to the series. Highly popular and even marketed by Nintendo
[*]Pokémon Gen 10 - This is boring but it's hard to say a name when it doesn't exist yet. But I think it will by the time the next Smash comes out. To be more specific, it will be the psuedo legend and Champions ace
[*]Isaac - Isaac is similar to Skull Kid where his hype was seemingly acknowledged by the developers. I think Golden Sun has more spirits than any other non playable franchise
[*]Ring Fit Trainee - Ring Fit was a smash hit and is one of Nintendo's most noteworthy new ups
[*]Squid Sisters - Over Octolings? Yep. Squid Sisters are all over the marketing for Splatoon and the idles are a big part. I'm not sure how they'll do it, maybe like Ice Climbers, maybe they'll be each others alt or echo. But I think Nintendo will want them playable
[*]Noah - Xenoblade is the new Fire Emblem.
[*]Hayabusa - I need a new third party ip but honestly I don't give a hoot who. Ninja Gaiden has legacy so I chose him.
[*]Shadow - He's cool
That's my list, also new echo fighters
Funky Kong
Jeanne (I'm gonna add back Bayonetta)
Tom Nook
That's it
So that means, with a roster of 75, my brain fart looks like
Mario
Luigi
Peach / Daisy
Bowser
Rosalina
Bowser Jr
Waluigi
Pauline
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong / Funky Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong
King K Rool
Link
Zelda
Ganondorf
Sheik
Toon Link
Skull Kid
Samus / Dark Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede
Bandana Dee
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Pikachu
Pokémon Trainer
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Lucario
Greninja
ZillerZalla
Ness
Lucas
Captain Falcon
Mr. Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Marth / Lucina
Roy / Chrom
Ike
Robin
Byleth
Olimar
R.O.B.
Pit / Dark Pit
Palutena
Sonic
Shadow
Villager
Isabelle / Tom Nook
Mega Man
Wii Fit Trainer
Little Mac
Pac-Man
Shulk
Pyra & Mythra
Noah
Duck Hunt
Ryu / Ken
Bayonetta / Jeanne
Inkling
Squid Sisters
Banjo & Kazooie
Terry
Min Min
Steve
Kazuya
Isaac
Ring Fit
Hayabusa
Hope I didn't miss any obvious veteran.
Honourable mentions
Magolor
Midna
Raven Beak
King Boo
Ashley (the Wario Ware character)
Also Oatchi is the new Piranha Plant and is free DLC for early purchases
Got motivated to re-evaluate my 96% honest prediction roster.
=Base Game=
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach/Daisy
4. Bowser
5. Bowser Jr.
6. Waluigi
7. Wario
8. Yoshi
9. Donkey Kong
10. Diddy Kong
11. Dixie Kong
12. King K. Rool
13. Little Mac
14. Ice Climbers
15. Link
16. Zelda
17. Ganondorf
18. Impa
19. Samus/Dark Samus
20. Ridley
21. Pit
22. Captain Falcon
23. Kirby
24. King Dedede
25. Meta Knight
26. Waddle Dee
27. Olimar/Louie
28. Ness
29. Pikachu
30. Jigglypuff
31. Mewtwo
32. Lucario
33. Greninja
34. [New Pokémon]
35. Fox
36. Falco
37. Villager
38. Isabelle
39. Inkling
40. Octoling
41. Min Min
42. Ring Fit Trainee
43. Marth/Lucina
44. Ike
45. Robin
46. Byleth
47. Shulk
48. Pyra & Mythra
49. Noah OR Mio
50. Howard
51. [Fan demand pick/Ballot leftover]
52. Mr. Game & Watch
53. R.O.B.
54. Duck Hunt
55. [New surprise character]
56. Sonic
57. Shadow
58. Bayonetta/Jeanne
59. Mega Man
60. Zero
61. Ryu/Ken
62. Pac-Man
63. Simon/Richter
64. Snake
65. Bomberman
66. Cloud
67. Hero
68. Terry
69. Banjo & Kazooie
70. Steve
71. Mii Brawler
72. Mii Swordfighter
73. Mii Gunner
Sephiroth, Kazuya, Sora, and maybe Joker are purposefully held back as FP DLC. Other select cut veterans would return through cheaply-priced DLC seperate from main Fighters' Passes.
=DLC Newcomers (non-exhaustive, in no particular order)=
*. [New FE Lord]
*. [At least two other future release characters]
*. Hayabusa
*. Arle
*. Crono OR 2B
*. Crash
*. Dante OR Leon OR something from Monster Hunter
*. [New Atlus character if Joker is left behind. Perhaps the Metaphor protag?]
*. Sol Badguy
*. Doomguy
*. Tako
*. Adol
This is what has me concerned. The Switch succeeded (in part) because it had an outstanding 2017 that won a lot of people over after the droughts of the Wii U. If 2025 doesn't have the software necessary to incentivize people to jump, that lack of momentum could carry through the rest of the generation in the form of lethargic sales and decreased third-party support.
Nintendo probably knows this and, if they are concerned about the Switch 2's year 1, that would explain why they've been so hesitant to announce anything about the console beyond "it exists, please don't dump our stock". They're buying the time necessary to have a bunch of software ready to go.
I'm hoping this is just Nintendo keeping their cards close to their chest. If Sakurai's new project is Smash and the rumours of a new Mario Kart and 3-D Mario are true, I think that's a solid enough launch to win a lot of people over.
I don't really worry about nintendo's prospects because interest for the switch hasn't faded like the Wii's did going into the Wii u. The circumstances that led to the U's flop just kinda don't exist for the switch 2, especially since they're bringing mainline pokemon to the system most likely by year 2 of its existence.
Granted I could be wrong and it'll be too expensive with no big hook... But as long as one comes eventually and it's cheaper than what Sony's offering it'll eventually do well.
This is what has me concerned. The Switch succeeded (in part) because it had an outstanding 2017 that won a lot of people over after the droughts of the Wii U. If 2025 doesn't have the software necessary to incentivize people to jump, that lack of momentum could carry through the rest of the generation in the form of lethargic sales and decreased third-party support.
Nintendo probably knows this and, if they are concerned about the Switch 2's year 1, that would explain why they've been so hesitant to announce anything about the console beyond "it exists, please don't dump our stock". They're buying the time necessary to have a bunch of software ready to go.
I'm hoping this is just Nintendo keeping their cards close to their chest. If Sakurai's new project is Smash and the rumours of a new Mario Kart and 3-D Mario are true, I think that's a solid enough launch to win a lot of people over.
I'm mostly concerned that they would be so paranoid about the Switch 2 not having a massive launch lineup that they would force Game Freak to rush Gen 10 out to have it by Holiday 2025 so they could have another massive Holiday game to sell more Switch 2s.
I just hope that when Switch 2 is revealed, someone during the event just makes a comment and says "Yes, we're making Smash Bros." so there's finally an excuse to re-open the character support threads. Having all character discussion condensed into this thread is really getting overwhelming.
If a new Smash is announced, though, site traffic will drastically increase. A dearth of news and expectations for a new game is gonna lead to the least overwhelming experience overall.
Unless you're only looking to discuss a handful of specific characters rather than the overarching game and roster, in which case yeah divvying up into support threads is going to make it easier to focus on that.
My favorite topics are the newcomers and Adventure Mode for the Super Smash Bros. series. Also my favorite topic is the discussion about supposed new Pokémon, i.e. where they are inspired by and what types they are. Of course, the supposed new Pokémon I'm thinking of are very many and of course I want them to be new Pokémon that The Pokémon Company itself has created. Also, surely some of you, like me, have visited Bulbapedia and you will have seen the article "List of disputed and unidentified Pokémon", this made me think and write on ChatGPT about various ideas for supposed new Pokémon.
I’ll probably have to create a bunch myself since I kind of doubt anyone else is going to make support threads for a lot of my most wanted. A few of these, like Zero probably will so I’ll follow those. Here’s some of my most wanted characters for Smash (I’ll put my top 10 in purple):
First Party:
Gengar (Pokémon)
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
Impa - HW version (Legend of Zelda)
E.M.M.I. (Metroid)
Goomba (Super Mario)
Bugzzy (Kirby)
Nia (Xenoblade)
Jena Anderson (Astral Chain)
Medusa (Kid Icarus)
The Black Knight (Fire Emblem)
Third Party:
Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
Jinx (League of Legends)
Illidan Stormrage (WarCraft)
Sarah Kerrigan (StarCraft)
Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Alphen and Shionne (Tales of)
Sub-Zero (Mortal Kombat)
Zero (Mega Man X)
Lu Bu (Dynasty Warriors)
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean (Contra)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Xemnas (Kingdom Hearts)
Etna (Disgaea)
H’aanit (Octopath Traveller)
Princess Garnet (Final Fantasy)
Raziel (Soul Reaver)
Death (Darksiders)
Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy)
Joanna Dark (Perfect Dark)
Diablo (Diablo)
Ogremon (Digimon)
Misako (River City Girls)
Zegram would easily make my top 10 but realistically, he has no business of being in Smash since he’s a side character in a PS2 JRPG that’s owned by Sony and hasn’t been seen since beyond ports of the game.
Has Smashboards made a specific plan on when they’ll open support threads? Would the Switch 2 reveal be enough of a reason, or do we want a formal announcement of the next Smash?
Or are they just waiting for enough people to compain about it? I understand if they wanna wait a bit longer, but the Switch 2 leaks + Sakurai working on “something” has me pretty antsy and ready to yap about all the dumb nonsense that isn’t worth derailing this entire thread for.
Has Smashboards made a specific plan on when they’ll open support threads? Would the Switch 2 reveal be enough of a reason, or do we want a formal announcement of the next Smash?
Or are they just waiting for enough people to compain about it? I understand if they wanna wait a bit longer, but the Switch 2 leaks + Sakurai working on “something” has me pretty antsy and ready to yap about all the dumb nonsense that isn’t worth derailing this entire thread for.
Has Smashboards made a specific plan on when they’ll open support threads? Would the Switch 2 reveal be enough of a reason, or do we want a formal announcement of the next Smash?