Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I really didn't expect people to take the SF3 comment so literally...

Because there's the better analogy of "what most big fighting game IPs do with their sequels"

There are more cut characters going from MK11 to MK1, a mere one-game difference, than Smash has had in its entire lifetime.

Street Fighter has also commonly done this since Street Fighter 4, even when discounting the sheer extreme that was SF3.

 

[BrawlX10]

Although unlike the new Pokémon reps Sylux isn't a completely new character created for Prime 4, as he previously appeared in Metroid Prime: Hunters for the DS. I still don't think he's likely unless Smash 6 is a later console release and is not the game Sakurai mentioned in his final YouTube video.

The thing with Sylux, is that while he's not a new character and has existed for like 18 years (Hunters came out in '06 acording to the wiki). I think they would like Sylux to have a Prime 4 inspired moveset than a mostly made up one, this is asuming Sylux is a boss fight in Prime 4, if he isn't and it's a cutscene-only character somehow with no moves shown, i don't think he'll make it, if he's a boss, specially a important boss, i'd say he's very likely for DLC, though.

Sylux being the big bad in Prime 4 won't affect the roster choices too much for the base game, if we're getting a Metroid rep in the next game then it's gonna be Raven Beak or nothing as Dread was released at the right time slightly around the time Sora released. The project plan for Smash 6 would've been finalized like years prior by now, and MP4 is likely releasing this year. Sure they could pull a Greninja and reserve a slot in advance for him as they see prototype footage of Sylux, but I very very very much doubt it. There's no franchise besides Pokemon that gets this cheating luxury of picking a choice years in advance, except for maybe Fire Emblem, but that's a different story lol

Yeah, i don't think Sylux is going to be in the base game at all, he is a DLC pick.
It's either Raven Beak or nothing in the base game like you said. Raven Beak is a cool character, but like i said, im not sure if Sakurai would include him, mostly because he's only in one game, he just doesn't tend to include those characters unless they're from a roating cast.
If there's a character that might break that "rule" is probably Prince Sidon from BOTW imo....even then he's been in 3 games, even if he's not part of the main core cast.

 

[Perkilator]

Let’s say that the next Smash game launches with 60-65 characters. That means roughly:

• 45 veterans
• 15 unique newcomers
• 5 Echo Fighters

That would be between what Smash 4 ended on (58 fighters) and what Smash Ultimate launched with (76 fighters, including Echo Fighters).

 

[Watuna4343]

I think they could still justify a Ultimate Deluxe with having FP1 and FP2 in the base game, plus bonus content and an extra or two FP, so i personally think it still is possible we get a port, it's the safest and most profitable option to do as well after all, i don't think BC completely erases the posibility of Ult Deluxe, after all WiiU had ports of Twilight Princess which was on the Wii for example.
I would prefer a Smash 6 myself, but a Ult Deluxe is also something nintendo could do.

I heavily, heavily disagree that this would justify this notion. Not only would this effectively set any purchase regarding Ultimate redundant (especially DLC, given that there are 2 versions of Smash Ultimate on the Switch and on one you have to buy characters whereas on the other you don't) but it's also more negotiation, more rights to get fighters from DLC to base roster. That sounds like a lot of work for nothing. Any way you slice it this idea of more Fighter Passes on Ultimate with the already existing DLC being base game is just a Wii U situation waiting to happen. Especially as others said, Switch 2 will be backwards compatible, an Ultimate Deluxe might be a far bigger flop than many think - again, this really sounds like a Wii U situation waiting to happen. Also, 8 years for Ultimate is ALOT of time, like the most spent on a Smash game, you say many people aren't ready for character cuts but on the other side, I say many want a new Smash game. In that sense, I genuinely don't know how profitable it really will be to ask people to buy Ultimate all over again just to get the DLC for base and then buy some more extra content in the form of fighter pass.

 

[Watuna4343]

Once again I want to bring up the possibility of keeping over 70% of the character roster retained, but taking big axes and cleavers to the stage roster instead.
I'll ask the armchair developers here--would a drastically smaller stage count positively affect the number of veteran characters returning, or would it be negligible in terms of time and resources? I'm willing to sacrifice stage variety for character variety to flourish further.

How much room will that leave for newcomers and new stages? Or new content in general. 70% of the roster is still a lot of work and it also won't allow for new stages. Believe it or not stages are part of the content too, to keep 70% of the newcomers and then take big axes on the stages, is still a lot of veterans to bring back and inevitably 3rd parties in there too, so rights involved in that too - that leaves very little room for actual newcomer content and even less so for new stages and thus will make the new game more of a cheap knock-off for Ultimate.

 

[DynamicSmasher]

The thing with Sylux, is that while he's not a new character and has existed for like 18 years (Hunters came out in '06 acording to the wiki). I think they would like Sylux to have a Prime 4 inspired moveset than a mostly made up one, this is asuming Sylux is a boss fight in Prime 4, if he isn't and it's a cutscene-only character somehow with no moves shown, i don't think he'll make it, if he's a boss, specially a important boss, i'd say he's very likely for DLC, though.



Yeah, i don't think Sylux is going to be in the base game at all, he is a DLC pick.
It's either Raven Beak or nothing in the base game like you said. Raven Beak is a cool character, but like i said, im not sure if Sakurai would include him, mostly because he's only in one game, he just doesn't tend to include those characters unless they're from a roating cast.
If there's a character that might break that "rule" is probably Prince Sidon from BOTW imo....even then he's been in 3 games, even if he's not part of the main core cast.

I doubt Sylux would be a cutscene only character. They've hyped him up too much for that. Well, unless he's actually the big bad of the second Metroid Prime trilogy, so we get to fight him in Prime 6. Sometime around 2037(which will also be roundabouts when the next Kid Icarus game will come out.)

I've mostly given up hope for a new non-triforce Zelda character by now. I had hoped for Midna, for Ghirahim, Skull Kid, or Impa, but I think Sakurai is satsfied with using Link/Zelda(and Shiek)/Ganondorf, while updating them occassionaly to represent new releases.

 

[Gengar84]

Not me. I'm no fan of SF6's 'realistic' graphics. But I like SF5's 'Slightly uprezzed version of SF4's 'plastic action figure'' graphics even less.

SF6 looks better than SF5. Just not in the way I wanted it to.

You mean the thing that killed the SF franchise for a decade?

Smash is never going to have a "SF3 moment". Because there's never going to be a Smash where Mario and Luigi are the only returning characters.

Something you can't prove without knowing how much it would have sold if it had had every Pokemon.

There are more obscure games that have Spirits.

Frankly with some 1500+ Spirits in Ultimate, there's no excuse for any Nintendo game to not have at least one Spirit.

Justice for Pro Wrestling and StarTropics! Because reasons!

Yeah, that’s true. I didn’t really care for any of the 3D Street Fighter’s aesthetics to be honest. Looking at SFV again, yeah, it’s not great. However, I appreciate them at least trying style. I never really cared for the trend of trying to make everything photorealistic when it used to be stylized like SFVI and FFVIIR/AC. I think my favorite aesthetics for fighting games are the ArcSysWorka games and 2XKO.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Yeah, that’s true. I didn’t really care for any of the 3D Street Fighter’s aesthetics to be honest. Looking at SFV again, yeah, it’s not great. However, I appreciate them at least trying style. I never really cared for the trend of trying to make everything photorealistic when it used to be stylized like SFVI and FFVIIR/AC. I think my favorite aesthetics for fighting games are the ArcSysWorka games and 2XKO.

Street fighter characters didn't look good in 3D until Smash.

A good reason to want Chun-Li.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Street fighter characters didn't look good in 3D until Smash.

A good reason to want Chun-Li.

Don’t give the internet ideas.

 

[Gengar84]

Street fighter characters didn't look good in 3D until Smash.

A good reason to want Chun-Li.

Yeah, Smash definitely has my favorite models for Ryu, Ken, and Guile. It also has my favorites for Cloud and Sephiroth. I just like Smash’s general esthetic more than the current direction both Street Fighter and Finsl Fantasy are going for. My absolute favorites are still the original Nomura character art for FFVII but Smash has my favorite 3D game models. I’d say Ultimate also has my favorite Ganondorf too.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Let’s say that the next Smash game launches with 60-65 characters. That means roughly:

• 45 veterans
• 15 unique newcomers
• 5 Echo Fighters

That would be between what Smash 4 ended on (58 fighters) and what Smash Ultimate launched with (76 fighters, including Echo Fighters).

There’s a lot of debate on who exactly those 45 veterans will be.

Spoiler: Expand for thoughts on veteran chances, since people don’t like hearing too much about cuts

Obviously, who I will dub the ‘Core 12’ are absolute shoe-ins, being:



If Smash was made today, besides maybe Wario, all twelve of these guys would make it in. I see no reason to remove ANY of them.

Apart from that, your obvious supporting picks would return too, both old and new, such as:


Characters like Ridley, Greninja, Isabelle, and Pyra/Mythra are a good lineup for future mainstays.

… That’s already over half of the veterans I can see coming back. We’re at 28 for now.

Let’s add another group of likely veterans, being your single game and/or legacy representatives.


More supplemental veterans. I think these guys likely have just one more game in them before being cut in the game after Smash 6 if current trends continue.


A 50/50 selection here for Mario and Pokémon though. No idea what they’ll do here. If there’s any previous cut I could see coming back, it’s Mewtwo, but I wouldn’t put all of my eggs in that basket.
(OR) (OR)
Right now, I’m feeling Rosalina and Incineroar to return.

And that just leaves the third parties, being…


It does suck, yes. But these are generally the faces I could see returning. 45 veterans. We’ll probably see more in DLC, but here we are.

Looking at newcomers, I think my standard selection works out, bar a few changes.

• Paper Mario (Super Mario)
• Toy Link (The Legend of Zelda)
• Ring Fit Trainee (Ring Fit Adventure)
• Mio (Xenoblade Chronicles)
• Pearl & Marina (Splatoon)
• Isaac (Golden Sun)
• Oatchi (Pikmin)
• Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
• Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
• Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
• Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
• Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
• Meowscarada (Pokémon)
• Alear (Fire Emblem)
• Waluigi (Super Mario)

15 unique base game newcomers. Maybe not as exciting as Ultimate’s, but it’s good for what it is.

And finally, the dread word Smash fans don’t like to hear… CLONES. First of all, veteran echoes.
, alongside either OR.

In terms of new echoes, here’s a list.

• Octoling (Splatoon), for
• Nia (Xenoblade Chronicles), for Mio
• Funky Kong (Donkey Kong), for

Yeah, this selection might not be much, but it’s at least fresh. It’s just how I could squeeze my top picks for Smash 6 into a roster smaller than Ultimate’s.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I doubt Sylux will make it honestly. I think the very reason Raven Beak is more recent and from a more traditional type of Metroid game which is also highly successful to the mainstream, on top of being a popular request that they will just simply pick this one character and be done with Metroid.

We already have a representative of the Prime series in Dark Samus too. They can just "Luigify" her and call it a day. 5 Metroid fighters seems more than enough.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Not me. I'm no fan of SF6's 'realistic' graphics. But I like SF5's 'Slightly uprezzed version of SF4's 'plastic action figure'' graphics even less.

SF6 looks better than SF5. Just not in the way I wanted it to.

Personally, I hope they go back to SFIV's style. The series having a comic book or an anime look fits so much better than having photorealistic look.

Also, the way I look a Street Fighter artstyle over the years is like this:

Street Fighter 1 and II games - Manga-style. Especially in II's case, where it resembles series like Fist of the North Star and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Love that look.
Street Fighter Alpha and III games - Anime-style. This was taken from the SFII anime movie. Love that.
Street Fighter IV and V - American comic book-style. That's the vibe I get from it. Not bad.
Street Fighter 6 - Photorealistic. Not the look I prefer for this series.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There’s a lot of debate on who exactly those 45 veterans will be.

Spoiler: Expand for thoughts on veteran chances, since people don’t like hearing too much about cuts

Obviously, who I will dub the ‘Core 12’ are absolute shoe-ins, being:



If Smash was made today, besides maybe Wario, all twelve of these guys would make it in. I see no reason to remove ANY of them.

Apart from that, your obvious supporting picks would return too, both old and new, such as:


Characters like Ridley, Greninja, Isabelle, and Pyra/Mythra are a good lineup for future mainstays.

… That’s already over half of the veterans I can see coming back. We’re at 28 for now.

Let’s add another group of likely veterans, being your single game and/or legacy representatives.


More supplemental veterans. I think these guys likely have just one more game in them before being cut in the game after Smash 6 if current trends continue.


A 50/50 selection here for Mario and Pokémon though. No idea what they’ll do here. If there’s any previous cut I could see coming back, it’s Mewtwo, but I wouldn’t put all of my eggs in that basket.
(OR) (OR)
Right now, I’m feeling Rosalina and Incineroar to return.

And that just leaves the third parties, being…


It does suck, yes. But these are generally the faces I could see returning. 45 veterans. We’ll probably see more in DLC, but here we are.

Looking at newcomers, I think my standard selection works out, bar a few changes.

• Paper Mario (Super Mario)
• Toy Link (The Legend of Zelda)
• Ring Fit Trainee (Ring Fit Adventure)
• Mio (Xenoblade Chronicles)
• Pearl & Marina (Splatoon)
• Isaac (Golden Sun)
• Oatchi (Pikmin)
• Chun-Li (Street Fighter)
• Shadow (Sonic the Hedgehog)
• Tom Nook (Animal Crossing)
• Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
• Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
• Meowscarada (Pokémon)
• Alear (Fire Emblem)
• Waluigi (Super Mario)

15 unique base game newcomers. Maybe not as exciting as Ultimate’s, but it’s good for what it is.

And finally, the dread word Smash fans don’t like to hear… CLONES. First of all, veteran echoes.
, alongside either OR.

In terms of new echoes, here’s a list.

• Octoling (Splatoon), for
• Nia (Xenoblade Chronicles), for Mio
• Funky Kong (Donkey Kong), for

Yeah, this selection might not be much, but it’s at least fresh. It’s just how I could squeeze my top picks for Smash 6 into a roster smaller than Ultimate’s.

I agree with your chosen veterans for the most part. You applied logic. That's rare.

Newcomers are good except for Toy Link. I don't have much faith in that character.