Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Thegameandwatch]

Sylux seems like a character that will be added eventually but as either DLC or even a later game. Maybe only if it’s a coincidence where they wanted to add him unrelated to Prime 4 but they added elements from that game later in development.

My opinion is that the developers started real development around the time when they were adding new spirits such as the ones from Scarlet and Violet and the Peach game. That’s only if the game is Smash.

 

[BrawlX10]

For my character chances ratings i generally have 4 tiers to classify them, this one is for the base game:

1.Likely: Tom Nook, Ring Fit Trainee, Waluigi, Octoling, Noah/Mio, Meowscarada....
2.Possible but i wouldn't say they're as likely as the ones above: (Possible Higher End): Squid Sisters, Oatchi, Alear, Sans, Chun-li, Shadow, Bandana Dee....
3.Possible but wouldn't bet on it either: (Possible Lower End): Raven Beak, Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno, Astral Chain Protag, Ayumi Tachibaya, Sidon, Magolor, Sylux...
4.Unlikely: Scorpion, Prince of Sable, Porky Minch, Big the Cat

Just examples, but yeah.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Takamaru remains Japan-exclusive and we know that it is a bit of a dealbreaker for Sakurai, what with Ayumi not getting further in development for that reason and why Lucas was lucky enough to stay in Brawl before Sakurai found out about his Japan-exclusivity. So Takamaru is staying out of the roster.

I mean technically Takamaru isn't Japan exclusive anymore? He saw a global release on 3DS Virtual Console, and I think Mysterious Murasame Castle is available in all regions on NSO right now.

He still doesn't really have any Western presence outside of that though, so I still agree on counting him out, just technically it's not for being Japan-only anymore lol

 

[Slartibartfast]

Sylux has little to no chance to be in the base roster if it was chosen in April 2022.

This new Smash is presumably being developed for the Switch 2, yes? That's 3 years before the console even launches. You'd think Nintendo would have the foresight to give details about future releases to Sakurai so the roster doesn't feel immediately outdated upon release. That was the case with Ultimate, where they gave him an early build of BotW to implement that game's version of Link. Reminder that Ultimate's base roster was decided on the date of the final Smash 4 presentation, in December 2015. We didn't even know about Incineroar's existance, let alone the names of the next generation of Pokemon games at the time (Sun and Moon were revealed in February 2016 IIRC). Because Metroid Prime 4 was in development for so long, Nintendo presumably already had plans for that game to launch alongside the Switch 2 (assuming it's a crossgen game like many people think it will be). I think it's fair to say that if Sakurai's new project is Smash, it would have content from games that aren't even announced yet. Maybe even content from Switch 2 launch games or beyond.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This new Smash is presumably being developed for the Switch 2, yes? That's 3 years before the console even launches. You'd think Nintendo would have the foresight to give details about future releases to Sakurai so the roster doesn't feel immediately outdated upon release. That was the case with Ultimate, where they gave him an early build of BotW to implement that game's version of Link. Reminder that Ultimate's base roster was decided on the date of the final Smash 4 presentation, in December 2015. We didn't even know about Incineroar's existance, let alone the names of the next generation of Pokemon games at the time (Sun and Moon were revealed in February 2016 IIRC). Because Metroid Prime 4 was in development for so long, Nintendo presumably already had plans for that game to launch alongside the Switch 2 (assuming it's a crossgen game like many people think it will be). I think it's fair to say that if Sakurai's new project is Smash, it would have content from games that aren't even announced yet. Maybe even content from Switch 2 launch games or beyond.

Pokemon always looks forward for characters in Smash. Greninja was selected among concept art before it even had a name in Smash 4, and considering Sun and Moon was released in November 2016, Pokemon Company presumably could give that much to Sakurai and probably more.

Pokemon is also the only franchise that we know looks forward like this, and it isn't likely to help a character like Sylux. Like Sakurai said with FE Awakening, if it had released six months later, it likely wouldn't have a character in Smash at all. So with Prime 4 coming out three years after this project plan (assuming it is Smash), that's way out of line based on what we know.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

They certainly got lucky that the fans really loved Greninja otherwise his inclusion would have been so awkward instead of being a "well duh" inclusion.


Like Incineroar.

 

[SharkLord]

On the topic of Bandana Dee, I still feel a bit skeptical. Not because of Sakurai bias, I truly don't think he's that petty. Forgotten Land will get a sufficient amount of content next game, supplemental content will probably be served much better than it was in Smash 4 -> Ultimate. But I remain uncertain of Sakurai's stance on specifically this character, whether or not Dee's gameplay hook, individual presence or 'x-factor' appeal to him.

I'll validate much of what SharkLord said because I've been saying the same thing, Smash 6 is arguably the first time Bandana Dee is entering the conversation as a "main character". Forgotten Land sets aside Bandana Dee as the designated Player 2 (as does Star Allies, sorta) so his active mainline roles have been more plentiful. Circa Ultimate I don't think his appearance in Robobot was very inspiring, and Rainbow Curse was probably not a consideration. Circa Smash 4 he had failed to establish himself as a recurring character yet, he was mostly coasting off RTDL's P4 role. Now it's inarguable that he's a permanent member of the crew, but I don't think it's all that confusing or mysterious why it hasn't worked out for him yet.

So my skepticism is entirely vibes based. It's plausible that these more consistent mainline appearances and his steady community support counteract whatever presumed disinterest Sakurai may have toward the character. And I can think of multiple ways Dee can be a compelling character that don't begin and end with simply being a spear user. One of them that I came up with, where Bandana Dee's spear is a resource that can be dropped and he can be disarmed from, is actually incredibly exciting and unique to me.

So this is by no means me saying it can't work, it won't happen, or that Bandana Dee can't be unique but... there's just something about the guy that prevents me from going all the way to predict him on the roster. He deserves it but ultimately if Sakurai isn't feeling him - for moveset / x-factor related reasons, not because muh modern Kirby - I really wouldn't be surprised. I mean, I'm a massive fan of Kirby, I know what he's worth, but on paper and outside the bubble the character is not the most exciting if we're keeping it a buck.

This might just be copium. but I do think a simpler, cutesy character has some solid appeal, even if it's not aimed at the same demographic as someone like Ridley or Kazuya. Lots of casual fans play Smash, and Kirby is generally aimed at casual audiences as well. Even if BWD doesn't have that conventionally flashy, hardcore factor, I can easily see kids or casual adult players going "Yo it's Bandana Dee!" or "Aw, this guy's cute" and being happy with him

I get the reservation with Skull Kid - bit harsher than I’d be but I get it - although I still don’t understand the blind confidence in Sylux. I know he’s technically a recurring character but if we suspect the roster may have been drafted at any point up to this very date... it would likely be too early to act on anything Prime 4 related there.

Which, in fairness, is why Raven Beak is placed higher (too high, but I digress) than Sylux to begin with. The presumed timing aligns much nicer with Metroid Dread. I’ll start taking Sylux more seriously when Prime 4 comes out and we can judge him accordingly, probably as a DLC candidate if anything. But up until then it’s kind of a nothing pick to me, founded on information that we don’t know yet / an appearance we know nothing about yet.

Yeah, Sylux heavily rides on recency bias. He represents a big new release, therefore he has good chances. This fandom has a tendency to latch onto whoever's from recent games, but most of these new faces actually do something.

And then there's Sylux. He'll do something eventually.
Soon.
Maybe this year.
Hopefully.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Pokemon is also the only franchise that we know looks forward like this

Not to be semantic but there's also Mario Odyssey, Yoshi's Crafted World, and Luigi's Mansion 3 content in launch Ultimate. So that's three franchises that look forward, Zelda, Mario and Pokemon. You might be right that adding a whole other character from a future release after the project plan was made was only done by Pokemon so far, and Metroid is not as high of a priority. Still, if it's less demanding content like stages, assist trophies, moveset implementations, character costumes or spirits/trophies/whatever collectable the next game has, I could see Prime 4 content being in there.

 

[SharkLord]

Not to be semantic but there's also Mario Odyssey, Yoshi's Crafted World, and Luigi's Mansion 3 content in launch Ultimate. So that's three franchises that look forward, Zelda, Mario and Pokemon. You might be right that adding a whole other character from a future release after the project plan was made was only done by Pokemon so far, and Metroid is not as high of a priority. Still, if it's less demanding content like stages, assist trophies, moveset implementations, character costumes or spirits/trophies/whatever collectable the next game has, I could see Prime 4 content being in there.

Yeah, supplementary content seems to be easier to add after the initial plan was locked down. I've mentioned earlier how Sakurai retooled a Kirby's Epic Yarn stage into the Great Cave Offensive after Yoshi's Wooly World was announced and took the "yarn stage" niche. But he's also gone on record talking about how once the roster's set up, he very rarely makes any changes. As far as we know, Pokemon is the only series where a fighter is chosen in advance, even if stages and ATs from upcoming games can be added during development.

 

[Guynamednelson]

He still doesn't really have any Western presence outside of that though

There's Nintendo Land and Samurai Warriors 3 as well.

Sakurai deciding against making Takamaru playable in Smash 4 due to Western unfamiliarity is kind of awkward in hindsight. It probably would've been the best time to do it, what with Nintendo Land having a Murasame Castle game and TMMC getting an international release during S4's development.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Not to be semantic but there's also Mario Odyssey, Yoshi's Crafted World, and Luigi's Mansion 3 content in launch Ultimate. So that's three franchises that look forward, Zelda, Mario and Pokemon. You might be right that adding a whole other character from a future release after the project plan was made was only done by Pokemon so far, and Metroid is not as high of a priority. Still, if it's less demanding content like stages, assist trophies, moveset implementations, character costumes or spirits/trophies/whatever collectable the next game has, I could see Prime 4 content being in there.

I mean yeah for stages and things sure, but for adding Sylux himself as a playable character is what I meant. Like theoretically MAYBE you could since he was in Hunters, but I don't think they'd make him playable in Smash for such a small role and Prime 4 is probably his best shot at it, but then it depends on Nintendo's DLC priorities and assumes he doesn't get added to some other role like an Assist Trophy.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

They certainly got lucky that the fans really loved Greninja otherwise his inclusion would have been so awkward instead of being a "well duh" inclusion.


Like Incineroar.

I think Mewtwo is the only Pokemon who was added because of popularity reasons outside of Smash 64.

Lucario’s movie was only recent when Brawl was planned and Diamond and Pearl didn’t release until fall of 2006.

Charizard is probably the most well known Pokemon outside of Pikachu but it was originally added to Smash because of Pokémon Trainer. Popularity was probably a secondary factor.

 

[BrawlX10]

Yeah, supplementary content seems to be easier to add after the initial plan was locked down. I've mentioned earlier how Sakurai retooled a Kirby's Epic Yarn stage into the Great Cave Offensive after Yoshi's Wooly World was announced and took the "yarn stage" niche. But he's also gone on record talking about how once the roster's set up, he very rarely makes any changes. As far as we know, Pokemon is the only series where a fighter is chosen in advance, even if stages and ATs from upcoming games can be added during development.

Yeah, it seems like stages, items, ATs, Music, Collectibles and the like are fair game.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Well, for the most part, in the past, we have talked about what characters would be cut in the next Smash Bros game.

Let's take a different approach on this.

What stages, items, Pokeball Pokemon and Assist Trophies do you all see being cut in the next Smash Bros., if it is okay to ask?

 

[Louie G.]

This might just be copium. but I do think a simpler, cutesy character has some solid appeal, even if it's not aimed at the same demographic as someone like Ridley or Kazuya. Lots of casual fans play Smash, and Kirby is generally aimed at casual audiences as well. Even if BWD doesn't have that conventionally flashy, hardcore factor, I can easily see kids or casual adult players going "Yo it's Bandana Dee!" or "Aw, this guy's cute" and being happy with him

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree, I just think we're more likely to get that served through characters like Tom Nook or maybe Oatchi personally. But if that kind of roster dynamic is in mind then Bandana Dee is also a perfectly valid choice. I just think his ties to a generic species make his case feel a bit more... flaccid? In the eyes of people who aren't as familiar with Kirby at least, but yeah to the uninformed either way they'll just see him as another cutie patootie.

Although something I didn't address that I think is an underdiscussed positive toward BWD's chances... he'd probably be one of the easiest characters in the game to animate, especially using Kirby as a base. Depends on what direction they opt to take with him, but if Dee is pretty straightforward there's a good chance they could wrap him up real easy like Jigglypuff or Wolf and save him for the back end of production.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Well, for the most part, in the past, we have talked about what characters would be cut in the next Smash Bros game.

Let's take a different approach on this.

What stages, items, Pokeball Pokemon and Assist Trophies do you all see being cut in the next Smash Bros., if it is okay to ask?

I think the Pokeball item will be revamped to include new Pokemon but several of the older ones will likely be changed or removed. An example is how Piplup was swapped with Oshawott in Smash 4.

There will be definitely one or two characters that are Assist Trophies that will be fighters with several of candidates that are always discussed. That has happened with Little Mac, Dark Samus and Isabelle.

Kapp'n feels like a character that will be cut as an Assist since Animal Crossing always has a new one each game. Maybe Vince or Arcade Bunny will also get cut?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Kapp'n feels like a character that will be cut as an Assist since Animal Crossing always has a new one each game.

I think there could've been a couple of coincidences between AC always getting a new Assist and losing their last one each game.

Obviously the Isabelle AT would've been cut because she's a fighter, but Mr. Resetti could've been cut because New Leaf was when they were starting to tone down his attitude.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Well, for the most part, in the past, we have talked about what characters would be cut in the next Smash Bros game.

Let's take a different approach on this.

What stages, items, Pokeball Pokemon and Assist Trophies do you all see being cut in the next Smash Bros., if it is okay to ask?

Well for stages, I'm hoping most of them are, to be frank, and the stage lineup is mostly new again minus some of Ultimate's new ones and more ubiquitous ones for their series like Boxing Ring lol

As for the rest of it, that's really hard to say tbh. Like I wouldn't mind if some items like the Beast Ball, Boomerang, or Staff went. For Pokemon, I could see some smaller Gen 7 pickings like Togedemaru leaving and I don't know why they introduced both Vulpix in the same game, especially when Fennekin is already on the Poke Ball list, so like regular Vulpix at least, and maaaybe one of Solgaleo or Lunala? Kinda like how Groudon got cut after Brawl and Palkia isn't joined by Dialga?

For Assist Trophies, I wanna say maaaaybe Arcade Bunny since the Badge Arcade is dead? But at the same time I feel like that gives him merit to stick around to sorta preserve that I guess in a way, so I dunno. I don't know if I can say "Isaac because he'll be playable" but if he's not, then I still want the AT to come back. That's all I can really think of for that though lol

 

[NintenRob]

Bandana Dee got me thinking.

How much value is there to being a fan favourite in the home franchise vs being a popular Smash Bros request, because sometimes those two things don't overlap.

Bandana Dee doesn't really apply here, as he's still a popular request. But despite his detractors in the Smash Fanbase, he's incredibly popular in the Kirby fanbase. Many of whom are waiting for the day he gets his own side mode and his constant presence has been welcomed with open arms.

Another example I can think of is probably Rosalina, among the Smash fanbase, she's less talked about and many fan rosters cut her while adding someone like Geno. Meanwhile in the Mario fanbase, she has become one of the most popular characters in the entire franchise and totally eclipses many of the popular Smash requests.

Geno himself is probably a good example of the opposite, he's got a very vocal Smash Bros fanbase, but the actual Mario fanbase tends to care more for later rpg characters like Fawful and Vivienne

 

[Louie G.]

Mr. Resetti could've been cut because New Leaf was when they were starting to tone down his attitude.

This seems far more likely, and yeah Isabelle was clearly a matter of circumstance. If she wasn't playable somehow I'm sure that she would still be an AT. Animal Crossing has more than enough characters to sustain two different ATs anyway, so Kapp'n can stick around and we can still get a new one like... I dunno, maybe Gulliver crash lands onto the stage? Something silly.

I'd love if they brought back Resetti, but that seems pretty unlikely given his continued retirement. Ah well, best let him get his rest.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't know why I randomly thought of a trailer idea that starts as a bubbly one for Bandana Dee then switches to a serious one with E.M.M.I.

I guess the contrast is appealing.

 

[BrawlX10]

Well, for the most part, in the past, we have talked about what characters would be cut in the next Smash Bros game.

Let's take a different approach on this.

What stages, items, Pokeball Pokemon and Assist Trophies do you all see being cut in the next Smash Bros., if it is okay to ask?

Okay, there we go:

Stages: Like 90% of them.
Items: Gust Bellows, Ramblin' Evil Mushroom, Fire Bar, Steel Diver, Backshield.
Pokemon: Keldeo, Togedemaru, Spewpa, Marshadow, Alolan Raichu.
Assist Trophies: Waluigi, Nightmare, Arcade Rabbit, Vince, Willy Capsule, Burrowing Snaget.

Cuts based mostly in gut feelings, so it's super subjective.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This seems far more likely, and yeah Isabelle was clearly a matter of circumstance. If she wasn't playable somehow I'm sure that she would still be an AT. Animal Crossing has more than enough characters to sustain two different ATs anyway, so Kapp'n can stick around and we can still get a new one like... I dunno, maybe Gulliver crash lands onto the stage? Something silly.

I'd love if they brought back Resetti, but that seems pretty unlikely given his continued retirement. Ah well, best let him get his rest.

I for one would love if alongside Tom Nook becoming playable, we get Redd as an AT that gives out items, and while some are real, some are counterfeit and either simply don't work right (like a Beetle that drags people up a bit before breaking or a Pitfall that launches upwards instead of burying) or may even hurt the player if it's like a healing item or something like that.

Bro spawns a Smash Ball? Better BELIEVE that Smash Ball's gonna blow up.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't know why they introduced both Vulpix in the same game

The marketing push Alolan Vulpix got carried over to its Kanto counterpart as well.

That and I think they were reusing resources, it looks like both forms use the same animations.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don't know why I randomly thought of a trailer idea that starts as a bubbly one for Bandana Dee then switches to a serious one with E.M.M.I.

I guess the contrast is appealing.

Honestly if a trailer like that happened, like Bandana Dee is in a scary darkened area and an EMMI attacks him, it cuts to gameplay, Bandana Dee parries and attacks back, and the two go at it in normal Smash combat, I'd be so down for that, that sounds like a peak trailer to me lol

 

[HyperSomari64]

What stages, items, Pokeball Pokemon and Assist Trophies do you all see being cut in the next Smash Bros., if it is okay to ask?

Stages: 75m (Easy!)

 

[SharkLord]

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree, I just think we're more likely to get that served through characters like Tom Nook or maybe Oatchi personally. But if that kind of roster dynamic is in mind then Bandana Dee is also a perfectly valid choice. I just think his ties to a generic species make his case feel a bit more... flaccid? In the eyes of people who aren't as familiar with Kirby at least, but yeah to the uninformed either way they'll just see him as another cutie patootie.

Although something I didn't address that I think is an underdiscussed positive toward BWD's chances... he'd probably be one of the easiest characters in the game to animate, especially using Kirby as a base. Depends on what direction they opt to take with him, but if Dee is pretty straightforward there's a good chance they could wrap him up real easy like Jigglypuff or Wolf and save him for the back end of production.

Yeah, that's a good point

I think the Waddle Dees are slightly flatter and more angular than Kirby, but it's only apparent once you look closely at them. Aside from that they're just round little balls with similar round arm-nubs and feet, and I'm pretty sure they share some animations in the Kirby games too, like the jump, crouch, dodge, and slide. Even if he'd have a fully original moveset, they could easily tweak Kirby's model and reuse some basic animations for BWD, and save themselves the extra work.

It's also worth mentioning that Kirby's a solid B-list series now, but I don't know if it's big enough yet that you can show Waddle Dees to people on the street and have them widely recognized, at least in the West. This is mostly running on vibes and guesswork, but I feel like the people who aren't into Kirby but know that Waddle Dees are basic enemies are a somewhat slim band, compared to the amount of people who are fans and people who aren't familiar enough to recognize Waddle Dees.

Especially considering the big influx of newcomers Forgotten Land brought in; That's likely left a lot of people with an image of Waddle Dees as your friends and not a common mook, given the whole point of the game is to free them. Granted, that still makes Waddle Dees as a generic species, but I feel like the characters running your hub town that you can chat with are a little more prominent than a common enemy to mow down. I think? Might just be vibes there, but that's how I see it.

 

[Louie G.]

It's also worth mentioning that Kirby's a solid B-list series now, but I don't know if it's big enough yet that you can show Waddle Dees to people on the street and have them widely recognized, at least in the West. This is mostly running on vibes and guesswork, but I feel like the people who aren't into Kirby but know that Waddle Dees are basic enemies are a somewhat slim band, compared to the amount of people who are fans and people who aren't familiar enough to recognize Waddle Dees.

I want to clarify, I'm not really taking the "guy on the street" stance here, I suspect a lot of people who play Smash know what a Waddle Dee is. I'm just judging off the front that Bandana Dee seemingly has a lot of (ignorant) detractors who undermine his importance. I see tweets taking cheap jabs at him go viral fairly often, it's my understanding that a lot of the greater community sees him as kind of lame.

Whether that's fair or not, it makes me wonder whether or not we're in kind of a bubble that takes him seriously. I think there's a disparity between east and west fans as well, he has always been popular in Japan and Kirby is a massive brand overseas. So what we see doesn't tell the full story, but it makes me question those "vibes" around Dee and speculate whether or not he's a character that Sakurai believes people would want to play as. It's not so much about cool factor, because I think cutesy characters like Isabelle pass the test quite easily. BWD has been further establishing himself as an independent character but it's a bit of an uphill climb when your name is still "Bandana Waddle Dee". I swear if he was just named Fred or something half the arguments would be gone.

I do like your point about Forgotten Land though, less so about introducing new fans but more that Waddle Dees have begun to transition into a more friendly role over being the generic mooks. I'm sure they will still fill that position ever so often, but Forgotten Land establishes them in a much different light than we're used to. And the Waddle Dees themselves have always been marketable faces second to only Kirby. So there's no doubt people love these little guys, but the jury is out on whether or not they feel that's translatable to a good addition to Smash.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Since we were speaking on items a bit, I do also think the Beehive item will be name changed to Wasp Nest to match with New Horizons' new deserved pro-bee/anti-wasp agenda. It won't change how it looks or works, but I do think it'll change names.

EDIT: Also in regards to Louie G. 's post about Bandana Dee, I read recently that the team was going to call him "Bandee" but decided not to because he wasn't supposed to be so much of an individual so much as a representative of the Waddle Dees themselves? But like... They've definitely made him an individual, he speaks in multiple side games and has a set personality full of varied opinions and traits, and naming him Bandee doesn't stop him from accomplishing his original intention (I mean there's a "dee" in the name), so I really wish they'd just retroactively make that a thing so he's a named character and his full name doesn't potentially cause issues in the character select screen lmao

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just think a large portion of the fandom do have a bias against most cutesy or casual characters. Isabelle had to deal with it. Animal Crossing newcomers have to deal with it, and arguably I think BWD has to deal with it too.

Now, characters like BWD and Tom Nook are still pretty popular (my poll proved that) and the dev teams that work with those characters clearly see them as something special. But the Smash fandom is very particular about the scrimblos they support, for better and for worse.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I just think a large portion of the fandom do have a bias against most cutesy or casual characters. Isabelle had to deal with it. Animal Crossing newcomers have to deal with it, and arguably I think BWD has to deal with it too.

Now, characters like BWD and Tom Nook are still pretty popular (my poll proved that) and the dev teams that work with those characters clearly see them as something special. But the Smash fandom is very particular about the scrimblos they support, for better and for worse.

I feel like Oatchi had to deal with that even around here for a while too until Kingsonn Dededoo posted that really good moveset for him, though I may also be conflating it with the "Oatchi is too recent and feels too contemporary" stuff lol

Nowadays, Oatchi's biggest struggles are Smash's timeframe of development lol

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

I had a thought.

Nintendo picked the DLC characters last game, right? Also, there were originally five characters for Fighters Pass 2, right? Before Sora got added as the sixth one?

Anyhow, if there were originally five characters for FP2 in Ultimate, did Sakurai convince Nintendo to add Sora as an extra character or something? I mean, I might not understand the process completely as to how the character choosing worked, but I am asking because I am not sure if it was Sakurai or Nintendo that picked Sora, given how Sora was said to have had the most votes of any character in the ballot.

 

[SharkLord]

I want to clarify, I'm not really taking the "guy on the street" stance here, I suspect a lot of people who play Smash know what a Waddle Dee is. I'm just judging off the front that Bandana Dee seemingly has a lot of (ignorant) detractors who undermine his importance. I see tweets taking cheap jabs at him go viral fairly often, it's my understanding that a lot of the greater community sees him as kind of lame.

Whether that's fair or not, it makes me wonder whether or not we're in kind of a bubble that takes him seriously. I think there's a disparity between east and west fans as well, he has always been popular in Japan and Kirby is a massive brand overseas. So what we see doesn't tell the full story, but it makes me question those "vibes" around Dee and speculate whether or not he's a character that Sakurai believes people would want to play as. It's not so much about cool factor, because I think cutesy characters like Isabelle pass the test quite easily. BWD has been further establishing himself as an independent character but it's a bit of an uphill climb when your name is still "Bandana Waddle Dee". I swear if he was just named Fred or something half the arguments would be gone.

I do like your point about Forgotten Land though, less so about introducing new fans but more that Waddle Dees have begun to transition into a more friendly role over being the generic mooks. I'm sure they will still fill that position ever so often, but Forgotten Land establishes them in a much different light than we're used to. And the Waddle Dees themselves have always been marketable faces second to only Kirby. So there's no doubt people love these little guys, but the jury is out on whether or not they feel that's translatable to a good addition to Smash.

Yeah, I've also seen that negative sentiment from the greater community. And I do agree SmashBoards is also somewhat of a bubble; We often question the usual unspoken rules and debate less likely characters, but outside these forums names like Master Chief are somewhat doubted due to their lack of Nintendo presence. I'm just pointing out that the greater Smash community is also something of a bubble in and of itself; Sakurai does listen to the dedicated fans that make posts online, but Smash also appeals to casual fans who probably aren't as online and don't attatch the same "lame" stigma to BWD. Though, these people might be scrolling or watching videos without commenting and absorbing some of the geberal Smash community's views, and since they're not online we can't really track their opinions, so take that as you will.

For what it's worth, Swamp's poll had BWD score as high as second place, and he also scored second on SourceGaming's last megapoll, which runs counter to the "Hat Goomba" stigma often attatched to him. It's undeniable he has some detractors, but those polls make me wonder if he has a LOT of detractors or if they're just vocal ones, especially considering Swamp's poll had infinite votes and gauges how well-recieved a character would be overall

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I had a thought.

Nintendo picked the DLC characters last game, right? Also, there were originally five characters for Fighters Pass 2, right? Before Sora got added as the sixth one?

Anyhow, if there were originally five characters for FP2 in Ultimate, did Sakurai convince Nintendo to add Sora as an extra character or something? I mean, I might not understand the process completely as to how the character choosing worked, but I am asking because I am not sure if it was Sakurai or Nintendo that picked Sora, given how Sora was said to have had the most votes of any character in the ballot.

My understanding is that Sakurai just happened to bump into a Disney Japan employee so he just got the ball rolling and asked.

Probably went like this:

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I had a thought.

Nintendo picked the DLC characters last game, right? Also, there were originally five characters for Fighters Pass 2, right? Before Sora got added as the sixth one?

Anyhow, if there were originally five characters for FP2 in Ultimate, did Sakurai convince Nintendo to add Sora as an extra character or something? I mean, I might not understand the process completely as to how the character choosing worked, but I am asking because I am not sure if it was Sakurai or Nintendo that picked Sora, given how Sora was said to have had the most votes of any character in the ballot.

My guess is the second Sakurai told Nintendo that he managed to find a way to get to Disney, they were absolutely on board with getting Sora in.

This kind of opportunity doesn't grow on trees so it makes sense to capitalize on it.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

My guess is the second Sakurai told Nintendo that he managed to find a way to get to Disney, they were absolutely on board with getting Sora in.

This kind of opportunity doesn't grow on trees so it makes sense to capitalize on it.

This one makes the most sense to me. Thanks for explaining, for I appreciate it!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

My understanding is that Sakurai just happened to bump into a Disney Japan employee so he just got the ball rolling and asked.

Yeah, that's basically what happened.

Fittingly, this is also how Nomura got the opportunity to make Kingdom Hearts in the first place so this is the most poetic example of things going full circle when it comes to Smash Bros. characters.

And it's a good thing it happened and went smoothly. Few things give me goosebumps more than seeing Mario and Sora shake hands. It's insane we actually got to see Ultimate's roster get as bonkers as it did, even if it will inevitably make us VERY spoiled in future speculation.

 

[Dukefire]

Smash Bros has made so much excitement and salt in various levels for 30+ years.
It also did make some people have tunnel vision and/or stuck within the box with no room to think outside.

Not that I'm complaining, but being disconnected from fresh news since Sora's reveal being the end for Ultimate. Hope it change as soon news comes back with Sakurai once it is ready.

 

[BrawlX10]

I wouldn't mind if most Assist Trophies and Pokemon are new this time around.
Specially AT there's so many characters that could make cool ATs, it could also be cool if series like Darkstalkers or Jet Set Radio that likely won't get playable reps got the AT treatement instead.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I wouldn't mind if most Assist Trophies and Pokemon are new this time around.
Specially AT there's so many characters that could make cool ATs, it could also be cool if series like Darkstalkers or Jet Set Radio that likely won't get playable reps got the AT treatement instead.

I feel like a Jet set radio assist trophy would bump the age rating up a bit because it would most likely involve Beat running around the arena spraying grafiti everywhere.

The games have a disclamer about that.

Would be pretty cool though.

I want to see Klonoa be an assist trophy, i think he'd be a perfect character for that.