Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dukefire]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

 

[dezeray112]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

I'd be fine between Shadow or Eggman, but I still predict Shadow as the more likely Sonic character to become a playable character for the next Smash.

 

[Dukefire]

I'd be fine between Shadow or Eggman, but I still predict Shadow as the more likely Sonic character to become a playable character for the next Smash.

I can also say that Year of Shadow and Sonic 3 movie may have "assisted" his popularity to ascend.

This is why I don’t think Cuphead is likely to be upgraded like Sans or Shantae are. Cuphead is a great character in a great game but its time has sort of passed by now. It doesn’t have the same long history and years of requests as Shantae or the, for lack of a better term, bizarre cultural shift of Undertale. They played Megalovania for the friggin’ Pope.
Not underselling Cuphead’s impact on the industry itself, I just don’t think it’s really become a big Smash character request like the other two have

When it comes to Indie characters that can still hold weight to possibly join the next Smash Bros.
Shantae: Wayforward's flagship that have a LONG history with Nintendo and humble beginnings.
Sans: Undertale is still relevant with Toby Fox meeting Sakurai at his home. So, possible chance
Shovel Knight: the knight with a shovel that has crossover with plenty of Indie games and now Smash Bros as an Assist Trophy.
I think these three maintains relevance while others like Cuphead was a come and go title that more likely had one shot before being extinguished.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

Shadow as an echo feels like a natural addition, and while I can't speak for ballot support, I remember him being one of the most popular requests for base Ultimate, even before the Grinch Leak came out. I could see Tails being chosen for legacy or Robotnik if Sakurai likes the moveset ideas he comes up with, but for now I think Shadow has a very solid mix of years long fan support and reusable assets in terms of the assist and moveset, although all potential echoes naturally fall into this category to some degree.

 

[LimeTH]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

Tails or Eggman. If Shadow is only going to be a Sonic echo I don’t want him because why would anyone want more of that boring moveset?

 

[Louie G.]

Not underselling Cuphead’s impact on the industry itself, I just don’t think it’s really become a big Smash character request like the other two have

I do think Cuphead at least stands tall as a monumental achievement, so I think if they wanted to give it a character nod it would still be justified. In my perspective it's also like, well, we should celebrate games and characters on artistic merit and not punish them for not becoming IP or something. That's something I feel a little uncomfy with about speculation sometimes, the expectation that a series must extend itself in order to remain worthy and relevant.

But I do think you're right in that Cuphead's lasting influence doesn't have the sheer momentum of Undertale, and while I think it surpasses Shantae in the public eye that Smash-specific context does benefit Shantae's case further. It's telling that despite having a deluxe Mii Costume and song like Sans, that Cuphead is often left out of the conversation. But I will say I think they're a great candidate for an Assist Trophy next game. And I hope we get a few more songs too!

 

[Dukefire]

I do think Cuphead at least stands tall as a monumental achievement, so I think if they wanted to give it a character nod it would still be justified. In my perspective it's also like, well, we should celebrate games and characters on artistic merit and not punish them for not becoming IP or something. That's something I feel a little uncomfy with about speculation sometimes, the expectation that a series must extend itself in order to remain worthy and relevant.

But I do think you're right in that Cuphead's lasting influence doesn't have the sheer momentum of Undertale, and while I think it surpasses Shantae in the public eye that Smash-specific context does benefit Shantae's case further. It's telling that despite having a deluxe Mii Costume and song like Sans, that Cuphead is often left out of the conversation. But I will say I think they're a great candidate for an Assist Trophy next game. And I hope we get a few more songs too!

Shantae's relevance still surprises me. She's like the quiet kid that sticks around and doesn't usually want attention until they do something. 6 games developed years apart and yet each one has people anticipate her new title since Pirate's Curse (arguably is her best one despite no animal transformations.).

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'm honestly surprised that we haven't just received unique victory themes for each fighter yet. I guess it's a dev time issue, but it would go a long way to adding some identity to each character.

I prefer it the way it is, to be honest. Just like sticking with the most popular victory theme or stage clear theme or ending theme from a series is good enough for me.

 

[Louie G.]

I prefer it the way it is, to be honest. Just like sticking with the most popular victory theme or stage clear theme or ending theme from a series is good enough for me.

I think my issue is just.... it's not consistent. We're somewhere in the middle of having these shared series victory themes and having original themes. Rosalina, K. Rool, the Awakening characters get original themes. Bowser, Meta Knight, Ridley get variants. Luigi, Ganondorf, Wolf share their default series themes.

If the Awakening crew gets id Purpose, and Corrin and Byleth get their own themes, why is Ike strapped with the normal FE theme? Why do the Mother kids have to share a theme then? If Dark Pit has his character theme, why haven't we given Dedede his? It's just this lopsided nature that makes this situation a bit frustrating to me. On principle I wouldn't mind if they stuck to their guns on making it consistent across a series but they haven't, so if they're gonna do this I'd rather them just go all the way with it next time instead of being so... messy, I guess?

We're overdue for new themes anyway. If I hear the same Brawl arrangements for a fourth time, nearly 20 years later, my head will explode.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I wonder if Cuphead would be best represented by a stage. It’d show off the game’s art style the best, and we could get an appearance from one of the game’s well-known bosses to add a bit of chaos.

 

[Arcanir]

Quoting myself once again from the Unpopular Smash Opinions thread:

I think the thing that gets me is how inconsistent they are with each other.

• Some victory themes are updated with Ultimate and others are still from Brawl.
• Some got unnecessarily cut down like Yoshi's while others kept their length or go even longer.
• Speaking of the latter, some can have longer/lingering themes like Joker's, but others like the aforementioned Inklings get cut off.
• Certain characters can get unique themes, but others don't. Wolf and Ganondorf are the only rivals/villains without their own theme despite having motifs associated with them, and Ike and Roy don't have their own theme while the other FE characters do (aside from Marth of course).

I understand that not everything needs to be updated, but it does stick out when things are not consistent.

 

[Laniv]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

My answer for this is always Tails

 

[Dukefire]

I think the thing that gets me is how inconsistent they are with each other.

• Some victory themes are updated with Ultimate and others are still from Brawl.
• Some got unnecessarily cut down like Yoshi's while others kept their length or go even longer.
• Speaking of the latter, some can have longer/lingering themes like Joker's, but others like the aforementioned Inklings get cut off.
• Certain characters can get unique themes, but others don't. Wolf and Ganondorf are the only rivals/villains without their own theme despite having motifs associated with them, and Ike and Roy don't have their own theme while the other FE characters do (aside from Marth of course).

I understand that not everything needs to be updated, but it does stick out when things are not consistent.

Development is a time consuming and straining process. Easier said than done. Everyone is Here is the biggest roster and stages to boot. Makes sense that some had to be left alone to focus on other ideas.

 

[BrawlX10]

I feel like Shovel Knight chances are a bit....overrated for a lack of better them, i feel like his popularity has faded considerably, i think his boat has sailed if i'm begin honest.
I think Shantae does still have a chance though, altrough not as likely as Sans or Hollow Knight, i think she's more likely than Shovel Knight at least in my eyes.
Touhou is also an underrated pick for a indie rep, i don't think it's as likely as Underatle or Hollow Knight, but i think it could happen in certain circumstances.

 

[SharkLord]

Shantae's relevance still surprises me. She's like the quiet kid that sticks around and doesn't usually want attention until they do something. 6 games developed years apart and yet each one has people anticipate her new title since Pirate's Curse (arguably is her best one despite no animal transformations.).

If I remember correctly, Shantae had been a little cult classic until the Half-Genie Hero Kickstarter, right? That campaign was around the mid-2010's indie surge, so coupled with Shantae's cult legacy the campaign managed to hit it pretty big. And that was also roughly around the ballot, I think. Hell, I think WayForward themselves went "C'mon guys, let's get Shantae in Smash!" around that time.

And y'know what? Fair. I'd want my OCs in Smash too, so if you have an actual game and an actual chance you might as well take it. But that aside, I think the HGH Kickstarter running alongside the ballot was timed well enough to cement her in the Smash fanbase's eye.

 

[Arcanir]

Development is a time consuming and straining process. Easier said than done. Everyone is Here is the biggest roster and stages to boot. Makes sense that some had to be left alone to focus on other ideas.

I'd say it's more time consuming to cut down Yoshi or the Zelda themes then leaving them alone, but they still did it anyway, so on some level I'd assume it's more artistic direction then development constraints.

Regardless, it's still a critique to have as some characters and themes are given more effort than others and it makes things feel uneven. If you're going to make three new themes for the FE characters it would've been nice to go back for Roy and Ike, but now they feel like they just got the short straw.

 

[Shinuto]

I feel like Shovel Knight chances are a bit....overrated for a lack of better them, i feel like his popularity has faded considerably, i think his boat has sailed if i'm begin honest.
I think Shantae does still have a chance though, altrough not as likely as Sans or Hollow Knight, i think she's more likely than Shovel Knight at least in my eyes.
Touhou is also an underrated pick for a indie rep, i don't think it's as likely as Underatle or Hollow Knight, but i think it could happen in certain circumstances.

You say Hollow Knight but I feel with Silksong taking FOREVER to come out with still ZERO news since its initial reveal in 2019. he's in the same boat as Shovel Knight. He didn't even get content in Smash like the others.

 

[Dukefire]

You say Hollow Knight but I feel with Silksong taking FOREVER to come out with still ZERO news since its initial reveal in 2019. he's in the same boat as Shovel Knight. He didn't even get content in Smash like the others.

It has been 6 years since Silksong was announced. I feel bad for those that has been waiting for that long. Then again, all that work is hand drawn like cuphead.

And y'know what? Fair. I'd want my OCs in Smash too, so if you have an actual game and an actual chance you might as well take it. But that aside, I think the HGH Kickstarter running alongside the ballot was timed well enough to cement her in the Smash fanbase's eye.

She still sticks around despite what other people say. So, we will see what happens next.

If you're going to make three new themes for the FE characters it would've been nice to go back for Roy and Ike, but now they feel like they just got the short straw.

You win some, you lose some.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While the Knight from Hollow Knight will miss the boat as far as being an actual fighter, fans will be compensated via the character getting two Mii costumes: his default and this one:

Spoiler

 

[Dukefire]

While the Knight from Hollow Knight will miss the boat as far as being an actual fighter, fans will be compensated via the character getting two Mii costumes: his default and this one:

Spoiler

Wait, THAT cosmedic is present?!

It does also kick at the player for probably dying a lot.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

Knuckles for me. He fits the secondary helper function Tails has, and the rivalry part Shadow has. But am not a Sonic fan in the slightest. I just like Knuckles specifically.

 

[RileyXY1]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

I'm going all in on Tails. Not only does he have the biggest legacy, but also has had the longest presence in Smash circles, which dates back even before Brawl's release, where EGM posted an infamous April Fool's Day joke that claimed that you can unlock Sonic and Tails in Melee by defeating 20 enemies in Cruel Melee.

 

[ninjahmos]

I've said this before, but I hope they change Sonic's victory theme to a better version of the Sonic 3 Act Clear theme. Like this one:

 

[Slime Scholar]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

Shadow is an obvious pick because of his popularity, but my vote is for Tails. He’s classic, and is one of the most central characters in the series outside of Sonic himself and Eggman. He’s basically Sonic’s Luigi.

 

[ninjahmos]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

As cool as Silver would be, he'd probably have to get his own game before he has a chance for Smash. Tails and Knuckles would also be pretty cool, as well as Eggman, but overall I prefer Shadow.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

I remember that time where I kinda bamboozled myself into believing The Knight was one of the characters in the fighters pass, though the details surrounding that are vague.

I really did think the lill guy could translate so well into Smash. Honestly still do but unfortunately the ship has long sailed timing wise. Silksong's infamous limbo development has killed quite some momentum for the franchise. It just can't currently stack up to the legacy and hype around Undertale/Deltarune as far as indies are concerned.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I've said this before, but I hope they change Sonic's victory theme to a better version of the Sonic 3 Act Clear theme. Like this one:

Sonic is also one of the few characters whose theme is directly taken from another game. Ultimate version is slightly edited because that’s the trend in general.

 

[Louie G.]

Sonic is also one of the few characters whose theme is directly taken from another game. Ultimate version is slightly edited because that’s the trend in general.

Weirdly consistent trend between the Sega characters, I wonder if there's some reason for that.

I really can't stand that Sonic still has his 06 theme though, I always disliked how muddy that one sounds. Mostly compared to the aforementioned Adventure theme where, if you're gonna copy paste one over from a different game, at least pick the one that matches Sonic's energy and swagger.

 

[BrawlX10]

For the 2nd Sonic rep i think Shadow makes the most sense, i think he would be easier to develop as a semi-clone and he's extremely popular.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think my issue is just.... it's not consistent. We're somewhere in the middle of having these shared series victory themes and having original themes. Rosalina, K. Rool, the Awakening characters get original themes. Bowser, Meta Knight, Ridley get variants. Luigi, Ganondorf, Wolf share their default series themes.

If the Awakening crew gets id Purpose, and Corrin and Byleth get their own themes, why is Ike strapped with the normal FE theme? Why do the Mother kids have to share a theme then? If Dark Pit has his character theme, why haven't we given Dedede his? It's just this lopsided nature that makes this situation a bit frustrating to me. On principle I wouldn't mind if they stuck to their guns on making it consistent across a series but they haven't, so if they're gonna do this I'd rather them just go all the way with it next time instead of being so... messy, I guess?

We're overdue for new themes anyway. If I hear the same Brawl arrangements for a fourth time, nearly 20 years later, my head will explode.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if characters from the same series shared one victory theme, with just a few variants.

I know some people might think it's time for Luigi to have his own victory theme from Luigi's Mansion. But to me, he'll always be the other half of the Super Mario Bros. That's just how I grew up on the series. So it just feels natural that he shares a victory theme with Mario, with that being the SMB1 theme.

I've said this before, but I hope they change Sonic's victory theme to a better version of the Sonic 3 Act Clear theme. Like this one:

Yeah, I've always liked that version better than the Sonic 06 version.

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

For me, it's either Knuckles or Shadow.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Gonna be honest, I kinda don't want another Sonic character until the dev team can prove they can make the Sonic character that's already in game have a good moveset.

The way the series is treated in Smash, moveset aside, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that they'd deliver on new Sonic content anyways. My worst case nightmare scenario would be that they make Shadow an echo of (an unchanged) Sonic and call it a day. And I don't even see that as being that out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Louie G.]

Gonna be honest, I kinda don't want another Sonic character until the dev team can prove they can make the Sonic character that's already in game have a good moveset.

Yeah this usually goes hand in hand with my endorsement. I'm not interested in a Shadow variant on Sonic's moveset when it's already so obtrusive. But I'm holding onto some optimism that Sonic's current competitive dominance / the series actually having sufficient momentum again will motivate both Sega and Sakurai to come up with some new ideas.

As for the others, even if they're quite a bit different than Sonic, I think that then creates a weird dichotomy within their series. If Tails and Knuckles join with an actual functional, fun moveset then it will stand out a lot against the blandness / brokenness that is Sonic's. I'm assuming unless it's Eggman any of these options are going to overlap at least a little bit with Sonic's basic moveset design.

I know some people might think it's time for Luigi to have his own victory theme from Luigi's Mansion. But to me, he'll always be the other half of the Super Mario Bros. That's just how I grew up on the series. So it just feels natural that he shares a victory theme with Mario, with that being the SMB1 theme.

I don't mind Luigi having the SMB theme either, I just brought him up as an example of a "may as well" case. Since he has a theme so closely associated with him, it would feel justified enough to follow through on that alongside all those other ones. But like you said, if they wanna keep it consistent... I'm cool with that, just actually be consistent.

 

[Kirbeh]

By default, I'd rather each series have a victory theme shared by their respective characters. Go back to a style similar to Melee.

After that they could still do the character specific themes, they'd just be something you have to toggle in the music menu. That way players could change them on each character individually if they want.

I'd like the same for VO options too. Let players mix and match different languages like you can in Street Fighter. EN/JP for characters that speak and Smash/Classic options for so you can swap between the animal noises and actual series voices.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?

Shadow as an Echo. Tails as an AT. Dr. Eggman piloting the Death Egg Robot as a Boss.

I wonder if Cuphead would be best represented by a stage. It’d show off the game’s art style the best, and we could get an appearance from one of the game’s well-known bosses to add a bit of chaos.

I'll be honest, I kinda don't want Cuphead as a Fighter, because I feel like he'd compete directly with a Contra or Metal Slug character. And I want those way more than I want Cuphead.

Also, I think Miis and ATs are the appropriate level of representation for indie characters.

 

[Megadoomer]

If another Sonic character joins the fight, which one would you prefer?
Metal Sonic, Shadow, Eggman, Knuckles, Amy Tails, Silver, or any other character? (Sorry to not be rude, but there are so many Sonic characters to list.)

I'd prefer Eggman, though between Sonic the Hedgehog 3, the updated Sonic Generations, and his general popularity combined with how he'd be relatively easier to include (though he could be a unique character), I'd guess that it would realistically be Shadow.

(I'd like to see Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, or Shadow, but I'm assuming that just one new Sonic character would be added even if they could easily go overboard with it)

 

[ninjahmos]

Gonna be honest, I kinda don't want another Sonic character until the dev team can prove they can make the Sonic character that's already in game have a good moveset.

The way the series is treated in Smash, moveset aside, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that they'd deliver on new Sonic content anyways. My worst case nightmare scenario would be that they make Shadow an echo of (an unchanged) Sonic and call it a day. And I don't even see that as being that out of the realm of possibility.

Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to agree with you. Sonic's moveset and expressiveness could both use some work, and Shadow wouldn't work as an Echo anyway.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to agree with you. Sonic's moveset and expressiveness could both use some work, and Shadow wouldn't work as an Echo anyway.

How does this even happen?

 

[LimeTH]

Also, I think Miis and ATs are the appropriate level of representation for indie characters.

Why is that? Just because they aren’t made or owned by some big corporation doesn’t make them lesser choices.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Shadow as an Echo. Tails as an AT. Dr. Eggman piloting the Death Egg Robot as a Boss.

I'll be honest, I kinda don't want Cuphead as a Fighter, because I feel like he'd compete directly with a Contra or Metal Slug character. And I want those way more than I want Cuphead.

Also, I think Miis and ATs are the appropriate level of representation for indie characters.

Contra kinda inspired Cuphead's gameplay, didn't it? It would seem kind of wrong anyway to see an indie run and gun character with only one get in over a pioneer in the genre that's got almost 20 games in its series.

 

[ninjahmos]

View attachment 399432

How does this even happen?

Maybe it's a restriction from SEGA? Or maybe they're just lazy? Who knows?

Eitherway, they should still let him have more facial expressions.