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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

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I mean yes, but that's why I think the 2021/2022 project is a smaller side project and Smash started development last year after Namco's Nintendo support studio finished hiring and the Spirit Events finished up. The Spirit Events ended in March last year, so it would depend on the hiring but I've heard they finished hiring in like June? So development would've started around mid-2024 if this scenario I'm talking about is correct.
That’s also a possibility. My only hangup there is would a smaller side project take 4-5 years to develop for someone like Sakurai? I suppose it’s possible and he could have been multitasking with that game and Smash 6 for the last year but I’m not sure.
 

Guynamednelson

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I’m sorry but I just don’t follow that logic. More characters means more chances of seeing one you care about.
Also I admit I used the wrong word, I meant to say "it's a larger amount of newcomers that makes it more likely we'll get abnormal choices"
 
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Gengar84

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Also I admit I used the wrong word, I meant to say "it's a larger amount of newcomers that makes it more likely we'll get abnormal choices"
Oh, then that makes total sense lol. In that case it comes down to whether you’d rather see your favorite veterans return or have a higher chance of seeing your most wanted newcomers.
 

Kirby Dragons

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Zelda is the veteran I'm most interested in playing, both cause I like the character and I like the moveset. And I'm not too worried about her getting cut. Some fans have called for her to get a new moveset, but I'm hoping it mostly stays the same.
 

fogbadge

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Zelda is the veteran I'm most interested in playing, both cause I like the character and I like the moveset. And I'm not too worried about her getting cut. Some fans have called for her to get a new moveset, but I'm hoping it mostly stays the same.
well she aint getting cut and we know we don't get massive moveset revamps I think you'll be fine
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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That’s also a possibility. My only hangup there is would a smaller side project take 4-5 years to develop for someone like Sakurai? I suppose it’s possible and he could have been multitasking with that game and Smash 6 for the last year but I’m not sure.
I don't think it would've taken that long necessarily. I think by the time they would've started working on Smash the project they were working on before would've been about finished, but it was made to bolster the Switch 2 launch lineup a bit, so Nintendo's been holding on to it and waiting to show it in April. There have been rumors that Nintendo is stockpiling releases a bit for the launch window and I do think that makes sense since I'd imagine the Wii U imparted its message that a terrible launch window can be a death knell lol

I mean you're releasing a slightly-bigger and hopefully more powerful successor to the "Nintendo Switch has games" system here, but if you don't have a strong launch lineup, the 150 million people playing a Switch might just not upgrade, and you can't show off its capabilities well.
 
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RileyXY1

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I don't think it would've taken that long necessarily. I think by the time they would've started working on Smash the project they were working on before would've been about finished, but it was made to bolster the Switch 2 launch lineup a bit, so Nintendo's been holding on to it and waiting to show it in April. There have been rumors that Nintendo is stockpiling releases a bit for the launch window and I do think that makes sense since I'd imagine the Wii U imparted its message that a terrible launch window can be a death knell lol
We already know that a new Mario Kart is coming, and given how much Mario Kart 8 Deluxe sold it's clear that they'll sell a crapton of units with Mario Kart 9 alone, and I also think that a new 3D Mario game is coming out later on this year to be the main console seller for Holiday 2025. I think they'll have some other projects lined up for the launch of the Switch 2, but I think that the two big ones are a new Mario Kart and a new 3D Mario game.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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We already know that a new Mario Kart is coming, and given how much Mario Kart 8 Deluxe sold it's clear that they'll sell a crapton of units with Mario Kart 9 alone, and I also think that a new 3D Mario game is coming out later on this year to be the main console seller for Holiday 2025. I think they'll have some other projects lined up for the launch of the Switch 2, but I think that the two big ones are a new Mario Kart and a new 3D Mario game.
I mean yes, I expect something similar, but there is still room for some smaller projects to cast a wider net here.
 

BrawlX10

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Graphics. You get to get excited for graphics. Welcome to 2020s AAA gaming. Now that Nintendo has a console that isn’t as outdated, they’re stuck with the long dev time + massive budget woes plaguing everyone else.
Brawl to Smash 4 was a big graphical jump and they had it done in 2 years.
I dont't think the graphical jump between Ultimate to Smash 6 is going to be as big as people think, honestly. I think they'll try reuse as many assets as possible to avoid as much cuts as possible, it's definitely going to look diferent from Ult, but i don't think it will be this crazy big jump.
I think next game will try to have it's own identity while still have groundwork from Ultimate, it's most likely just goin to be a regular smash game really.
 

PersonAngelo53

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Brawl to Smash 4 was a big graphical jump and they had it done in 2 years.
I dont't think the graphical jump between Ultimate to Smash 6 is going to be as big as people think, honestly. I think they'll try reuse as many assets as possible to avoid as much cuts as possible, it's definitely going to look diferent from Ult, but i don't think it will be this crazy big jump.
I think next game will try to have it's own identity while still have groundwork from Ultimate, it's most likely just goin to be a regular smash game really.
I could definitely see a lot of assets being reused still if they don’t want to many cuts. Tho I still think even with reused assets you can make a solid improvement to the graphics. Tho I imagine the graphical improvements would be the most noticeable in the backgrounds of some stages. Maybe some stage backgrounds have more complicated hardware intensive visuals or something.
 

smashkirby

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I doubt we're getting another Pokemon trainer, but if we did, Cynthia would be my top choice. With Roserade as a lightweight, Garchomp as a heavyweight, and one of her other Pokemon as a midweight.
FWIW, I feel like Sakurai would approach Cynthia in a manner similar to how he approached Sephiroth. "Boss character with a moveset that's been 'optimized' for Smash Bros.

And if they decide to get creative with her and not have her be a retread of Red and Leaf... maybe she could be on the stage herself? Actually, perhaps she could take inspiration from Yugi Muto's appearances in the Jump Stars games and summon her Pokémon for certain attacks?

By the way, regarding Cynthia using a midweight Pokémon... does Gastrodon count as that? I'd suggest Lucario, but...

So, what do you think is happening in the April 2 presentation regarding Smash Bros.?

1.- Full reveal trailer similar to the Brawl and Smash 4 first reveals. Includes cutscenes, gameplay footage, and at least one newcomer. Game title is shown in full.
2.- Teaser trailer similar to the initial Inkling reveal for Ultimate. Only cinema, no gameplay.
3.- Confirmation that new Smash Bros. is in the making along with several details such as Sakurai and Bandai Namco returning. No footage, outside of maybe a piece of artwork.
4.- "Yes, we are making Smash Bros. for Switch 2", and that's all we get.
5.- Nothing. No mentions, not even a hint.

Assuming Smash Bros. is the game Sakurai is working on then I think there's a decent chance of option #2, as the game should be in a state where footage can be shown, although I suppose they could do #3, with #1 being saved for a big reveal in June or later. If the game is not Smash I'm leaning towards #4, since even if Sakurai's game wasn't Smash I doubt Nintendo hasn't done the necessary paperwork to have Smash ready for Switch 2.

That said I'm absolutely setting myself up for option #5, although I hope we get at least #4 so that the Character Support threads can be reopened.
I'm thinking #4 or #5, and #3 as the 'miraculous long-shot' possibility.

I'd be okay with Smash just being mentioned in passing by Sakurai or someone else, especially if something else from Sora Ltd. gets shown instead, like a Kid Icarus remaster or something that I think would fit much better with Sakurai making a "lightning-fast" project proposal, as well as making more sense imo with the timeline based on the limited info we have.

Melee was announced at E3 in 1999 as "a Smash game on the Gamecube", Brawl was announced before E3 2005 which was even a surprise to Sakurai, and Smash 4 was announced in 2011 when the Wii U was unveiled, so I could see them just mentioning it's in development, which would allow character threads to open presumably and more people to come in and make discussion topics potentially. I mean not long after Smash 4's announcement is when I joined here, so I wouldn't mind that tactic again lol
And THIS is precisely why I'm banking on #4 at best.
 

Kirby Dragons

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FWIW, I feel like Sakurai would approach Cynthia in a manner similar to how he approached Sephiroth. "Boss character with a moveset that's been 'optimized' for Smash Bros.

And if they decide to get creative with her and not have her be a retread of Red and Leaf... maybe she could be on the stage herself? Actually, perhaps she could take inspiration from Yugi Muto's appearances in the Jump Stars games and summon her Pokémon for certain attacks?

By the way, regarding Cynthia using a midweight Pokémon... does Gastrodon count as that? I'd suggest Lucario, but...
She'd have to be summoning Pokémon for every single attack. Which would be fine, though you might have to make the Pokémon pop out of thin air instead of being called from their Pokéballs, so the animations aren't too long and grand.

I could see Gastrodon being a midweight. Canonically it's a lot heavier than Ivysaur, but it's easy enough to take a creative liberty. However, Gastrodon's body type isn't one I can see working for a Smash character.
 

SubspaceJigglypuff

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I dont't think the graphical jump between Ultimate to Smash 6 is going to be as big as people think, honestly. I think they'll try reuse as many assets as possible to avoid as much cuts as possible, it's definitely going to look diferent from Ult, but i don't think it will be this crazy big jump.
I'm sure they could get away with not tinkering the Ultimate models much if they wanted to, but that's not how Sakurai rolls. Every Smash game has pushed its respective console to its graphical limits, and I think that is by design, to show off the strength of each console, and I doubt Smash 6 will break that pattern.

Brawl to Smash Wii U is what I think we'll be looking at here, since the specs suggest the graphical leap from Switch to Switch will be about as big as the Wii to Wii U's. So I imagine most fighter animations and stage models will be reused, but most of the fighters will get new models.
 
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BrawlX10

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Brawl to Smash Wii U is what I think we'll be looking at here, since the specs suggest the graphical leap from Switch to Switch will be about as big as the Wii to Wii U's. So I imagine most fighter animations and stage models will be reused, but most of the fighters will get new models.
That was pretty much what i was thinking, i like i don't think the game will look like Tekken 8 or something, but there will definitely be improvements.
 

Oracle Link

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For a "Fatality", could there be someway of artistically censoring it a la Joker replacing the blood coming out of the hit target(s) in his all out attack / final smash with stars?
Toasty Nough said that move is in multiple child friendly adaptations!
So yeah just have scorpion burn his opponent to s skeleton or ash!
 

PeridotGX

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I mean yes, but that's why I think the 2021/2022 project is a smaller side project and Smash started development last year after Namco's Nintendo support studio finished hiring and the Spirit Events finished up. The Spirit Events ended in March last year, so it would depend on the hiring but I've heard they finished hiring in like June? So development would've started around mid-2024 if this scenario I'm talking about is correct.
In Sakurai's last video, he said this (in reference to why he recorded all the videos so far in advance)
1741901864199.png

It could be Smash or another AAA title, but this pretty much rules out a smaller title.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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What Paradox Pokemon do you think they could pick for Pokeballl?
I think Iron Bundle would be funny, though admittedly I just like that it's a robo-Delibird with an extendable head like a Rock Em Sock Em Robot toy lol

Also definitely wouldn't mind Iron Hands, like that one a lot too.

For Past Paradox Pokemon, I think I'd like Slither Wing honestly. I feel like Bug type is kinda underrepresented in the Poke Ball selection, with the only ones in Ultimate being Scizor, Genesect, and I think Spewpa.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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What's everyone's thoughts on whether or not Smash could be a launch title or otherwise release shortly after the Switch 2 itself is released at this point?
Being a launch title means it has no time to market its roster which is like, the entire selling point for Smash.

It's definitely a Year 2 thing at least.

Which means this next game probably had so much development time that triumphing Ultimate's content would be possible.

Just saying.
How much did Darth pay you to say this? :4pacman:

Also alongside all the stuff I saw a couple pages back about it being "too early for Smash", I personally just don't think the 2021 project being Smash makes any sense at all.

Every Smash game since Melee has started development a year before their console comes out, which would point to last year, not 2021/2022.

Sakurai said his project plan was drafted "lightning-quick" but with he himself saying Everyone Is Here is unlikely to happen again, I will continue to doubt that the next Smash would be an easy, fast project plan to make considering things like hard decisions on possible cuts, because making a port would be stupid when the Switch 2 is already confirmed to be backwards compatible and can just play Ultimate anyway, plus Smash never does ports.

Bandai Namco, who has worked on the last two games and I see no reason why they would be left out, announced their Nintendo studios in 2023 and then began a big hiring wave until some time last year while ALSO making new Spirit Events for Ultimate, including events for first party characters, both of which make NO SENSE in my opinion to do when you're already two years deep into development of the NEXT Smash and instead make more sense to be stuff you do between projects, so to me it feels like I'm being told "Namco isn't involved even though they literally made Nintendo support studios" or "Namco is involved but they kept their support studio hidden and had MASSIVE turnover rates for some reason".

In my mind it makes a ton more sense for Sakurai's "lightning-fast" project to be a smaller side project, possibly as a launch title for the Switch 2 like Kid Icarus Uprising was supposed to be for the 3DS, and then nearly two years into its development, Sakurai drafted a project plan for Smash on Switch 2, Namco started hiring to put the team together, and it began development when the Spirit Events ended and the hiring was finished, tying into Sakurai's statement of typically going from project to project seamlessly while also making it last year, which would likely place the next Smash somewhere in 2026/2027 range for release.

I'm not gonna argue about it with anyone specifically because at this point it's opinion vs opinion, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.
Yes. Yes to all of this.

I understand people really want a new Smash game ASAP but we have to hype responsibly and not assume every time he breathes, it's related to Smash.

Yup, what I’ve been hearing from a lot of people is:
  1. It’s way too soon for a new Smash game.
  2. Expect a much smaller roster than Ultimate.
  3. They’ll never do a big story mode like SSE again.
So we’ll have to wait a lot longer for a game with a smaller roster and no big adventure mode? What exactly am I supposed to get excited for? Especially if I enjoy the moveset of the large majority of characters and the ones they have changed so far made me enjoy them less than I used to. I thought I was pessimistic but I don’t see that scenario as particularly likely.
Being fair, the third one isn't even just an opinion. The fact that Sakurai is still upset enough to the point of going on an anti-cutscene rant in his YouTube channel about game design means the man's not gonna make another instance of SSE. It just ain't happening.

SSE 2 can only happen if someone else takes the helm at directing the series.
 
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Undella2

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Being a launch title means it has no time to market its roster which is like, the entire selling point for Smash.

It's definitely a Year 2 thing at least.


How much did Darth pay you to say this? :4pacman:


Yes. Yes to all of this.

I understand people really want a new Smash game ASAP but we have to hype responsibly and not assume every time he breathes, it's related to Smash.


Being fair, the third one isn't even just an opinion. The fact that Sakurai is still upset enough to the point of going on an anti-cutscene rant in his YouTube channel about game design means the man's not gonna make another instance of SSE. It just ain't happening.

SSE 2 can only happen if someone else takes the helm at directing the series.
Which of his videos did he go on that anti-cutscene rant? Interested in seeing it.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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In Sakurai's last video, he said this (in reference to why he recorded all the videos so far in advance)
View attachment 400110
It could be Smash or another AAA title, but this pretty much rules out a smaller title.
This to me at least implies the project isn't a Kid Icarus Uprising remake, although a sequel to that title or something new isn't out of the cards.

I think there's a solid argument to make it's Smash, although it comes with the asterisk that there's an explanation for Bamco's studio split not happening before or afterward, but rather seemingly mid development. Even if the mentioned project isn't Smash, I still feel as if the next entry is likely in an earlier stage of development, likely being helmed by the newly formed Bamco team, as Ultimate receiving more updates so much later is just too strange to ignore.

Regardless, it's interesting he calls out this next project as large in scope given how massive in scale Ultimate was. Just under three weeks till we may get our first look anyhow.
 

Gengar84

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Being a launch title means it has no time to market its roster which is like, the entire selling point for Smash.

It's definitely a Year 2 thing at least.


How much did Darth pay you to say this? :4pacman:


Yes. Yes to all of this.

I understand people really want a new Smash game ASAP but we have to hype responsibly and not assume every time he breathes, it's related to Smash.


Being fair, the third one isn't even just an opinion. The fact that Sakurai is still upset enough to the point of going on an anti-cutscene rant in his YouTube channel about game design means the man's not gonna make another instance of SSE. It just ain't happening.

SSE 2 can only happen if someone else takes the helm at directing the series.
You can still do an SSE style story with in game graphics and no actual CG cutscenes. I’d be totally fine with that. You don’t need CG for a fun adventure and character interaction.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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In Sakurai's last video, he said this (in reference to why he recorded all the videos so far in advance)
View attachment 400110
It could be Smash or another AAA title, but this pretty much rules out a smaller title.
I mean I called it a smaller side project, but "smaller side project" in relation to Smash can mean a lot of things lol

Like Ultimate's dev timeline was February 2016 to December 2018, nearly three years. If the 2021 project is a different game, it starting development in April 2022 and next Smash starting in June or July 2024 based on the timeline I outlined, that gives that game a bit more than two years, which is not an unheard of timeline for Sakurai and whatever team he had put together.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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In Sakurai's last video, he said this (in reference to why he recorded all the videos so far in advance)
View attachment 400110
It could be Smash or another AAA title, but this pretty much rules out a smaller title.
Being fair, something to the scale of Kid Icarus Uprising (and by that I mean a new game, not a remake) would still definitely be something that could take a lot of his time.

It doesn't need to be Smash and it doesn't need to be the most ambitious thing ever. This is not a world of extremes.

You can still do an SSE style story with in game graphics and no actual CG cutscenes. I’d be totally fine with that. You don’t need CG for a fun adventure and character interaction.
But then it wouldn't be SSE 2. It'd be it's own thing.

Which is definitely fine to do. I'm just saying it wouldn't be what people actually remember about SSE.

Which of his videos did he go on that anti-cutscene rant? Interested in seeing it.
Well, not quite rant but you can definitely feel that he's keeping cutscenes at a low amount for a reason.

 
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ninjahmos

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You can still do an SSE style story with in game graphics and no actual CG cutscenes. I’d be totally fine with that. You don’t need CG for a fun adventure and character interaction.
They could do what Metal Gear does and just do real-time cutscenes using the game's engine.
 

dream1ng

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You can still do an SSE style story with in game graphics and no actual CG cutscenes. I’d be totally fine with that. You don’t need CG for a fun adventure and character interaction.
You can, but they won't. When Sakurai said how making SSE was basically like making an additional game, it wasn't just in terms of content, but also in budget, time and manpower. Even without the cutscenes, they're not going to allocate that kind of money to a mode that draws much less engagement than just the normal vs stuff.

I don't think it's even about Sakurai's discontentment with the cutscenes spreading. He absolutely should've seen that coming anyway. Even in 2008. If the SSE had become Brawl's biggest selling point, something like it would've remained, because of its effect on sales. Like how the aspect of the SSE that was the most well-received, the cutscenes, did, despite the cost, continue - in fact being repurposed to act as an even greater tool to move units.

That's why we got something like WoL, which is a much cheaper way to tell a story than SSE was.
 

Swamp Sensei

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So I might as well say it over here.

The third party poll has resumed it's development but some changes had to happen. Originally I was going to do exactly the same kind of poll. I'd give character choices for every new IP. For the first party poll, that had a clear beginning and end, so it was easily doable.

But third parties are literally endless. I couldn't do it. I either had to change the poll or not release it. Returning franchises will still have lots of characters to choose from. But new franchises will be done in a different way from here on.

Each company will have a page with all their IPs on it. I will be asking what IP you want to get a character in Smash. It's not as exact as it was before and I know we wouldn't get as much detailed data as before. But it was too big to do at the scale I was attempting. At least it was too big to do on my own.

So yeah, when the third party poll is out, you'll be voting for characters with returning franchises and IPs for brand new franchises.

Any questions or concerns?
 
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HyperSomari64

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So I might as well say it over here.

The third party poll has resumed it's development but some changes had to happen. Originally I was going to do exactly the same kind of poll. I'd give character choices for every new IP. For the first party poll, that had a clear beginning and end, so it was easily doable.

But third parties are literally endless. I couldn't do it. I either had to change the poll or not release it. Returning franchises will still have lots of characters to choose from. But new franchises will be done in a different way from here on.

Each company will have a page with all their IPs on it. I will be asking what IP you want to get a character in Smash. It's not as exact as it was before and I know we would get as much detailed data as before. But it was too big to do at the scale I was attempting. At least it was too big to do on my own.

So yeah, when the third party poll is out, you'll be voting for characters with returning franchises and IPs for brand new franchises.

Any questions or concerns?
Is Neptunia in the poll? Just askin'
 
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