Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

I think this sums up my thoughts when the fanbase decides the Echoes:

 

[ninjahmos]

I think this sums up my thoughts when the fanbase decides the Echoes:

I think I have to agree with you. Most ideas for Echo Fighters probably wouldn't work anyway, especially when said "Echo" doesn't even have the same moves as the character they're supposed to be Echoing.

cough Black Knight as an Ike Echo cough

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do you have an attachment to the character?
If No: "They would be kinda neat but are fairly unlikely as picks, so make them an Echo Fighter."
If Yes: "They cannot be an Echo Fighter. They need to be unique."


The Echo Fighter label has convinced us that clones are fun extras, but nobody wants their character to be the fun extra.

 

[PeridotGX]

My crazy echo suggestion is for :

Are you going to tell me it wouldn't work? Besides, it's not like ZSS has more realistic echo options or Mettaton has a chance in hell of being added as his own character.

 

[Will]

cough Black Shadow as an Ike Echo cough

Why not? The anime scene was too iconic!

WATASHI WA SHINEN SHINENZU!!!

GREAT AETHER!!!​

 

[BritishGuy54]

I will not stand for Echo Fighter slander.

 

[ninjahmos]

Why not? The anime scene was too iconic!

View attachment 401991
WATASHI WA SHINEN SHINENZU!!!

GREAT AETHER!!!​

View attachment 401990

Dammit I meant Black Knight

 

[Will]

I will not stand for Echo Fighter slander.

I agree. They’re just rebranding a stage of development that has been around for decades now. Chrom and Dark Samus got a spot for something they most likely would have waited decades for, or would never have a realistic chance of obtaining to begin with.

Some fans just have very strong pride. They have been waiting at least 17 years for a unique version of their wanted character, would they really settle for less now? What’s another 17 years? That’s only an entire human generation come and gone.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Do you have an attachment to the character?
If No: "They would be kinda neat but are fairly unlikely as picks, so make them an Echo Fighter."
If Yes: "They cannot be an Echo Fighter. They need to be unique."


The Echo Fighter label has convinced us that clones are fun extras, but nobody wants their character to be the fun extra.

Shadow is in my top 10 most wanted newcomers, I love the character, and I was even one of those weirdos who loved his game as a kid. I think Shadow being an echo fighter would be perfectly fine, and I’d be happy, so long as his animations portrayed his character well, maybe replace a move or two.

Dixie is my second most wanted newcomer and while I don’t think she should be an echo fighter, I also don’t think her being a fully unique fighter is necessary.

I also really want Octolings, I adore Splatoon, and I always play as Octolings, but even if they were just half of Inklings alts I wouldn’t mind.

In terms of characters I don’t have much of an attachment to, I think another ARMS character would be neat, but I think their fighting style should be as accurate to how they are in ARMS, and if they need to make them a semi clone to achieve that, then I don’t think they should settle for them being an echo fighter.

 

[ninjahmos]

I still think Big Boss (Naked Snake) would work as an Echo of Solid Snake. In fact, he'd make a better Echo than Liquid, because he only appears as a major antagonist in MGS1. Sure, he comes back for later games, but only for a few short hours of those games. And since when have we ever seen Liquid use any of the weapons that Solid Snake and Big Boss use depending on the gameplay or cutscene?

I'm just saying…it'd be pretty cool. And before you say that they look too similar, you could probably say the same about Liquid

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm just saying…it'd be pretty cool. And before you say that they look too similar, you could probably say the same about Liquid

I think more of what makes Big Boss weird is that he's technically already in the game since IIRC, Snake's appearance in Smash is an amalgam of his appearances throughout the series, Big Boss included. I would definitely be down for them adding his outfit as an alt though. It kind of feels like one of those things he'd have already if he was added in Ultimate.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Have any of you guys gotten any luck getting a switch 2? Yesterday I was lucky enough to be able to get on the Walmart website to preordered the moment it started but it took quite a while and then when I finally got through and was able to make the order I wake up the next day to get a notification that my order was canceled cause of some error even though the website clearly told me I got my order.
And seems now that the switch 2 is sold out at the moment. Things ain’t looking good to get the system.

All I have near me is a GameStop (I guess there's also technically Walmart but I never really consider them a video game store or a place I'd trust with my preorders) so I went in today and preordered the Mario Kart bundle system relatively hassle-free, but I also did it just an hour after the store opened, so that probably helped, not to mention I live in a small southern town, so it was basically me and one other person preordering the Switch 2 while I was there, and I technically got done first because the register the other person was on crashed lol

 

[Will]

I still think Big Boss (Naked Snake) would work as an Echo of Solid Snake. In fact, he'd make a better Echo than Liquid, because he only appears as a major antagonist in MGS1. Sure, he comes back for later games, but only for a few short hours of those games. And since when have we ever seen Liquid use any of the weapons that Solid Snake and Big Boss use depending on the gameplay or cutscene?

Sure. I want all the alts though; Venom Snake, Smashified older Big Boss from Metal Gear 1/2.

Same with Snake. Give us the old man Solid, dammit!

And before you say that they look too similar, you could probably say the same about Liquid

Cmon bro, David is a clone of John. It is lore that Liquid despises the conception of him not having the right genes to match John’s appearance like David does. They do look too similar, but it’s like that for a reason and it doesn’t matter that much against a fanbase that considers a blue-haired FE Lord “another Marth”.

Also, I personally prefer the idea of Liquid as a boss using Metal Gear REX.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Crackpot Smash Ideas: Frog Mario is added as a new Echo Fighter of Mario. His moveset is exactly the same, but his walk and dash is replaced by hopping, which makes him airborne. Also, his jump height is increased, and his swim timer is the highest in the game.

 

[Perkilator]

Delzethin released a speculative video on a potential Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate.

 

[ninjahmos]

I think my problem with Echo Fighters might be that some of them should have their own identity that's different from their original counterpart, like Daisy, who was made as an Echo of Peach, and Dark Samus who was made as an Echo of…well, Samus. I would've been OK with Dark Pit as an Echo of Pit if he played more like his Brawl counterpart just to make him a little more unique. In fact, I think the only Echo Fighters that actually work are Ken and Richter.

Ken, because he was originally a clone of Ryu anyway, until Capcom gave him some changes throughout the Street Fighter series, and like I keep saying, he's what an Echo Fighter should be. Similar to their original counterpart but with their own unique quirks and attacks. Richter, because according to Sakurai, he and Simon are supposed to be copying each other, and in the Castlevania games before Symphony of the Night, all the Belmonts pretty much played the same anyway.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Monkey's Paw, we get King Boo, but none of the Luigi's Mansion designs. Only his updated design from Wonder and MK World.

How is that a monkey's paw? It means we can have this as an alt outfit

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Delzethin released a speculative video on a potential Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate.

I dunno, someone on this thread did say Ultimate had been getting stale. Plus, even if a Switch 2 edition breathes some new life into the game, would it really be necessary?

 

[Laniv]

Remember when people were suggesting Hilda from ALBW as a Zelda echo? I still say she should have at least been a palette swap

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Delzethin released a speculative video on a potential Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate.

It could happen if the eshop shares with each console since 2 is digitally backwards compatible. I think we're getting a new campaign that isn't long as WOL and different, few new modes like Assist Smash where you play as some assist trophies and coin battles, and 11 new fighters with stages and spirits.

Here's my fighter wishlist excluding echoes that are based on DLC:
Ayumi Tachibana
Noah
Raven Beak or Sylux
Crash
Ryu Hayabusa
A Pokemon from gen 9
Dr. Eggman
Oatchi
Geno

Echoes:
Octoling (Inkling)
Mio (Noah)
Impa (Sheik)
Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)
Louie/Britney (Olimar/Alph)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

How is that a monkey's paw? It means we can have this as an alt outfit

View attachment 401997

Honestly, having seen footage of even normal King Boo in Knockout Tour with the tricks and everything, it makes me really happy to see him look so expressive.

The footage in question I saw with King Boo. Also has the Boo item-stealing animation pretty early on, and I just really love how the Boos look in this game tbh.

 

[Ivander]

Remember when people were suggesting Hilda from ALBW as a Zelda echo? I still say she should have at least been a palette swap

Yeah, Hilda had a staff compared to Zelda so that gives her more incentive to not be an Echo Fighter, though if Hilda was an Echo of Zelda, Hilda personality-wise could've filled in the spot of TP Zelda's more stoic, hardened personality to ALTP's Zelda's more positive and open personality.

Though it's so bizarre that Hilda is not a palette swap for Zelda, especially with Zelda getting her ALTP/ALBW look. You have Link, Toon Link and Young Link all with Dark Link(as well as Fierce Deity for regular Link), Ganondorf with a Pig Ganon Palette swap and Sheik with an Impa palette, but no Hilda for Zelda? Makes you wonder if Hilda was considered at one point, considering Peach and Samus lost their Daisy and Dark Samus palettes respectively when the latter two became playable.

 

[fogbadge]

Remember when people were suggesting Hilda from ALBW as a Zelda echo? I still say she should have at least been a palette swap

good times. though there was some debate over her staff I recall

 

[Kirby Dragons]

An Isabelle-style semiclone seems best for Dixie. Her ponytail should be used for more than just a couple moves, and after you replace enough moves, there'll be too much of a difference for her to be labeled as an echo. Moves like Diddy's tilts, smashes and down special can stay on Dixie.

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

Which character could potentially be a semi-clone such as what happened with Isabelle.

I think an example in my opinion would be Shadow where he would use Sonic as a base but moves that wouldn’t work would be different.

I've always thought making Shadow an echo would be such a disservice to him. Like pretty much all of Shadow's most famous combat stuff is stuff Sonic doesn't do (Or rarely uses). Guns, Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, Chaos Blast, The motorcycle, Not to mention all the new stuff from Shadow Generations.

 

[Will]

Moves like Diddy's tilts, smashes and down special can stay on Dixie.

I would be disappointed if we went through all this commotion to declone her as much as possible and none of her Smash/basic attacks use her hair. ATP you could’ve just given Dixie DK’s forward grab and recovery and called it a day.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'd pretty open to varying ideas for Dixie's moveset, but please something besides the banana for the down special. Using her hair as an attack, a gum bubble exploding, her hitting opponents with her guitar, anything besides her pulling out a banana because "After all the Kong's collect bananas right?"

 

[ninjahmos]

I think I may have said this before, but they should use this as Dixie's victory theme and one of her victory poses if she ever gets in:

Oh, and I also think they should use THIS as Diddy's new victory theme and one of his victory poses.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Monkey's Paw, we get King Boo, but none of the Luigi's Mansion designs. Only his updated design from Wonder and MK World.

How about their Sunshine design?

 

[Will]

How about their Sunshine design?

We already have one gambling character.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I would be disappointed if we went through all this commotion to declone her as much as possible and none of her Smash/basic attacks use her hair. ATP you could’ve just given Dixie DK’s forward grab and recovery and called it a day.

Her hair-ials could be where the ponytail gets use

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I'd pretty open to varying ideas for Dixie's moveset, but please something besides the banana for the down special. Using her hair as an attack, a gum bubble exploding, her hitting opponents with her guitar, anything besides her pulling out a banana because "After all the Kong's collect bananas right?"

If there's a solid alternative idea for the down special, I'd be interested, though the ideas you listed would probably be used for her normals (or standard special for the bubblegum).

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'd pretty open to varying ideas for Dixie's moveset, but please something besides the banana for the down special. Using her hair as an attack, a gum bubble exploding, her hitting opponents with her guitar, anything besides her pulling out a banana because "After all the Kong's collect bananas right?"

She does use her ponytail to perform DK's Hand Slap in Tropical Freeze.

Food for thought.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If there's a solid alternative idea for the down special, I'd be interested, though the ideas you listed would probably be used for her normals (or standard special for the bubblegum).

Honestly as "meh" an idea as this might be to some, I'd be fine with a DK variation of Peach's vegetable pull. Utilizing the handle on the ground as seen in DK Tropical Freeze, Dixie pulls on it to pop a type of barrel out of the ground (so it's not coming out of her person/hammerspace). Percentage wise a standard barrel is most common and does okay damage. Steel barrel is rarer on top of being slower to throw but does greater damage and can roll on the ground (whether she/others can ride on it can be decided later). TNT barrel is even rarer still but does the most damage with an additional cost of blowing up Dixie if she holds it for too long. If there's other variations of barrels that fit, maybe they can be included too.

You get a concept no more out there than Peach pulling turnips, with some potential depth to it, and utilizing an item the Kong's actually use as a weapon. You can adjust it to further differentiate it from Peach's move, better fit with an overall Diddy echo playstyle, and make it balanced in terms of use, but it at least feels much more like a Dixie attack than throwing banana peels on the ground.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

She does use her ponytail to perform DK's Hand Slap in Tropical Freeze.

Food for thought.

Hm...What if they did something like:

• Neutral Special: Bubblegum Popgun-Peanut Popgun, maybe with some slight tweaks to be a better neutral tool.
• Side Special: Monkey Flip-Also about the same.
• Up Special: Spinning Kong-About the same, though you move faster horizontally, and maybe get a tad more height.
• Down Special: Hair Slap-A faster version of Hand Slap that pops opponents up for combos, and in the air is a pretty normal down air.

The goal with the rest of her moveset would be to make her a fairly normal brawler, or even try to make her a spacie.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Delzethin released a speculative video on a potential Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate.

I would honestly be happy with this happening. And I like the idea of getting characters for smash ultimate until it it reaches a 100 characters. Tho I understand why other people are against this idea but I personally would like smash content sooner than later. I can wait longer for a fully new smash game with this as a replacement for now.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I'd pretty open to varying ideas for Dixie's moveset, but please something besides the banana for the down special. Using her hair as an attack, a gum bubble exploding, her hitting opponents with her guitar, anything besides her pulling out a banana because "After all the Kong's collect bananas right?"

Especially since Diddy Kong only used something similar to his down b in Mario Kart DD and a Mario Tennis cutscene by the time of Brawl.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hm...What if they did something like:

• Neutral Special: Bubblegum Popgun-Peanut Popgun, maybe with some slight tweaks to be a better neutral tool.
• Side Special: Monkey Flip-Also about the same.
• Up Special: Spinning Kong-About the same, though you move faster horizontally, and maybe get a tad more height.
• Down Special: Hair Slap-A faster version of Hand Slap that pops opponents up for combos, and in the air is a pretty normal down air.

The goal with the rest of her moveset would be to make her a fairly normal brawler, or even try to make her a spacie.

Combine that with DK's cargo throw and we've got a pretty aggressive grappler.

 

[AlRex]

Delzethin released a speculative video on a potential Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate.

I like this guy’s videos, editing, formatting, moveset ideas, and insights and speculation on the overall surrounding game, but that is the most “room temperature tap water with unsalted crackers” list of newcomers he gives, even amongst first parties, I’m afraid. I note that often with him. At least in my opinion, anyways. I feel like 10 years or so ago, he would have said Zoroark was a sure thing. I feel mean saying this, though.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I feel like 10 years or so ago, he would have said Zoroark was a sure thing. I feel mean saying this, though.

I mean to be fair, a lot of people said that (or Victini) because Greninja was announced for Smash literally six months after X and Y came out, rendering the previous 3 years of Pokemon newcomer speculation moot lol

A situation I could frankly see repeating itself with a Gen 10 newcomer instead of the usual suspect, Meowscarada, but that's because I still don't think Smash will get a Switch 2 version instead of a new game to "fill the gap" or whatever the reasoning for it is.