Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[Emperor Time]

I think we should make a DD Tier and give it to ZSS.

Rofl.

Falco is going down for sure. I see IC, Peach, and Pika going up. Wario will probably place better, too.

 

[Jigglymaster]

^
eh don't kid yourself, jiggs is pretty bad, shes probly 3rd worst

I can assure you that Jiggs is better than Falcon, Ganon, Link, and Samus.

5th Worst is the minimal of what I expect. She should be 5th Worst or possibly better.

 

[Dekillsage]

Metaknight is going to....


Fox is going up, Wolf is going down
Game and Watch will go up to 3rd Falco 4th

 

[Matador]

What? Becuase it actually doesnt matter in the air?
Just saying its really awkward how the aerial is more prioritized than any of his other moves.

That's more range than priority. Unless it's a disjointed attack vs a normal attack, then the move with the most range will always win out. The attackspeed doesn't hurt either. His Uair has a ton of range and it relatively quick, so that explains why it gives the illusion of priority over other moves.

 

[Browny]

Illusion lol

his uair can easily beat G&W key and it is quite simple to time and space it. I regularly challenge MK's dair with it (second hit) and it works well enough

its no fake

 

[cutter]

Metaknight is going to....


Fox is going up, Wolf is going down
Game and Watch will go up to 3rd Falco 4th

I can assure you that G&W will not go up to 3rd. He has tanked ever since the beginning of Brawl.

 

[Shaya]

Falco really should be dropping. SHOULD. HE SHOULD. GOD ****IT SBR HE SHOULD.

"Who should be in the top 5?"

MK, Snake, Dedede, Wario, Diddy.

Falco only beats one of the characters in the top 5.

He DOESN'T BEAT Marth, Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, Olimar, Lucario, Kirby, or ROB (arguable); pretty much the whole of high tier.
His entire presence as a 'top tier' seems to be all about D3, and doing OKAY (but still not having an advantage) against MK and Snake.

Wario and Diddy back up not just doing well against MK and Snake, but also beating out or being even with just about everyone as well. THEY DONT HAVE HARD COUNTERS. FALCO DOES.

Dedede is so ever present because about now, he is the ONLY character in the game to have a bonafied advantage on Snake; does WELL against MK, still does well against Wario or Diddy, beats Marth, Lucario, ROB, completely invalidates low and mid tiers (only Squirtle, Fox, Jigglypuff and Zelda/Sheik being the only characters he doesn't ****), and Pikachu, Olimar and G&W don't consider D3 better than 60:40 (IIRC).

D3 is definitely in a tier after mk and snake. No matter the seperation if theres Tier S then a Tier A then a Tier B without D3 in A, I'll fall off my chair.
Could you imagine how many more people would be WORRYING about Donkey Kong if D3 didn't utterly destroy him? D3 is still heavily feared even with Falco in the mix.

Anyway, my original 'Top/High tier' predictions' (ORDER OF CHARACTERS IN AN INDIVIDUAL TIER DO NOT MATTER) whilst Falco I have as 9th, he's probably better suited to 7th.

Falco has hard counters now, Game and Watch doesn't really beat any top tiers...
...

I aim to think of the tier list requiring a "trio" of top tier, in melee this was Fox, Marth and Sheik. Sheik beating Marth, Fox beating Sheik, and well Fox being a slight cut above the rest. To relate this to brawl, these characters are Meta Knight, Snake and Dedede. Dedede being the 'sheikish' character, making so many unviable, but actually having several hard match ups across the character roster.

I order the high tiers from what I gather are their round about match ups, or significance in the metagame.
If the point system was to be used like last time, Snake will definitely increase his points. Hes increased any 'previous' REAL disadvantage on him to 50:50 at LEAST (minus Dedede), and continues to stride fourth, making his match ups more and more in his favour as times goes on. He's becoming as big of a threat as Meta Knight.

Without further ado (order of characters in individual tiers are arbitrary)

Tier 1 [****ing AWESOME]
Meta Knight (durr)

Tier 2 [No 'hard' match ups]
Snake
Dedede (D3 Is the obvious exception here, but due to trio theory, his still ever present tournament dominance, and in my opinion only really having FALCO now to really worry about, he iis worthy of number 3)

Tier 3 [One "bad" match up]
Wario
Diddy Kong
Marth
Both Wario and Diddy lose to Marth, but Marth loses to Meta Knight (but it seems to be getting better). Potentially over coming his weakness of D3, and Snake PROBABLY getting worse. If it wasn't for Marth's advantages on just about all the other high tiers in his tier and below him, he wouldn't be as significant here.

Tier 4 [Minor-Semi Significant disadvantages)
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Falco
Game and Watch

Tier 5 [Semi+ disadvantages, strong match ups]
Lucario
ROB
Olimar
...?

This is probably the most debatable tiers (even for me to discern).
1. Falco has been hit hard, he SHOULDN'T BE top 5 anymore with definite hard counters from ICs, most likely Pikachu, and worsening match ups against Wario , Snake, Diddy Kong, Olimar, and possibly Marth. However Falco's "dominance" is akin to Dedede, and boasts evenish match ups still with Snake and MK, and being Dedede's MAJOR weakness in the current metagame.
2. Game and Watch, whilst being outrageously good 'bases', literally destroying most of the tiers below him, suffers having no real advantages on anyone above him; having slight controls over ICs, Pika, Falco and some others.
3. With Pikachu becoming a major concern for MANY characters, including Falco, an increasing advantage on Dedede, Snake, Meta Knight and many others, he would be in a tier above if it weren't for Marth, and MK still restricting him.
4. Ice Climbers have proven to be a power house, arguablly only having a real weakness against Diddy Kong and Snake. And boosting probably a close to even match up with MK, whilst perhaps being the most 'technical' and exhaustive character in Brawl, Nana and Popo are amazing, and their infinites are down right GAME BREAKING. Top it off with how significantly 'unstoppable' their desynching moves can be, only characters with strong defensive projectiles/mobility can argue not being even or disadvantaged against ICs. Also accounting ICs being Falco's hardest match up.

Repeating stuff is awesome.

Sonic is deserving of Mid Tier status.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

MK will fall for sure. And I mean in the point system. MK has fallen in peoples opinion of him. Still good, but not br0ken status. So if the point system is still around I'll say he will fall somewhere in the pionts.


Falco for sure. Was bucket braking found before or after the 2nd tier list? If after than G&W might stay around. With that ability he is like a heavy with the priority, range, and KO power of other top tiers. So I doubt he would move much from the current postion. Falco will likely move down.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I can expect Diddy either staying or moving up one spot at the most because his banana game can be tricked by his oppont.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Well, he was never "broken status." The whole situation got blown way our of proportion, if you ask me. If I had never seen all the debates/threads, I never would have thought it was even considered close to a problem. And that's saying something, considering I go to tournaments in NJ (MK town). As far as I'm concerned, he's the best character in the game, and that's it.

As for Falco, honestly I never thought he should be as high as he is.

 

[Jski]

I do not get why zss still looked down on by a lot of ppl she seem to have mostly even mach ups with some very strong moves.

 

[Shaya]

ZSS
loses to MK
Probably goes even with Snake
Mixed opinions, but I believe loses to D3
Loses to Marth, Falco...

High tier is one thing, but if you want to have a character in the top tier, you actually have to be able to BEAT top tierS and just about the rest of the high tiers.

She is around high tier levels even in "tier 5" or the one below...

 

[Jski]

She not that bad vs d3 i though hmmm and MK i though it was a close fight (who dose not lose to MK btw?). She even with Marth its Falco that beat her badly. Any way i am not taking top tier but at lest in the top 10.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ZSS actually has very few strong moves. bair and down b spike are the only ones i can think of, and they arent really all THAT strong either

shes definitely not top ten, top 20 maybe

 

[Kinzer]

What? Becuase it actually doesnt matter in the air?
Just saying its really awkward how the aerial is more prioritized than any of his other moves.

You still don't have the right definition of "priority."

When it comes to aerial attacks like Sonic's Uair, there really is no such thing as priority. Why people still use the term in this matter is beyond me, but how "priority" works in this case is the correlation or hurtbox-to-hitbox. Sonic's Uair has amazing "priority" (more like range) because it can hit people from far away and still keep him moreorless safe from counterattack when spaced correctly (it's not as hard as it looks). I'm not sure if it also shrinks Sonic's hurtbox but let's just say hitting him out of his Uair from above is pretty d*** hard to do.

I think the only person Sonic can't hit out of their Dair is King D3s, but he has a freaking 3 foot mallet, what do you expect?

Priority has to do with attacks being able to clank or just override other attacks. Grounded attacks for example follow a 10% rule where any other attack that does this amount of damage within another one will clank. An example would be using Sonic's FSmash, to clank with it you will need to use an attack that does at least 4% damage, anything that does less head on will be tossed aside.

 

[Steeler]

i thought the next tier list was in july...

 

[Blahblahwutever]

hey steeler you should get out of that rock you've been living in for the past 6 months.

 

[Poltergust]

I feel that Yoshi will definitely be moving up (it's not like he can possibly move down anyways), even if it is one or two places. The idea of him being worse than Samus, Sonic, or PT is just ludicrous to me, and him being the 5th worst character in the game is even moreso.

 

[CaliburChamp]

This is the new tier list...

S Tier (Super Tier) From the heavens.
Meta Knight
Snake

A Tier (Top Tier) On top of the mountain.
Falco
King Dedede
Diddy Kong
Pikachu
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Wario

B Tier ( Very High Tier) Almost at the top of the mountain.
Olimar
Ice Climbers
ROB
Lucario

C Tier (High Tier) Higher than the middle part of the mountain.
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Luigi
Kirby
Donkey Kong
Pit
Wolf
Fox
Peach
Zelda/Shiek (Used as both)

D Tier (Middle Tier) Half way there.
Zelda
Squirtle (no forced switching, no fatigue)
Ness
Lucas
Bowser
Shiek

F Tier (Low Tier) At the low part of the mountain.
Sonic
Ike
Pokemon Trainer/Charizard (as an average)
Yoshi
Mario
Samus
Ivysaur (no forced switching, no fatigue)

G Tier (Bottom Tier) On ground level.
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf
Popo
Nana

F Tier (Worthless tier) Underground.
Solo Olimar

 

[Steeler]

hey steeler you should get out of that rock you've been living in for the past 6 months.

wasn't the last tier list in january? and tier lists are every 6 months? so therefore the next list would actually be in june?

 

[Morrigan]

Um...what's wrong then? It will come out June 5th (supposedly).


Also, solo Squirtle is top tire dude

 

[demonictoonlink]

Squirtle FTW

 

[smashkng]

Poltergust, if all characters would be used at full potential I think's he is middle tier, but his learning curve is ridiculous high like he always had.

Trivia: Yoshi is 5 places to bottom in the tier of all 3 games.

 

[Poltergust]

Wow, I never realized that!

More trivia: He is in different tiers in each game, too (64 = Mid, Melee = Bottom, Brawl = Equivalent to Low).

 

[demonictoonlink]

Yoshi can't catch a break...

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi can't catch a break...

He never does.

 

[kirbywizard]

I find it sad characters like jiggs and luigi are being halted in growth on the tier list thanks to

 

[Blahblahwutever]

luigis wrath:

:uzi::sniper:

 

[Super Angry Luigi]

Am I the only one who thinks that Luigi sucks and needs to go down?

 

[Lovely]

Am I the only one who thinks that Luigi sucks and needs to go down?

If there were more people who think so, it would be a miracle since I don't see Luigi sucking in Brawl. :/

Explain why Luigi needs to go down so I can have a better understanding.

 

[Super Angry Luigi]

If there were more people who think so, it would be a miracle since I don't see Luigi sucking in Brawl. :/

Explain why Luigi needs to go down so I can have a better understanding.

-His defense is complete garbage
-No range
-Only one reliable kill move (F-Smash)
-He is the easiest character in the game to grab
-A lot of his moves have A LOT of ending lag (such as Super Jump Punch, Luigi Cyclone, Green Missile, and all of his smashes)
-He has a lot of trouble scoring KOs.
-Recovery is predictable and incredibly easy to gimp

The only positive things that I see in Luigi in this game are his recovery (distance wise), and the insane amount of power in his F-Smash. Everything else is crap.

 

[smashkng]

-His defense is complete garbage
-No range
-Only one reliable kill move (F-Smash)
-He is the easiest character in the game to grab
-A lot of his moves have A LOT of ending lag (such as Super Jump Punch, Luigi Cyclone, Green Missile, and all of his smashes)
-He has a lot of trouble scoring KOs.
-Recovery is predictable and incredibly easy to gimp

The only positive things that I see in Luigi in this game are his recovery (distance wise), and the insane amount of power in his F-Smash. Everything else is crap.

Luigi still has great attack speed and getting missfire can get really early kills. Side smash is great, it has big speed and power. The problem is that he is slow moving and poor range that makes him easy to camp and gives him trouble with great ranged characters like Marth and Dedede. Additionally, Luigi is 1 of the 5 that can be infinited by the King.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

I was under the impression that D-Smash & even Nair were usable kill moves, though I imagine DI ruins them. Plus, fireball spam.

 

[smashkng]

Luigi's projectile is not so useful, it has bad range and it's not enough good to compensate his slow moving and bad range combination.

 

[Monshou_no_Nazo]

Projectile is still a longer reach than his melee attacks, so I would say projectile spam can still be useful for zoning purposes and seeking opportunities to strike.

 

[Dark Shifter]

it is a 100% guarantee that ddd will go down. i will bet anyone any amount of money, or smash points XD, on this.

 

[Frown]

it is a 100% guarantee that ddd will go down. i will bet anyone any amount of money, or smash points XD, on this.

I bet 300 Wii points that you're wrong.

 

[Toneh]

hmm wonder if they are gonna take away all those letters this time. too many groups..

 

[Smasher89]

ICs are going UP.

 

[brinboy789]

-His defense is complete garbage
-No range
-Only one reliable kill move (F-Smash)
-He is the easiest character in the game to grab
-A lot of his moves have A LOT of ending lag (such as Super Jump Punch, Luigi Cyclone, Green Missile, and all of his smashes)
-He has a lot of trouble scoring KOs.
-Recovery is predictable and incredibly easy to gimp

The only positive things that I see in Luigi in this game are his recovery (distance wise), and the insane amount of power in his F-Smash. Everything else is crap.

i thought luigi had amazing comboing ability?