Not a Tier List: Montage's Character ratings: New Info: Meta, Sonic, Snake, Lucario

[gamer8]

I already converted this list of ratings into a 5 layered tier, with higher ranking characters to the left. Kirby is presumed to be mid tier for now, as he was high tier in SSB and low tier in SSBM.


Top Tier: Toon Link, Diddy, Wolf, Snake, Fox, Falco, Marth
High Tier: Samus, Pit, Rob, Metaknight, Dedede, Olimar, Lucas
Mid Tier: Zelda/Sheik, Pikachu, Ike, Ness, Sonic, Luigi, Peach, PT, Lucario, Kirby
Low Tier: DK, Ganondorf, G&W, Mario, Wario, Jigglypuff
Bottom Tier: ZZS, Bowser, Link, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, Yoshi

While its true that DMbrandon is going to have some bias, he is an experienced melee player, and has played Brawl for many hours against other experienced players. He is likely to have a good idea of how characters pan out. I suspect that at least 2/3s of the characters will remain permanently in their given tiers, and that only 1 or 2 characters will change performance drastically enough to move up or down more than 1 tier.

TERRIBLE tier list, why the **** did you even try? It's way too early idiot, and this is a guys OPINION you freaking ******... what he says isn't automatically the tier list.

You probably haven't even played the game have you?


P.S Fail at the ZSS and Captain Falcon bottom tier thing.

@ Topic maker, like people are saying, Zamus is much better than you think, and Captain Falcon isn't completely nerfed, only a few things are nerfed.

 

[wodan46]

no need to be rude, Gamer8. Perhaps you need to read the paragraph I wrote earlier again:

"While its true that DMbrandon is going to have some bias, he is an experienced melee player, and has played Brawl for many hours against other experienced players. He is likely to have a good idea of how characters pan out. I suspect that at least 2/3s of the characters will remain permanently in their given tiers, and that only 1 or 2 characters will change performance drastically enough to move up or down more than 1 tier."

I clearly specify both why DMbrandon's list is based on more than pure opinion, and also acknowledge that a substantial number of characters will likely change tiers.

That I haven't played the game is correct. However, DMbrandon has. A lot, with experienced players, as indicated by the below quote:
"These are my impressions after long hours of play. I didn't play at a friend's house, I didn't play a demo for 20 minutes over three days. I've 80 hours logged by my crew and myself (Gameclock time) at 9pm Feb 4th."

He and his crew have probably played 200 hours by now. Also note that he has changed the list several times, and is likely going to make big changes after playing it for several more weeks.

 

[dmbrandon]

Zamus doesn't impress me at all. Of all the newcomers, she's the least useful in singles. She's too easily tricked, and she has few options.

By the way, America's Best Dance Crew is succchhhhh a good show!!! :D!!!

 

[Firekid2]

IC due for upgrade?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzSbzqczG0

 

[Shellshock821]

IC due for upgrade?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzSbzqczG0

Man that video was awesome, I'm glad to see the Icy's are doing it to people again. I was worried about how they might be without wavedashing, but looks like with their new chain grabs they'll be alright.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zamus doesn't impress me at all. Of all the newcomers, she's the least useful in singles. She's too easily tricked, and she has few options.

By the way, America's Best Dance Crew is succchhhhh a good show!!! :D!!!

<_< you think that improves your credibility?



@ Gamer8 and Wodan46
- Gamer 8 is pretty correct here... as good as you think DMBrandon may be wodan, a teir list CANNOT be made from one person or a small group of people... they just can't possibly hope to hope to cover enough playstyles to know how characters really stack up. Teir lists are compiled by multiple pros with each character coming together after a good deal of gameplay and tournaments and compiling tentative teir lists from their data. and even THESE teir lists are hugely susceptable to change and evem once they are pretty well completed, they aren't 100% correct so I'm sorry wodan, but dmbrandon's list is probably not 2/3 correct. he'd be lucky if he got 50%.
- Most information I can gather, and personal experience say that the space animals are finally not top teir anymore... but this "tier list" says they are. this is proof that this teir list is biased by the creator. I mean, if you are goodwith space animals and "easily tricked" with ZSS, of course you'll rate them that way even if it's not correct.

seriously guys, don't take this list seriously... I mean, it's not likely 100% wrong, but it's not correct enough that you should use it as a reference source or use it to pick your character.


oh, and, p.s. Captain Falcon seems awful. I support him there.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

ugth it's not even a good time to rate characters. Have you guys noticed edit's to the ops posts.....that means he's changing the list based on how he plays so even a thread about his opinionated impressions it's fleeting and ever changing.....oh and should I remind our viewers that this is indeed one man's opinions?

 

[ConeZone]

most people's ratings are above 7 or 7.5...is 7 average or something? maybe there are just tons of good characters haha

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Diddy=Melee Fox...or is it Wolf...?

 

[Sci Fi Samurai]

Hm, pity to hear that Link sucks. I'll be playing him anyway, though.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Diddy=Melee Fox...or is it Wolf...?

I think I can safely answer this one: at this point, there is no character in brawl that is broken... so it doesn't look like there will be a melee fox in brawl... but as for bect chaarcters... it's to early to tell, but olimar and toon link seem excellent, but so do zelda marth, diddy and lucas... it's hard to say for sure who will come out on top so just play who you want to, not who everyone says is awesome.

 

[wodan46]

Yo DMbrandon you ever gonna update again, or are you too busy playing Brawl?

 

[Lgndknight]

All semm to hang around 5-7. promising.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

is float canceling where peach cancels her first jump into a float right above the stage? if so, then dmbrandon is COMPLETELY wrong. How wrong you ask? wrong enough that the CPUs actually do this with peach.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That isn't what float cancelling is at all.

Did you play melee?

 

[Buju.]

Thankyou man, now to see who to main, fox, pokemon trainer, or diddy.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

That isn't what float cancelling is at all.

Did you play melee?

yes, quite a bit, but I didn't play peach and wasn't active in the smash community so, while I've seen most of the advanced techniques in action, I might not know their names... or visa versa... I might know it's name but not have seen it. but thank you oh so much for not being haughty and asserting the supremecy of the smash professional and his jargon from the loft perch of the high horse.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah, you were right, that was a bit condescending of me.

I meant no harm.

My apologies.

 

[ErciChewman]

it's nice to get information on characters like what they can or cannot do or their physical stats, but stating your opinions is just dumb.

After speaking to Cort, who played Brawl with Darc and Dazwa for a nice long session, he basically said that just about every character is at least decent and playable. He also mentioned that ZSS was a beast, so i don't know what you guys have been doing with her, but i doubt she's garbage like you say. I'll definitly take the word of pros before I take some random "experienced melee players" seriously.

You guys have DK as low tier lol. Bum is already 3 stocking everyone in NY with DK, no one has even beaten him yet.

Pay attention to what really great players are doing and you'll get a better idea of what's going on.

 

[2L84U]

What the heck is over 9000 doing in this thread !?
Zelda is really good in Brawl.

PS: I thought this was a dash-b-air thread at first glimpse.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Yeah, you were right, that was a bit condescending of me.

I meant no harm.

My apologies.

appology accepted... sorry for getting all in a fit about it...


as long as we are on the topic though... do you know how funny it is to see a CPU peach do her ground float trick thing (whatever it's called) or CPU foxes using the reflector as a weapon. I mean, it's one thing when a human does it but I never expected the brawl bots to employ melee pro tactics.

 

[dmbrandon]

it's nice to get information on characters like what they can or cannot do or their physical stats, but stating your opinions is just dumb.

After speaking to Cort, who played Brawl with Darc and Dazwa for a nice long session, he basically said that just about every character is at least decent and playable. He also mentioned that ZSS was a beast, so i don't know what you guys have been doing with her, but i doubt she's garbage like you say. I'll definitly take the word of pros before I take some random "experienced melee players" seriously.

You guys have DK as low tier lol. Bum is already 3 stocking everyone in NY with DK, no one has even beaten him yet.

Pay attention to what really great players are doing and you'll get a better idea of what's going on.

Dk was where on the tier list last game? And Bum did what to people in melee? Exactly.

I still haven't seen anyone impress me with Zamus yet.

 

[Metzger]

I think you're relatively close to how I feel. I think you're being a bit too generous with Diddy and a little too harsh on Olimar, but we're still pretty early yet. I definitely agree about Zero Suit Samus, though; she's going to be decidedly average when the dust settles, I predict.

 

[dmbrandon]

Diddy is too good. He gimps so much, it sickening.

Olimar gets killed too easily. Which is good, cause otherwise, he's be broken as hell.

 

[Israfel]

Chillin's Zamus is **** impressive.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PCfwqY5cm5A&feature=related

 

[Metzger]

Diddy is too good. He gimps so much, it sickening.

Olimar gets killed too easily. Which is good, cause otherwise, he's be broken as hell.

I think Diddy's fantastic, but from what I've seen his priority isn't so hot. Once they're at a moderate percentage DI tends to give players enough room to kill a lot of Diddy's momentum. Good kill power for this kind of character, though. I think he's going to get a lot of tournament play.

Olimar... yeah, he is pretty gimpable, but getting him off the stage in the first place is easier said than done. His power is ridiculous; once people really get a feel for his spacing I think he's going to win a lot of matches just on the virtue of him getting that first kill so often. Going toe-to-toe on that first stock almost always winds up with Olimar way ahead of the game in terms of percentage. Maybe I just hate fighting the little *******, but I'll be really surprised if he isn't considered "top tier" come this time next year.

 

[Rhubarbo]

Some of your edits were made after the community leared about them that would have probably been obvious the first time you played. Have you actually played the game?

 

[dmbrandon]

Chillin's Zamus is **** impressive.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PCfwqY5cm5A&feature=related

I don't really think so, though. That's supposed to be chillin's main, and he goes bairly toe-to-toe with any character azen plays.

I've seen people impress me with yoshi for as much as that video did with zamus. I just don't see her being good.

I think Diddy's fantastic, but from what I've seen his priority isn't so hot. Once they're at a moderate percentage DI tends to give players enough room to kill a lot of Diddy's momentum. Good kill power for this kind of character, though. I think he's going to get a lot of tournament play.

Olimar... yeah, he is pretty gimpable, but getting him off the stage in the first place is easier said than done. His power is ridiculous; once people really get a feel for his spacing I think he's going to win a lot of matches just on the virtue of him getting that first kill so often. Going toe-to-toe on that first stock almost always winds up with Olimar way ahead of the game in terms of percentage. Maybe I just hate fighting the little *******, but I'll be really surprised if he isn't considered "top tier" come this time next year.

Didd'y priority won't matter, because he can pressure you with bananas until he gets an opening. It insane. Not to mention he has 3 ****ing spikes. v_v

Fighting olimar get's easier once you figure out what all of his moves look like under that garbled mess of pikman. He only has 3 usable options when you're in front of him. Grab, dsmash, or Fair. Maybe fsmash if there's an opening. It's actually easy to read once you get the hang of it, but a lot will come down to the player's skills on both sides.

 

[dmbrandon]

Some of your edits were made after the community leared about them that would have probably been obvious the first time you played. Have you actually played the game?

Nope, not once. This whole thread is speculation.

 

[Irmão Esmagador]

Characters ratings = a modified tier-list.

And people care too much about those things. Choose the character you like, and play. Instead, some prefer to see who is the "top tier". That is just crap.

I know a lot of people who won't agree with it, but I do not care for those lists.
I'm not saying tier-lists and others shouldn't be done, but I'm saying to stop taking it as definitive rule.
And YES, I think it's too early to do this list.

I don't really think so, though. That's supposed to be chillin's main, and he goes bairly toe-to-toe with any character azen plays.

I've seen people impress me with yoshi for as much as that video did with zamus. I just don't see her being good.



Didd'y priority won't matter, because he can pressure you with bananas until he gets an opening. It insane. Not to mention he has 3 ****ing spikes. v_v

Fighting olimar get's easier once you figure out what all of his moves look like under that garbled mess of pikman. He only has 3 usable options when you're in front of him. Grab, dsmash, or Fair. Maybe fsmash if there's an opening. It's actually easy to read once you get the hang of it, but a lot will come down to the player's skills on both sides.

See what you are doing? "NO, THIS CHARACTER CAN'T BE GOOD, THERE'S NO CHANCE"
Stop acting as if you knew who is bad and who is good. Please.

Thank you.

 

[redgreenblue]

I don't agree with a lot of your ratings... for instance, Game and Watch. He's supposed to be leagues better than the Melee one. He's faster, has longer range, his smashes have more KOing ability and come out faster, and he can attack right after up+b, or float to safety using the parachute.

 

[dmbrandon]

I don't agree with a lot of your ratings... for instance, Game and Watch. He's supposed to be leagues better than the Melee one. He's faster, has longer range, his smashes have more KOing ability and come out faster, and he can attack right after up+b, or float to safety using the parachute.

He's overdue for an update. but it won't be huge.

The MW thinks he's top tier, but I don't see it. His lag on his Fair is INSANE. And his ko ability off the stage is weak, which is an important factor. I imagine him getting spanked by projectiles. Especially toon link, and olimar. He can't attackk directly after UB. He has to complete the animation.

By the way: You said supposed. Which shows me you haven't played it. If you haven't you can't form solid opinions, yet. Don't be so eager.

 

[Irmão Esmagador]

I don't agree with a lot of your ratings... for instance, Game and Watch. He's supposed to be leagues better than the Melee one. He's faster, has longer range, his smashes have more KOing ability and come out faster, and he can attack right after up+b, or float to safety using the parachute.

Just like I said one post ago. It's just not right what he is doing...

And he just replied that G&W can't be very good:

He's overdue for an update. but it won't be huge.

The MW thinks he's top tier, but I don't see it. His lag on his Fair is INSANE. And his ko ability off the stage is weak, which is an important factor. I imagine him getting spanked by projectiles. Especially toon link, and olimar. He can't attackk directly after UB. He has to complete the animation.

By the way: You said supposed. Which shows me you haven't played it. If you haven't you can't form solid opinions, yet. Don't be so eager.

Why don't you change the thread's name? Why not "MY RATINGS AND ASK THE SSB BRAWL MASTER!".

 

[dmbrandon]

Just like I said one post ago. It's just not right what he is doing...

Wahhhh. It's not riiiight.

Who the hell are you to decide what's right? I'm not forcing people to choose marth, I'm giving a small, detailed OUTLINE on the game's competitive play. You coming into my thread and telling the world that what I'm doing is wrong, is what's not right.

Maybe this is how I have fun?

Maybe you should find something better to do.

 

[Metzger]

Didd'y priority won't matter, because he can pressure you with bananas until he gets an opening. It insane. Not to mention he has 3 ****ing spikes. v_v

Fighting olimar get's easier once you figure out what all of his moves look like under that garbled mess of pikman. He only has 3 usable options when you're in front of him. Grab, dsmash, or Fair. Maybe fsmash if there's an opening. It's actually easy to read once you get the hang of it, but a lot will come down to the player's skills on both sides.

The bananas are pretty slick, but I've seen them work against him a few times now against smart players. They're really easy for an opponent to both catch and just plain pick up off the ground.

Maybe I'm just bad at reading Olimar right now (which is definitely possible). I just think he's so dangerous because when he punishes someone for a mistake... it's ridiculous. I've seen him rack up like 80-95% in less than five seconds. I'm glad he is gimpable, because were it not for that I think he'd wreck shop on pretty much anyone.

 

[Irmão Esmagador]

Wahhhh. It's not riiiight.

Who the hell are you to decide what's right? I'm not forcing people to choose marth, I'm giving a small, detailed OUTLINE on the game's competitive play. You coming into my thread and telling the world that what I'm doing is wrong, is what's not right.

Maybe this is how I have fun?

Maybe you should find something better to do.

And WHO THE HELL ARE YOU to make ratings?
Excuse me, you're doing people give up of their characters. Some of then even posted it. I didn't say what's wrong, if you actually read what I wrote.
Mr. dmbrandon, our dear Smash Master, you could easily compete with Sakurai, with your never-ending knowledge.

You don't even accept if someone says you're not right.
This thread should be closed already: What if everybody starts having fun making ratings, and everyone creates a thread like this?
If you can do a list like this, everybody has the right too.

 

[dmbrandon]

The bananas are pretty slick, but I've seen them work against him a few times now against smart players. They're really easy for an opponent to both catch and just plain pick up off the ground.

Maybe I'm just bad at reading Olimar right now (which is definitely possible). I just think he's so dangerous because when he punishes someone for a mistake... it's ridiculous. I've seen him rack up like 80-95% in less than five seconds. I'm glad he is gimpable, because were it not for that I think he'd wreck shop on pretty much anyone.

You're absolutely right. Those bananas are a mixed blessing, but if you're good with them, you can beast people into tripping 5-6 times ina row, into a combo

And WHO THE HELL ARE YOU to make ratings?
Excuse me, you're doing people give up of their characters. Some of then even posted it. I didn't say what's wrong, if you actually read what I wrote.
Mr. dmbrandon, our dear Smash Master, you could easily compete with Sakurai, with your never-ending knowledge.

You don't even accept if someone says you're not right.
This thread should be closed already: What if everybody starts having fun making ratings, and everyone creates a thread like this?
If you can do a list like this, everybody has the right too.

Stop flaming my thread. Everyone doesn't have the right, no. People who will take time to detil each character do. Kish made a decent thread, and there have been a few others who did it extraordinarily well.

If you read how people are giving up their characters, perhaps they feel they want to try and be a top player in the scene, and the best way to do that, is ***** the top tier. That's common sense.

Mew2king. Plays Marth and Fox. weird.

and it's not that I don't accept it, it's that I don't agree. I don't say YOU'RE A BIG DOUCHE GO TO HELL. I say that I don't agree, and explain why in small detail. Don't like it? Don't read it.

Problem solved.

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

And WHO THE HELL ARE YOU to make ratings?
Excuse me, you're doing people give up of their characters. Some of then even posted it. I didn't say what's wrong, if you actually read what I wrote.

What are you, the opinion police? If you haven't noticed, TONS of people have given their opinions on the characters in General Brawl Discussion. Thing is, few have backed up why they feel this way about the character with reasoning. He's not telling anyone not to play as a character he thinks isn't great.

Meanwhile, you look like a blubbering idiot for bashing the opinions of a few people. Congratulations.

 

[Gindler]

Yoshi speed: 5

Toon Link speed: 8?

This is total BS, whoever made this character rating has no idea what they're talking about (or at least on the speed portion anyway)

http://smashbrawlrankings.com/index.php?topic=903

Look at that chart, yoshi is FASTER than toon link! and samus, DK, Link, Falco, Wolf, Olimar, Pit, squirtle, ivysaur, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas, and game & watch. Those are all the characters that are infact slower than yoshi but on this character rating scale are rated higher than him for some reason, yoshi needs some ups on this little rating scale.

 

[dmbrandon]

Yoshi speed: 5

Toon Link speed: 8?

This is total BS, whoever made this character rating has no idea what they're talking about (or at least on the speed portion anyway)

http://smashbrawlrankings.com/index.php?topic=903

Look at that chart, yoshi is FASTER than toon link! and samus, DK, Link, Falco, Wolf, Olimar, Pit, squirtle, ivysaur, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas, and game & watch. So if speed has anything to do with running, yoshi at least needs to be upgraded from the 5 seeing how he's faster than most of the characters speed rated above him.

Speed isn't just running. It's speed in the air, DI, and attacking speed.

Edit: 1,000 posts! GET AT ME