Guide Official Matchup Discussion

[Rubyiris]

DualCats, Eef, and Yeah!/Bubs are from AZ. That means their GnW's are better by default.

 

[j00t]

True dat .

 

[MimicMew]

You and not QERB? <_<

Oh fine QERB can be that Vman of G&W

If QERB is the Vman of G&W, j00t is the Taj of G&W. ;]

 

[j00t]

awwwwwwwwww snap

i'm fine with that

 

[DualCats]

DualCats, Eef, and Yeah!/Bubs are from AZ. That means their GnW's are better by default.

This is the dirty ****ing truth.

 

[V3ctorMan]

lol <3 you guys...

The "Vman" of (insert low tier here)

^this like a new trend or something? i'm lost..

XD

love you guys =D

 

[j00t]

You're an inspiration to all low tier mains man

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, trudat! I mean, you and a few other players inspired me to stick with Samus, and I know she isn't low-tier, but she isn't high tier either.

If QERB is the Vman of G&W, j00t is the Taj of G&W. ;]

That means that, somewhere down the line, j00t is gonna betray G&W and start using someone else just as much during hard matches in tourney. Oh wait, he already does....

 

[j00t]

Have you played G&W vs Fox or Falco

If you did then you'd understand why I don't use him in those matchups

 

[bubbaking]

I think that's Taj's excuse, too......

 

[j00t]

You love bashing me don't you

 

[Bing]

At the tournament Saturday I did G&W dittos for about 10 minutes lol... so much fun lol

 

[bubbaking]

You love bashing me don't you

Nah, I'm just playin' around. I honestly don't care who people play. After all, I main Samus, but Sheik is my secondary.

 

[j00t]

I just realized i can't be the taj of g&w because of dire

ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu------

 

[bubbaking]

? ??

 

[QERB]

I just realized i can't be the taj of g&w because of dire

ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu------

Don't strive to be the taj of g&w, you gotta make your OWN name. Be the j00t of G&W NP =D

 

[j00t]

but j00t sucks

 

[bubbaking]

It does indeed suck. Bubbaking is so much better. Serious talk, I can't deal with the Fire Emblem chars. Personally, I find them more difficult than Spacies. They have no reason to approach and every time I try they just outrange or outprioritize me.

 

[QERB]

It does indeed suck. Bubbaking is so much better. Serious talk, I can't deal with the Fire Emblem chars. Personally, I find them more difficult than Spacies. They have no reason to approach and every time I try they just outrange or outprioritize me.

I understand what you're saying when it comes to marth, but i find the roy matchup reallllllllly easy to play.

Against Roy I usually ban FD, just because it has no platforms. It's very easy to camp roy from the platforms on any other stage, cuz he's extremely limited when it comes to his movepool to hit people who are above him.

Sure Roy's f-smash/f-tilt outranges gw's f-air a bit, but they are both relatively slow and have a decent amount of post-lag which is definitely punishable. Best bet would be to bait either one of those moves and then punish, or just camp around the platforms until the roy misplays, which is how I usually tend to do the matchup.

Marth of course isn't as easy, he outranged you on the ground and in the air as well. It is difficult (borderline impossible) to directly approach marth. So what I usually do is constantly pseudo-approach him and try to make him react. Basically I'll throw out f-airs or move in a way that the marth will think I am fully committing to an approach, in hopes that he'll react and get out of position. This is the only way I've had success against marths. Basically you have to be really patient until he falls for a bait. Luckily, g&w can punish marth quite a bit since he can link f-airs together and such, piling on a good amount of damage at low %'s.

Also, whenever marth is above you, you have to take full advantage, since doesnt have a lot of priority when coming downwards, unless he perfectly times a d-air, which is still a risky play for the marth. Knowing this, it's good to try to place n-airs underneath a marth when predicting where he's gonna land.

Just how I go about the matchups.

 

[odinNJ]

CC dtilt roy till he cries, recover high, ban fd, di out all the time, gimp him, its as simple as that

 

[oliman]

imo most difficult MUs

1. Marth
2. Fox
3. Falco
4. Peach
5. Sheik
6. Falcon

dunno where to put puff

thoughts?

 

[bubbaking]

Puff apparently isn't that bad for G&W...

 

[ruhtraeel]

Apparently G&W can counter Puff, but the problem would be that Puff's attacks are so much faster and if you whiff an aerial (or any move) you get punished for it cause of G&W's horrible lag

IMO hardest matchups are

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Puff
5. Marth

 

[bubbaking]

No way! Marth is tons harder than Puff. I'm pretty sure QERB, J00t, and Dualcats have all agreed that G&W can do quite well vs Puff. Marth, on the other hand, just destroys G&W. He outprioritizes Game both on the ground and in the air, and one tipper combo pretty much equals death. Let's also not forget that recovering against Marth is a huge pain. I'm fairly certain that it's been established that G&W's four hardest MUs, in some order (that I don't know), are the spacees, Sheik, and Marth.

 

[Cactuarz]

G&W has tools to deal with marth, I'm pretty bad at the matchup, but back when we had weekly chats, we talked about the marth matchup for like an hour. Vs Marth jab is incredibly important to use whenever he tries to grab you, you can use dair at the ledge to hit him if he sweetspots. Puff matchup is meh. Worst matchups imo Fox then falco/doc seriously... doc is so hard to deal with. Sheik is my favorite matchup, so I may be slightly biased

 

[ruhtraeel]

Yeah I never found Marth to be too hard because of jab and getting in close, but Puff is a lot harder to space against IMO because she can punish harder

 

[j00t]

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Puff

I find the Links incredibly hard to deal with as well.

I haven't played G&W seriously in months, tbh... I gave up on him

 

[bubbaking]

I think my friend, AvidScroll, did too...

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach also stomps this character, in my experience.

/dip

 

[Beat!]

1. Fox
2. Falco
3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Puff

I agree with this completely.

Marth might be a little tougher than Sheik in PAL. Doesn't really matter either way, though. They all stomp the little guy.

 

[oliman]

I too don't think sheik is the hardest for g&w to deal with. He can edgeguard her quite well, combo her effectively, has range to avoid grabs, and stuff like that. Obv. a difficult MU, esp in high level, but it is, dare I say, managable.

Fox is basically impossible I think. his defensive game is just way too good, and he can put himself in areas that g&w just can't deal with. lower level makes it easier but i think against a serious, knowledgable fox this MU is unwinnable.

Falco is definitely really hard but he's slower than fox and dies quicker. edgeguards are easier than against fox, chaingrabs go for longer, and super combos hurt much more. still awful.

Puff is apparently way easy(er) but idk how to play this matchup at all. backair seems really hard to get around and puff can zone easily.

 

[bubbaking]

IFalco is definitely really hard but he's slower than fox and dies quicker. edgeguards are easier than against fox, chaingrabs go for longer, and super combos hurt much more. still awful.

You meant Falco, right?

Puff is apparently way easy(er) but idk how to play this matchup at all. backair seems really hard to get around and puff can zone easily.

Whose bair? Although I guess both of them have decent bairs for zoning.

 

[oliman]

You meant Falco, right?



Whose bair? Although I guess both of them have decent bairs for zoning.

Yup, falco.
Puff's bair. THE bair.

 

[QERB]

Updated this thread with puff matchup! Didn't add any cool colors or anything, but hopefully it's entertaining enough to read through. Planning on hopefully updating this matchup thread more often. Also while i'm here, my top 5 most difficult matchups:

1. Peach
2. Fox
3. Sheik
4. Falco
5. IC's

(Peach and IC's placement due to lack of experience i guess)

 

[Upke]

Keep fighting the good fight, QERB.

 

[StickandFluid]

any advice on Roy I know he's just gimped marth but Im having trouble against Roy the ones I play at least

 

[QERB]

any advice on Roy I know he's just gimped marth but Im having trouble against Roy the ones I play at least

General advice I would give against Roy is to:
1. Ban FD, Roy seems to struggle more than usual when we are above him, since his aerials aren't very threatening. Playing on a stage with platforms makes approaching a lot easier.

2. Although Roy has a sword, he doesn't out-range G&W in all aspects. For example, when edge guarding Roy, jumping off stage and dropping with an n-air will trade with Roy's up (especially the horizontal version of his up-b), which should make recovering very difficult for him.

3. Don't be overly aggressive. I generally advise people to play G&W aggressively because he seems to be best in that setting, but don't constantly approach. A lot of our moves are very hard hitting, and Roy's counter (down-b) can ruin us. Try to bait him to commit and punish with grabs and f-airs. If you are too obvious with your approaches his counter can be rough.

4. Don't get caught with your shield up. Roy's F-smash can kill us pretty soundly at ~50% on some stages. If you sit in your shield too long, a random thrown f-smash can easily shield-stab our pitiful shield, or catch you trying to throw an aerial OOS. I know this has happened to me before especially.

5. He's relatively easy to combo, take advantage of chain'ing f-airs together and tech chase punishes on platforms and such.

Pretty general stuff, I don't have vast roy experience by any means but that's just how i feel about the matchup

 

[S7GF]

So I'm getting back into smash - this is a new account - and I'm picking up Mr. Game and Watch. I understand the amazing combo potential G&W has because of his grabs and awesome d-tilt on spacies, but what do you do against Jiggs?

In my experience, jabbing for me is hard, which is suggested on this thread. I'll usually try grabbing too early and will jab again or lightshield. How do you fix this? What else works against jiggly if shes spacing with b-airs? F-airs are recommended, but how is the hitstun compared to knockback?

Getting her above you seems like a great idea, but G&W's u-air hitbox is really awkward. What other options are there?

 

[S7GF]

Depending on port priority *not sure who has to be higher/may not depend on priority?* but if fox uthrows G&W sometimes instead of going all the way up he'll kind of snap to the platform.

Say you get uthrow'd and about half the distance you'd fly there's a platform. Instead of going up you suddenly land on the platform. Apparently you can tech it *not sure since I don't get to play good fox's since I moved* I'd imagine that would be nice.

Sorry for the double post, but I think this works with Falco, too. If you can DI a certain way and miss getting hit by those lasers, you'll snap to the platform. I know because I've teched this.

 

[oliman]

After watching QERB, I'm pretty sure that the vs. Peach matchup isn't as awful as I thought before. Some thoughts:

1. She has to commit to grabbing the ledge/ guarding the stage/ going off stage more than others. Makes edgeguarding more difficult for her.
2. GnW is pretty good at putting Peach above him, where he can easily take advantage of her bad priority and hitboxes
3. Killing her isn't the worst. From my experience and data, she dies on most stages about as quick as the other top tiers, and sometimes even earlier
4. He outranges her. Nothing new here, but it helps in the fact that she can't punish spaced fairs and such on shield. He can approach her with some success.

Not saying that it's great, just saying (in my head and theory) that it isn't as bad as I previously thought.
Any thoughts?

Also came to the conclusion that the *gay* Fox matchup is nigh unwinnable. Falco is doable, Sheik is doable, Fox is just a sick, monstrous, base, wife-beating, car-keying, hedge-fund-scamming jerk to our hero.