Official Stage Discussion

[Nefnoj]

Of all the times for Brawlvault to get a 503...

Good taste.

I really like your taste. In my build, I used to have a Hornet Hole with larger blastzones, and an extra platform on the left side from Rumble Falls. The Golden Sun battle, the all-in-one Bowser Battle, with maybe some more platforms. I think I like those ones so much because of their casual-ness. They're able to be unique and have faux-pas hazards, without being copies of final destination and battlefield. Other than that - there aren't very many stages that I love, given the limitations.

The Ultimate Show - from Super Paper Mario I've always loved large stages
Ganondorf's Battle - from Ocarina of Time, Casual, could use a few platforms

Great Bay - from Smash Bros. Melee, Functioning water makes it a bit less easy for cheating stage spikes. Tingle works pretty well, but it could use for an HD reboot. Just a little more Mewtwo2000 bias.
Ultimate Brinstar - based on Brinstar from Melee, This one, not only is beautiful, but it's easier to tell where the acid is and where it's going.

Cookie Country - from Kirby's Return to dreamland Large, and has a unique horizontal layout, my favourite work of Nezha the Scout .

Route 11 - from Pokémon Black & White I'm not a particular fan of Black & White, and it's a bit too big horizontally, but the platform animations are fun.

Lanayru Desert - from some game, I'm not fond of Skyward Sword, but this has a cool aesthetic with the time bubbles, which could lead to a few mechanics.


Wasn't there also a Tal Tal Heights stage somewhere, atop a giant egg?

 

[nimigoha]

The Lanayru Deset timeshift stones are really cool, it's hard to gauge the quality of the stage because the pictures/video aren't that great. Will give it a go.

Having the Dragon in the far background of the stage would have been a neat easter egg.

 

[Draco_The]

Behold.

 

[Nezha the Scout]

Hey everyone!

Here's a long overdue switch for the stage discussion. Sorry about that...
This time, we'll be doing something a little different. This time, we'll be discussing custom content!

What is your favorite unofficial PM (or Brawl) stage mod, and why?

Feel free to post links and/or screenshots to the stage!

My favorite stage has to be LenSho's Bell Tower, the original: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=12646

Spoiler

Its just so Aestetically pleasing. I wish it stays on said platform for most of the time, but it really gives the vibe Im looking for. Pure ambience and nature. Its a bliss. And its a feeling I don't get from many custom stages.

...

Just goes to show that old gold is still gold.

 

[The Incinerator]

Spoiler: Metroid Lab

To me this stage better captures the feel of Metroid as a series. Metroid is a series heavy with atmosphere, one that is dark, ominous and alien. To me Norfair cannot properly capture this atmosphere as it doesn't really differentiate itself from other games, sure Norfair is an important place in Metroid but almost every game from this era had a lava level. It may not be the most visually diverse stage but it definitely has the right Metroid-y aesthetic and differentiates itself well from stages already in Project M

Spoiler: Yoshi's Fortune

I haven't really played many Yoshi games but I really like the aesthetics of this stage. The bright colour palette really lends itself nicely to this stage, as does the background. I do like the original Yoshi's Story as a stage but in my opinion I think this stage fits the visual style of smash to greater degree while still retaining the charm we expect from the Yoshi series

These two stages are two of my favourite reskins (as of right now). They were made by Theytah who is already part of the PMDT and as a result I believe they look good enough to be included in an official build. I think the reason I like them so much is even though they are just reskins they further differentiate themselves from brawl and melee, something I see the PMDT already doing with stages like Wario Land. It's my hope that whether it is through adopting stages such as these or by creating new ones altogether that the PM dev team can give to the rest of the starter and counter pick stages what they did to Wario Land (Just a hope, I always end up loving whatever the PM dev team decides anyways!)

 

[Nefnoj]

Behold.

I was frankly expecting this one! Draco, you never disappoint.

My favorite stage has to be LenSho's Bell Tower, the original: http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=12646

Spoiler

Its just so Aestetically pleasing. I wish it stays on said platform for most of the time, but it really gives the vibe Im looking for. Pure ambience and nature. Its a bliss. And its a feeling I don't get from many custom stages.

...

Just goes to show that old gold is still gold.

It's definitely lovely, but I've always had a problem with characters just hanging out in the background of stages, just watching... It's weird.

 

[Llama Juice]

I've always had a problem with characters just hanging out in the background of stages, just watching... It's weird.

Spoiler

 

[Xermo]

I love Skeleton's work, namely his Osohe Castle and Lumine Hall. I think him and Lensho have one of the most creative approaches to stages; their work just looks very distinctive.

I'm more of a fan of original content stages, rather than excessive imports from Smash U or "game who's assets can easily be ripped and ported over" so I really tend to to appreciate the work that goes into a lot of the big name stage maker's content. Llama Juice's Venus Lighthouse especially considering I was there when he first pitched the idea.

 

[himemiya]

I was frankly expecting this one! Draco, you never disappoint.
It's definitely lovely, but I've always had a problem with characters just hanging out in the background of stages, just watching... It's weird.

So I take it that you're not a street fighter fan?

 

[The Incinerator]

It is being mentioned over and over agin but I would also like to say that I love venus lighthouse and would absolutely love it if it made it into PM officially one day!

 

[Nezha the Scout]

I'm more of a fan of original content stages, rather than excessive imports from Smash U or "game who's assets can easily be ripped and ported over" so I really tend to to appreciate the work that goes into a lot of the big name stage maker's content. Llama Juice's Venus Lighthouse especially considering I was there when he first pitched the idea.

Same. Its sad that imports get more attention and "wants" than more creative stages.. I like more PMs Wario Stage and Bowser's Castle than any WiiU stage mods in KCMM. Unlike imports, creative stages have stuff you never know what to expect to be in, and the creativity and attention to detail stage makers should put into their imagined stages bring surprises.

Heck, I even like remasters of imports like PM'S Hyrule Castle. Even though is base form used to be an import or atleast used as reference, it feels so different it feels custom. Thats something I also like a TON.

(Not bashing on imports, I use WiiU's FD instead of Melee's, and the Melee Final destination is better than brawls final destination for me, but its great to just randomly pop a random stage in the build.)

[Also, must be cuz I have the WiiU smash anyways, and the imported stages brings nothing new to me maybe.]

{And the Bell Tower I choose is an Import of Daigo Village, but it looks different in a way.}

I think I should stop, I'm blabbering too much with my nostalgia goggles.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Obviously I have to vouch for my own pet project:
Download link
Thread with more details

It's nothing spectacularly innovative or artistic, but I cannot understate how refreshing it is to get to play with the unique movement and spacing facilitated by great layouts like WW's and PS's – without the intrusion of unavoidable, broken, deadly hazards.

While others have expressed the most enthusiasm for DIY Studio, eShop is my favorite. Its stacked platforms introduce a lot of vertical play which can make the game feel totally new at times:

Spoiler: Collisions

Spoiler: Norfair's assets

Spoiler: eShop themed

 

[Nefnoj]

What about the Project M Dev's favourite custom stages? I'm now curious about that.

 

[flintconfirmed]

Everyone already knows that I'm the biggest fan of Skeleton's work.

My absolute favorite is Osohe Castle. It's a super well done original work, it has interesting platform layout. It stays true to the original area while changing things enough to be usable in smash.

And finally, it just feels right to click on Osohe Castle, since it was supposed to be planned as a stage for Melee.

The only other absolute favorite I have is Xerom's Heavenly Host Elementary. I'd never heard of Corpse Party before, but the stage layout and design choices feel so beautifully correct. It's got a unique lower blast zone that feels strangely great when you either KO or even getting KO'd.

The stage was interesting enough to convince me that I should go out and try the game its from. And that is a huge detail to me. If a character or stage in a crossover game is fun enough that you consider buying into the franchise represented, then I believe that that truly is impressive game design.

Edit: fun defined as actual fun and not just random jank.

 

[Rᴏb]

Basically all of Edwguard Flow's work, he makes the vanilla brawl stages look much more appealing.

 

[Nefnoj]

Basically all of Edwguard Flow's work, he makes the vanilla brawl stages look much more appealing.

I only like his Brinstar, it's beautiful, everything else is kind of stock Brawl Vault, I think. Nothing too woah.

 

[Tiberious]

Has anyone made a version of Melee Battlefield that accurately recreates the background of the stage? The one that's in the 3.6 build currently is, well, rather distracting.

As far as I can tell, the original's is kinda simple: three rotating concave surfaces, each with an environment texture on them (think Alloy reflections), and an inverted cylinder with a grid that determines where a rainbow texture shows (as both do a texture animation at differing speeds).

 

[GFooChombey]

I forgot to mention a simply reskin of PS2 that drops Poketopia from Battle Revolution in the background. I can't find a link to it, but I find the background of the regular stage quite boring. This reskin was a simple nice touch.

Also the background on the current Melee battlefield is awesome.
Late Edit: While we're talking about Melee Battlefield though, the texture around the rim of the main stage disappears in the center and the platforms aren't very transparent compared to Melee.

 

[Xermo]

Has anyone made a version of Melee Battlefield that accurately recreates the background of the stage? The one that's in the 3.6 build currently is, well, rather distracting.

As far as I can tell, the original's is kinda simple: three rotating concave surfaces, each with an environment texture on them (think Alloy reflections), and an inverted cylinder with a grid that determines where a rainbow texture shows (as both do a texture animation at differing speeds).

Melee Battlefield's original background was never imported / recreated. Iirc there was a specific reason as to why it hasn't been done so, but I don't remember. Tabuu's background was the closest alternative back then.

 

[_Chrome]

In my opinion the PM Battlefield looks better than the Melee Battlefield. Updated, better graphics, more polished, vivid colours... I don't see how it could be distracting, unless you're comparing it to the boring and bland Brawl Battlefield. PM Battlefield is the best incarnation in the series for me.

 

[Tiberious]

In my opinion the PM Battlefield looks better than the Melee Battlefield. Updated, better graphics, more polished, vivid colours... I don't see how it could be distracting, unless you're comparing it to the boring and bland Brawl Battlefield. PM Battlefield is the best incarnation in the series for me.

Except that's just it. The background should be just that, a background. It's supposed to have more muted colors and in general less to catch the eye so that it doesn't detract from what's happening in the foreground. Unfortunately, bright swirling colors do pull the eye away from the colors you're supposed to be watching, i.e. the Alloys.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I forgot to mention a simply reskin of PS2 that drops Poketopia from Battle Revolution in the background. I can't find a link to it, but I find the background of the regular stage quite boring. This reskin was a simple nice touch.

Also the background on the current Melee battlefield is awesome.

I know that you're talking about. It's a really simple addition that adds a lot of flavor to the stage. I'd love the see it.

Here's a video using that stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NYbaFcAKE8

 

[_Chrome]

Any possibility that the Original and Alt of Bowser's Castle can be switched? Especially since I think the Current Alt is competitively viable and all of the other alts happen to be the casual versions. Also what about making Bowser's alt a legal stage in tournaments?

 

[Xermo]

Any possibility that the Original and Alt of Bowser's Castle can be switched? Especially since I think the Current Alt is competitively viable and all of the other alts happen to be the casual versions. Also what about making Bowser's alt a legal stage in tournaments?

What stages are legal in tournaments aren't decided by the PMDT. The stage was also made casually first, and competitively second; there's no need to switch them around to appease a minority.

 

[_Chrome]

What stages are legal in tournaments aren't decided by the PMDT. The stage was also made casually first, and competitively second; there's no need to switch them around to appease a minority.

I know they aren't decided by the PMDT. However, if the PMDT switches the positioning of the alt and original, more people would consider it a competitive stage. Besides, I see no reason why they wouldn't be switched around since as far as I know no casual-only player would really mind the two being switched. The switch would simply give more exposure to an incredible neutral stage. If they were switched, they would be more commonly considered for tournies: all I see are pros and no cons.

 

[nimigoha]

I know they aren't decided by the PMDT. However, if the PMDT switches the positioning of the alt and original, more people would consider it a competitive stage. Besides, I see no reason why they wouldn't be switched around since as far as I know no casual-only player would really mind the two being switched. The switch would simply give more exposure to an incredible neutral stage. If they were switched, they would be more commonly considered for tournies: all I see are pros and no cons.

Anyone would be hard-pressed to find a rebuttal to this. PMDT stages that are "competitive" are put first, with their "janky" counterpart as an alt.

No reason to not make BC conform to the pattern, since it can then properly be included in stagelists without having to remember to hold L and without the need to switch the files yourself.

Plus it means you can Random to it.

 

[GFooChombey]

But then casuals won't random to Thwomp BC. Sure you can hold L on random, but a casual player probably won't know that. This would then limit exposure to an amazing custom stage in favor of adding the Nth neutral stage to the plethora of competitive stages already available which aren't even all used.

Either way, I recall a PMDT member saying they would likely do this switch for consistency.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

But then casuals won't random to Thwomp BC. Sure you can hold L on random, but a casual player probably won't know that. This would then limit exposure to an amazing custom stage in favor of adding the Nth neutral stage to the plethora of competitive stages already available which aren't even all used.

Either way, I recall a PMDT member saying they would likely do this switch for consistency.

It says to hold L on the stage select, so I'm sure casuals could figure it out. Plus you could make the same argument about all the other casual stages which are alts.

 

[Xermo]

Plus you could make the same argument about all the other casual stages which are alts.

I wasn't aware we denoted brawl stages to being casual.

"Competitive" consistency or not, it's bastardizing having the last minute ever-so-popular upgraded reskin take hold over P:M's true unique Bowser Castle just because muh stagelist.

 

[nimigoha]

I wasn't aware we denoted brawl stages to being casual.

"Competitive" consistency or not, it's bastardizing having the last minute ever-so-popular upgraded reskin take hold over P:M's true unique Bowser Castle just because muh stagelist.

Either way, you said in a post above that it shouldn't be switched to appease the minority. I can confidently say that many people are considering Competitive Bowser's Castle as a viable stage for tournament play, as it has a unique platform spacing and has walls as well as larger blast zones.

Switching it to the forefront and putting it in the bottom two rows is something that I think more people would accept than resist.

 

[Xermo]

"There's no need" were my exact words. Never said that it shouldn't happen nor that I'm opposed to it occurring. Simply that appeasing the fans of the neutral version while shafting the magnificent breakthrough of twomp hazards is in my disinterest.
I'm neutral either way.

 

[CORY]

something i was wondering about (not necessarily pertaining to the topic at hand):

is it possible or feasible to put a grabbable ledge platform somewhere above the battlefield layout in training room? one on each side? so you can jump on the platforms (or something like that, to accommodate different recovery lengths) and practice sweetspotting without having to die and respawn over and over?

 

[nimigoha]

something i was wondering about (not necessarily pertaining to the topic at hand):

is it possible or feasible to put a grabbable ledge platform somewhere above the battlefield layout in training room? one on each side? so you can jump on the platforms (or something like that, to accommodate different recovery lengths) and practice sweetspotting without having to die and respawn over and over?

Training room needs more stuff for sure, something like this would be great. A way to practice ledge techs would be another.

I think they should just lower the wall on the left (there's not really a practical purpose to having it so huge other than wall climb practice) and put a ledge up there, so you can practice sweetspots up against walls as well as just open air sweetspots.

 

[CORY]

i was thinking one on each side so you can get used to visual and muscle memory from both directions.

i wonder if they could make a hole at the bottom, then put the solid wall in the middle of the stage with platforms on either side?

 

[nimigoha]

i was thinking one on each side so you can get used to visual and muscle memory from both directions.

i wonder if they could make a hole at the bottom, then put the solid wall in the middle of the stage with platforms on either side?

Well wth Alt stages thrown in they have lots of options. I think it's impossible to put together all training elements into a single stage but spread over 2 or 3? Doable.

 

[Nefnoj]

This is a bit obscure, but I think it should have Pokémon Stadium's screen. It's pretty informative, has neat camera-angles for closer looks on your attack, and it looks cool.

 

[Weedy Spyze]

Can I just say thank you for the option to have the alternate stages at all? I personally don't care about "competitive viability," and my biggest gripe with Project M in the past was that I found the stages dull as dirt. I'm really glad they implemented this feature for people such as me.

Kind of sucks that 64 Peach's Castle has to be there instead of the Melee version (wasn't that in a previous release? Or am I making that up?) and that Hyrule Castle's dull theme replaces The Hidden Village, but other than those nitpicks the latest release gets a thumbs up from me.

 

[Sandfall]

I apologize for not responding for a while, I've been completely swamped with engineering projects lately.

Anyway...

What about the Project M Dev's favourite custom stages? I'm now curious about that.

Like some of the others here, I'm also partial to Skeleton's work. My favorites are probably Minish Bar and Lanryu Desert. I loved the Minish Cap and I really enjoyed the background to that stage. The way he incorporated the time shift stones was really cool. The platform layouts could be improved a bit though.

I also really like Lensho's work. He managed to create a bunch of original, unique-looking stages almost exclusively using Brawl models. Some I remember off the top of my head are: Green Grove Galaxy, Twilight Palace, and Embedded Tower. Those were all great (for casual play at least).

something i was wondering about (not necessarily pertaining to the topic at hand):

is it possible or feasible to put a grabbable ledge platform somewhere above the battlefield layout in training room? one on each side? so you can jump on the platforms (or something like that, to accommodate different recovery lengths) and practice sweetspotting without having to die and respawn over and over?

In the future (when I have time), I plan on making a few training stages. Around the time I do so, I'll probably switch the topic to Training Room so I can see the kind of stuff the community wants.

 

[CORY]

I apologize for not responding for a while, I've been completely swamped with engineering projects lately.

Anyway...


Like some of the others here, I'm also partial to Skeleton's work. My favorites are probably Minish Bar and Lanryu Desert. I loved the Minish Cap and I really enjoyed the background to that stage. The way he incorporated the time shift stones was really cool. The platform layouts could be improved a bit though.

I also really like Lensho's work. He managed to create a bunch of original, unique-looking stages almost exclusively using Brawl models. Some I remember off the top of my head are: Green Grove Galaxy, Twilight Palace, and Embedded Tower. Those were all great (for casual play at least).


In the future (when I have time), I plan on making a few training stages. Around the time I do so, I'll probably switch the topic to Training Room so I can see the kind of stuff the community wants.

Awesome to hear!

 

[Llama Juice]

"Competitive" consistency or not, it's bastardizing having the last minute ever-so-popular upgraded reskin take hold over P:M's true unique Bowser Castle just because muh stagelist.

What's up dudes.

So, at first I wasn't keen on having the "legal alt" for bowsers. The thought being, if we have a legal alt, then nobody is ever going to play my thwompy version, and that's unfortunate. However, the only time that I personally play Project M is at various tournaments... and so that means that the only time I ever saw Bowser's Castle being played was when I'm up against someone that will no doubt beat me in bracket. Flip the match to a more casual lolfun setting instead of me just getting pummled. (I'm an artist, not a playtester. My job is to make the game pretty, not balance it )

So, after only seeing Bowser's Castle get played maybe 8 times during the 3.6 beta we decided to include the competitive version. My thoughts were that I had spent a huge amount of time on this stage, and that it's unfortunate that the competitive crowd doesn't get to utilize that at all.

There was a lot of discussion behind the scenes on where we should put the stages... should the thwompy version be on the alt? Should the legal version be on the alt? We were pretty split on it, and so we ended up adding the legal as the alt. With our next release these will most likely be switched around though for Random Stage Select purposes and consistency with a lot of the other stages.

So, all of that out of the way... My favorite custom stages?
When I first started out in this community I saw that the majority of stages that people were posting on the Brawl Vault were just reskins of Brawl/Melee/N64 stages.... and I thought that was pretty lame. I wasn't as competitive back then, so I didn't really understand the reasoning behind it at the time, but I just figured that I want to have more new experiences in the game, rather than just the same gameplay but with a different picture behind it. So that's why I started working on Golden Sun: Venus Lighthouse, and that's why I made the layout the way that it is. It's a pretty damn unique layout and it has some super fun moments when you're both trying to spike each other down the pit that opens up in the middle, and then the spiked player tries to walljump his way back out before it closes on him. Stuff like that I thought was super neat. It's casual as all hell, but I thought it was a really fun mechanic. Plus, I play Ivysaur, and that stage was designed and tweaked around that super unfairly. I've nicknamed that stage "Ivysaur's Playground." The stage was my first stage that I had created, and it shows though... with the slanted walls being where the gameplay takes place... it causes a lot of issues with players not quite knowing where the ledges are. It'd take a decent amount of work to get that stage to a proper level to have it up to the quality bar that we want in the PMDT.

I don't mean to toot my own horn here, but my other favorite stage would be thwompy bowser's castle. Again, I wanted new gameplay experiences... and the way that thwomp creates tension while still being a "fair" hazard makes it for a fun stage to play on. That paired with the idea that the center point of the stage can shift during battle is just interesting to me. The idea that stage control can shift slightly based on part of the map disappearing is interesting to me. It's just a fun stage, and I mean... I poured everything I had into creating it, so it holds a super special place in my heart. I just wish that we could have gotten everything into that stage that we wanted to do. There was a few neat elements that didn't fully get implemented, or got straight up cut out due to framerate issues.... and so that's unfortunate.

TL;DR: Bowser's Castle legal alt will most likely be in the main slot in our next release. It was made so that all of the work that went into Bowser's Castle's art would actually have a chance to be appreciated. My own custom stages, Venus Lighthouse and Bowser's Castle are my two favorite custom stages.