Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Dr. Mario

[Amazing Ampharos]

Welcome to the official Smashboards Standard Custom Set project. In brief, this project is designed to be a logistical solution to using custom movesets in tournaments by filling many of the in-game slots with the most popular and powerful sets for each character so they can be quickly selected without further 3ds import. This will allow tournaments with customizations on to save large amounts of time throughout the event. More details about the project's ideas and mission can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

Our goal here is to find out what the most popular and powerful sets are for your particular character the best way we know how: asking you the mains of this character. To be clear, we're not talking about disallowing any particular custom sets or even imposing any rules in general; we're talking about making sure the popular and powerful options are simply accessible quickly in a tournament environment as our sole mission. We need up to three critical sets that represent the best options your character has that have wide general utility and from there to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental movesets that will cover less mainstream, more match-up specific, or even teams sets. Slots 7 and 8 are reserved for 2222 and 3333 to allow all moves to be explored more easily in the new metagame, and slots 9 and 10 are left open for 3ds import of non-standard sets.

Please list all movesets in the order NSUD, that is neutral special, side special, up special, and down special. This four digit code will be the naming convention so players can quickly and easily identify which moveset is which.

I know for many characters the default moveset, 1111, is a powerful and useful option. However, it should not be included; the game allows default to be picked regardless of what custom options are prepared so including it does not add any additional options to players.

I further know that some characters may find six slots a large number to fill. Others may find six very limiting. Do your best to pick out the overall six most likely to be picked even if some good stuff has to be left on the table or if some more experimental sets have to be included to fill out six. Every set included is time saved in tournament when that set would be picked, and we want to make the best use we can of these slots.

I would ask that everyone please be respectful of each other's opinions; this game is young, and the metagame is still very much forming so we are likely to each perceive it differently. This project will be revisited throughout the game's lifespan and revised to properly include the most mainstream movesets at the time. What we want for now is what will be commonly selected for now, and don't worry, other options are not being discriminated against as those last two slots are left open for 3ds transfer for a reason. This first version of this project will be refined throughout the rest of the year, but I hope to have a very rough draft up and usable by December 5 so TOs who wish to use the results of this project will have something to plug in for that weekend's worth of events. Thank you for your cooperation in this project, and we look forward to making sure the most useful options are quickly available for your character under this system.

 

[Kisatamura]

Cool. It's hard for me to choose a different up special and down special because default Tornado has its uses, and default UpB has good damage without sacrificing recovery distance compared to Custom UpB 2 (Ol' One Two), which deals good damage, but I find it to have subpar recovery, which has always been one of Dr. Mario's weaknesses. However, I think it'll be better to get opinions from the rest of the Doc mains on which Neutral B to use, since the default covers a good range, the 1st option is essentially Falco's laser, and the 2nd option gives great advantage, but has incredible startup and endlag.

So here's my custom moveset:

N1: Default pills, cover more angles than N2 or N3
S3: I think most people agree the Gust Cape is a straight upgrade over the default cape. It has a bit more endlag than the regular, but most people overlook that. S2 might require more testing because some people on the Mario subforum have used it for edgeguarding.
U1: Gives you a decent out of shield move that has some horizontal recovery. I'd pick U3, but the lack of a hitbox makes Doc lose one of his best out of shield options.
D2: Soaring Tornado gives Doc a boost in vertical recovery though it doesn't give him horizontal movement, so Doc players should save their double jump for using it after this tornado. Though picking this tornado means that Doc loses a counter to rolls, as the default tornado starts up quick enough to either clash or have more priority over other attacks.

 

[19_]

I am not a doc main nor do I have tourney experience but I have been experimenting with doc a lot.

The sets I have been using are:
2312
1321
1312
2321
1322
2322

I believe these sets may be the most practical custom sets for doc mainly due to the better recovery and the use of breezy sheet which is the preferred option for easy gimping and spacing with the ablillity to reflect. Megavitamin/Fast capsule options based on stage pic and/or matchup.

these two sets:
1311
2311
could also be used for these who don't care about recovery and want the extra options.

I am honestly not a doc main (not yet maybe) so if anyone better sets feel free to correct me.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Neutral B - Either Special 1 or Special 2, DEPENDENT on the MU. Sometimes Megavitamins are better (IMO against Ganon since trajectory means he can't Wizard Drop Kick over them or run under them.
Side B - Breezy Cape. You lose nothing but gain a super annoying windbox.
Up B - Up+B 1 for sure. Doc's SJP is a GREAT OoS or even a combo ender out of D-throw. Excellent move.
Down B - Down+B 2 more often than not, but Down+B 1 is good for specific MUs (Blocks Sonic's Spindash, can beat moves for like, no reason)

 

[AJ34]

I actually really like the lightning cape custom move. It has surprising knockback and is not a bad KO move. I generally run standard pills and the tornado with the extra vertical recovery. Doc's customs are very important to his viability IMO.

 

[Wariofan13]

Ok, so this is a moveset I like to call "Overdose Dr. Mario".
Neutral: Fast Pills. The fast pills are easy to dispense quickly, kinda like Fox's Blaster but stronger. This is akin to Overdosing on drugs.
Side: Electrice Cape. This deals good damage and is a good K.O. move in a desperate time. It also seems (to me) that it increases vertical falling speed, which is good for being launched at low percents.
Up: Super Jump Punch. This may be a weak recovery move, but deals good damage.
Down: Rising Tornado. Since we're using the regular Super Jump Punch, we need to pair it with this for better recovery.
Now, let's go practice medicine. *laughing in German*

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Extrapolations from Reddit.

I can't speek for everyone, but I have much success with fast capsule, ol one two, spring tornado, and gust cape. (223?)

 

[Diamond DHD]

2332 is definitely the best IMO, sure with the Ol' One Two you lose some recovery but it kills almost earlier than rest and is easier to hit, there is absolutely no reason not to have it, it kills ridiculously early. The rest are fairly self-explanatory.

 

[Shucklin]

I like 1332 for doc and 1231 for Mario. With doc he has a better recovery if you jump and follow with a down b immediately, so its easier to offstage gimp with the breezy sheet considering the lost recovery in ol one two. Mario already has his water for gimping and he doesn't have the extra recovery so I give him the shock cape. Also i like the normal vitamins/fireballs cuz they deal more damage and theyre more disruptive to movement IMO.

 

[Blade Knight]

I run 1332 pretty exclusively. The change to Down B gives great recovery vs a lot of the cast, Breezy Sheet is an awesome and reliable tool, and Ol' One-Two makes for an astounding combo ender at all points of the game and is one of the best kill moves in the game overall. Sometimes 2332 if you really need a fast pestering projectile.

 

[Makai Wars]

I'm more of an offstage fighter, so recovery is a big deal to me- I have 2 customs dedicated to getting back to stage since Doc especially needs that extra boost.

I run
2322
3322
2312
1322
3322

Customs are very vital to making Doc work! This program will defiantly help him out a bunch.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ol' One Two is mixed with me. Good kill move sure but Up+B on its own already did that with longer hitboxes and a better OoS option. Even with Down+B 2 you want all the recovery you can get with Doc while preserving good shield options.

Plus you factor in rage and Up+B 1 works a lot better. The other thing about Up+B 1 that gives it an edge is that you can reverse it on its strongest hit and make yourself safer afterwards, unlike Ol' One Two where both hits have to connect for actual damage.

 

[Toxicroaker]

I also like the normal up-b better. No, it doesn't have the kill power, but ol' one two is horrid for recovery.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

The three sets I see being the most useful are 1311, 2311 and possibly 2332.
Gust Cape seems like a straight buff and really helps in edgeguarding and creating space, and I've had mixed results switching between normal pills and fast pills. I agree that UpB 1 is most likely going to be the best out of the three customs, but Ol' One Two's kill power out of a down throw is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Paired with DownB 2 for recovery, I think it should at least be considered before neglecting it, but I cam see why people would prefer not to lose the OoS options and DownB 1's amazing priority.

 

[TTTTTsd]

The three sets I see being the most useful are 1311, 2311 and possibly 2332.
Gust Cape seems like a straight buff and really helps in edgeguarding and creating space, and I've had mixed results switching between normal pills and fast pills. I agree that UpB 1 is most likely going to be the best out of the three customs, but Ol' One Two's kill power out of a down throw is something that shouldn't be overlooked. Paired with DownB 2 for recovery, I think it should at least be considered before neglecting it, but I cam see why people would prefer not to lose the OoS options and DownB 1's amazing priority.

I'm siding with this. @Amazing Amphraos If you could update Doc's entry with sets that involve Down-B 1 as I've discovered it can beat virtually anything that isn't a projectile or a disjoint, it's ACTUALLY amazing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Against Sonic, I would argue for 2221.

If Sonic spaces really well, it can be hard to land Up-B 1 on him, and he wouldn't want to approach recklessly anyway when you have tools like Down-B 1 and Fast Pills to throw at him. Thus the extra distance on Super Jump is important to ensure he can't gimp you easily offstage. You likely won't be gimping him, so the extra disjointed KO option from Shocking Sheet seems to be most useful against him.

Otherwise I can't really see any reason why I'd run anything other than 2X12.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Against Sonic, I would argue for 2221.

If Sonic spaces really well, it can be hard to land Up-B 1 on him, and he wouldn't want to approach recklessly anyway when you have tools like Down-B 1 and Fast Pills to throw at him. Thus the extra distance on Super Jump is important to ensure he can't gimp you easily offstage. You likely won't be gimping him, so the extra disjointed KO option from Shocking Sheet seems to be most useful against him.

Otherwise I can't really see any reason why I'd run anything other than 2X12.

Nado crushes Olimar (M@v and Dabuz confirmed this) and it outpriotizes basically any normal that isn't perfectly spaced or disjointed. I'd honestly take that over adding a very superfluous offstage option. I'd argue that you only want Down-B 2 if Nado isn't big in the MU but it's big in a lot of them IMO. It's just a VERY helpful move and people usually relegate it to beating Sonic or recovery but it's honestly a STRONG move.

It can also edgeguard. No, really, if they go high you can cover basically any option they have with Doc Nado. Timed right it beats airdodges, combined with its absurd priority, and it kills off the sides at high % (usually 105% or higher, depending on how far out you go).

I didn't use it enough before but now that I have I think it's HONESTLY crucial and not just a supplementary move. In MUs where Doc fares okay without it I am fine with suggesting Down-B 2 hence my base suggestion of adding a set with Down-B 1 as another top priority one alongside what's already there. If by chance you don't need Nado (like vs. Mario or something, or Luigi, etc.) then you can afford to take Down-B 2 and play extra risky with it.

 

[DunnoBro]

Default down b is amazing when landing, beating out certain problematic moves, and also fairly good for recovery. The best reason to not use it imo would be if you just HAD to have the ol' one two. Which really is amazing, though potentially only worth it in certain matchups. It makes your damage/kill potential through the roof. Combos from throws and dtilt, as well as bad DI from other moves and finishing combos.

Against a light edgeguarder like sheik, kirby, mk, etc it likely isn't worth it.

But in general downb2 seems overall inferior. Even for recovering since any type of disjoint will feel safe challenging that no hitbox every time.

I think each cape has a use.
Default for anti-projectile.
Wind for gimping and recovering.
Shocking for damage/option coverage.

Since doc's fair is pretty slow, and less range than this, shocking provides a nice quick and meaty hitbox to throw out in front of us. It also kills fairly well. It doesn't seem to have a stall in the air like the others, though. Better as a damaging move since it keeps aerial momentum downward, worse as a aid for recovering.

Both wind and default though, seem pretty matchup dependent. If gimping is a variable for either you or your opponent, then go wind. If projectiles the cape is good for are a variable, then do that.

Fast pills are a great anti-rushdown, and anti-edgeguard tool. They're essentially falco's brawl laser. But big pill is great for threatening landings and setting up for kills/combos since it puts out a great hitbox to combo off of while you have a little time to do other stuff. Seems like it'd be really good on battlefield or lylat, but poor on stages with lots of space and no platforms for added pressure.

Default just seems like general harassment but it doesn't really do that job as well as fast pills do.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Fast pills are a great anti-rushdown, and anti-edgeguard tool. They're essentially falco's brawl laser. But big pill is great for threatening landings and setting up for kills/combos since it puts out a great hitbox to combo off of while you have a little time to do other stuff. Seems like it'd be really good on battlefield or lylat, but poor on stages with lots of space and no platforms for added pressure.

Default just seems like general harassment but it doesn't really do that job as well as fast pills do.

Normal pills are better in certain MUs particularly against tall characters like Ganon who can easily get in close even with fast pill harassment thanks to Dropkick. The reason default works vs. Ganon is that his Down-B will never provide a reliable way around them. They bounce at just the right arc to intercept dropkick and they also bounce high enough to stop him from being able to clear them easy.

It's why I think Dr. Mario probably fights Ganon better than Mario does.

Also I am LOVING the appreciation for Down-B 1 because it is seriously a really ****ing good move. Its knockback and kill potential is insane (it kills offstage super quick, like, sub 100% EASY offstage if you make a recovery read) and it beats a lot of recovery options simply by hitbox length, attack duration, and priority.

 

[DunnoBro]

I don't see how short hopping the fast pills don't let them wall ganon out better than default, and less endlag lets you prepare to punish dropkick more too.

But I'm only working off picturing it, so I can't really claim much beyond not seeing it in theory. Will try to test it myself later.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't see how short hopping the fast pills don't let them wall ganon out better than default, and less endlag lets you prepare to punish dropkick more too.

But I'm only working off picturing it, so I can't really claim much beyond not seeing it in theory. Will try to test it myself later.

It's just the angle they go at that helps IMO. I think vs. Ganon at least it covers more options compared to fast pills in particular if you fullhop them. Again it's all opinion but I tend to prefer them because of how versatile they are if the character I'm fighting isn't mobile.

But yeah otherwise Fast Capsules are amazing. Combining that with Down-B 1 and it gets REALLY scary.

 

[DunnoBro]

Ganon also has the hitbox side b that trades with regular pills and leaves him without endlag so it just eats up regular pills while he moves forwards. Fast pills however come out too fast for him to do that.

They'd also probably use that one anyway since it sets up for edgeguards, dr mario's weakness.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Ganon also has the hitbox side b that trades with regular pills and leaves him without endlag so it just eats up regular pills while he moves forwards. Fast pills however come out too fast for him to do that.

They'd also probably use that one anyway since it sets up for edgeguards, dr mario's weakness.

Touche. I can definitely see the value in Fast Capsules in that MU. I completely forgot about the Dark Tickle (that's what I call Side-B 3.)

Also I'd like to point out based on testing in the Doc social thread we have confirmed that as an edgeguard Down-B 1 can kill Bowser at around 70% off-stage. With no rage.

What. The. ****. PUT THAT MOVE IN A SET IN THE MUST HAVES

 

[Macchiato]

@Swampasaur I think it's time to unsticky this. The projects done so I don't see this deserving of taking a sticky spot

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

So, I know boss was looking into using Dr. Mario with customs. Does anyone know what sets he likes to run?

 

[Splash Damage]

My preferred Doc set is a hyper-offensive variant of the 2332 custom set, being 2331. I opted for Dr.Tornade over soaring tornado for the offensive properties as well as the still existing ability to stall fall speeds with a hitbox. I plan on doing more testing for 2332, but as of now, 2331 is my preffered set.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

2311 is my go-to custom set for Dr. Mario. Fast projectile that can be spammed and interrupts, a reflector with a windbox (a straight upgrade of the default move), recovery that can hit on the way up and be reliable in getting you to the edge, and another move that's offensively good with no decrease in recovery movement.

 

[DunnoBro]

So, I know boss was looking into using Dr. Mario with customs. Does anyone know what sets he likes to run?

He said he'll actually stick to luigi, I guess when he said he'd use doc for customs he was operating under the assumption customs would remain a side event, since he didn't want to hurt his default luigi.

He seems to like the same sets stated here for the most part, though.

 

[Raijinken]

231X seems to work best for me. I tried dabbling in 3xxx, but just couldn't find reliable scenarios in which the gigavitamin was more useful than, say, a smash attack. And that's against my friends, not even against competitive players.

 

[kujibiki57]

How come you're all barely talking about soaring tornado? Haven't you guys noticed that it has a HUGE hitbox that lasts for a billion years and is very strong?
Seriously, Soaring tornado is an absurdly good edgeguarding tool. It lasts long enough that it's able to catch early airdodge and is huge enough that it'll hit opponents even after they cross you up.
Best set for me is by far 2322

 

[DunnoBro]

How come you're all barely talking about soaring tornado? Haven't you guys noticed that it has a HUGE hitbox that lasts for a billion years and is very strong?
Seriously, Soaring tornado is an absurdly good edgeguarding tool. It lasts long enough that it's able to catch early airdodge and is huge enough that it'll hit opponents even after they cross you up.
Best set for me is by far 2322

Ehh, isn't doc already good at punishing air dodges with ol one-two?

 

[Pyr]

Been using the following. It's lead to a lot of work being done for me. 2232

Fast Pills: They do next to no damage, but they cover a lot of space, and a lot of space quickly. That damage adds up quickly though. It's like an ariel, long ranged jab. They make so many matchups 100x easier for me.

The Ol' one-two: I like the ko power. Thanks to his Down B, recovery doesn't really suffer too much. Up B 1 might be better in some cases, but I like it in general.

Shocking cape: We got gimping covered in a lot of different ways. I can rep this with the wind cape on matchup. I prefer shocking as a general, "I don't know what they are going to play" sort of thing.

Rising Down-B: Remember Brawl Luigi's down b? This is that, with a VERY strong hitbox at the end. Like, seriously. If you recover low with it, there is no way anyone can safely gimp Doc. The hitbox with the power at the end covers his body+1/3 of his body around him. This hit KOs slightly earlier than the ol' One Two as well. You can combo into the final hit as well, and you can get easy reads into it for extremely easy kills. Compare the other 2, and this is just the best of both worlds: KO Power and Recovery height. It's safe on block, too, since it doesn't have as bad of recovery as the other 2 and, if it's blocked, mash B and you're now well out of reach.

I think Fast Pills + The Rising Down B are his 2 best customs in general, with Rising Down B being his best in slot.

 

[Kisatamura]

Been using the following. It's lead to a lot of work being done for me. 2232

Fast Pills: They do next to no damage, but they cover a lot of space, and a lot of space quickly. That damage adds up quickly though. It's like an ariel, long ranged jab. They make so many matchups 100x easier for me.

The Ol' one-two: I like the ko power. Thanks to his Down B, recovery doesn't really suffer too much. Up B 1 might be better in some cases, but I like it in general.

Shocking cape: We got gimping covered in a lot of different ways. I can rep this with the wind cape on matchup. I prefer shocking as a general, "I don't know what they are going to play" sort of thing.

Rising Down-B: Remember Brawl Luigi's down b? This is that, with a VERY strong hitbox at the end. Like, seriously. If you recover low with it, there is no way anyone can safely gimp Doc. The hitbox with the power at the end covers his body+1/3 of his body around him. This hit KOs slightly earlier than the ol' One Two as well. You can combo into the final hit as well, and you can get easy reads into it for extremely easy kills. Compare the other 2, and this is just the best of both worlds: KO Power and Recovery height. It's safe on block, too, since it doesn't have as bad of recovery as the other 2 and, if it's blocked, mash B and you're now well out of reach.

I think Fast Pills + The Rising Down B are his 2 best customs in general, with Rising Down B being his best in slot.

What combos into Soaring Tornado?

 

[Macchiato]

I think that 2332 is the best set.

Fast Pills are great for pressure and quick damage, they're good annoying options.

Breezy Cape is a no-brainer, its an amazing gimping option and could get him early kills.

Oi' One Two is a great oos option and can kill at ridiculously low percents. It can combo from dthrow. With soaring tornado, the low recovery isn't needed.

Soaring Tornado is really good recovery, it goes a bit higher than farores wind I think and the hitbox is strong. Its also good for edgeguarding and it duration helps it stop airdodges.

 

[Ridel]

I still need to unlock Soaring Tornado (I've gotten the Ol' One-Two like 7 times) but I have tried it and it's really fun and effective!
But my current set-up is 2311(2)

Fast Capsules: Really good at shutting down fast characters approaches, has some devious locking potential, and is overall just a fun move to use.
Breezy Sheet: I think enough has been said about this.
Super Jump Punch: I find it more worth while to have a good OOS option then a kill move. Doc already has plenty of kill moves and SJP can kill relatively easy in it's own right.
Doctor Tornado: Still a fantastic mix-up and recovery option, I will probably swap between this and Soaring Tornado depending on the character.

And lastly; why isn't this thread sticky'ed yet?

 

[UpsilonFox]

The only set I am particulary fond of is 1311.
Gust Sheet is a straight up upgrade of sideB.
I really like the zoning of neutralB 1.
Default upB for a decent oot/kill/punish move without sacrificing recovery like ol' One Two.
And I feel Doctor Tornado, while not as good at recovery as Soaring Tornado, is too versitile to give up most of the time.

Of course on sets using ol' One Two one would use Soaring Tornado, and Fast Pill is very useful in some match ups, I am just hoping 1311 makes it into the final release of this project.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets:
Dr. Mario:

2, 2/3, 1/3, 1/2 niche 1XXX

2211, 2212, 2231, 2232, 2311, 2312, 2331, 2332
niche: 1311, 1312

The biggest thing I'm unsure about is if you guys want more and/or different default pill sets. Of course, any other concerns or adjustments are welcome as well.

 

[M@v]

I feel 1311 is the one you definitely need. 2311 is a good subsitiute as well. I only really use 1311 personally, as I like his defaults, and gust cape is a straight upgrade over normal cape.

 

[Juker]

My vote is for 2322. Doctor Mario already has so many kill moves that I like to use his Super Jump for extra recovery. Fast Capsules are great, and Breezy sheet seems better than regular and is good for gimping. His Soaring Tornado is a nice recovery option and has serious knock back. This set up changes the Doc's recovery from awful to pretty decent and with the speed of the Fast Pill gives him a very good defensive game added to his already good offensive game.

 

[Reaper Talk]

I haven't seen that much use for any 3XXX sets
I agree with Juker with 2322 and I would use this set to replace 2211