Official "Who is going to return?" topic

[yggrasil]

Do you think Jigglypuff will return? I mean, if the're really going for "originality" this time, they may consider removing it because of his/her marginal similarity with Kirby.

All they have in commons is their double jumps and appearence, if she gets the boot because of that, Zelda and Bowser need to go to because they're just as similar too Peach and Yoshi.

 

[Devastlian]

I don't think sales would plummet that much. There're plenty of people that like more than one character and plenty of people that'll buy it because of what it is and because Mario and Link and Pikachu are in it and a bunch of other stuff. All of the returning characters are changing so they might like someone else better anyway. You can't just assume that everyone in the world is that shallow.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I prefer playing Pichu over Pikachu in Melee because of his style. However, if they end up taking Pichu out, I just hope Mewtwo is still in. If neither are in, then I'll just move on with using Samus. I use those characters because I liked them.

If they return, they will probably be changed anyways and I'll have to get used to the new way of playing. I don't think characters should be taken out based on how they played or whether they were clones. All the bad characters could easily improve in Brawl, and some of the very powerful ones might be weakened a bit to be balanced. No matter what happens, I'm pretty sure I will be pleased with whatever Sakurai decides.

 

[Johnknight1]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jiggly WILL return. no question.

hah, thats funny. so youre saying because WW had different items, that it is enough to make an entirely new character. yes, they probably could make a unique moveset for items in that game alone. i dont know how many zelda games you have played, but every single one has a few items that none of the others have (or at least that none before it have had...). so i dont know if you realize, but they could make a unique link moveset for every game he has appeared in (an up+b of using the roc's cape would be so sweet), but they arent going to do that, because why waste 5-10 spots on the same character? it happened in melee simply because both adult and child link were in the same game that they got the movesets from, if they had not both been in ocarina of time then i dont think they would have had both in melee. also they will not only use moves that link had in that specific game if they included him, they already showed that with melee. adult link couldnt use the boomerang, yet he had one in melee. young link couldnt use fire arrows (let alone arrows at all!) or the hookshot.

anyway, now that we've seen that link has undergone the 'upgrade' to the TP look, i believe the only characters from the zelda universe will be from TP. i could be wrong, though, i can see them still including shiek...also, someone has said that link 'swings his sword mindlessly'...go play TP. he has many unique attacks (how many did marth have in his FE games?), and i believe if they wanted to they could easily give link an entire moveset on simply sword attacks. i thought this was no longer an issue, but just because a character doesnt have alot of attacks from their originating game (or any at all, ex. captain falcon), they can still make a good moveset for that character.

now, im not completely hating the idea of WW link, id just rather they add another completely unique character to brawl. if they have the time and for some reason run out of good ideas, then by all means, throw him in with his deku leaf. (this is assuming young link is cut. if for some reason young link stays and isnt WW link, then no way. ever. 2 links in one game is enough.)

TWW Link moveset is so much diffrent, it's so diffrent, if he was older with the same moves, it would be as big of diffrence as going from Marth to Link! Seriously, his attacks involve more spinning, acrobatics, and higher jumping. He could be a easy to create unique character. I still am really sure he's in it, just because his uniqueness.

petre, I suggest, if you haven't already, play The Wind Waker, and then Twilight Princess (idc if Wii or GC version, though GC version just to show more diffrences). You will see the diffrence in their attack styles and fighting. It would be an easy attack pattern to make, and is the most unique out of any of the Links. As for wasting a spot, again if it's original, isn't stupid or weak, why not? You can doubt he'll get in, but he could be a pure original easily.

Other than this character, I think all the LOZ characters probably will be from TP, or have the TP upgrade at least. The cel-shaded look could fit easily (is it me, or does Kirby kinda almost look cel-shaded=?), especially with the current look of the game. Plus, having a Link from all 13 LOZ games would be stupid. OOT has most of the moves as all 2D LOZ titles, just in a 3D style. OOT Link also shares the same moves wih MM Link and TP Link. Therefore, The Wind Waker Link shares only 3 or 4 moves at most (not item related) with TP Link.

Again all original 12 from SSB 64 will return. 0-4 characters (most likely 2 or 3) that are only in SSBM will be cut. If Jigglypuff gets cut, there goes most peoples chance of beating event match 51. lol, kirby and jigglypuff only have jump in common, removing Jigglypuff would be stupid (I'm really starting to like Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Pickachu, and G&W).

I previously felt the same way Sliraobe God felt, but have come to realize that Doc is half impossible to come up a original moveset for, lots of people hate Pichu, and many Fire Emblem fans prefer many Fire Emblem characters over Roy. Think about it Doc is only in a tetris style game, Pichu is a weaker Pickachu (though it probably could get a new moveset easily, it was so hated, if it appeared as a clone again noone would buy SSBB, lol), and Roy has Fire Emblem competition.

Roy, despite having Fire Emblem competition stil has a shot because he is well loved by many non-Fire Emblem fans, and some Fire Emblem fans. Plus considering his and Marth's hit popularity, his chances of returning rises from that. All in all, I still think 45% chance of returning is accurate for the moment if any SSB characters are cut. I really have no idea how he'll end up: In the garbage or game of the year? That is for the SSBB team to deciede!

Sales won't plummet, unless certain characters are removed. If Mario, Luigi, DK (don't ditch my ape, he awsome!), Link, Pickachu, Kirby, Fox, Falco, etc. were removed, they could. Pichu only brings less of a younger audience, Doc fans generally don't mind him being cut and have his advantages moved to Mario. It really depends on which character and the timing. I hope that Sakurai at least tells whos removed and who stays, which I'm pretty sureh he confirmed he would say that.

 

[yggrasil]

I understand some of the characters you mentioned, but I seriously doubt sales would plummet if Falco was removed.

 

[Wrath`]

I understand some of the characters you mentioned, but I seriously doubt sales would plummet if Falco was removed.

WRONG

Sales would be lower,but then thoese peeps that didnt buy cause of falco not being in it would relize they are left out and evenntualy buy it

 

[petre]

well most sales come from initial release; people wont know who is and isnt in the game at first, so i dont think what characters are included will affect the sales so much.

and johnknight, have you really looked at the attacks in WW and TP? they are very very similar (aside from a couple items)...WW link can roll around his enemies and slice their backs, so can TP link. WW link can jump on an enemy and strike their head, TP link jumps over them completely and strikes their head. in fact, the only sword move WW link has that TP doesnt is the hurricane spin. and im pretty sure that was just added for the comical effect, more than a serious swordfight attack. just one of those super attacks to end the battle quickly. i believe TP link was more acrobatic and such than WW link, he just appears more because of 1)his size, and 2)many of his abilities are affected by the wind, making a more natural physics feel. but in no way is WW link so different (other than graphical style) that he deserves his own character spot. sorry, but other links have way more things that set them apart. however, even then they all have the same core elements and a majority of their attacks/items are the same. (my #1 candidate for an alternate link? the oracle of ages/seasons link!)

there is still a chance they include WW link, however, i think to attract younger audiences.

 

[buddy9246]

Who wouldn't buy brawl if falco wasn't in it? big deal, if marth wasn't in it ken would still buy it, if fox wasn't in it (which he is! ) i would still buy it. buy it anyways or give it to me! your choice!

 

[ºOblivionº]

This has to be one of the most longest living threads.

 

[Johnknight1]

well most sales come from initial release; people wont know who is and isnt in the game at first, so i dont think what characters are included will affect the sales so much.

and johnknight, have you really looked at the attacks in WW and TP? they are very very similar (aside from a couple items)...WW link can roll around his enemies and slice their backs, so can TP link. WW link can jump on an enemy and strike their head, TP link jumps over them completely and strikes their head. in fact, the only sword move WW link has that TP doesnt is the hurricane spin. and im pretty sure that was just added for the comical effect, more than a serious swordfight attack. just one of those super attacks to end the battle quickly. i believe TP link was more acrobatic and such than WW link, he just appears more because of 1)his size, and 2)many of his abilities are affected by the wind, making a more natural physics feel. but in no way is WW link so different (other than graphical style) that he deserves his own character spot. sorry, but other links have way more things that set them apart. however, even then they all have the same core elements and a majority of their attacks/items are the same. (my #1 candidate for an alternate link? the oracle of ages/seasons link!)

there is still a chance they include WW link, however, i think to attract younger audiences.

Lol, his sword swiping and combos are totally diffrent. I played Twilight Princess on the GC, then The Wind Waker on the GC, and I notice a ton of attack pattern, and overall attack diffrences. He also jumps a lot higher, and doing the helm splitter attack he jumps way higher than TP Link. Plus considering a sequal in Phantom Hourglass. I also doubt there will be any 2D Links, so that leaves 4.

Plus considering OOT adult Link was changed to TP Link, MM Link is the same character, just younger, that leaves TWW Link. Seriously, play the GC edition of TP, then play TWW. Totally diffrence attack pattern, and attacks in general. TWW Link is far more acrobatic, too which gives him even more of an advantage. To be honest if they do both characters right, I dunno which one I would play more, lol.

As for sales Falco would only drop them at 3% most, if even that. Mario on the other hand (even though he's confirmed) could do heavy damage. I'm gonna buy it no matter which characters are in it, unless the game looks messed up, or it turns out a true failure (I 100% doubt it will be a failure). Pickachu removed could do quiet a lot of damage, same with DK and Link. On that list I made, Falco would have the least effect on sales.

Also put into consideration if Falco was removed, many Star Fox fans (including myself), would be angered, but still buy the game. Nintendo would also lose reliability towards Star Fox fans, or any series fans if they remove certain characters (Luigi, Bowser, DK, Falcon, Zelda, Mario, Link, Kirby, etc.).

Removing most of the characters would be a simple mistake and I think the SSBB team realizes that. So in other words, 20 or more characters are basically confirmed to return. If most characters were removed, most everyone would buy SSBB, it is just that their trust in Nintendo would fall. That could scar Nintendo's reliability.

 

[weasleman333]

johnknight1 is right, the attack patterns are different. Falco's release would anger people but i think it would change slightly if not none.

 

[FSLMJM]

I seriously doubt that Jigglypuff or Falco is leaving. The ones likely leaving are Pichu, Young Link and Dr. Mario, in my opinion. What they have in common is that they are the same person/thing but as a different person/thing. Pichu is a baby Pikachu. Young Link is a younger version of Link. Dr. Mario is Mario in a doctor's uniform. Again, just my opinions.

 

[Johnknight1]

I seriously doubt that Jigglypuff or Falco is leaving. The ones likely leaving are Pichu, Young Link and Dr. Mario, in my opinion. What they have in common is that they are the same person/thing but as a different person/thing. Pichu is a baby Pikachu. Young Link is a younger version of Link. Dr. Mario is Mario in a doctor's uniform. Again, just my opinions.

I still think only 3D LOZ games' Links have a shot. That leaves 3: TP (in), TWW, and MM. Needless to say, OOT Link was changed to TP Link, and TP Link is in, that leaves MM and TWW Link in the hunt. Despite this, MM Link's attacks are almost the same as TP & OOT Link's so he's out.

TWW Link, however, has an unheard of attack pattern, and is a completely diffrent Link, with a sequal coming out in Phantom Hourglass. His attacks are purely his own, and is a big diffrence. In case you don't know (not saying you don't) there are at least 7 or so Links throughout of the 13 LOZ games.

Of course, 9 of those 13 games are 2D. Im not saying anything is wrong with them or 2D games, and they're all good games., and I doubt any of those Links will make a appearance. Besides that, TWW Link easily could have his own moveset, easier than a clone moveset, but as a pure original. Hell, I probably like that Link more than the TP Link, even if TP is my fav game, just because he is unlike any Link easily! And he's funny!

 

[Devastlian]

The TP and OoT Links fight way different. The TP Link is a lot more stylized and swings his sword more logically IE Right-Left-Right-Strong Right instead of Right-Right-Left (yeah...I don't know how to describe that). TP Link carried over bump up to four hits per combo and could do the reaction moves from TWW whenever he wanted. TWW did have the specialized combos when you tilted the control stick while locked on that incorpated rolls and jumps and stuff.

On the topic of a new Young Link character...how 'bout a Mr. Game and Watch style one that pulls out items from across the series for his moves. That could be cool.

 

[Stryks]

Anyone who thinks sales will go down if falco is not in is obviously way ********, the game will sell, he'll slippy can be in and the game will STILL seel and, probably like melee, will be wiss top selling game...

 

[Bowserlick]

The range is probably going to be 32 to 37 characters with 35 characters as the target goal for the developing team. And this means to pave the way for new fighters there are going to have to be many cuts.

It is harder to accept cuts in Smash compared to other fighting games, because each fighter is a mascot with a predetermined history usually years in the making. But in order to keep the game fresh with fun play and new exciting moves, new characters will have to boot out old ones.

These list below is comprised of the fighters I think will stay. That doesn’t mean I necessarily want the other ones out of the game.

The Returnees

1. Mario: Confirmed in! Mario is Nintendo’s mascot. He is the Jack of All Trades
who has a multitude of tools in his arsenal. Fireball Projectiles, a Reflecting Cape, Multiple ways of Recovering, and even a Meteor Smash. His moves are not the best in each designated category, but they are diverse enough to allow him to capitalize on his enemy’s weakness.

In Brawl it seems like he will pack more of a punch and be able to KO with his aerial fist as well as send screaming characters plummeting into a chasm.

2. Peach: Sakurai mentioned briefly the lack of female characters. So it is doubtful that he will remove the most famous of Nintendo ladies from the roster.

Peach’s move set is all over the place. And she was made too powerful. How can they fix this? My idea is replacing her B move (pulling out a helpless Toad to counter any moves aimed at her) with the ability to gain a random emotion from her latest game. Happy, Sad, Calm, and Enraged. Maybe this way she can only float when she is happy, runs faster when she is sad, pulls better Turnips when she is Calm, and gains her ridiculous Down Smash when she is angry.

3. Bowser: Just as you cannot take Nintendo’s mascot out of an All Star Nintendo game, you cannot remove Nintendo’s villain even despite his performance in Melee.

Bowser should be designed as a tank. He should not flinch during small attacks and be able to reduce stun time from hits against him. His Forward Smash and Down B should go through shields. With even a few changes, Bowser can have the huge and fearsome presence he deserves while maintaining his lumbering walk and laggy jumps.

4. DK: DK is the mobile heavyweight. He trades ridiculous power for some speed, jump height, and the awesome ability to store a smash move and release it whenever he desires (the Windup Punch). Not to mention that he can carry his enemies around.

He doesn’t need much improvement. DK should maintain his reputation as the mobile heavyweight with some tweaking to make him a little more competitive. An idea (not really one that improves him, but a fun idea nonetheless) is having the hairy ape reach out on both sides of his brutish body while grabbing so there is a chance he can grab two opponents at once, smash them together over his head, and then toss them away.

5. Captain Falcon: Smash is great because a character can come from any genre. Captain Falcon represents the racing world with a loud and awesome move set. He will stay.

His knee can lose some power, but otherwise Captain Falcon should become louder and more flamboyant in the execution of his moves.

6. Link: Confirmed to Return. Link is right under Mario in popularity as Nintendo’s mascot. He is not going anywhere.

Link really just needs slightly less lag on some moves and more range to justify lag length on other sword swiping moves. And judging by the video Link does get more range and less lag time.

7. Zelda: Zelda is in Peach’s league as a famous Nintendo princess.

I am convinced that Sheik will not return, mainly because of Zamus’s presence. Therefore, I think Zelda will be mostly remade with a different fighting style then the previous game. Perhaps reflecting Twilight Princess, at least in design.

8. Gannondorf: Gannondorf got gypped out of a unique move set. So this time around I expect him to have moves from his own games and perhaps a kick *** sword.

I expect Gannondorf to play similar to his Melee version just with different visuals pertaining toward his moves. I think he will be a slow fighter with laughable jumping skills but immense power and good range.

9. Yoshi: With a stage already seen in a trailer and with his popularity, I am sure Yoshi is a shoe in.

Yoshi has a very entertaining play style. He just needs some tweaks, such as having useful throws. But I hope if any new mechanics are introduced (such as crawling) Yoshi will get a weird take on the technique (such as a bizarre double jump and an odd way of shielding).

10. Kirby: Confirmed in! There has been a rumor that Jiggs was not originally going to be in Melee. I am not quite sure if this is true, but I do not think she will be in the next game. I suspect that there will only be two puffs and those will be Kirby and Metaknight.

I also think that Kirby will be the stronger of the puffs while Metaknight will take Jiggs aerial superiority. (In the trailer Metaknight can glide at a descending angle, perhaps a new take on Jigg’s Pound). So I expect Kirby to be more like he was in the Original Smash.

11. Pikachu: Confirmed to Return. Pikachu is the forefront figure of Pokemon, a very successful franchise. There was no way he was getting the boot.

Pikachu will probably adapt a play style in between his Original version and the one in Melee. I expect him to have a hit and run style in the air and a powerful array of Smashes on the ground.

12. Mewtwo: He is almost as popular as Pikachu and with a very successful franchise (Like Mario and Link) it is a shame to have the mascot, but not the villain.

Mewtwo was designed to be evasive. And I think this is the way to go, but his stats were below average in many categories and half his special attacks (which I think should be his bread and butter) were weak. I see Mewtwo as a tricky character who uses his psychic powers to slowly weaken his opponent (not necessarily by raising his percentage) until he can out power and out maneuver his enemy.

Example: Disable, instead of stunning the opponent, it should randomly turn off an A move when it connects. This should last until the enemy loses a stock or Mewtwo uses disable again. So Mewtwo’s strategy could be evading the enemy until he finally disables a useful move. Then he can press the attack.

13. Fox: Confirmed in! The Starfox franchise is gaining popularity once more and Fox is such a popular Smash contender.

The problem with Fox is that he has too many advantages. He acts like a heavy character (at least vertically), has many recovery opportunities, has an offensive and defensive reflector, has quick powerful Smashes, combo starting throws, agility, and speed. The designers need to pick two categories they want to excel Fox in and ease him into his niche with appropriate moves. Therefore, they do not have to nerf his reflector if other advantages are either toned down or removed.

14. Marth: I never liked Roy and Marth. Their moves seem boring. But taking Marth away would be taking away a very unique and elegant move set. And the down B and Toward B moves were very clever.

Marth also represents a strategy game and the more genres of Nintendo’s great history that are represented the better. Marth can afford to lose some of his range and some power from his sword. It is sad that Marth’s fast, long ranged Smash can have more KO power then Bowser’s slow, laggy, short ranged Smash.

15. Ness/ Lucas?: From Sakurai’s hints that Lucas was intended to replace Ness, I am not sure that Ness will actually return. But if he doesn’t, I strongly suspect Lucas will be nothing more then a skin and name change, with maybe a couple different moves.

Lucas and Ness do not seem different enough to warrant separate characters. But either way Earthbound will have one of its main characters as a representative.

16. Samus: Confirmed on Sakurai’s website to return.

It seems that Samus might have a morph ability in Zamus. Sakurai’s statement is vague enough where Zamus could be a morph or that Zamus could be a different character on the select screen. Regardless, Samus needs very little tweaking in my opinion.

Yes I do think a lot of characters will be cut. But then again Sakurai said this time around he is going for originality (no clones), balance, and even suggested that Luigi may not return. There is also going to be a robust adventure mode and it seems like very detailed stages.

Even with the generous time and resources Sakurai has been given, I cannot see the roster exceeding 37. But lets say Sakurai only keeps 16 characters. 5 new ones are confirmed. The total is now up to 21. Let us say 2 guest third party characters will be added. 23. If 35 is our target number we can only add 13 characters. And this is with shameless cutting of characters

 

[petre]

if they had 13 open slots (of characters we dont know currently), and luigi wasnt in, i wouldnt know what to think of nintendo...

i believe that there will be...about 20 characters returning from melee. the only clone i am positive sure will be returning is ganon, being given a new moveset. some of the others might return (falco, young link), but again, with new movesets.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Yes I do think a lot of characters will be cut. But then again Sakurai said this time around he is going for originality (no clones), balance, and even suggested that Luigi may not return. There is also going to be a robust adventure mode and it seems like very detailed stages.

Even with the generous time and resources Sakurai has been given, I cannot see the roster exceeding 37. But lets say Sakurai only keeps 16 characters. 5 new ones are confirmed. The total is now up to 21. Let us say 2 guest third party characters will be added. 23. If 35 is our target number we can only add 13 characters. And this is with shameless cutting of characters

The scary part is... you could be absolutely right. Also, that bit about replacing Ness and cutting Luigi hit me pretty deeply. I loved Ness in SSB64 and I'm just starting to figure out how to use him properly in SSBM (though to the best of my efforts and knowledge he still sucks) and replacing him with that other guy would just hurt more. (Pathetically, I have built a bond with the whole SSBM cast.) And though I never really liked Luigi, he was on the right path to becoming the poster child for fixing a clone: taking a clone, giving him a fairly individual moveset, and putting him in his own shoes, basically taking him out from under the ugly "clone" banner tagged to his name. I could live with Young Link, Pichu, and Doctor Mario leaving, but the body count should (*cough*-pleasenintendoimbeggingyou-*cough*) end there.

 

[KokiriEmblem]

I agree with petre, Ganon needs more moves and most
clones should be cut. Some of Falco's qualities might live
on in Fox.

 

[SSoH]

Ness owns! Any little kid with a baseball bat and Psi owns, bu he's gotta use his yo-yo a lot less! Plus PK Fire has to be more like in SSB 64! SSBB-Ness=me mad as hell! Sakurai doing that=me going crazy! All the original 12 are returing, period! Ness is no acception.

I agree. Ness is a very unique part of smash. When I first unlocked him in the original smash, i was like "Wtf? Who's this?" But he grows on you.

Frankly, I hope NO character gets cut, but if so, what comes first? The clones, the "unpopular" characters, or the ones that "suck?" I've read these forums a bit, and I must say i find it funny when some people say characters should be cut just because they "suck" I.E GaW, IC's, and Ness to name a few.

 

[Johnknight1]

No Luigi? WTF

I agree with petre, Ganon needs more moves and most
clones should be cut. Some of Falco's qualities might live
on in Fox.

Why drop clones when you can change them to be originals? Most clones would be easy, though Doc, maybe Roy, and Pichu might be difficult.

Ganondorf needs his sword, period. That fixes him. YLink needs to be TWW Link, which is unlike any Link. Falco needs original moves, with few similar attacks with fox. Doc, I dunno. Pichu should be looked at, and consider using original moves it can use in the Pokemon games. Luigi should have a little bit more moves Mario doesn't have. Roy, well I dunno Rire Emblem, but he should be able to have his own moveset easily.

SSoh is right, Ness does grow on you, and I still I am 99.5% sure that all original 12characters will stay. Bowserlick, removing 8 characters would be a mistake, wereas 4 Sakurai has to be cautious, but I believe it's probably either 2 or 3 characters cut, if Sakurai follows through with cutting characters (most likely). Doc and Pichu=little hope, Shiek has some chance, Roy has a bit below half chance.

SSoh is also right that no character should be cut. I mean c'mon, so many people have said remove all clones excpet Falco, and sometimes Ganondorf! Why not change all of them to be pure originals? That could make a lot more people happy! Ice Climbers, G&W, and Ness? Removing them is stupid, period no question.

O and Bowserlick, 40+ is confirmed, but I expect 45+ easily. It's coming out in as early as half a year so why not? Cutting 8 isn't smart, and dumping some characters is plain stupid (*cough* Falco, Ganondorf, YLink, Jigglypuff, Ness, and wtf? Luigi? Not smash without Luigi!). EX: my main man YLink, instead of changing him to TWW Link...well could seriously damage my respect towards Nintendo, Sakurai, and Miyamoto will heavily decrease, which is why I think he's in.

No Jigglypuff, Luigi, G&W, Ness being replaced, No YLink, and wat no Falco? Man that wouldn't be smash Bowserlick. I'm sorry, (actually I'm not, I'm happy) but all those above are msot likely returning, the only characters in danger are Doc, Pichu, Shiek, Roy, and IC. The Wind Waker Link=awsome replacement for current YLink (yae The Wind Waker Link! )

Luigi gone=not many people happy with that. He's in period, no question, don't doubt it! Otherwise Nintendo will have fanbase issues, same goes for the removal of DK, Ganondorf, Bowser, and Zelda. Even removing Capt. Falcon, Falco, and Ness, and YLink will present some issues. I honestly want all to return, prue and original.

With me pretty sure there is 45+ slots, MK, Pit, Zamus, and Snake, and Wario in the mix, that gives us at least 14 or 15 extra slots. With 2 or 3 cut, that gives us at least 16-18 more slots. So an emptyness in slots in not needed. 40+ confirmed, that's enough room to keep everyone. Still, nop Luigi? Luigi=more important than Bowser and Peach, and basically everyone!

 

[W4veMantis]

Yo!

I gotta agree with Johnknight1. Luigi is in for sure. Most of the time, when people think of Mario, they usually think of Luigi next. Luigi is more important than bowser or peach for sure. I personally think that all the characters that were in SSB64 and SSBM should be in SSBB as well. These characters have history as being smash bros originals so they deserve a spot no matter how much some of the characters "suck".

 

[SSoH]

I wish they could just keep everyone in and revamp the ones that are clones and the characters that are deemed "underpowered and overpowered." It would save a lot of argueing, and for some people, worrying that their mains and favorite characters may be cut.

edit #2: Nevermind, i figured out what the problem was, now i just need to fix it some more <.<

 

[Red Exodus]

There's no way Luigi is important than Bowser, there wouldn't be much Mario if there was no Bowser. Sure DK used to be 'Bowser' but now he's been replaced. Bowser is the mastermind that is behind the adventures in Mario games so taking him out wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Bowserlick]

Responses in red.

Why drop clones when you can change them to be originals?

Because some clones would not get in over more important characters if there were no time constraints in melee. Metaknight and Wario would surely get in over Dr. Mario and Pichu. Metaknight and Wario are pretty big and important. Dr. Mario not so much. Remember the programmers are adding new techniques (crawling), designing characters from scratch, adding detailed stages, adding a more robust adventure mode, and trying to make it online capatible. There is no time for fifty characters or maybe not even forty.

SSoh is right, Ness does grow on you, and I still I am 99.5% sure that all original 12characters will stay. Bowserlick, removing 8 characters would be a mistake, wereas 4 Sakurai has to be cautious, but I believe it's probably either 2 or 3 characters cut, if Sakurai follows through with cutting characters (most likely). Doc and Pichu=little hope, Shiek has some chance, Roy has a bit below half chance.

Removing characters mean more different characters can have their chance at fighting in Brawl. I think Ness will be replaced with another EarthBound character. In a way he will be replaced, but the new representative will have similar moves.

SSoh is also right that no character should be cut. I mean c'mon, so many people have said remove all clones excpet Falco, and sometimes Ganondorf! Why not change all of them to be pure originals? That could make a lot more people happy! Ice Climbers, G&W, and Ness? Removing them is stupid, period no question.

Say there is only room for 35 characters because of time restraints. If we keep all the clones (but change their moves) we will have the returning 26 plus the extra 5 shown in the trailers. Now we have room for only 4 new characters.

O and Bowserlick, 40+ is confirmed, but I expect 45+ easily. It's coming out in as early as half a year so why not? Cutting 8 isn't smart, and dumping some characters is plain stupid (*cough* Falco, Ganondorf, YLink, Jigglypuff, Ness, and wtf? Luigi? Not smash without Luigi!). EX: my main man YLink, instead of changing him to TWW Link...well could seriously damage my respect towards Nintendo, Sakurai, and Miyamoto will heavily decrease, which is why I think he's in.

Show me where 40+ is confirmed. I don't believe it. And by the way Sakurai even mentioned that Luigi might not return.

 

[Johnknight1]

Lol Bowserlick, we all know Luigi is returning. I never said Sakurai confirmed Luigi at all! Since when is there time restants, there is no release date set! Show me release date and I belive it will most likley 40+ is gonna happen. Also the Wii has that much memory and, since SSBB is a Wii exclusive title, that leaves more character room. Removing Luigi=Fanbase troubles, Nintendo would jepordize their history, and would lose tons of bussiness. Show me ther is only 35, lol! Has Sakurai stated there is only 35? Show me, and I'l show you (look up translation thread).

Even if there are time restrants, changing the few clones of the 26 won't take that long, and the SSBB team would still be large enough and smart enough to make at least 10-15 more characters. Redoing them would be fast and esay, and would onl take like 60% shorter time. And noone deserves a spot over Luigi! Luigi owns, maybe not in SSBM or SSB 64, but he owns! He owns in just about every other game he's in!

The game has been in development since 2005 (not sure which month), and SSBM only took 9 or 10 months=ya. Point proven, there probably is more than 40 characters easily, possibly even 45! That means at least 15 months the game been in development, and it's not coming out for most likely at least 6 months=point is truely proven. Plus I heard from some thread that Sakurai confirmed 40+=o ya!

 

[Pustulio]

It's all gonna' be part of the marketing scheme so expect the low tier clones and bottom tier characters to be the ones that do end up leaving the game because not alot of people like them so much or really care about them being in the game.

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

They don't base it on Melee performance; they base it on popularity from their respective games. The characters are all going to change anyways. The characters that are too strong will be made somewhat weaker and vice versa. Besides, kicking out characters that are at the bottom of a tier list fans make for the last game would be a dumb marketing scheme.

Plus I heard from some thread that Sakurai confirmed 40+=o ya!

Can you provide a link to an official statement? That sounds more like a rumor than truth.

 

[Devastlian]

And by the way Sakurai even mentioned that Luigi might not return.

Is there a link to this? I'm not trying be all, like, "LINK OR DIDN'T HAPPEN"; just curious.

 

[Pustulio]

They're gonna' base the marketing and the characters on everything, the characters that aren't used alot nore respected in SSB will have a bit of a struggle getting in. You're just a little cross because Mewtwo is near the bottom of the tier list. Another thing they'll look for is the fact that some characters are more unique than others, Mewtwo's chances are raised by that and say someone like Pichu is not very unique and being bottom tier is going to have a very difficult time making a return. Also the impact they've had on the history of Nintendo.
Dropped characters to me are:
Pichu

Costumed:
Young Link
Dr. Mario

New movesets:
Ganondorf
Falco

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

I wouldn't be disappointed if Mewtwo were kicked out because I also like using Samus. Plus you are saying I'm crossed Mewtwo is at the bottom because of my name, which I created 5 years ago. That's not a reason I'm arguing against the "chances are based on Melee performance" idea.

The tier list isn't even by Nintendo, so they wouldn't take it seriously. Bowser is pretty low on the list, but I doubt Nintendo will be kicking him out of the game because he's Mario's main villain. Sheik, who performed well in Melee, would probably not return since she hasn't appeared in any LOZ game since Ocarina of Time.

Plus there are a lot more people who play the game casually and don't know about the tier list than there are actually paying attention to it. If a fun character who did not perform well was kicked out, I doubt the casual players would be buying the game unless they are okay with starting with a new character.

If the original characters from SSB changed in SSBM, they will probably change in Brawl. So their performance in Melee would not really affect Brawl.

 

[petre]

everyone, please stop saying 'sakurai said this!' and 'sakurai said that!' without quotes or sources, because most likely what you say he said isnt exacly what he said word for word, and could have a different meaning. sakurai has 'said' through his polls that any character on those polls has a chance to make it in. but we all know 90% of those characters arent going to make it. so dont base everything on 'well sakurai mentioned it might be a possibility i think!!!!', because honestly, he's mentioned that almost ANYTHING is a possibility.

luigi is going to stay, he's from the original 12, and he's no longer a clone. on top of that, who knows of a game that has mario and bowser, and DOESNT have luigi? im trying to think of one, if anyone knows one, let me know.

also, i agree with mewtwomaster, nintendo doesnt really care about the tier list...the majority of players are non-competitive, and have no idea a tier list exists for this game. theyre going to supply for the greater demand. its that simple.

one more thing, johnknight, the game DOES have time restraints, the game will be released in 2007, so if anything, it's december 31. there are probably deadlines the people have that they wont release to the public, but are still there for them to finish in time. also, you noted how long theyve been working on this game...if what they've shown is what they've done, then i see very little chance of 45+ characters. 9 done in 15 months, and ~6 months left? yeah, 45, right...but in reality, i think there are many that they have done and arent showing, so thats almost pointless. but i wanted to say that it takes longer to make a character for brawl than it does for melee, simply because of more detail/animations and such for each character. also, (im going to be a hypocrit here for a sec) sakurai said that they are redoing each character from the ground up. which means just because they were in melee doesnt mean its going to be pretty much no time taken to finish.

 

[Pustulio]

I wouldn't be disappointed if Mewtwo were kicked out because I also like using Samus. Plus you are saying I'm crossed Mewtwo is at the bottom because of my name, which I created 5 years ago. That's not a reason I'm arguing against the "chances are based on Melee performance" idea.

The tier list isn't even by Nintendo, so they wouldn't take it seriously. Bowser is pretty low on the list, but I doubt Nintendo will be kicking him out of the game because he's Mario's main villain. Sheik, who performed well in Melee, would probably not return since she hasn't appeared in any LOZ game since Ocarina of Time.

Plus there are a lot more people who play the game casually and don't know about the tier list than there are actually paying attention to it. If a fun character who did not perform well was kicked out, I doubt the casual players would be buying the game unless they are okay with starting with a new character.

If the original characters from SSB changed in SSBM, they will probably change in Brawl. So their performance in Melee would not really affect Brawl.

"You aren't getting the big picture Ms. Lane!" (Lex Luther quote)

Anyways you need to realize I'm not saying that that is the only thing that will affect who returns as I said their impact on the history of the Nintendo and popularity will be alot of what determines that, notice I said Mewtwo still has a pretty good chance because of his big role in Poke'mon (which I still don't like) makes him well known and beloved.

My point was that a lot of the bottom tier people aren't as popular and people may not care as much if they go away not necessarily that they will because of that. When it was stated that not everyone was returning instantly Pichu comes to mind as does Dr. Mario seeing as they are lower tier clones. Clones that are low tier are really what you need to look for more is what I'm trying to say I guess.

Oh and I wouldn't be surprised if market info people are reading this whole discussion right now trying to figure stuff out I mean like I said the clones are more likely to leave because of people liking more originality, high tier guys will stay no matter what though I'm sure.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

who knows of a game that has mario and bowser, and DOESNT have luigi? im trying to think of one, if anyone knows one, let me know.

Super Mario Sunshine... but to the best of my knowledge I think that's it.

 

[GreenMamba]

Super Mario 64 and Sunshine. I'd imagine Galaxy will have Bowser but no Luigi too.

 

[Bowserlick]

Luigi may be out for the following reasons.

1. Sakurai said something about Luigi and then added, "if he even returns."
2. Luigi's inclusion seems soley fan based. Meaning he doesn't offer that much uniqueness or originality to the game. On the flip side people will be disappointed if he is not in. (But the question is do you want Luigi occupying another character's spot?)

All in all, I think that if he does return he will either
A) Be extemely different with Mario with perhaps a vacuum based moveset
B) Or be more reminescent to Luigi in the N64 version (slapped into the game at the very end of the process)

 

[buddy9246]

i actually think Luigi should be in brawl but like you said, with a different moveset. His traction is ok for mindgames and such with wavedashing and DIing. the fireballs are his type of attack. i dont know but Luigi should return with a different moveset.

 

[Johnknight1]

They don't base it on Melee performance; they base it on popularity from their respective games. The characters are all going to change anyways. The characters that are too strong will be made somewhat weaker and vice versa. Besides, kicking out characters that are at the bottom of a tier list fans make for the last game would be a dumb marketing scheme.

Can you provide a link to an official statement? That sounds more like a rumor than truth.

I can't, it appears it was in some translation thread, but as an opinion, wereas I thought it was matter of fact (my bad). Apparently no official # of characters was released, and I still feel 40+ is going to happen, easily. Look at the Wii memory and disk memory, it is far better than GC memory and disk memory (plus it's a normal disk, lol!).

Though the # hasn't been stated, it is a Wii exclusive title, and the SSBB team is could do a DS version of some sort. All Sakurai says is something along the lines of there will be many more characters than SSBM.

MEWTWOMASTER is right, why kick what you can change. For those most part, that would be a dumb bussiness move, but it does have some exceptions (Doc and Pichu). Also the 2nd trailer did say "Prepare to Brawl 2007", but Nintendo has been known to delay release dates. Plus how long has SSBB been in development anyways?

Lol, let us take a good look at LOZ TP (set for April, comes out 7 months later) and we get the picture. Nintendo only likes releasing their big games when they feel it is complete.

Plus if the SSBB team wants to make the common tier list a lot moree diverse, they might want to get some really good players and have them master each character. Now that they are aware of SSBM's success, well you can expect the SSB team will try even harder this time around, as hard as they tried last time around was.

As for Luigi, I personally like him as much, if not more than Maro actually. The only Mario game Mario is in that he isn't, is Super Mario Sunshine. Sure, he also wasn't in Super Mario 64but he was in the DS remake. O and he wasn't in DK 1 or DK 2 (DK Jr.), though that was before he was made. Leaving out Luigi will probably disappoint a lot of people. He's up there with Bowser, DK, and Link as the 2nd most important Nintendo character.

Again, tiers don't matter, but originality does. Luigi was mid, to mid low on most tiers for SSBM, and we can expect Luigi to be even more "Luigified" for SSBB. I think Luigi should be one of Nintendo's top priorities as far as reuturning characters go, and hopefully he might get a few better moves. I doubt he'll have the vacuum moveset, but I do see 2-4 moves that could possilby changed for him.

O and Super Mario Gaaxy has aliens ('m pretty sure that doesn't include Bowser) abduct Peach, though there was a similar situation with Paper Mario 2, with Bowser still as a main character. (X-Nauts kidnap Peach, and take her to the moon) Then again, I wonder if they will have Luigi tell you weird stories of his "quests" again? Hopefully he isn't slapped last minute again, which he has a good record of that happening to him.

 

[petre]

i think luigi needs more moves of 'wtfness', like his green missile, and fsmash.
and i cant believe i forgot about super mario 64!!! but sunshine doesnt count, it was a horrible game. jk!

B) Or be more reminescent to Luigi in the N64 version (slapped into the game at the very end of the process)

if they do that he'd be a clone again. they already de-cloned him, why would they re-clone him????

oh, and i dont think luigi is ever 'slapped into the game'. i believe they are thinking from the very beginning, 'where can we throw in luigi for the best comical effect?'.

 

[NilliX]

Well I haven't read the other posts (you expect me to read 5 pages?) but here's all I have.

This could've been mixed up with rumor, but I heard that some developers were talking about a 40-deep roster of characters. Now that's quite a few, and unless they're getting a tonne of 3rd party support (eg: Snake), they can't afford to cut many existing characters.

I don't see why Dr Mario should stay. There are minimal differences in the two, and i'm sure that, despite the change in length of the cape/sheet, Bob Money would happily kick arse with the plumber version. I must agree with the trophy text that whether or not you use Mario or Dr Mario is largely based on personal preference. And that quote alone says to me "So we don't actually know why we put him here..."

Falco, i'm also not sure. Maybe if they were to change his move-set around a bit, so it was sort of a Mario/Luigi relationship between him and Fox. I think that'd be worth a second time around.

There's been talk of Roy leaving the ranks this time, and I can see why. Wheras you could change the moves for the Big Blue Bird easily, Roy can't really go anywhere. He could swing his sword a bit differently, but unless he's a much unwanted clone again, I can't see the reason in a return.

Ganondorf just taunted us with his sword-out victory pose, swinging it mightily above his head before slamming it into the ground, purple flames shooting out. He needs...
(I think i'll add some emphasis there..)
NEEDS that sword in his moves this time around. No more slower Captain Falcon with Angry Punch and Frown-Kick, please. We want that big lump of EVIL METAL to wave around.

That's all I have. Beware of my long posts.