Omegablackmage's Mr. Game and Watch Guide

[Needle of Juntah]

i just won another tournament

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah i did a fair amount of testing for the super armor, i couldn't find it. so until someone is able to show me a video where it happens, im not going to believe it exists. you guys are probably confusing it with priority and clanking

 

[Wave⁂]

You might want to add data for ROB's overcharged Laser, too.

 

[scrubadub]

OBM is right guys. I tried in practice mode at 1/4 speed and there is no super armor on the upsmash. I think a lot of ppl are just surprised by how quick it comes out. Defintely the quickest of all his smashes. It has a lot of priority against attacks coming from diagonally above and in front of GW. There are instances where I could get interrupted by an air attack, then throw it out again right after that and have it connect. Works great against n00b players.
Also I found another strange property while testing. Bair negates projectiles. I didn't test to see if it was only certain frames as it was hard to time since I didn't know when the CPU would throw out a projectile. But you could easily test this with two ppl. It might be the whole attack or only when the head of the turtle is out. But I am almost sure that it eat projectiles. That would make a great approach even better. Icing on the cake if you will... Maybe you can test this out and add it to your guide if you find it to be true.

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah the bair def does cancel out projectiles, i use it alot to approach toon link players.

i don't think the up smash is the fastest smash, im almost positive the dsmash is faster, its certainly an interesting move tho as far as priority is concerned.

 

[scrubadub]

if downsmash is faster then I really don't see a use for upsmash. Maybe it has less ending lag? More knockback?

 

[HammerWang]

ive seen this in a smashfest i went to today
and also seen on this vid

nair - fishbowl: it has a sweet spot at the top part of the bowl, the rim i guess u would say
that the first hit connects and the rest of the following hits pull in towards the bowl and connect to the last hit, the 1 with the knockback

maybe further testing to prove, in this vid at about 0:27 it starts
http://youtube.com/watch?v=u0VZ72Fy4_8

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah you can chain two or three fishbowls together using the sweetspotted hit to set up for the next one

 

[Jaxx]

Just in case I wanna press my luck, will air foward b cause me to lose my jump?? I did it before, but I don't remember if it made me lose my jump(Ironically I hit my friend playing PT with a 9....he up b'ed )

 

[TechnoMonster]

Usmash is good for doing a bunch of damage and knocking people up in the air which is a ****ty situation to be in against a good G+W.

 

[omegablackmage]

it would be pretty hard to tell if it takes your jump or not. i seriously doubt that it takes your double jump if you single jump and then hammer, i'll have to look into it.

 

[GDX]

if downsmash is faster then I really don't see a use for upsmash. Maybe it has less ending lag? More knockback?

usmash is amazing out of a dash for game and watch...try it out in training mode. you'll see the greatness

 

[scrubadub]

Ahhh... that's right. forgot that you can upsmash out of a dash in this game.

 

[CyberGlitch]

Thanks again for listening :-)

You may want to add in the cons section his slow roll and extremely slow throw (which is a pain to try to us on any matches other than one on one's because of his juggling animation beforehand, this also makes it easier for opponents to DI or tech the throw).

I've had a few instances of silly deaths because I couldn't stop using the chef attack to do an Up B. Is there any simple way to cancel the attack once in the air?

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah i actually know what your talking about, like sometimes i'll be using the pan and pressing a direction to maybe dash out of it, and it registers the directional hits as me wanting to shoot more projectiles out and the pan stays out... very weird.

im still not sure how good the upsmash is even with being able to do it out of dashes. it feels as though the move just has too much wind up time and you'd be hit/grabbed out of it before you could even get your hitbox out. maybe i'll have to just try it out more.

 

[GDX]

yeah i actually know what your talking about, like sometimes i'll be using the pan and pressing a direction to maybe dash out of it, and it registers the directional hits as me wanting to shoot more projectiles out and the pan stays out... very weird.

im still not sure how good the upsmash is even with being able to do it out of dashes. it feels as though the move just has too much wind up time and you'd be hit/grabbed out of it before you could even get your hitbox out. maybe i'll have to just try it out more.

with dashing and timing, you can cut most of that out. if you just usmash as soon as you dash, your windup is going on while you are basically sliding with the momentum, and the usmash actually goes off around the time you stop sliding

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah i can see what you mean, i'll have to play around with it later on, see how you can approach with it etc

 

[Needle of Juntah]

NOJ GW GUIDE :



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfEBKm0OD9k

 

[metroid1117]

A good guide; I'm really looking forward to figuring out how to use G&W, so it really helped.

 

[A.n.T.]

Impressive, I'm always amazed at how fast G&W can go from move to move.

 

[GDX]

Impressive, I'm always amazed at how fast G&W can go from move to move.

Yea. Im also still amazed at how fast he can spam all of his smashes. I havn't looked at NOJ's video guide yet (at work), but im hoping i learn something when i watch it when i get home. Cause if i dont *shakes fist*

yeah i can see what you mean, i'll have to play around with it later on, see how you can approach with it etc

well. you can either:

A.) Say that youve hit a person up, and they are about to land. Just get close to their landing spot (judged by their current DI and falling speed, etc.) and then dash into usmash as they are coming down, or better yet, time it to go off as soon as they are about to touch the ground.

B.) You both are on the ground. They do a dash attack towards you thats too ranged for you to shield grab (or you dont feel like shield grabbing for some odd reason, whatever). You can dash away, and immediately dash towards them and usmash. This tactic is also extremely useful for people who lag after aerials, like links and toon links dair, wolf's fair if not lag cancelled correctly, etc.

C.) Tech chasing them. After a down throw, if either the person immediately techs the grab, or does the roll getup, you can dash to whatever side they tech/roll to and do the usmash. For this particular use, it may take alittle while in the fight before you can effectively use it, because eventually you'll notice if your opponent always techs or rolls a certain direction in a certain situation or position on the stage, so you will know which way to dash as soon as you down throw. To speed the effectiveness of this move, early on, always follow a down throw with the dsmash (hammers). Its the only thing fast enough to hit them after a dthrow if they dont tech the grab. Soon enough, they will get ready to tech/roll as soon as you start your grab , in fear of the hammers after your grab is done. At that point, you can just dash the direction you think they will go and usmash so fast that they basically tech/roll into it because of the hammer fear that you've built. If you ever misguess and dash the wrong way, you can turn it into a nice string of attacks (im not calling it a combo because its not entirely unescapable, but very hard to if done correctly)

shorthop bair, and if it connects and sends them flying...

upB off of the ground into them and then immediately fair or dair (I prefer fair but dair can work too). Or if you wanted, SHuair after the turtle to throw them off even more, and THEN do the upB--->Fair/Dair. And for even more mindfoolery, if they air dodge your SHUair, they wont get the effect of being pushed up, so then you can SHFair or even do ANOTHER dashing usmash, and more hilarity ensues.

Hope that info helps some omega. Feel free to add it to your guide if you deem it good enough. Sorry about the length...didn't expect it to get that long when i started >.>

 

[omegablackmage]

lol its not really a video guide... its like him playing a gw ditto against cosmo ha ha, he just likes to advertise himself now that he has videos out : p

i tried working with the upsmash a little more yesterday and yes i can agree with most of your applications, however as the game's speed in general increases i think that people's approaches will be less open as you describe them to be. out of a tech chase though, yes its very good, probably kills earlier than the dsmash does.

 

[scrubadub]

I need some help incorporating Fair into my game. I've been watching the videos here and trying to imitate some of the strategies and moves against some CPU players for practice. I spam Bair and Nair a lot when jumping but can't seem to use Fair properly. The landing lag usually kills me or it just feels harder to connect. Are you even supposed to use Fair from a short hop? Am I timing the l-cancel wrong? or is it all about spacing? Are you going for the strong hit every time you use it (the first couple of frames) or not necessarily? Any input would be very helpful. I just need a description of situations where fair would be used.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Baconater]

I found what's kind of a big mistake in your guide. You see, G&W's neutral B is the frying pan. In melee it produced Bacon and only Bacon, the nectar of the Gods. In Brawl it produces Bacon, Chicken, and Steak. Because G&W produces only foods that men eat. Manly men. BACON

 

[omegablackmage]

new little tid bit i discovered just now. if you up b but cancel the animation with one of your attacks (essentially attack out of your up b) you can actually save your double jump to use after the up b. This of course only applies if you saved your double jump (upb'd off the ground or off of your single jump).

 

[Needle of Juntah]

wow nice omega ill have to try that next time i play. **** i really need to buy a **** wii

 

[omegablackmage]

added rob, snake, and dedede sections to the character matchup sections. i'll probably continue to add characters to this list in order of what looks to be a likely tier list.

 

[Razzo]

excellent guide!!

 

[Lag]

it could be just me or whatever. but would it hurt if you could add some more bold, italics, etc. to your guide? makes it easier to read and more attractive to the eye. just my opinion...don't have to incorporate it.

 

[Mike87]

Thanks for putting this good guide up.

 

[omegablackmage]

lag - yeah i don't see why not. i'll probably try and bold attack names and such maybe so you can see where things start and such, thanks for the hint.

edit: ok so i added some bolding and spaces so you can see where each moves description starts a little easier. I'm noticing that as i add more text to each move its starting to look like a wall of text, so i may break these up into bullets soon to talk about each part of the move.

I also added mr. escalators work on the downthrow, thanks again for that.

Im going to a large scale tournament this weekend, so hopefully i'll get more tourney worthy experience with some of the more obscure characters to fill out the character matchup section. Also hopefully i'll find more tricks and strats vs the ones i already have up.

 

[Lag]

woot awesome, it doesn't help only me, but the whole community! thanks for taking my suggestion into consideration. keep up the good work.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Thank you for actually using it, Omega :D

I made a topic on stage choices for G&W, and maybe we could work out a couple good counterpick stages to add to the guide.

Amazing job with the guide, and good luck with the tournament!

 

[Dekar289]

sup

i main g and w

something to note if it hasn't been already, when you're on a platform, if you drop down through it and immediately dair, you will actually pop back up onto the platform and d-air the platform

it's really fast, and idk i guess it'd be great for mindgames, and it's hit opponens because of how his dair's hitbox is er.. big =)

 

[omegablackmage]

dekar- i have that added in under the dair suggestion. i think i found it first sometime in february : )

escalator - velocity has a good couple of stage choices. i personally prefer to just counterpick neutral stages because i haven't developed any particularly crazy counterpicks yet.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Fair enough :]

I was thinking that, if we ever got the time, we could rework the guide to be a little easier to read/navigate. I found myself in the Jigglypuff section recently and saw their guide.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152074
I really like the format that they use for the guide.
But this would require use to make a whole new thread and it'd take a while to transfer the contents of this one.

I've also found a rather neat trick with one of G&W's moves. It's hardly anything special, but I'm waiting until I can get the dazzle to work. Works better with large characters, but I'm unsure how difficult it would be to pull off in a match. I've done it three times unintentionally against Dedede (2x) and Charizard (1x). Again, nothing special, and I'm not sure if I've been the first to discover it.

And what were Velocity's stage choices?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

erm, could you tell us what the trick is?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I may as well. In hindsight, I think you guys already know this o____o

During the match against DDD, on the Delphino sandbar, I made an aggressive approach towards him and quickly did a short hop. Unintentionally, that SH was immediately turned to a footstool jump on Dedede (who maybe jumped as I pressured him?) and pulled the keyspike into the ground followed by a Dtilt. It's not so much as useful as it is cool looking.

SH'd Footstool -> Keyspike -> Dtilt sums it up.

now I sorta feel stupid >_>
but
if its still semi decent
you could add it as a trick.

 

[bobjamesbob]

What ways can g&w approach besides RAR with turtle and shorthopped nair?

Also, what combos can form after a grab>down?
I usually just do grab>down>dtilt or grab>down>fmash/dmash

 

[Hawks go Caw]

G&W wears a hard hat during his dash attack which has priority over a lot of moves, and even some projectiles, so the dash attack is actually a decent approach.

In the weekly discussion, I don't remember who, but someone on the first page said he used the dash attack so to where it ends just inside G&W's range. If the opponent attacks, there's a really good chance that his attack will cancel out with G&W's helmet, allowing G&W to recover first -- since a.) it's towards the end of the dash attack and b.) the dash attack has relatively low lag -- and countering with a quick attack.

It sounds like a really good/effective plan. I haven't used it too much myself though.