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Mate you clearly don't play Bayonetta. She isn't viable whatsoever and everyone who plays her, along with Mac, Ryu/Ken, and BJ players have every right to be upset.
What we all thought would happen to Meta Knight after Brawl (they would nerf him so much he’s completely unviable, and they would never make him good again) seems like what they’ve done to Bayo. I think they saw the reactions - from Nintendo NY booing her during the everyone is here trailer, to the E3 crowd booing her while she was doing ladder combos, to basically the whole Sm4sh community despising her and her mains...
Little Mac's character attributes and general concept just don't jive with Ultimate at all, so yeah he's gonna need either a complete overhaul or some massive buffs.
To add onto this because I agree here: (1.0.4 was 2 months into Smash 4 btw)
There is no difference in block stats for those projectiles hence why I didn't list out all 50-something instances where there was no change. Except for the weird case of Samus and Mii Gunner's Charge shots getting better despite no buff being listed.
Phantom does less damage to shields. I didn't find any other difference.
Yeah, but by how much? The other characters have received numbers, too.
Thank you.
No because double Arsene doesn't give you access to a move that kills everyone at 60 off a teammates throw (Finishing Touch) nor makes who was already the 2nd best character in the game even better.
Did they? I don't see any numbers.
Not without finishing touch.
I said this the first patch about how they handle Ken's shoryu and Peach float aerials (which ignore the short hop multiplier despite not full hopping) should determine how much faith people should have in patches and the fact they haven't fixed either at this point says alot, yet people still thought the patch would water their crops or something. FWIW, the projectiles change was rather intelligent (especially when it came to parries) and they did fix other small things like DK's giant punch inconsistencies and swordies's dash grab so I still have a little faith that they can fix stuff.
shrooby
and
Gunla
Do you have the frame data for Kirby's upsmash before the change?Alright now we're set to document precise patch changes.Shaya
Bowser Jr
Corrin
- Jab 2 close hitbox delivers 13 frames of hitstun to Mario at 0% from 10. Far Hitbox is 11 frames of hitstun from 8.
Diddy Kong
- Usmash active hit frames now 13-17 from 13-15
- Side B: When you pin the ground, the waiting period before you can choose one of the four options is now 13 frames from 15.
- Up B is now invulnerable on frames 7-17 from 10-17
- Neutral B: Uncharged shot lasts an additional ten frames (now disappears on frame 72) and has improved range as a result.
King K Rool
- F-tilt active hit frames now 10-14 from 10-13
- U-Air now deals 7.0 damage from 6,0
- Dash Attack startup now 8/16/22 from 9/18/24.
- Total frames now 40 from 42.
Kirby
- Down B total frames now 62 from 67
- Counterattack now 42 frames from 47 (not counting freeze frames)
- U-Air total frames now 71 from 81
Mega Man
- Usmash early hit damage now extends to frame 14. Late hit damage begins on 15, allowing Kirby to get the strong hit on targets above him instead of just in front.
- Dthrow hits 1-9 damage now 1.0 from 0.8. Total damage now 12.0 from 10.2
- Up B ledge snap in front of Kirby now begins on frame 33 from 36.
- N-Air total frames now 54 from 62.
- Autocancels on frame 51 onward from 56. Still autocancels on frames 1-4.
Mewtwo
- Down B: Leaf Shield creation startup now 9 from 7. Total frames now 35 from 34.
- Leaf Shield throw total frames now 55 from 53
Mii Gunner
- Ledge dodge invulnerable on frames 1-27 from 1-23
- F-Tilt damage now 11.0/10.0/9.0 from 10.0/9.0/8.0
- U-tilt damage now 7.0/6.0/5.5/5.0/4.0 from 6.0/5.0/4.5/4.0/3,0
- U-Air damage now 12.0/11.0/10.0 from 11.0/10.0/9.0
- Jab 1 startup now 5 from 6. Total frames now 21 from 22.
- Unlisted Change: Neutral B shieldlag now 8-23 from 8-17
Ness
Olimar
- Dsmash charging hitbox hits every 6 frames instead of 4. This should help avoiding getting two framed by it if you have a hitbox recovery.
- Usmash charging hitbox also hits every 6 frames instead of 4.
Roy
- All of Olimar's Smash attacks now correctly have their damage increased with charge.
Ryu/Ken
- Ledge attack now deals 11 hitlag from 12. Shieldlag is unchanged at 8.
Samus/Dark Samus
- Ledge attack now deals 13 hitlag from 15. Shieldlag now 9 from 12
Sheik
- Unlisted Change: Neutral B shieldlag now 9-24 from 9-17
Snake
- Rapid Jab finisher total frames now 35 from 41.
- Neutral B: Reaching full charge with Needles takes 86 frames from 101.
Wario
- Usmash total frames now 54 from 50
- Neutral B: Animation for Eating a projectile takes 25 frames from 35. Animation for eating a bike unchanged.
The change is that Kirby's Usmash late hit used to occur on frame 14 and now it begins on 15. The early hit is on 12 (the move has 2 less startup compared to Smash 4). I can't say for certain that pre-patch had the strong hit on frame 13 now that you mention it I've just been working under the assumption that it did.
Yes we have been comparing in training mode. But I already checked if the issue was exclusive to electric attacks and it's not. At least not on shieldlag which I actually have the numbers to compare to. Olimar's yellow pikmin attacks are dealing the same shieldlag between patches as are any other strong electric attacks I could think of. If that source is accurate, then there could be a bug in training mode (or a bug that's always existed yet nobody noticed), but only on hitlag. And it doesn't answer what's different about Samus and Mii Gunner's charge shots on shield.
Alright thanks for confirming. I'd guess that it's a compensation for the fact that those two characters no longer have shield break setups that they had before with their charge shots. One other thing, I see no mention of the buff to Deep Breathing, which was in the Nintendo patch notes and I've been told is real by a few Wii FIt mains.
Not competitively but casually they might have been giving people trouble.
I play her on a regular basis, but not to the point I would consider her my main. I know she needs to be buffed, but that doesn't stop me from looking for ways to learn and do better as her. Also related, I mained Mewtwo in Melee and managed to become a breakout main in my region, never regretting sticking with him. And unlike now, there weren't any patches back then to fix him. So I know what I'm talking about, mate.
Fishing Rod behavior changed (seems to grab while airborne always, but loses grab box if it hits the ground now? [1] [2]) Flip Jump horizontal speed reduced (param changed 0.7 -> 0.5) tether behavior changed (don't know of any specific details beyond this interaction existing) Header's "start_air_speed_y" param increased 1.5 -> 1.6 params added that result in easier Nana desyncs Tree's map_collision changed Bowling ball coordinates changed in fsmash Coordinate change for grabbed fighters Minor animation change (head position) on shoryuken blast zone detection while opponent is inhaled moved up and in ([10,-10] -> [4,-4]) Final Smash params now match Simon's Unknown Final Smash param change
Posting videos on forums about weak and dysfunctional aspects of a character is all well and good, but the only way to really tell the devs if a character is too weak or strong is showing them by putting your theories into practice during actual games, be they tournaments or online play. Online complaints only get a passing glance by comparison.
How do you know?
Shieldstun is unchanged.
If the hook touches the floor, the reel will be nerfed, yes. Otherwise, it's still the same. It also always grabs while it's dangling now, which is a buff.
Are there any videos of stun jacket in Ultimate?
