Peach match-up thread (Her f-air is the size of Texas)

[Berserker.]

vs

Discuss

 

[SafCar]

Jump Cancelled Item Throw helps a lot in this matchup thanks to Peach's turnips. They can let us glide faster than her, especially with Speed active.

If Peach approaches in the air, shield and jab or, for the hard readers, go for a Vision or upwards Fsmash. The key is to get her turnips for ourselves and keep her from comboing us. We should approach this defensively to see her fighting style, then react accordingly:

• If she goes for aerial hovers and attacks often, stay on the defensive and poke holes when she lands something unsafe.
• If she juggles turnips everywhere, switch to the offensive and use MALLC and JCIT to dance around her, but be careful of Toad! It can come without warning and it will hurt!

When it comes to ledge play, be smart and avoid Peach's attacks. If she's recovering, don't immediately go for the Jump aerial attacks, bait her instead. If we're recovering, always be wary of her hover shenanigans and go high if you can; any chance for MALLC is a good one.

This MU is more reactionary imo.

 

[kenniky]

Peach is a pretty aerial fighter. Although her forward air is the size of Texas (which, uh... probably isn't true (unless it's Giant Smash)) our forward air is more ranged than her. If she tries to stall us out by floating, Jump and Air Slash should be able to get us to her fairly easily.

Low floats: make sure you're aware of these. fsmash, fair, bair, and ftilt should be able to outspace most things. Don't go for dtilt as it might go under her (?) If you're feeling ballsy go for Air Slash or Back Slash.

Peach is light enough to mess with our Jab Combo. Be wary especially if she's holding a stitch or a bomb, she could float to avoid the third swing and then throw it and end your stock super early.

Countering a stitchface does 39% damage, and countering a bomb does 41.6%. This is the same as or better than countering a Warlock Punch which is almost always an OHKO, so if you can see it happening (veggies are fairly slow but bombs are kinda fast) then I guess try for the counter? Countering fair also deals quite a bit of damage.

Be wary of Toad and don't get too aggressive. Not sure if bair outranges Toad... hmmm

Try to keep the pressure on her so she can't pluck veggies. Stitches and bombs are both super dangerous, Mr. Saturns make it unsafe to shield (maybe not in Shield mode though... hmmm) except in Shield mode (still don't shield too much though) and Beam Swords give Peach the range that Shulk doesn't want his opponents to have Peach no longer has beam swords yey. Even the smaller veggies could potentially gimp us.

If Peach comes in for a float bair we could try retreating Back Slash (run back then Back Slash in opposite direction), could catch them off guard. Peach is pretty light so this should KO at about 90%. Only do this for the kill because they definitely won't make the same mistake again.

Edgeguarding Peach is risky and not really worth it because she can float and she has the parasol which is a really good tool. HOWEVER if she accidentally faces the wrong way with the parasol we can go for a disrespect Back Slash :^)

Getting juggled by Peach is sucky because her uair is pretty good and she can float forever, plus having the parasol. Use Speed or Jump to get away fast, or MALLC air dodge.

I would say this is fairly even. +0, maybe +0.5 one way or another

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

Just an fyi, Peach can't pluck Beam Swords anymore, and in Shield a Mr. Saturn does not break your shield.

Also, don't try to challenge her float dairs if she's hitting your head. Shulk doesn't have any moves that hit above him that come out really fast, so just try to reset to neutral. If for some reason she float dairs directly in front of you (don't know why a Peach would ever do that tho...), jab should be able to punish it.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Jump Monado Art is the best against her I find so much utility using it against her.

 

[Linkmario00]

Remember that we can't shield grab any aerials that she throws to us if she spaces them correctly. Instead I'd go for an ASOOS, in Smash art it can lead to early KO and it has a good range. Speed can give you a nice height for hitting Peach while floating by SH due to its decreased jump height, but I would opt for Jump in this MU since it gives us the air mobility that we need against Peach. I say Buster is not a great choice here because we shouldn't be able to connect long strings and some Peach's Attacks deal a LOT damage. Dtilt is not that useful in this MU beacuse of float but Uptilt become even more fundamental due to its anti-air function, especially if the opponent likes to go above you for pressure you shield with Dair.
I'd say this is a +0, maybe a +1 for Shulk because he can outranges her pretty well and can escape from Peach's slow pressure by switching to Speed.

 

[erico9001]

I've been facing/winning against a lot of peaches lately, one of which was the second best on Smashladder. I think MU may be in our favor, but I'm uncertain of that as always.

Something very important in the MU is understanding how Peach's floating works. WHILE floating, her options are extremely limited.
-She cannot air dodge
-She cannot throw or drop turnips or any other item
-She cannot jump

All she can do is aerials or special attacks. In order to do other things, she must stop floating. However, she only gets one float, even if it is ended prematurely. She can decide to use that one float whenever she wants (seriously, at any time while in the air she can stop vertical movement and start floating), but it is always just one float. She cannot air dodge, then start floating again or something. Also, she cannot start a float while using an aerial, air dodge, or other move that prevents the input of other things. As I said, if she is floating, she cannot air dodge, and if she stops floating to airdodge, she might suffer landing lag if low enough to the ground. At any height below FH height, she will suffer landing lag if she stops the float and air dodges. At FH height, it is only possible to avoid landing lag with very quick execution (buffering does not work).

U-tilt is a really useful tool in this MU. There is no priority clanking or whatnot between aerials and grounded attacks, so feel free to U-tilt while she is attacking. You can use it if she is using Dair. U-tilt is frame 11, so one of our fastest moves. As I said above, she cannot air dodge while floating, and must execute inputs to both stop the floating and then air dodge. And she may suffer landing lag if she does so. She's basically a sitting duck to our U-tilt if she's approaching above us with aerials. We can use a number of other moves too. Fair, Bair, U-Smash, D-tilt if she's floating really low to the ground, etc...

Buster is favorite arts to use in this MU. Buster is usually good, but I suppose what might make it better here is U-tilt with Buster allows for good follow-ups. In general, her lightness prevents follow-ups while in arts other than Buster. Also, her Toad does not scale up in damage or knockback based on the damage of your moves, so Buster does not have to worry about Toad any more than the other arts.

Monado Jump has uses in breaking her turnip game somewhat and outspeeding her floating while in the air.

Watch out while using regular air slash, as the rage effect can prevent your attacks from connecting. Thankfully, it's not as much of an issue if she is above you like when floating. Monado Jump Air Slash works fine, though.

Advancing Air Slash is highly useful here, since either 1st or 2nd strike can be used to hurt her while she's floating in the air.

I use 2123. Power vision is nice because they can be rather predictable with their aerials while floating, since it's all they can really do without ending the float. Having power vision could mean a KO in the case you do counter her aerials then. Of course, the other visions have KO potential too. Dash vision might be useful against turnips. For other customs, I can ensure that Decisive Shield does tank your stock against this character.

Edgeguarding is not so bad here. Use a spaced Fair against her floating, and use a vision to intercept her parasol (usually kills her, too - especially with power vision) If she's using the custom up B: Parasol High Jump, Dair can be used risk-free.

Lastly, always watch her turnips. The stitched up mouth, the two dots for eyes, and the one with the winking eye are the turnips to watch out for. "Damage: Depends on the face of the turnip and how far it traveled. Average turnip is 5% - 9%. Wink-eyed does 13%. Dot-eyed does 15%. Stitch face does 28%" (Source). And, of course, bob-ombs and mr. Saturns can show up too.

One last thing, if you B-throw her off-stage and she comes back in by floating, Back Slash her ]=)

 

[Masonomace]

Just an fyi, Peach can't pluck Beam Swords anymore

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. . .
I typed up something just for this occasion, but then I live read & learn. Thanks for saving me from almost posting that.
--
That said, I've played a few Peach players on smashladder myself & I feel the MU goes either way I feel. As long as she's zoned out from our mid-range spacing it can go smoothly. Jump & Buster Arts feel great for her & ofc I'm a Shield fanatic so I always enjoy that for her too.

 

[Berserker.]

This match up is reaction based. I'd say it's +0

Your main objective is obviously to outspace her with your range. Once she floats, don't be afraid to contest her aerials. Even f-air, just make sure you space your aerials properly against Peach. F-air is great against Peach but imo, I personally love using b-air against her since the range is much more likely to beat out Peach's aerials, it requires less precision since it's a sure-shot to beat out her aerials also, and it fares well against Peach's floating movement (floating is mostly horizontal iirc so f-air's vertical coverage isn't that needed). F-air's great and all but sometimes, it's a bit hard to space especially when you're trying to contest Peach's f-air. I'd only use n-air if she's doing anything on the ground or if she's throwing turnips (shielding works too).

Peach is bad against mobile and fast characters. Although it sounds as if it's ideal to use speed against her and well... it is but take note that her frame data (OBVIOUSLY) is better than yours so even if you manage to get in, you're not doing yourself any favor tbh. Buster seems safer to me imo.

So yeah.

 

[erico9001]

This match up is reaction based. I'd say it's +0

Your main objective is obviously to outspace her with your range. Once she floats, don't be afraid to contest her aerials. Even f-air, just make sure you space your aerials properly against Peach. F-air is great against Peach but imo, I personally love using b-air against her since the range is much more likely to beat out Peach's aerials, it requires less precision since it's a sure-shot to beat out her aerials also, and it fares well against Peach's floating movement (floating is mostly horizontal iirc so f-air's vertical coverage isn't that needed). F-air's great and all but sometimes, it's a bit hard to space especially when you're trying to contest Peach's f-air. I'd only use n-air if she's doing anything on the ground or if she's throwing turnips (shielding works too).

Peach is bad against mobile and fast characters. Although it sounds as if it's ideal to use speed against her and well... it is but take note that her frame data (OBVIOUSLY) is better than yours so even if you manage to get in, you're not doing yourself any favor tbh. Buster seems safer to me imo.

So yeah.

I agree with this. I faced the same Peach as I did before again today, but this time in a tournament... with no customs. My aerials really helped this time, especially well spaced Bair, as you say. I was still using Buster. Recovering was more annoying for me without AAS, but that may be because I've just gotten used to AAS now (sigh, why did it have to be no customs...)

 

[Artryuu]

well... most of the stuff here has been covered up :v.other than...

Free backslush when Peach does fair : o

 

[Berserker.]

well... most of the stuff here has been covered up :v.other than...

Free backslush when Peach does fair : o

LMAO

Oh welcome back. I haven't seen you post in ages lol

 

[Artryuu]

LMAO

Oh welcome back. I haven't seen you post in ages lol

hee hee was kinda busy : c . but we're back ^_^ /

 

[Berserker.]

It's fine. Shulk boards have been fine. Shield art has been getting love and Smash art is getting hated on but this is probably the wrong thread for those topics lol

 

[topspin1617]

Hi guys,

Peach player here looking for a little insight on this matchup. I read through the thread, and most people seem to be saying the matchup is fairly even... may I ask what exactly Peach can do that can trouble Shulk so much?

Whenever I play a really good Shulk, I feel like I get almost totally shut down by the range on his sword, particularly his aerials. The various Monado arts just compound the problem. In your experience what can Peach do to deal with your massive disjoints?

 

[SafCar]

Turnips can clank with our actions and cancel them, Peach has frame data advantages over us in the air, Toad is viable against our laggy attacks, she can effectively gimp us if we aren't careful with M. Jump/we cause the "helpless" Monado Art glitch, etc.

Basically, she has aerial prowess and projectiles to go against us and our Monado Arts/disjoints

 

[topspin1617]

Turnips can clank with our actions and cancel them, Peach has frame data advantages over us in the air, Toad is viable against our laggy attacks, she can effectively gimp us if we aren't careful with M. Jump/we cause the "helpless" Monado Art glitch, etc.

Basically, she has aerial prowess and projectiles to go against us and our Monado Arts/disjoints

The turnips can do that? Huh... could've sworn I recall Shulks just nairing/fairing right through them, I'll have to try again.

As far as the aerial prowess, I suppose her frame data is much better... it's just really hard to deal with getting close enough to Shulk to actually make contact lol.

 

[Masonomace]

Shulk's N-air might or might be working against turnips due to the chance your turnip may deal more or less damage. So if my Vanilla 7% Blade N-air challenged a thrown turnip, I may usually win the challenge, but if it's a dot-eyed or stitch-face, I'm sure that I'll definitely lose that challenge. Maybe if Shulk has the Buster art active & tries challenging with a spaced 8% N-air (it'd be 11.2% in Buster), then it might work but I doubt it.

 

[topspin1617]

Shulk's N-air might or might be working against turnips due to the chance your turnip may deal more or less damage. So if my Vanilla 7% Blade N-air challenged a thrown turnip, I may usually win the challenge, but if it's a dot-eyed or stitch-face, I'm sure that I'll definitely lose that challenge. Maybe if Shulk has the Buster art active & tries challenging with a spaced 8% N-air (it'd be 11.2% in Buster), then it might work but I doubt it.

Hmm, I see...

But, of course, Peach is a lot more likely to pluck her weaker turnips, so she's far more likely to have the weaker one in hand most of the time.

So it sounds like you're saying, more often than not, Peach's turnip will be weak enough that Shulk can successfully challenge it.

I suppose this brings back my original question... given this, wouldn't one say this makes the matchup somewhat favor Shulk? I've seen multiple people cite the turnips as something that's an equalizer in the matchup, but this just seems to confirm what I thought; more often than not, I'll either have no turnip or have one weak enough that it may as well not exist once Shulk uses nair or fair. So Shulk should win the majority of confrontations, no? Add to that that Peach is quite light and Shulk can KO quite early... I don't know. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but every time I face a skilled Shulk online (which isn't all that often), I seem to have trouble doing much. Some games I keep close but usually lose out to his KO power... once in a while I just get stomped.

For me personally, the Shulk matchup is even more annoying than that; I don't particularly like any of my subs,

, , ,

against a good Shulk. I know this thread is for Peach specifically so I'm not really asking for anything on those 4 here, just... fully explaining my frustration lol.

 

[Masonomace]

Hmm, I see...

But, of course, Peach is a lot more likely to pluck her weaker turnips, so she's far more likely to have the weaker one in hand most of the time.

So it sounds like you're saying, more often than not, Peach's turnip will be weak enough that Shulk can successfully challenge it.

I suppose this brings back my original question... given this, wouldn't one say this makes the matchup somewhat favor Shulk? I've seen multiple people cite the turnips as something that's an equalizer in the matchup, but this just seems to confirm what I thought; more often than not, I'll either have no turnip or have one weak enough that it may as well not exist once Shulk uses nair or fair. So Shulk should win the majority of confrontations, no? Add to that that Peach is quite light and Shulk can KO quite early... I don't know. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but every time I face a skilled Shulk online (which isn't all that often), I seem to have trouble doing much. Some games I keep close but usually lose out to his KO power... once in a while I just get stomped.

N-air does make this struggling for Peach's turnip game, but like all projectile characters, holding an item & doing nothing with it while having patience is more fearsome than using it too soon. Something to keep in mind about Shulk's N-air is that the move starts becoming active behind Shulk on Frame 13 & slowly circles around Shulk, surrounding himself with that move. How about we play some matches some time? We can reflect off those matches & see what to work on from there.

 

[topspin1617]

N-air does make this struggling for Peach's turnip game, but like all projectile characters, holding an item & doing nothing with it while having patience is more fearsome than using it too soon. Something to keep in mind about Shulk's N-air is that the move starts becoming active behind Shulk on Frame 13 & slowly circles around Shulk, surrounding himself with that move. How about we play some matches some time? We can reflect off those matches & see what to work on from there.

I'd love to play sometime, that'd be great

And I suppose I do really have a tendency to play hyper-aggro, with all of my characters lol. Maybe Peach vs Shulk is a specific matchup where I really need to learn to play more defensively with turnips.