Pikachu is amazing

[EgeDal]

Playing with Pikachu serves you many opportunities to do awesome combos. It's so buffed and i think it's just top tier now.

 

[Psyant]

Honestly, he seems great at first and I was really pleased. Then I started noticing how difficult it is to close out a stock. Really difficult. People living longer seems to be a global thing with Smash 4, but Pikachu really has it bad from what I can tell. Even his strongest smash attack, fsmash, doesn't kill until about 120% (on non-heavy characters), and nair isn't as strong as it was in Brawl either. Outside of edge-guarding the characters that have reasonable recoveries, it's just really hard to finish anyone off with him.

 

[Pikabunz]

Pretty much what Psyant said. He's basically a worse version of his Brawl self.

 

[EgeDal]

Aa yeah? But i don't think it's a worse one, it is a lot easier to do many damage on characters anyway. I find it harder to get opponents on like 120% with Villager, which seems like an OP character. Pikachu got nerfed on his knockbacks maybe, but definitely buffed on everything else, as i experienced. But i don't know, maybe you're right.

 

[Gameboi834]

In my experienced, Pikachu's movement seems hella buffed; he moves and attacks LIGHTNING quick.

 

[Tagxy]

Pikachu is probably top tier or close to it, unless he ends up with some character thats specifically difficult for him.

 

[Pikabunz]

Why do you say he's top tier?

 

[Tagxy]

In the end having a good neutral game will be more important than killing, and the main characters who owned pika in neutral were taken out or nerfed (diddy, olimar, ICs). Vs characters like lucario and GW who mightve punished and killed pika earlier and were kinda tough, but were able to just be outplayed. Of course theres new characters or maybe a newly buffed character that might give pika trouble.

Also it doesnt seem like pikachu is worse off than other characters on killing imo, but I dont know if anyone has the full version.

 

[EgeDal]

In the end having a good neutral game will be more important than killing, and the main characters who owned pika in neutral were taken out or nerfed (diddy, olimar, ICs). Vs characters like lucario and GW who mightve punished and killed pika earlier and were kinda tough, but were able to just be outplayed. Of course theres new characters or maybe a newly buffed character that might give pika trouble.

Also it doesnt seem like pikachu is worse off than other characters on killing imo, but I dont know if anyone has the full version.

Full or demo doesn't change. Pikachu is not having so much trouble killing characters, also he is super fast and has ranged and accurate grab(yeah it really is, if you played the demo you should know)
So Pikachu is simply a way to go, it doesn't matter if any of those characters have better knockback, for example Villager's down+B tree is a REAL knockback, but in the end, if Pikachu wins, then he wins. That's it.
There is no tier for Smash in my belief, and i think even with lowest tier characters, you can win against high tier characters. Pokemon can be put in tiers, but not Smash, because it's a fighting game, and whoever ended up with the idea of tagging characters according to how "they" play it, doesn't get the core of this game. It's up to strategy and technique, just like almost every other fighting game, in my opinion.

 

[PedroSmashFan2014]

Pikachu forever!!!!

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Nerfs and buffa aside, Pikachu has never been a bad character in Smash. Talk that as you will, but he has something others lack: consistency.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Pretty much what Psyant said. He's basically a worse version of his Brawl self.

Most characters got nerfed more than he did, while Pikachu kept everything that was fundamentally stupid about his neutral and trap game for the most part. Oh and his throws are STILL good in a a game where most of them are meh.

In a game where there's no Brawl Metaknight...yeah. Pikachu is scary. Brawl Falco had poor KO setups. Top tier character due to neutral game.

Nerfs and buffa aside, Pikachu has never been a bad character in Smash. Talk that as you will, but he has something others lack: consistency.

He was really bad in Melee.

 

[PedroSmashFan2014]

Most characters got nerfed more than he did, while Pikachu kept everything that was fundamentally stupid about his neutral and trap game for the most part. Oh and his throws are STILL good in a a game where most of them are meh.

In a game where there's no Brawl Metaknight...yeah. Pikachu is scary. Brawl Falco had poor KO setups. Top tier character due to neutral game.

He was really bad in Melee.

Actually, I can beat Metaknight without bigger problems, prob is at tourneys, MK and Pikachu never met in the finals.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well the point I was more getting at is the calibur of top tier was way higher in Brawl, so Pikachu's changes relative to the rest of the cast leave him in a stronger position in Smash 4 when now there's not as many characters that can really contest his neutral.

Just...probably the only character that annoys me more is Sonic. That character never should have been buffed. Ever.

 

[Nocally]

He was really bad in Melee.

Axe says hi

 

[TKD]

Pika's like luigi/samus/falcon level in Melee. He's mid tier, not "really bad". He even like, beats Marth and gives Fox a lot of trouble.

In Brawl, pika vs mk wasn't too bad, and pika wasn't crippled by any chaingrab, but people just didn't like playing him for some reason. I know I didn't; Fox and MK were so much more explosive which is my preferred style at least.

 

[busken]

All pikachu mains can agree with me that Pikachu's already low killing power was nerfed by the shorter vertical range of thunder, lack of power in fsmash, and the lack of damage in nuetral air. And his one of his main pressure items in QAC is also not as good, making it harder and harder for Pikachu to get the kill. All of these factors made me consider dropping him , but I just couldn't. I think we as a community should just work harder and constantly keep the pressure on all characters we face.

 

[dettadeus]

Pikachu actually can kill very early with a solid airdodge read lol. Sweetspot fsmash can kill as early as 70 by the edge. Usmash kills around 110-130 on most chars which is still respectable since it's independent of stage positioning. Bad DI on thunder (like trying to get out of uthrow > thunder kind of DI) can kill at the edges like 120ish. Admittedly those are his only options outside of gimps, but they're still pretty good as they are. Just not as stupid as a lot of other characters' kill options.

 

[Psyant]

Other characters have stronger smash attacks but they're usually slower, too. Up smash is still a really good KO move combined with Pikachu's run speed. Only takes one read roll. A lot of characters struggle to land a strong hit to punish a roll away even if they see it coming.

Being arguably the best edgeguarder in the game goes a long way for kills, too. My opinion of Pikachu's kill power improved quite a lot since my initial demo impressions. He may not be the strongest in terms of knockback, but he can land his kill moves/gimps more often than most other characters.

Not to mention he's so dominating in the neutral game that getting your opponent to high %s isn't that hard.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

That's something I noticed about Pikachu is if you're a good Pika player you can basically keep them from having an easy time landing hits. It's very hard to react to a good Pikachu.

I'm still trying to get better T_T

 

[Shaymin slicker]

He is really good however I think he's worse than he is in brawl. (Like 2 others said here.) But he's still very good though with all of his new buffs.

I'm still trying to get better with him, but a real good Pikachu player can be a pain to play against.

 

[Mykelism]

I think he has his upsides and downsides between both this and brawl. His biggest loss is qac and chaingrab isn't much of a loss since everyone lost it. I think the only thing keeping him from being better than his brawl counterpart is the lack of nair kill strength.

 

[John Sorci]

Honestly, he seems great at first and I was really pleased. Then I started noticing how difficult it is to close out a stock. Really difficult. People living longer seems to be a global thing with Smash 4, but Pikachu really has it bad from what I can tell. Even his strongest smash attack, fsmash, doesn't kill until about 120% (on non-heavy characters), and nair isn't as strong as it was in Brawl either. Outside of edge-guarding the characters that have reasonable recoveries, it's just really hard to finish anyone off with him.

I noticed the same thing. He's fun and great to play, but hard to get the kill. Most of my KOs happen just from edge-guarding.

 

[GroundZero996]

I noticed the same thing. He's fun and great to play, but hard to get the kill. Most of my KOs happen just from edge-guarding.

Getting Thunder kills isn't that hard if you bait it well. Up Smash is also a pretty clean kill move IMO.

 

[One Tilt]

Honestly, he seems great at first and I was really pleased. Then I started noticing how difficult it is to close out a stock. Really difficult. People living longer seems to be a global thing with Smash 4, but Pikachu really has it bad from what I can tell. Even his strongest smash attack, fsmash, doesn't kill until about 120% (on non-heavy characters), and nair isn't as strong as it was in Brawl either. Outside of edge-guarding the characters that have reasonable recoveries, it's just really hard to finish anyone off with him.

Pikachu's power in Brawl is largely irrelevant. The entire cast had KO power reduced in general, so that comparison doesn't help to define Pikachu's strength in this game. His KO power compared to other characters in smash 4 is far more important... and it's certainly leagues above, say, Sheik's KO potential. Pikachu feels decidedly average in terms of smash 4 benchmarks-- certainly no Bowser, but that shouldn't be anyone's expectation. XD

 

[Shack]

I think his biggest issue is his range, other than that he's got a lot
F/U Smash are great KO tools and fairly quick
Throws are easy to land and lead to combos/KOs
Multiple Aerials that auto cancel
Quick Attack is great for mobility and long range punishes on people whiffing moves
D Smash is good for punish rolls
Thunder has some really nice buffs
Thunder jolt is a good projectile since you can stay mobile while using it to cover your approach or follow up
For a speedy combo based character, he gets legit KOs fairly easy

I think he struggles against longer range characters that have swords.

 

[Shack]

Sorry, please ignore this double post

 

[Flawed]

Pikachu is a solid character. He does struggle to kill. I read that F-smash kills at 70% from someone, thats completely wrong.

F-smash isn't a kill move until really high percents. Just today this evening my friend let me hit him with an F-smash at 140% as villager... and he didn't make it off screen, just to the other side of the stage. Now, DASH ATTACK on the other hand, lol.

I consider PIkas kill moves to be

-Up Smash
-Dash Attack
-Back throw with rage

Putting these 3 reliable KO moves that I consider, If an opponent holds shield, I'm kind of screwed. Of course, there are the pseudo combos like up throw thunder and the like, but those aren't real.

I landed an F-smash (NOT STALE) on Reflex's jigglypuff and he survived 112%. Was it DI? Or was it a weak attack. Either way, its silly.

 

[Pikabunz]

I think you weren't hitting with the sweetspot. I don't see how dash attack or bthrow are killing earlier than it.

 

[Dr Fumbles]

Sweetspot fsmash can kill as early as 70 by the edge.

Just today this evening my friend let me hit him with an F-smash at 140% as villager... and he didn't make it off screen, just to the other side of the stage.

dettadeus was talking about a scenario where you f-smash them from the edge towards the closest blast zone and in your case it seems you launched your friend in the other direction. Also spacing plays an important part to it as well; stand too close and you won't even kill G&W at 180.

Dat dash attack tho! Always surprises me when I switch back to pika after a while and the dash attack kills lol

 

[dettadeus]

Keep in mind there are like three fsmash hitboxes, one of them is noticeably stronger than the other two and it can kill early by the edge... facing offstage and hitting the person offstage lol

 

[Flawed]

Ok, I stand corrected. Since pika's fsmashes USED to be perfectly normal, I just threw it out expecting to kill at normal ranges. Its cute that they decided to give him marths F smash.

Kill moves
-Fsmash( sweet spot)
-Dash attack
-Backthrow
-Up smash

anything else?

 

[Psyant]

Thunder Spike into Pika kills a lot if you're near the edge. Usually at the % where it combos from up throw on a character they will also die if they get sent off towards the nearer blastzone from the edge of the stage. They'll always go the way you're facing when you up throw thunder, so if you up throw near the ledge facing off and it combos in my experience it's almost always a direct kill.

 

[dettadeus]

Ok, I stand corrected. Since pika's fsmashes USED to be perfectly normal, I just threw it out expecting to kill at normal ranges. Its cute that they decided to give him marths F smash.

Kill moves
-Fsmash( sweet spot)
-Dash attack
-Backthrow
-Up smash

anything else?

It was never normal lol, even way back in melee it had different hitboxes. It's more unusual for a move to not have any sourspot/sweetspot hitboxes than to have multiple.
Also the sweetspot isn't at max range, it's between the sphere and his cheeks.

 

[One Tilt]

I feel like Pikachu's weakest area is shield pressure, and that's what's more likely than anything else to keep him from being the very best, like no one ever was. What defines Shiek? Combos? Air game? I say it's shield pressure-- good grab combos, a quick Fair, a long range Nair, needles, quick Ftilts, a good repeating jab... and that's why Shiek feels to have an edge over Pika, who has better KO power and similar speed/range. ZSS is another excellent example-- her tether alone makes for such heavy shield pressure that it allows her to start up the combo game. That's what separates Mario from Sheik, and thus Sheik from Pikachu-- shield pressure. It's why Little Mac can function so well onstage (Ftilt and Jabs and even smashes have shield pressure), for that matter. Pika's still better than Mario, for having an edge in speed, but if we can't find a way for Pikachu to pressure shields, no amount of good roll-punishing will really matter. Jabs are pretty useless for Pika, and Ftilt isn't safe to really repeat either, while Pika's grab 'threat' isn't high enough to really compare with ZSS or Diddy.

I think shield pressure might come to define smash 4's measure of characters' viability, just as speed and combos defined previous games. Because combos only exist for such a minority, and because speed is so much more normalized in attacks, I think shield pressure stands out as the unique factor that divides the cast-- as it's one of the few things that some characters distinctly do or do not have.

 

[Aenglaan]

Pikachu has always been an excellent character in Smash Bros, something few can testify to. Not too much has really changed from my limited experience with him. It seems to mostly behow good he is relative to the other top characters in the game.