Chuee, I <3 you even though you ignore me alot. ;_;
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Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
this is the third best pit player in the nation saying that he has experiance against the best lucas main's in texas and your trying to discredit him instead of taking what he says with at least a grain of salt. and lol at whoever said lucas isn't easy to gimp, he is. at for pit lucas is gimp bait, any other MU he may not be but we are talking specifically pit vs lucas. for gr, fsmash is guarenteed as is everything else i listed, i tested with gr DI back when i did the listed thread.
like i said earlier, one of you should pm ptzr and ask him, he has experiance with your main's best players
like i said earlier, one of you should pm ptzr and ask him, he has experiance with your main's best players
Xcallion
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2010
- Messages
- 679
Something that might be worth testing: WoI can cause a complete momentum cancel(for other characters), so we might be able to halt the zap jump and leave you guys in a vunerable position, possible footstool you out of wings, ect. someone should try this to confirm because if it's true then it would really hurt your guy's recovery.
Don't strawman the disagreeance. That is not what it is at all. We are not trying to discredit what your apparant best player is saying but what he is saying is just not correct with facts. Also they may be proclaimed the best lucas main's but the only one we have heard of is Tallman. Fight Pink Fresh, Nasty, Mekos, FAE or other known Lucas mains then I may listen a bit more openly.
*sigh* I am getting tired of arguing this point. But let me clarify what I am getting at, offstage is where Pit wins the MU. However, Lucas still isn't easy to gimp even with Pit. Yes, Pit has a slightly easier time then other characters but Lucas isn't "free" as you are saying when he is offstage.Maharba said:
Fsmash is garunteed, fair enough. The rest I am personally not gonna argue because I need to recheck the numbers.Maharba said:
PTZR plays Pink Fresh iirc in my area. He does have a good pit from what I recall so yes, I would love to hear his opinion. =DMaharba said:
Esca
Smash Champion
http://www.youtube.com/user/RisingPhoenix412?blend=12&ob=5#p/u/4/OEMGBj9HQHQ
How are you a lucas main and dont know who phoenixalpha is?! He was one of the best if not THE best, next to proAPC for a while. Sure Pink Fresh and Mekos are better now, because PA retired. PheonixAlpha beat 7-10 Texas PR'ed players back in April-June 2010, so he definately knew his ****.
Also, you check the frame data son. You're the one that's gonna be getting grabbed all day long. Just check the boards, there's frame data somewhere and it will support what I'm saying.
It's -2 or -3. 6:4 to 7:3 Pit's favor.
4 grab releases, and a mirror shield. You're done Lucas.
Bottom line, what I'm saying is that I know myself, Earth, Masashi or Koolaid would never in a million lose to any calibur Lucas player by any measure.
How are you a lucas main and dont know who phoenixalpha is?! He was one of the best if not THE best, next to proAPC for a while. Sure Pink Fresh and Mekos are better now, because PA retired. PheonixAlpha beat 7-10 Texas PR'ed players back in April-June 2010, so he definately knew his ****.
Also, you check the frame data son. You're the one that's gonna be getting grabbed all day long. Just check the boards, there's frame data somewhere and it will support what I'm saying.
It's -2 or -3. 6:4 to 7:3 Pit's favor.
4 grab releases, and a mirror shield. You're done Lucas.
Bottom line, what I'm saying is that I know myself, Earth, Masashi or Koolaid would never in a million lose to any calibur Lucas player by any measure.
That doesn't mean ****.
M2K has more diddy experience than just about every other MK main yet he says MK loses. Do we listen to him? No.
Just because you're a top player with a character doesn't automatically mean everything you say about them is truth. Not to mention being 3rd best Pit in the states isn't that big.
Also Lucas is pretty much near impossible to gimp when they can consistently Zap jump.
Stop. Please, for the love of god.
PheonixAlpha was never recognized as the best Lucas. Ever, and neither was APC. They were good, but there were others around that time who were better like Tyr and Galeon.
Way to strawman the hell out of it. Nothing you've ever said has anything to do with frame data besides grab releases. Also lmao at getting grabbed all day long. Pit got dat D3 grab yo.
No, the MU is at best +2 for Pit. +3 is ridiculously overrated.
I'm glad that you're entire argument is that you can grab release him into four different attacks and that you can reflect his PKT IF you can force it. Great information.
loool I'm pretty sure Inui said the same thing, yet he lost to Pink Fresh. You may think
the MU is so easy and everything, but saying that you KNOW you won't lose is just plain arrogant.
Blubolouis
Smash Lord
This is getting out of hand.
I have very little Lucas experience, however I'd like to point out that if the lucas is expecting(key word) a GR to stutterstep Fsmash, he shouldn't get killed, LOL. It's not as easy to SDI as Usmash but when you know it's coming you shouldn't get hit by the second hit.
I have very little Lucas experience, however I'd like to point out that if the lucas is expecting(key word) a GR to stutterstep Fsmash, he shouldn't get killed, LOL. It's not as easy to SDI as Usmash but when you know it's coming you shouldn't get hit by the second hit.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Agreed.
Let's supply some solid facts to this debate with proof to back it up, instead of "Pit should never lose to Lucas. I give it a -3 or -4". I appreciate all the Pit mains we've gotten to give feedback in this thread(we only had one D3 main in the other export
), but now it's just turned into a heated argument.Let's just be reasonable with one another, folks.
rPSIvysaur
[ɑɹsaɪ]
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 16,415
KoozyK
Smash Ace
watch for this edit im about to do. its going to be a doozy
EDIT:
okay now to say what i was going to say......a smasrt lucas playing is not going to get gimped.
yall win when we are of and below the edge of the stage.
a smart lucas is gonna have a DJ to save him
- so we can either jump
-do one of our various zapjumps,
- tether
-magnet pull
if you really think our recovery is something to continue to look down upon, here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JSVIFYzZfY&feature=player_embedded
o yea.... can we calm down and act civil.
EDIT:
......kinda ignorant bruh.
stawman... and again if u didnt get it the first time.
okay now to say what i was going to say......a smasrt lucas playing is not going to get gimped.
yall win when we are of and below the edge of the stage.
a smart lucas is gonna have a DJ to save him
- so we can either jump
-do one of our various zapjumps,
- tether
-magnet pull
if you really think our recovery is something to continue to look down upon, here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JSVIFYzZfY&feature=player_embedded
^^^^^lolololol really rocket? this is all u gotta say?
o yea.... can we calm down and act civil.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Let's address our approach options, shall we?
Xcallion
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2010
- Messages
- 679
we'll both be approaching with SH aerials and baiting magnet/reflector. I think that whoever is less patient is going to have to approach as we can both camp eachother pretty well. At very long ranges, while you're grounded just sit there with magnet until we get close enough for you to threaten and bait us with pk-fire. Once we're close to one another, we'll be using a lot of jab and d-tilt as those are good ranged fast moves and they beat a lot of your close range options. You guys in turn should be doing SH aerials like usual (DAT NAIR!) and you shouldnt let us stay inside our safe zone. Make us be on edge and not in control. That's the only way you're really going to win CQC with a character like us. it's not like we're MK and we outrange and outprioritize everything you have by a huge margin, but we do have a bit more range on several of our moves than you do.
Hey look, my 555th post
Hey look, my 555th post
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
alright then, ill list how i usually fight lucas instead of arguing frame data. this is what works for me so whether it's frame proven or not, here's how i personally handle him.
when we are both at zero percent ill just out patient lucas until he approaches. seriously i have no reason to approach as lucas has a hard time approaching pit because of dtilt, jab, sh fair, and sh dair all out space lucas while allowing pit to keep his mobility. these moves are longer in range and have that high priority pit is known for. dtilt will be used mostly when you are near it's tip to avoid the possibility of punishment and jab will be used when you are closer than that. fair will be used in conjunction with those 2 moves to keep the space between us adequate enough to allow pit to have plenty of options whereas dair will be used to get in a read or mix up defensive tactics and get you in the air where we want you.
while pit's standing grab range is nothing special, his pivot grab range is almost marth status. and seeing as how it was discovered that you can instant pivot grab a long while ago, most pit's use this to get the grab range boost and that is where the gr follow ups will most likely come from outside of a read.
believe it or not, lucas is still succeptible to aspects of our onstage arrow game (offstage should be an obvious duh lol). you have to approach assuming pit is in the lead and grounded pivot arrow will either catch you off guard or force a reaction from you that will usually be favorable for pit (you shield as we charge arrow) or neutral (pull out magnet whereas we can angle it not to heal you).
getting the kill just involves patience for pit. we will either try to force a mistake on stage and gr>fsmash/dsmash or we will rock you offstage (yes we all know by now that lucas does have options offstage, the fact is one fair or bair offstage and you are dead the hard way. otherwise we are just waiting for an opportunity to gimp you somehow). also onstage, one read side step and you will be ftilted at kill percents and our ftilt is a solid kill move and as esca stated it outranges and out prioritizes everything you do.
stages would be halberd and RC for me as i play the mu hella gay there and just shark and gimp the entire time and on the normal parts i just play as listed above.
when we are both at zero percent ill just out patient lucas until he approaches. seriously i have no reason to approach as lucas has a hard time approaching pit because of dtilt, jab, sh fair, and sh dair all out space lucas while allowing pit to keep his mobility. these moves are longer in range and have that high priority pit is known for. dtilt will be used mostly when you are near it's tip to avoid the possibility of punishment and jab will be used when you are closer than that. fair will be used in conjunction with those 2 moves to keep the space between us adequate enough to allow pit to have plenty of options whereas dair will be used to get in a read or mix up defensive tactics and get you in the air where we want you.
while pit's standing grab range is nothing special, his pivot grab range is almost marth status. and seeing as how it was discovered that you can instant pivot grab a long while ago, most pit's use this to get the grab range boost and that is where the gr follow ups will most likely come from outside of a read.
believe it or not, lucas is still succeptible to aspects of our onstage arrow game (offstage should be an obvious duh lol). you have to approach assuming pit is in the lead and grounded pivot arrow will either catch you off guard or force a reaction from you that will usually be favorable for pit (you shield as we charge arrow) or neutral (pull out magnet whereas we can angle it not to heal you).
getting the kill just involves patience for pit. we will either try to force a mistake on stage and gr>fsmash/dsmash or we will rock you offstage (yes we all know by now that lucas does have options offstage, the fact is one fair or bair offstage and you are dead the hard way. otherwise we are just waiting for an opportunity to gimp you somehow). also onstage, one read side step and you will be ftilted at kill percents and our ftilt is a solid kill move and as esca stated it outranges and out prioritizes everything you do.
stages would be halberd and RC for me as i play the mu hella gay there and just shark and gimp the entire time and on the normal parts i just play as listed above.
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
- WoI gimps Lucas off stage pretty hard
- Arrows gimp him even harder than ness if he's forced to use PKT2
- Zap-jumping when used efficiently still puts Lucas at a bad position; above Pit. U-air, arrows if used correctly, and WoI-refresh chasing lets Pit get an upperhand on Lucas from his akward position with no jumps now.
- Grab-release shananigans as Esca said
Brinstar would be fun against Lucas, but it's best to keep it to neutrals, doesn't matter. Hell YI even can mess up Lucas's recovery-interests, and we generally don't NEED to scrooge to be safe coming back on stage on YI.
My stages would be personally be:
BF
Lylat
RC
Brinstar
Ten times better than getting gimped.
I honestly didn't think the discussion was getting out of hand haha. I've seen much much worse. Regardless of what I am saying, I really do appreciate you guys for giving your input from your side of the arguement.
Makes me wanna play Luckay again. I need to go to a tourny again.
Makes me wanna play Luckay again. I need to go to a tourny again.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
ill try and get some vids against tallman for you guys next time i see him in tourney and if you guys have any texas rep nowadays send them mine and esca's way and we'll get some footage
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
jesus f-ing christ I just played FAE today and that guy's lucas is balls to walls, I don't get how good he is Seriously, it may be wifi and I can't react to his jab shenanigans, but...the rest of it was hilarious, he damn hear 3-stocked me on my CP (Frigate)... I don't like that stage anymore! oh well, wasnt part of my reccomendations anyways.
I suck guyz. I lost to a
lucas
Seriously, it may be wifi and I can't react to his jab shenanigans, but...the rest of it was hilarious, he damn hear 3-stocked me on my CP (Frigate)... I don't like that stage anymore! oh well, wasnt part of my reccomendations anyways.I suck guyz. I lost to a
wifi
KoozyK
Smash Ace
there are different types of zapjumps, we can instantly magnetpull afterone of them. and if pushes us pretty far.
aproaches
dair and landing behind pit with nair are safe on shield.
im thinking out forward air is always good too. font get grabbed at low precentiles though if ur gonna do it.
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
Lucas is hard to grab but this is good advice since it can get pri annoying.
Better record dem matches so we can all see them.Time him out with wario.
KoozyK
Smash Ace
not even close
allshort17
Smash Ace
Alright, help a Lucas out by answering some simple questions:
1. What are some good ways to approach Pit. I have terrible doing so.
2. What moves can I punish Pit on say up-close. I mean like when Pit does this move I have a good chance of punishing this whiff of shielded.
I'm new, but I think to have a good discussion try to keep it as facial as possible. Opinions don't mean much if you can't show how it works.
1. What are some good ways to approach Pit. I have terrible doing so.
2. What moves can I punish Pit on say up-close. I mean like when Pit does this move I have a good chance of punishing this whiff of shielded.
I'm new, but I think to have a good discussion try to keep it as facial as possible. Opinions don't mean much if you can't show how it works.
Xcallion
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2010
- Messages
- 679
wiffed angel ring, smashes(you have a very small window here <-- ), if we mess up on our auto-cancels you can punish that, mirror shield is punishable and f-tilt is very laggy. For approaching i would be ready to magnet any arrows because if you dont then we'll use them. Long-mid range, simply walking fowards or jumping fowards while being read to magnet is a good approach. At mid-close range lay down some pressure with well spaced pk fires. Make it so even if we reflect them it wont go all the way back to you, then punish the reflector. Once you're that close in you only need to worry about our jab, tilts and SH aerials. keep in mind that our f-tilt can be punished if we wiff if and our aerials can be punished if we mispace them or fail to autocancel them correctly(pit has some nasty landing lag with his aerials).
I'm sorry i'm not going too much into specifics with what moves you should use to punish, but i havent played very high level lucas's so i dont want to say something misleading by mistake.
I'm sorry i'm not going too much into specifics with what moves you should use to punish, but i havent played very high level lucas's so i dont want to say something misleading by mistake.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
i'd just like to point out that if we hit your shield with the TIP of our ftilt you can't punish it. otherwise xcallion is right. also i'd like to say that just because you have magnet, just walking up and shielding our arrows is easier to do (unless your magnet comes out faster than shield but if you use it too close your eating a dash attack>follow up)
FightAdamantEevee
Smash Lord
Are you saying that if the arrow hits Lucas he will get hit by dash attack, or if he absorbs it? If you're saying he'll get punished for absorbing, he won't. He can laglessly cancel Magnet at anytime while absorbing something into an aerial, a roll, or a spotdodge.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Not to mention that the magnet can be released when Pit moves in for the attack, damaging him.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
arrow true combos into buffered dash attack at certain spacings.
KoozyK
Smash Ace
well if this happens its gonna be extremely fast.
like imtalking frams
like imtalking frams
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
also, i didn't know you could lagless end magnet. that's cool tbh. i wonder if we could reflect or turn you around if we mirrored your magnet release. it'd be lulzy to see anyways
FightAdamantEevee
Smash Lord
I'm still not sure on what you're trying to explain. So are you talking about if the arrow actually hits him or if he absorbs it? It's kind of hard to tell based on how you wrote it. If you're talking about just being close to a Pit when he's about to arrow, PS'ing is safe. If you're talking about shooting an arrow at Lucas and he absorbs it, and you punish it, that's not a thing.
EDIT: If you mirror the Magnet release it'd probably just push you back a little.
EDIT: If you mirror the Magnet release it'd probably just push you back a little.
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