PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

[BoTastic!]

Ness' isn't meant to KO as well my good man...but they have around the same level of power when they are at KO range...which pretty much shows me that they are meant to do the same things pretty much if you think about it (we've already said it...IIRC...Ness beats Mario in killing power)...they also do the same amount of % (7%)

Notice how I did compared more then just KO power though? (and I even said that the killing power difference wasn't much...I mean really...a 6% difference is all there is)

Speed (they tie in start up time...I'm pretty sure they have the same cool down time as well...don't know about the stun time though)
Ness' is DJed...Mario's has like a 1% difference in range that can out do Ness'...but...really...I'm not joking about there only being a 1% difference

I never use Utilt to kill. I'm Normally using Fsmash. I use Utilt in between Uair juggles and just to juggle period. It is more of a juggling tool. Idk if Ness's is used to juggle as well. But Utilt was never meant to KO.

 

[_clinton]

I never use Utilt to kill. I'm Normally using Fsmash. I use Utilt in between Uair juggles and just to juggle period. It is more of a juggling tool. Idk if Ness's is used to juggle as well. But Utilt was never meant to KO.

Again...I'm not saying it is meant to KO...notice how I've said they are alike?

 

[Gaussis]

I'm going to have to look into this matchup a bit more. The arguments of PK Nintendo and some of the Mario mains sound convincing. Idk, but if anyone should have an explanation to make it's thesage. 60:40? Unless I'm missing something, this matchup is neutral with Mario at a very slight advantage.

I'm up for a few games if anyone is interested.

 

[_clinton]

I'm going to have to look into this matchup a bit more. The arguments of PK Nintendo and some of the Mario mains sound convincing. Idk, but if anyone should have an explanation to make it's thesage. 60:40? Unless I'm missing something, this matchup is neutral with Mario at a very slight advantage.

I'm up for a few games if anyone is interested.

I'm game for games ^_^

 

[Gaussis]

Not to be rude, but I meant this for the Mario mains.

 

[Levitas]

PK thunder frame data isn't relevant here or pretty much anywhere. That's why I didn't include it.

 

[Matador]

I'm game for some matches. PM me when ur up for em.

 

[Kanzaki]

Yay Matador, rep Mario! <3

 

[Uffe]

On wifi.

 

[Matador]

Sorry for double post but. Yeah I agree with most of this, and Im glad that you changed from 7-3 to 55-45. I disagree with ground game, while Mario has the better ground game, it's not by much. I suppose Mario's tilts do outrange Ness but...

Ness' do more damage (down tilt especially) and are generally faster. Judy, Mario isn't the only player who can use his utilt spam. Ness can too! His uptilt functions the same, with less spam but more range/priority. His ftilt does more damage and it's priority is insane. And Ness downtilt is just plain better than Mario's downtilt.
Tilt wise, I think Ness wins out.

Well, Mario's dtilt serves absolutely NO purpose, so Ness definitely wins out there. But Mario's Ftilt is faster and has more range, and Mario's Utilt is one of his most important juggling tools. It's basically a combo REstarter for when the opponent is getting knocked too far from Uair chains; the Utilt puts them back in place overhead. His jab game is also slightly better even though Ness' jab -> dashgrab = sex. Combine that with the fact that Mario's smashes have more range and power, and he wins out on the ground.

Ness can SH 2 aerials into one Hop too you know. 2 bairs, (like Mario) 2 fairs (unlike Mario) 2 uairs, 2 nairs. In fact ALL of Ness aerials can be SH except his dair.

Indeed...I've always found the timing a bit strict and never found a real purpose for it. But you're right, he does. Must've slipped my mind.

I disagree with even KO. The sheer power of Ness backthrow makes him a better killer. FINALLY someone realises that Ness has equal weight to Mario () But yeah, he also has his bair (strong) PK flash, PKT2, and Fsmash. It's better but not by much.

All of Ness' KO options only KO at % higher than an up-angled Fsmash, which kills at 100% with DI off the edge. It's also disjointed and covers more range than all of Ness' smashes if pivot smashed (decided that I don't like the term "stutter step"). Usmash is about as safe as Bthrow as well and only KOs 12 % higher and is also disjointed. The Bthrow is an excellent tool to have for guaranteed KOs, but that's all he has that can compete with Mario's Fsmash and Usmash.

Ness can limit his approach via psi magnet cancel (said before) and counter Mario's SH aerials with his. A defensive Ness is just as (if not more) as deadly as Mario. Again, what Mario can do, Ness can do too. Upsmash OOS is also possible with him.

Psi magnet doesn't really limit much. You eat the fireball, but we're still coming in right behind it. As long as we've gotten close, its done its job. From there, we're close enough to shield or whatever since we're also suffering no lag.

What defensive options does Ness have? I'm curious.

Ness' Usmash OOS is probably good (I've never tried it), but it kills at much higher percentages and is slower. Overall, less of a threat.

Yes Mario's edge guarding plays a big role, but his recovery is much to underrated. It takes alot of flack. And no offense Mario mains, Mario just isn't as tough to face as Peach, DK and Rob (who are 55-45)
(Yes, Ness AND Mario aren't that great)

It's definetely a 50-50.

Answer me this. You've played Mario for awhile. If you were going up against a good Ness by your standards, do you think you could gimp him? With all the tools at Mario's disposal and how effective they are against Ness offstage, do you really think we're just pulling this out of our asses?

I think Mario can gimp G-dorf, DK, and Link farse worse by the fact that Ness has such a splendid double jump.

Mario destroys their recoveries though. Like...to the point where if you haven't gimped them at least once per round, you're doing something wrong. Ness' recovery is a cut above them in terms of gimp difficulty.

@ Matador, I love how you know alot more about Ness. Kudos to you!

I knew we'd come back to this matchup sooner or later

 

[BoTastic!]

Again...I'm not saying it is meant to KO...notice how I've said they are alike?

I get what your saying. The comparison doesn't seem too relevant or important to me though, but anyway..

Btw any Ness's can play either me or Matador if they want experience in the match if they don't already. I also Believe 60:40 is also too big.

 

[Matador]

On wifi.

Meh, it's all we have. It's obviously not THAT bad if you were playing on it.

 

[Uffe]

Meh, it's all we have. It's obviously not THAT bad if you were playing on it.

That video wasn't requested by me. All I'm saying is that Ness isn't exactly all that great on wifi.

 

[Kanzaki]

That video wasn't requested by me. All I'm saying is that Ness isn't exactly all that great on wifi.

Wifi is all we got, unless you want to come to Cali and play me in person, Matador's state, Boss' state, Box's state, Monk's state, or any other pro Mario's area.. Wifi it is :D

 

[Uffe]

Wifi is all we got, unless you want to come to Cali and play me in person, Matador's state, Boss' state, Box's state, Monk's state, or any other pro Mario's area.. Wifi it is :D

*ahem* One, I lol'd. Two, I live in California which is why I lol'd. Three, I'd love to make the four hour trip or however long it takes to drive to Orange County. Unfortunately for me I live in Fresno and don't feel like wasting four hours just to play someone I never met. Sure, tourney goers do this, but really.

 

[Levitas]

As far as the gimping is concerned, Ness players generally camp the middle of the stage. You'll find that it's hard to gimp ness not because of your tools, but because Ness players feel uneasy by the edge, making it harder to get them offstage.

Nair is usually much better OOS than upsmash.

 

[Kanzaki]

*ahem* One, I lol'd. Two, I live in California which is why I lol'd. Three, I'd love to make the four hour trip or however long it takes to drive to Orange County. Unfortunately for me I live in Fresno and don't feel like wasting four hours just to play someone I never met. Sure, tourney goers do this, but really.

I'm a busy person, college and work >< So I won't have time to goto Fresno, but if you're ever in Orange County, let me know :D


Since you're up in NorCal, challenge TC1, he uses Mario, I don't know where in NorCal he lives though.

 

[_clinton]

I get what your saying. The comparison doesn't seem too relevant or important to me though, but anyway..

Btw any Ness's can play either me or Matador if they want experience in the match if they don't already. I also Believe 60:40 is also too big.

I'll play you sometime if you want good sir...

 

[Uffe]

I'm a busy person, college and work >< So I won't have time to goto Fresno, but if you're ever in Orange County, let me know :D


Since you're up in NorCal, challenge TC1, he uses Mario, I don't know where in NorCal he lives though.

D: I understand! When you said you live in CA, I was really hoping in Fresno. That'd be really cool, because I'd love to meet some smashers in person. :D The only smasher I know is my brother and my friend, who at the moment doesn't own the Wii or Brawl. T~T He liked Ike, though. XD We definitely need to be friends here. O:

EDIT: Tell you what. I saw your video and it looked really good. I'm not the best Ness to go up against since I don't go to tournaments anyway. But if you're up for some friendlies, that's cool.

 

[HeroMystic]

Don't mean to say it for the 9000 time...but have you tried FLUDD?

Lol, only you would remind me of that.

I'll try it out next time.

 

[Gaussis]

*ahem* One, I lol'd. Two, I live in California which is why I lol'd. Three, I'd love to make the four hour trip or however long it takes to drive to Orange County. Unfortunately for me I live in Fresno and don't feel like wasting four hours just to play someone I never met. Sure, tourney goers do this, but really.

I lololol. I live in LA.

Wifi mindgame are annoying. Especially when you depend on frame-specific moves to beat them (i.e. nair). I knew I lacked experience against Mario, but I got owned by Matador in the first few games.

I'm going to try this again tomorrow.

 

[BoTastic!]

I'll play you sometime if you want good sir...

I'll add you code.

And kanzaki stop calling me box lol.

 

[Gaussis]

BOX7, BO X7, what's the difference?

 

[BoTastic!]

BOX7, BO X7, what's the difference?

The space between the O and the X

 

[Matador]

I lololol. I live in LA.

Wifi mindgame are annoying. Especially when you depend on frame-specific moves to beat them (i.e. nair). I knew I lacked experience against Mario, but I got owned by Matador in the first few games.

I'm going to try this again tomorrow.

You're in LA?! Welll...that was a pretty good connection from that far away; I'm in Maryland on the opposite coast XD.

Very fun matches, I was amazed you could control PKT so well in the lag. We'll have to do that again sometime.

 

[Kanzaki]

I lololol. I live in LA.

Wifi mindgame are annoying. Especially when you depend on frame-specific moves to beat them (i.e. nair). I knew I lacked experience against Mario, but I got owned by Matador in the first few games.

I'm going to try this again tomorrow.

Where in LA you live? I goto Cal Poly Pomona, so I'm always in the LA area.


BOX is easier to say BO X7 :[ I'm too lazy to press space bar ^^

I believe I saw somewhere your name stood for Body Odor times 7?

 

[BoTastic!]

Where in LA you live? I goto Cal Poly Pomona, so I'm always in the LA area.


BOX is easier to say BO X7 :[ I'm too lazy to press space bar ^^

I believe I saw somewhere your name stood for Body Odor times 7?

lol don't listen to vato break. Its stands for obvious reasons BO X7

BoBoBo BoBoBoBo,

 

[HeroMystic]

I HATE that show. =/

 

[PKNintendo]

Ah! It's nice to see the Ness and Mario mains bond.

What show is Bo X7.

 

[_clinton]

I'll add you code.

And kanzaki stop calling me box lol.

Ok...I'll be back later and maybe I'll be able to play...

 

[Matador]

Ah! It's nice to see the Ness and Mario mains bond.

What show is Bo X7.

Well don't jinx it XD

BO X7's name refers to an anime that used to come on Toonami (I think) by the name of BoBobo Bobobobo. The most random show I've ever seen in my life. Still quite amusing though.

 

[_clinton]

Well...I'm back much sooner then I thought I would be...

700th post now ^_^

 

[BoTastic!]

Clinton tell me when ever you are ready.

 

[_clinton]

Bo...I'm trying to get good with the Mario as well...so...want some mirrors some time?

 

[Uffe]

Ah! It's nice to see the Ness and Mario mains bond.

What show is Bo X7.

I'm positive it's not that we ever disliked each other. It's just when a match up discussion happens, things heat up. Like just yesterday I added Kanzaki to my friend list. I'm not sure if he accepted it, but whatever. If there is anybody I'd like to play against, it's BO X7. His Mario looks really good. The only thing that's holding me back is the thought of lag.

 

[BoTastic!]

I'm positive it's not that we ever disliked each other. It's just when a match up discussion happens, things heat up. Like just yesterday I added Kanzaki to my friend list. I'm not sure if he accepted it, but whatever. If there is anybody I'd like to play against, it's BO X7. His Mario looks really good. The only thing that's holding me back is the thought of lag.

Yea, you said you lived in LA?

 

[Uffe]

Yea, you said you lived in LA?

No, I live in Fresno. Gaussis lives in LA. My Ness has been horrible on wifi for the past couple of days. It's actually quite upsetting, too. I don't know where this horrible lag came from. ]:< Wifi is general is one thing, but lag to where I feel like I'm having to try harder than I should is another.

 

[_clinton]

I've noticed I never really gave my thoughts on this match up ^_^

5:5 even is my thought...ATM

 

[Matador]

I've noticed I never really gave my thoughts on this match up ^_^

5:5 even is my thought...ATM

Why? I'm seriously thinking 55:45 Mario is being lenient.

 

[PKNintendo]

Why? I'm seriously thinking 55:45 Mario is being lenient.

Leniant? Meh, I think Peach and DK at 55-45 is leniant.I mean, we keep going back to gimping, but what about the other aspects of the match? We went over those, and I think that's what matters most!

Mario can gimp Snake, does that play into the matchup completely? I don't think so. Again, unless Mario comes up with some wacky CG or grab release to push him over 5-5, I say it's even.

(Yesterday, I played against a few Mario's. The first few Mario mains were bad, the last Mario main I faced was good. I found that gimping was least of my worries)