Pokemon Trainer Socratic Discussion Thread

[Magik0722]

typically i would do it during a KO, i switch immediately after i do the move which i know is going to ko, maybe squeezing in one more, if not zero switch twice

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What about buffering Bullet Seed out of a Zero Switch? It gives you the few invincibility frames in the beginning, and depending on where the opponent is, you could get them in it, even if the first hit doesn't pop them up. Since you're getting off the platform, it's already less risky than a normal Bullet Seed.

 

[Zigsta]

That sounds interesting, Reflex. We should test this. :O

 

[Magik0722]

In my previous tests it was hard to get the B moves to come out, it would either do sdie b upair or upB instead of the B move even though i wasnt pressing anyhting else while i was buffering

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

In my previous tests it was hard to get the B moves to come out, it would either do sdie b upair or upB instead of the B move even though i wasnt pressing anyhting else while i was buffering

maybe you are doing it wrong.

i dont have any problem rocksmashin or using Up B out of the z switch.

 

[Magik0722]

Yes but reflex is asking about buffering it, and for some reason different moves would come out than what i would press in

 

[Bestiarius]

It seems to me that they'd have to be very over-aggressive in order for a Bullet Seed out of a Zero Switch to work. They would have to be literally right on top of you in order for you to pull it off. I could say more definitively with some frame data. There'd be ZS frames + 4 frames and that would be the duration of it, but it still is probably just fast enough that they would have to be really close for it to work, and even then they could SDI it. On the other hand, I don't know how long the flash from switching lasts, but it may last long enough to mask the fact that you're doing a Bullet Seed, making it harder to predict, and thus, making t harder to SDI, so it may have some use, just a pretty limited one.

 

[Zigsta]

maybe you are doing it wrong.

i dont have any problem rocksmashin or using Up B out of the z switch.

I think Magik's saying he can do all the B moves fine except for a normal B move, ie Bullet Seed and Flamethrower.

 

[Bestiarius]

Whch is where the rub is, right?

 

[Katakiri]

Something odd happened when I Z Switched today.

I was playing a Wario and z switched to Squirtle, but I've been z switching a lot in our set so he caught on to what I was doing and followed me onto the platform & used Bite. After he bit me, I had no jumps at all.
I haven't tested it since it happened, but just putting that out there.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

We need to use this thread.

 

[Bomber7]

lets discuss why we don't shall we?

 

[Kith]

To Hydrojab or To "True" Hydroplane? Which one do you like better? Porque?

 

[Asa]

True Hydroplane because you can do more stuff out of it.

 

[Zigsta]

I prefer Hydrojab over "true" HP. HP's fairly easy to punish against an enemy who knows the MU, whereas HJ can be canceled into other attacks.

 

[Dre89]

I know Toby's a fan of the true hydroplane so I just usually go with what he says.

By the way I beat Toby in a ditto, the fact he was using my controls and didn't know the buttons, therefore subsequently SDing because he didn't know how to recover had nothing to do with him losing at all.

But I did legitimately beat his sandbagging Mario with an Ivy usmash...never gonna live that down.

 

[Magik0722]

I like regular hydroplane more

true hydroplane takes too long

 

[Toby.]

I prefer Hydrojab over "true" HP. HP's fairly easy to punish against an enemy who knows the MU, whereas HJ can be canceled into other attacks.

Um, I'm not sure whether you understand what a true hydroplane is. A true hydroplane is the least punishable of all of them. It's not a regular hydroplaned smash attack

Dre: lol.

 

[Zigsta]

Um, I'm not sure whether you understand what a true hydroplane is. A true hydroplane is the least punishable of all of them. It's not a regular hydroplaned smash attack

Dre: lol.

Yeah, I had them mixed up. XD

 

[Kith]

Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but it seems like a perfect hydrojab goes farther than a true hydroplane. And it's easier for me to do lol

 

[Toby.]

If you jab whilst doing a true hydroplane it goes the same distance.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

True Hydroplane is like painting a fence.

It keeps you safe and give you something to do with your hangs.

 

[Kith]

Mmm refreshing invincibility on the ledge as squirtle owns a Diddy Kong who's recovering low. I loves it :-D

 

[T-block]

All Ivysaur needs is air speed like Squirtle's and he'd be a much much better character.

Anyone agree?

 

[Chuckles_KSU]

Squirtle's speed would make alot of characters much, much better.
I think a little extra damage and knockback on Bair would help just as much. Also, doing away with the fire weakness. :/

 

[Steeler]

i've been thinking this forever t-bag

man imagine nair with the ability to gtfo like wario

bair not being as situational

fair ******

not being so **** gimpable

aaaaaaaa oh, what could have been. i think i'm going to hack it onto my wii just to see what it's like

 

[Chuckles_KSU]

I don't really remember much about it, as it was many many months ago, but I think Ivysaur became pretty beastly in Brawl+. My brother downloaded it and had me try it with him. All I really remember though is Razorleaf being on rapidfire... Like, twice as fast or summat.

 

[T-block]

Forget about b-air doing crap damage.. it still works as a disruption. But the Wario still manages to get past my Ivysaur's wall no matter how hard I try. I mean...I know Wario has insane air speed, but his range is terrible, and a character design like Ivysaur should be able to keep that out. Not to mention baiting air dodges then hitting with u-air isn't as easy as it could be because half the characters can avoid the u-air even if they air dodge -_-

I really don't understand why Ivysaur would get the second slowest air speed in the game lol.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Wario Vs Ivysaur is an interesting match up, strangely enough though, I prefer to keep it in the air.


I find Bair to be really useful when I use it to disrupt peoples movement or hit them out of an aerial that they have already committed to.

 

[Kith]

Yay. If you pivot-up-b- tethercancel fast enough over the ledge, you kinda get stuck in the stage for a while. Useless funny looking AT. It's my new taunt XD

 

[Bestiarius]

The thing about Ivy's air game is, bair is amazing for spacing, nair has so little lag and is a decent spike, and the other three are crazy powerful. his air speed sucks, but his aerials are some of the moves powerful moves in the game. Poison Bulb Permutations x3 ftw.

 

[Steeler]

bair is not amazing for spacing. it is decent.

 

[Maniclysane]

It would be amazing if it knocked them back further than an inch.

 

[Steeler]

or didn't have ~30 frames of ending lag

 

[TheReflexWonder]

or didn't have ~30 frames of ending lag

It cancels on the ground quickly, though.

 

[Steeler]

It cancels on the ground quickly, though.

true, but that's what i'm talking about when i say it's more situational than a lot of other spacing moves. it's surprisingly punishable if you use it while you are rising. it's a good mix-up option but it's still disappointing imo.

 

[T-block]

Full-hop double b-air can be useful at times

It's pretty funny watching Ganondorf try to get past it safely lol

 

[Chuckles_KSU]

Speaking of Ganondorf, something interesting I learned today...

Ganon cannot hit a crouching Squirtle with ANY of his grounded attacks. Good way to force him into the air. XD

 

[T-block]

That's not entirely true... side-b, d-tilt, and I think dash attack can all connect. It does limit his options by a lot though. Dodging the wiz kick with a crouch is pretty funny

 

[Chuckles_KSU]

Doh, how did I forget about Dtilt... :/ I thought SideB and Dash attack would miss though. Then again, I'm presently judging from Ganon's Hitbubbles alone, having no access to a Wii for testing stuff until Friday. Sadness...

Also, an FSmash angled down will get you appearantly, but Squirtle's Dtilt beats that option.