Project M Social Thread Gold

[Bleck]

Rising Thunder seems to have done well. At least that's what people tell me.

rising thunder is doomed because of what I'm talking about, more or less - they simplified inputs (eg. no QCFs) but for some reason are incapable of understanding that frame-perfect timing stuff is the hardest thing for players to learn and deal with

there's already stuff where players are saying "this one character's one move is kind of dumb since it's invincible" and the creators/high level players are like "it has one frame of vulnerability!" and the players are like "yeah I'm done playing this game this is stupid", which is totally understandable

Traditional fighters have always had that huge barrier to entry, though, and it's pretty difficult to take away that barrier without significantly changing a lot of things that are very central to the game - like that tech skill.

like I've said a thousand times before in l-canceling arguments or whatever else, tech skill isn't what makes fighting games good, it's the mindgames

to those who'd disagree I say; if you want to be good at pressing buttons at the right time, go play stepmania or something, stop tainting fighting games with your sperglord nonsense

You're talking about the initial learning curve and intuition of actually grasping combos in regards to this. I don't particularly disagree with you on that either, I just don't think that point was made especially clear in your earlier posts. Your last sentence references what you said earlier but the full context makes complete sense. Admittedly, being a place where a lot of FG stuff is a given to me now makes it a lot easier to overlook all that so sometimes things need to be put into perspective.

You're not an unreasonable person. I think you struggle with making presumptions about perception that few others (especially in PMS where most of the members already understand intermediate to advanced FG knowledge) will share without it being stated otherwise.

I admittedly haven't slept for three days or so and if I'm being unclear I apologize I'm kind of definitely just throwing up words onto the screen here

What I always did for finding the timing of links such as ryu St.HK(stand hard kick) > St.LK(stand low kick) was to do St.HK then hold up after pressing the button. You will jump as soon as the HK is over. I do that a few times to get a rough idea of how long I need to wait before pressing the next button. I can usually get the timing down after about 5 mins. It's the best way I've figured out for getting timings down.

This is the exact same method I use to help people stop mashing buttons to get a link out and start timing then.

yeah see that's great advice and it's also the first good advice I've seen on how to practice stuff like that after posting about this topic on like six different forums and browsing "beginner guides" on youtube and stuff for hours not only trying to glean some stuff for myself but just trying to evaluate people's ability to teach whatever

most of which just ended up being "I dunno just get good lol kek kappa!!!"

Bleck does that a lot.

it's true

 

[GP&B]

I admittedly haven't slept for three days or so and if I'm being unclear I apologize I'm kind of definitely just throwing up words onto the screen here

All good, man. That's definitely some madness to be dealing with.

 

[standardtoaster]

I honestly don't remember the learning process I went through when learning street fighter in general. That jump timing trick was something I taught myself. If you've got other questions I can try to help and remember other tricks. I can tell you that the challenge (trial) mode in ultra really helped me a lot with the timing and mechanics of the game. Once SF5 gets the trial mode in March or whenever it will really help you a lot to go through them. For now it's just going to be a lot of time spent in training mode working on muscle memory for getting certain combo timings down.

 

[Kurri ★]

What other game mainly uses links for it's combos?

 

[~Dad~]

bleck u suck

 

[Soft Serve]

see the thing is, average human reaction time is around 15 frames-ish, assuming 60fps - I'm not exaggerating when I say that there's basically a lot of FGC people who can literally count frames after decades of practice, and that FG developers don't understand that most people can't ****in' do that

increasing the frame window by two frames really doesn't mean anything- the only reasonable way to make the game more physically accessible is a buffer, of probably like, ten frames, but if you start throwin' the b-word around people are gonna have mad tantrums

IIRC there are still "1 frame" links in SFV but there is larger amounts of buffer for inputs that makes the hardest intentional links 3 frames. I'm sure people will find 1 frame links eventually with specific special cancels or V-trigger activations in situations that were un-predictable

 

[Jolteon]

I would love to see Bleck try to learn an instrument.

 

[Kurri ★]

IIRC there are still "1 frame" links in SFV but there is larger amounts of buffer for inputs that makes the hardest intentional links 3 frames. I'm sure people will find 1 frame links eventually with specific special cancels or V-trigger activations in situations that were un-predictable

I could've sworn I heard somewhere that SFV's engine literally prevents anything from being below 3-frames.

I would love to see Bleck try to learn an instrument.

Well he does make music.

 

[Player -0]

Here's my take on it as a self taught kinda still beginner 3s player (I don't plan on getting into TFGs for real or anything)

For comboing stuff as long as there's like, a video example and stuff it should be okayish. People writing text on a forum is a pain because I have to figure out the abbreviations and then what move is what.

If there was something that told you whether you inputted the move too early or slow that would be amazing. Also if game like flashed when you needed to input. Actually just make training mode like dance dance revolution or something, that would be sick.

For fighting games having tech skill, I think fighting games are a combination of tech skill and mind games. There are other games for simply tech skill or mindgames. As long as the basic game is able to be played with good use of one and okay use of the other.

 

[standardtoaster]

The only thing similar are some combos that require you to walk a bit and then press the button. For example there's a combo with ryu that requires you to walk forward slightly and then press the button so when you cancel into shoryuken (aka dp) it will hit. If you don't walk forward then the dp won't hit.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Kurri ★

Certain characters in other fighters come to mind (Slayer from GG and Azrael from BB sprang into my head first) rely on links.

Honestly, I'm hoping Capcom delivers a robust tutorial for SFV that expands on what Bleck's talking about ("how exactly do I press buttons?"). I know they're goobers sometimes, but UltraChen had a pretty good discussion on this recently. They said one of its BIGGEST demerits was marketing this game for the casual side of things and not putting anything out there for that (before AND after launch). I kind of see where they're coming from; lotta stuff is/was predicated on the whole simpler system thing, SF4 jank gone, new stuff, etc. during presentations/showcases of the game. It's like they don't realize a whole new, completely inexperienced generation is coming into this.

And I'm pretty damn old school myself, too.

Smooth Criminal

 

[GP&B]

Unrelated but I just found out that Avengers 3 is going to be in two parts.


The **** outta here, Disney.

 

[Kurri ★]

Unrelated but I just found out that Avengers 3 is going to be in two parts.


The **** outta here, Disney.

I thought that was pretty well known.

I don't mind it, means more Infinity Wars (assuming that's what they're leading up to).

 

[Smooth Criminal]

And here I am hoping that Adam Warlock is even part of MCU (outside of an easter egg with The Collector), let alone involved in this take on Infinity Gauntlet/Wars.

Smooth Criminal

 

[standardtoaster]

The Ryu tutorial they put on youtube is pretty newbie friendly I think.

 

[Saito]

Bleck's perfect for a bait and punish.

He throws out a post that seems relatively safe to punish, but just like lucario, it cancels on hit and allows him to not only break your shield, but cause mad disrespect at the same time.

I'm always wary of that match-up. gotta respect those tools at his disposal.

I should just make this my signature at this point.

 

[shairn]

Bleck : Just go play chess or go or something.

EDIT: Actually learn to play Riichi Mahjong and play with me

 

[DrinkingFood]

This just in- learning things requires effort. Tonight at 5- some people suck at learning.

 

[Grey Belnades]

This just in- learning things requires effort. Tonight at 5- some people suck at learning.

Breaking news: local marine overcomes the odds once again.

 

[CORY]

nnnnope, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything

what does reaction time have to do with links?

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

What other game mainly uses links for it's combos?

for non-meter-related combos (which all use meter to cancel stuff into other stuff) kofxiii mainly uses links

 

[Yung Mei]

My fortune cookie told me that "You have strong spiritual powers. You should choose to develop them."

Now I shall not only look really really strong for the living, but also for the dead. Call me if you need an exorcist. I will cast out that demon with Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect.



Good choice. That way I won't have to body you for the third time when I could be spending the time boding some other nerd.

dont worry about me, i can go one event without 367-0'ing you

you need a break from the ass whoopin', wass gud

 

[Vashimus]

Kid Bleck: Mommy, could you tie my shoes for me?

Bleck's Mom: Now Bleck, I think you're old enough to learn how to tie your shoes by yourself.

Kid Bleck: Nope, too many steps, way too hard, nope nope nope nope hell naw

Bleck's Mom: Oh it won't be that bad! C'mon I can show you!

Kid Bleck: That's the problem. How the hell am I supposed to figure how my tie my shoes if someone didn't show me exactly how to tie it in the first place? Earning a Boy Scout badge in knot tying shouldn't be a prerequisite for putting on a basic article of clothing. It's an unnecessary execution barrier meant strictly for the drooling, mongoloid sperglords out there who think it's good design, and I refuse to give them the satisfaction by tying them.

Bleck's Mom: Uhhh...okay? Should I get you velcro shoes from now on?

Kid Bleck: ....With flashing lights please.

 

[Kurri ★]

Kid Bleck: Mommy, I can't tie my shoes. Could you tie them for me?

Bleck's Mom: Now Bleck, I think you're old enough that you'll have learn to tie shoes by yourself. C'mon, I'll show you.

Kid Bleck: Nope, too many steps, way too hard, nope nope nope nope hell naw

Bleck's Mom: Oh it won't be that bad! C'mon I can show you!

Kid Bleck: That's the problem. How the hell am I supposed to know how my tie my shoes if someone doesn't show me exactly how to tie it in the first place? Earning a Boy Scout badge in knot tying shouldn't be a prerequisite for putting on a basic article of clothing. It's an unnecessary execution barrier meant strictly for the drooling, mongoloid sperglords out there who think it's good design, and I refuse to give them the satisfaction by wearing them.

Bleck's Mom: Uhhh...okay. Should I get you velcro shoes from now on?

Kid Bleck: ....With flashing lights please.

That's a pretty basic ***** thing to do fam. Ridicule instead of discussing with the rest of us, for shame.

Thanks for the laugh though

 

[xquqx]

Kid Bleck: Mommy, I can't tie my shoes. Could you tie them for me?

Bleck's Mom: Now Bleck, I think you're old enough that you'll have learn to tie shoes by yourself. C'mon, I'll show you.

Kid Bleck: Nope, too many steps, way too hard, nope nope nope nope hell naw

Bleck's Mom: Oh it won't be that bad! C'mon I can show you!

Kid Bleck: That's the problem. How the hell am I supposed to know how my tie my shoes if someone doesn't show me exactly how to tie it in the first place? Earning a Boy Scout badge in knot tying shouldn't be a prerequisite for putting on a basic article of clothing. It's an unnecessary execution barrier meant strictly for the drooling, mongoloid sperglords out there who think it's good design, and I refuse to give them the satisfaction by wearing them.

Bleck's Mom: Uhhh...okay. Should I get you velcro shoes from now on?

Kid Bleck: ....With flashing lights please.

That's basically how my learning to tie shoes went. Now I just wear exclusively flip flops.

 

[standardtoaster]

i wear slipon shoes because tying shoes takes way too long. get at me

 

[Bazkip]

Beast 6 PM bracket is going on now
http://www.hitbox.tv/projectmeurope

Brackets: http://smash.gg/beast6/brackets

 

[Soft Serve]

I tied my shoes bunny ears style until like 8 months ago

 

[Vashimus]

That's a pretty basic ***** thing to do fam. Ridicule instead of discussing with the rest of us, for shame.

Thanks for the laugh though

You and I both know Bleck couldn't care less about a random guy on the Internet ridiculing him, which wasn't the intention anyway, just poking a bit of fun. I'll give actual thoughts later when I have the time.

Btw Kurri if you wanted a stick that bad, you could've just came over and borrowed mine. Jeez...

 

[Kurri ★]

You and I both know Bleck couldn't care less about a random guy on the Internet ridiculing him, which wasn't the intention anyway, just poking a bit of fun. I'll give actual thoughts later when I have the time.

Maybe Bleck just needs a little tender love & care. Come on Bleckie-poo~ Give momma some sugar.

Btw Kurri if you wanted a stick that bad, you could've just came over and borrowed mine. Jeez...

Can I borrow it forever? I'll give it back when I die.

I've just been checking Mad Catz's twitter to see if the winners were announced. How long does this **** take? Six button fighters are not acceptable on DS4's

 

[CORY]

my white skinny jeans, which are my hange cosplay pants, are precariously close to not fitting.

i consider this a victory, while also being worried that my thighs won't fit in them come a-kon time...

 

[Draco_The]

 

[Jolteon]

my white skinny jeans, which are my hange cosplay pants, are precariously close to not fitting.

i consider this a victory, while also being worried that my thighs won't fit in them come a-kon time...

wtf, this is not a victory, skinny jeans are the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Bleck]

I would love to see Bleck try to learn an instrument.

like Kurri said, I'm a musician, I know how to play several instruments; learning how to play them is made possible by visual (being able to identify the positions of my hands) and audio (being able to hear the correct sound) feedback, and being able to apply these to music is generally aided by sheet music, tabs, or at the very least a general chord progression

what I'm saying is that learning to do links has like barely one of those (visual feedback)

Bleck : Just go play chess or go or something.

EDIT: Actually learn to play Riichi Mahjong and play with me

okay

what does reaction time have to do with links?

see earlier posts

 

[CORY]

the victory is that my bulking is actually starting to work, tho. finally got hamstrings so my legs are getting bigger. i've had some problems with a shirt that was really well fitted not fitting pretty much at all after i ate dinner one night.

hopefully some of this goes away after i cut some fat, but i really don't want to deal with buying another pair of pants and sewing in belt loops on the legs at the last minute.

see earlier posts

so, nothing.

 

[Bleck]

did you learn to argue from some meatheads at the gym, bub

 

[Player -0]

bub

*gasp*

Bleck is actually Wolverine.

also why do you need visual cues when you can feel your hands.

*gasp*

Bleck is actually Wolverine with leprosy (healing factor? pshh).

 

[CORY]

did you learn to argue from some meatheads at the gym, bub

no, learned from you.

*flippant dismissal to hide my shame*

 

[Bleck]

also why do you need visual cues when you can feel your hands.

same reason it's not possible to learn to play guitar if you can't hear what you're doing

no, learned from you.

*flippant dismissal to hide my shame*

what have I doooooooooone

 

[CORY]

you only asked yourself "can i do this" not "should i do this". the monster is now out of your control. it's out of everyone's control.