Q&A [Q&A + FAQ] Clown Car 101 - Bowser Jr and The Koopalings

[Gatlin]

Guide: http://smashboards.com/guides/koopa-kid-circus-general-bowser-jr-guide.19/​

 

[Gatlin]

Reserved for FAQ.

 

[Rizen]

Is this a stupid question?
/just kidding.

I don't have the 3DS version and I was wondering how well do you guys think the Koopalings will fare competitively?
What are their best and worst MUs?
Strengths and shortcomings?

Thanks. When I get the Wii U version I might learn them.

 

[Exegguter]

Is this a stupid question?
/just kidding.

I don't have the 3DS version and I was wondering how well do you guys think the Koopalings will fare competitively?
What are their best and worst MUs?
Strengths and shortcomings?

Thanks. When I get the Wii U version I might learn them.

Short answer.

I'm betting low high tier or high mid tier. Deff. not top tier though.

Jr. has some hard match-ups (Rosalina, Zss). But also some really easy ones (Little Mac, Ganondorf).

Pros (short):
- great zoning game
- great aireals
- awesome combo potential
- very good recovery
- good gimping skills

Cons(short):
- No quick moves for his back (very annoying) characters that roll behind you are hard to punish imo
- has difficulty killing/getting in against some characters.

 

[Skymin50]

Found some interesting stuff in terms of Clown Kart combos.

Side-B > jump > Nair at low percent, at a little higher Side-B > Fair is possible.

Mid percent, Side-B > jump >Uair, pretty good

High percent (80% last I checked) Side-B > jump > Uair > Up-B > Hammer

KOs Mario at 80%. With heavier characters like Bowser it kills at around 100%, but I'm not too positive. Even if they airdodge it you still get some nice damage on them.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

What kind of playstyle does Bowser Jr. have?
Rushing down with blades and boxing gloves or camping with cannons and Koopas?
I mostly just roll around poking opponents with my fork, but it's ineffective and boring imo.

 

[ndayday]

I wouldn't say he's a rushdown character but he's not exactly campy either as his projectiles are more about punishing/ledgeguarding and stage control (cannonball and mkoopa, respectively). You have to space well with him I find and punish on stage game with fork/jab/dtilt working towards getting them offstage for a gimp. Against good recoveries you have to get them into a position where you can kill, hence the problem a lot of people seem to have in not being able to kill with Jr.

 

[munkus beaver]

The fact that he has three jumps with the clown car. And the clown car resets on hit like the mothership drop, he has EXCELLENT recovery. With proper WoP, he will be decent. Clown car canceling gives lots of options and can close the gap on anyone who isn't packing easy projectiles. And his bombling can sneak up from behind after a grab or while they are distracted and open up combo chances.

And after a clown car hit, you can use up air two-three times based on their vectoring. That is 0-40% right there. The trouble I tend to have, since I don't have a c stick to work with, is using his aerials in a WoP manner or using the. To finish his opponent. Koopa's best kill move is his recovery hammer, and you can see that coming from a mike away.

Basically, lack of kill moves hurt an otherwise solid character, but the advent of CStick will at least let him chase offstage effectively with the best recovery bar a multiple jump floater.

 

[ndayday]

He doesn't have 3 jumps, jumping out of kart uses his second jump.

 

[Exegguter]

He doesn't have 3 jumps, jumping out of kart uses his second jump.

Jump, jump, kart jump = 3

 

[Rizen]

So it's ground jump, midair jump, upB like most of the cast?

 

[munkus beaver]

No no no no, again, jump, air jump, clown car cancel jump, THEN he can up B. The clown car cancel jump in midair does NOTHING but prevent you from using the clown car again. HOWEVER, if you use the clown car cancel BEFORE your midair jump, you lose it forever. I am pretty certain you get both the abandon ship option AND the clown car cancel jump if you are hit during recovery, but I have not tested it thoroughly to be consistent. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't.

 

[Cherubas]

Short answer.

I'm betting low high tier or high mid tier. Deff. not top tier though.

Jr. has some hard match-ups (Rosalina, Zss). But also some really easy ones (Little Mac, Ganondorf).

Pros (short):
- great zoning game
- great aireals
- awesome combo potential
- very good recovery
- good gimping skills

Cons(short):
- No quick moves for his back (very annoying) characters that roll behind you are hard to punish imo
- has difficulty killing/getting in against some characters.

Can you explain a bit to me about the "awesome combo potential"? I've been caught in Mario up tilts, seen Diddy Kong down throw into the free aerial of his choice, and even suffered Ganondorf's you-better-time-your-tech choke drop into down tilt combo, but the only thing I've experienced with Bj so far that's combo-like is the kart hop into an aerial. It's true that that's a nice combo when you actually get it (though I feel like spinning out is more effective and, sadly, even safer in most cases than trying to do this combo) but it really doesn't feel like any of the rest of Bj's stuff comes together very well. Up tilts are okay at low percentages and the rare times you get a clown car explosion into solo Bj hammer are really satisfying, but for me it feels like that's the end of his "awesome combo potential", and that's not really enough for me to think he stands out from the rest of the cast in the combo department.

Bj is my favorite of all Nintendo characters, so I very very much want to play the character to the absolute limit of his capabilities, so if you know of other combos that work often or, preferably, are guaranteed, please let me know.

In return maybe I could help you with your Zss issue, cause I really don't find her to be a hard opponent for Bj.

 

[Exegguter]

Can you explain a bit to me about the "awesome combo potential"? I've been caught in Mario up tilts, seen Diddy Kong down throw into the free aerial of his choice, and even suffered Ganondorf's you-better-time-your-tech choke drop into down tilt combo, but the only thing I've experienced with Bj so far that's combo-like is the kart hop into an aerial. It's true that that's a nice combo when you actually get it (though I feel like spinning out is more effective and, sadly, even safer in most cases than trying to do this combo) but it really doesn't feel like any of the rest of Bj's stuff comes together very well. Up tilts are okay at low percentages and the rare times you get a clown car explosion into solo Bj hammer are really satisfying, but for me it feels like that's the end of his "awesome combo potential", and that's not really enough for me to think he stands out from the rest of the cast in the combo department.

Bj is my favorite of all Nintendo characters, so I very very much want to play the character to the absolute limit of his capabilities, so if you know of other combos that work often or, preferably, are guaranteed, please let me know.

In return maybe I could help you with your Zss issue, cause I really don't find her to be a hard opponent for Bj.

Top of my head:


Low percentages;
car, dair, bair (does like 39%)
utilt, utilt, usmash
utilt, utilt, uair
usmash, uair (wait for airdodge -> uair again)

Others
uair, jump nair
Car, upb
car jump, nair/uair
Utilt, uair
(last hits of) dair, fsmash
Dair, fair/bair
(last hit of) dair, dash usmash
mechakoopa explode/any aireal
Upb (hit with car), hammer
mechakoopa throw (item) from above, fair/bair
uthrow, combos (not sure needs testing, but seems like you can combo into it at a higher %)

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

What stages should I pick when playing as Bowser Jr in tournament style selection?

 

[IsmaR]

Yoshi's Island is cool since you can drop Mechakoopas on the platform, restricting/discouraging them to not jump (and if you time if right, you can pop the opponent up into them, or you can jump up and grab them yourself). Additionally you can hit through it with Up Smash when it sinks/tilts to one side.

 

[SSS]

Down B
Follow with Side B
Down B hits them up, jump out of side B and hit them and catch Down B with aerial
Throw down-B
Up B to UpB attack
Profit

Someone tell me the names of all the specials?

 

[Cherubas]

I think you got your side B and your down B mixed up in a few places.

 

[IsmaR]

Down B
Follow with Side B
Down B hits them up, jump out of side B and hit them and catch side-B with aerial
Throw side-B
Up B to UpB attack
Profit

Someone tell me the names of all the specials?

= Clown Cannon (commonly called Cannonball)
= Clown Kart Dash (Kart Jump and Kart Spin-out refer to specific maneuvers)
= Abandon Ship (air hit has no name, commonly called Hammer Swing for simplicity)
= Mechakoopa

 

[SSS]

= Clown Cannon (commonly called Cannonball)
= Clown Kart Dash (Kart Jump and Kart Spin-out refer to specific maneuvers)
= Abandon Ship (air hit has no name, commonly called Hammer Swing for simplicity)
= Mechakoopa

Thanks!

I think you got your side B and your down B mixed up in a few places.

Whoopsie.

 

[munkus beaver]

What stages should I pick when playing as Bowser Jr in tournament style selection?

If your opponent has a better ranged game than you, you want a lot of ledges to maximize your air game. If they have no ranged game, Omega and Yoshi's Story. Mechakoopas can hit people hanging onto the ledge after their invincibility frames wear off, and the cannon can be used to hit someone off the stage since it uniquely falls after flying a distance. I've hit someone on the ledge with it by using JUST the right charge. I've also hit someone below the stage in an area I wouldn't dream of chasing by having the ball trajectory fall on top of them.

Spamming mechakoopas works in conjuntion with your klown kart and you need to drop them in front and behind you. The less predictable you are with your mechs the better, because they can be picked up and thrown. Of course, you can throw them as well. Alternate between dash attacks, clown charges, clown cancels, air game, and your surprisingly well rounded ground game and you can rack up damage. Killing is the big issue, and that is mainly a point of using one of your smashes, a cannonball, your up b, or the hammer after the up b. One of the most reliable ways to kill is up b out of shield. the ship stuns them then blows them up, killing at regular percents.

 

[Blanc]

after playing someone once or twice, I always seem to get figured out and they play around my style.
(usually I go for mechakoopa into clowncar and aerials) How can I switch up my style so that they can't just interrupt my clown car over and over and over again?

 

[BBNik]

Jump earlier or just spin out for a ground attack. Mix it up with the spin or a jump into neutral or a jump into d-air or a jump into mechakoopa

 

[HammerHappy]

What weight class is Jr. in? I know he's as heavy as Zard but I'm not sure if that's medium or heavy weight.

 

[Rizen]

What weight class is Jr. in? I know he's as heavy as Zard but I'm not sure if that's medium or heavy weight.

Smash doesn't have weight categories like Mario Kart but that probably would land in heavy weight. See here for specifics:
http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-weight-rankings.367479/

 

[Exegguter]

Okay guys, how do you handle rolling in this game? It's ****ing stupid. I've had matches where people literally just roll instead of walk and there was minor lag and I coulnd't punish ANYTHING. Rolling is so stupid in this game smh.

Also, who do you guys recommend for a second? I was thinking sheik/greninja because they get in easy against range heavy characters like rosaluma but idk?

 

[Sudai]

Get better at timing. Rolling is super easy to punish.

 

[Thor]

Skip to the bottom for my main question - I'm just outlining what happened:

While this may be only a thread for those playing AS Bowser Junior (At which point, sorry, wrong thread), how do I deal with Bowser Jr.'s side+B. I played a guy and almost all he did was throw down the mecha koopa, then side+B in - he could either jump out of it early, or ram my shield which seemed to pop him up out of grab range. As a result, if I ever tried to swing at him, he'd just jump away and set another of those mecha koopa mines (or whatever they are), that interfere with me approaching just enough to make it somewhat tricky.

After the match his friends told me that it was shield-grabbable by fast (non-tether) characters on hitting the shield, but he essentially camped me with this the whole match - it was infuriating because I couldn't seem to intercept it effectively (since he'd just run away) and the mecha koopa thing kept shield pressure on.

So... how would I deal with this? I couldn't seem to do much of anything as Pikachu (t-jolt is too slow to do it reliably - his mecha koopa mine will beat me out, and if I jumped out of shield he'd jump away - but he has some good range with his aerials so sometimes he'd just jump right at me and attack), and as Link I kept throwing bombs and boomerangs to stuff it (eventually finding myself unable to KO him...). I tried ZSS which would have worked if an SD on Prism Tower hadn't occurred (Halberd syndrome or whatever with the up+B - got to last hits though), but I don't even know what actually worked (it seemed like SH fair... maybe...).

In short:
- What are my options for dealing with this clown kart (Side+B) abuse, in part combined with down+B to limit approaches? Put out a SH hitbox? Shieldgrab (if the mecha koopa isn't there)? Attempting constant mid/close-range pressure to stuff it? Other strategies (dash attack? Calling them out with smash attacks doesn't seem to work, except possibly ZSS dsmash of those I played. Could I shine the mecha koopa as Fox or Falco and reflect it? Also, can I pick that thing up?)?

P.S: This guy got beat in grand finals by a Jigglypuff (which in retrospect makes sense - Jiggs just jumps over it, and Peach could do so as well). I am reasonably comfortable with MK and would certainly be fine picking up a character to deal with this strategy (Peach was suggested by one of his friends as well). Is there a character that Bowser Junior struggles with (or can't use this strategy on) that may be worth picking up (at least until I improve enough to just beat them with other characters - I feel like this strategy isn't sustainable long-term, but it was my first experience playing people offline, and I'd never faced a Bowser Junior before)?

I haven't decided on a main yet anyway, so I could certainly just main this new character choice too [although if I don't like them I'll just have to apply the other advice given].

EDIT: I've heard you can SDI fsmash. Is this true? If so, do you SDI straight out, or upward (or some other direction)? And should I be airdodging or jumping to escape the hammer when he uses up+B to follow me high (or is there some true combo that allows him to land the hammer from up+B? I couldn't seem to escape it but that was quite possibly me just being bad)?

Double edit: I've also read a lot that Bowser Jr., if hit after using up+B, can't do so again - but was that not my experience at all? As Pikachu, I nair'd him offstage after using his up+B, but he was able to up+B again back to the stage - and at 4:50 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68uw_jp9r14, it's clear that Bowser Jr. gets the clown cart back after being hit before landing. Is there a specific time to hit him out of his up+B where he can't land again or what?

 

[BBNik]

It depends. I believe it depends on the amount of knockback you do. If you do a strong hit, he can get it back, if it isn't strong, he can't? That's what if feels like, and he will always get the car back before landing, hit or not

 

[IReidYou]

Some people were speculating it can be how early you get hit outta your up b, but it mostly feels relative to weak-kockback moves crippling him. Mash airdodge when you can

 

[Exegguter]

Turn around and shield. If he jumps -> nair/usmash (as fox/pika). If he doesn't shieldgrab as he will land in front of you.

Good jr. won't obviously just cart into you. Only for punishment/mixups.

 

[Kit Cal-N]

I'm not sure if you have experienced it, but occasionally a jump during side-B will result it going as high as full jump + double jump.

It definitely happens when you jump while your opponent perfect shields.
It HAS happened if I started the move in the air and jump during the landing bounce animation.

 

[ndayday]

are you footstooling the opponent?

 

[Thor]

Turn around and shield. If he jumps -> nair/usmash (as fox/pika). If he doesn't shieldgrab as he will land in front of you.

Good jr. won't obviously just cart into you. Only for punishment/mixups.

It was the same "mixup" the whole time (I was playing a guessing game as to whether he'd run into me and jump after hitting my shield, come close and tomehawk or aerial my shield, or if he'd jump out far away and relay the mine), but this is helpful. Thanks.

 

[Exegguter]

It was the same "mixup" the whole time (I was playing a guessing game as to whether he'd run into me and jump after hitting my shield, come close and tomehawk or aerial my shield, or if he'd jump out far away and relay the mine), but this is helpful. Thanks.

Yeah just turn your back against him and shield. React on what he does:
- jumpcancel -> Nair /usmash
- spinout/nothing -> shieldgrab

It's the same way you punish jiggs her rollout

 

[Thor]

Yeah just turn your back against him and shield. React on what he does:
- jumpcancel -> Nair /usmash
- spinout/nothing -> shieldgrab

It's the same way you punish jiggs her rollout

I actually just jump over Jiggs and then run at her, since rollout has actual endlag but you can JC the cart.

And his aerials seem to outrange most of the aerials of who I was playing prior (Pikachu's aerials don't get there). But I'll keep the similarity in mind.

 

[ndayday]

@ Kit Cal-N I merged your thread with this thread btw

 

[Kit Cal-N]

It depends. I believe it depends on the amount of knockback you do. If you do a strong hit, he can get it back, if it isn't strong, he can't? That's what if feels like, and he will always get the car back before landing, hit or not

Just press A after being hit.

 

[Raider 88]

I'm coming to introduce myself I suppose. My Mii name is Mr. Bubble in FG, my Koopaling of choice is Ludwig, and I'm currently cycling between Ludwig, ROB, and Shulk.

I've had a lot of success lately with Ludwig, but I've noticed that I very seldomly use the cannonball. When I do use it, it's when an opponent is off stage as a mix-up. When an opponent is offstage, I generally prefer gimping with aerials, or sometimes going deep for the kill. When an opponent is on stage, I feel like it's way too slow and predictable to use.

My question is, what sort of uses are we finding for cannonball?

 

[Usopp]

I've been playing bowser jr since day1 and honestly I love the cannon ball. It's slow but I enjoy moments where I can sneak one in. Because how awesome is shooting fox to the chest with a cannonball? Lol

Also like you've said my most successful use of it is for edge guarding and even then it's not free it's all about the timing. And your right it is slow and punishable the only times I've been able to use it are on yoshi island and battlefield or any stage with platforms.
or I use the cannonball in the beginning of the game. Right after the 3 2 1 go I start charging it lol.