Ridley deserves better

[ｐｓ＿]

Ok I really don't know why you continue to play the character then. You complained about how bad he was in your own thread and your still complaining about him here. Stop playing the character then, other people are finding success with him. As you said, he'll always be a bad character to you, so it might be time to choose a new main.

Who's finding success with this character? Everywhere I look he's competing against other poor characters in Weenie Hut Jr.'s, or people are dropping him because he's junk.

 

[The Event Mask]

Who's finding success with this character? Everywhere I look he's competing against other poor characters in Weenie Hut Jr.'s, or people are dropping him because he's junk.

I don't know, Trela, he won two tournaments with him and someone else I don't know their name but they place second in an European tournament with him.
Even if you still don't find that impressive, the fact still remains that you should switch mains if he's that bad.

 

[Gleam]

Trela won a 300 participant tournament using Ridley in "TGC Returns."

Trela also won a 177 participant tournament using only Ridley in "Ultimate Shockwave 2"

Vreyus got 2nd place primarily using Ridley in a 238 participant tournament using only Ridley in "Valhalla II"

Greward has found success with Ridley

Locus has found success with Ridley

Sorry to say but it sounds like you just suck with the character. It's very clear you never bothered to learn a thing of what people taught you those many weeks or months ago last topic. Others have and they have found immense satisfaction and victory with Ridley. That or if you did do any kind of changes, you lost to a Pichu or some character who does indeed have a significant advantage over Ridley and automatically turned that into "Ridley must be bad."

You can proclaim Ridley is bad all you want but as long as Ridley continues to show results, that ideology doesn't really mean much.

Results will always speak louder than words. As others have said, maybe you should just switch Mains if you haven't already and meanwhile, those who actually know how to utilize Ridley correctly will continue to main him. In fact, why don't you proclaim that same statement in the Official Competitive Character Thread? Explain to people why Ridley is such a horrible character that isn't showing results and is being dropped by so many people?

https://smashboards.com/threads/competitive-character-impressions-2-0.464762/page-54

Here's the thread right here.

 

[ｐｓ＿]

Trela won a 300 participant tournament using Ridley in "TGC Returns."

Trela also won a 177 participant tournament using only Ridley in "Ultimate Shockwave 2"

Vreyus got 2nd place primarily using Ridley in a 238 participant tournament using only Ridley in "Valhalla II"

Greward has found success with Ridley

Locus has found success with Ridley

Sorry to say but it sounds like you just suck with the character. It's very clear you never bothered to learn a thing of what people taught you those many weeks or months ago last topic. Others have and they have found immense satisfaction and victory with Ridley. That or if you did do any kind of changes, you lost to a Pichu or some character who does indeed have a significant advantage over Ridley and automatically turned that into "Ridley must be bad."

You can proclaim Ridley is bad all you want but as long as Ridley continues to show results, that ideology doesn't really mean much.

Results will always speak louder than words. As others have said, maybe you should just switch Mains if you haven't already and meanwhile, those who actually know how to utilize Ridley correctly will continue to main him. In fact, why don't you proclaim that same statement in the Official Competitive Character Thread? Explain to people why Ridley is such a horrible character that isn't showing results and is being dropped by so many people?

https://smashboards.com/threads/competitive-character-impressions-2-0.464762/page-54

Here's the thread right here.

Early tournament results mean nothing. We went sixth months into Brawl before anybody recognized how broken Metaknight was. More pertinently, even with those early results Ridley sits at the bottom-mid of nearly every tier list in existence.

 

[meleebrawler]

Early tournament results mean nothing. We went sixth months into Brawl before anybody recognized how broken Metaknight was. More pertinently, even with those early results Ridley sits at the bottom-mid of nearly every tier list in existence.

If early stuff means nothing, doesn't that also mean your impressions could be totally wrong too?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd argue that early majors are pretty indicative.

I mean, Diddy and Sheik were already at the top of the food chain in Smash 4 by now.

 

[ｐｓ＿]

If early stuff means nothing, doesn't that also mean your impressions could be totally wrong too?

Like I said: unless some genius finds a way to abuse Ridley that uses none of his "proper" mechanics, he could be the best character in the game. Maybe some could find a way to make down-B hit six million times. Who knows?

But as of right now I agree with M2K and every tier list: he's underwhelming, gimpy, easy to read and a poor choice of character.

 

[ｐｓ＿]

Double post

 

[Gleam]

Dude, everyone and their dead grandmother knew how broken Meta Knight was in Brawl. There wasn't a single moment people were going on about how broken Meta Knight was in the game. The moment the game came out, peope were proclaiming MK so broken he had to be banned. He was 1st place in every Tier List ongoing and continued to rise up from there. The game literally hadn't come out yet and there was talk about how awesome MK was and it never changed.

Brawl Meta Knight was so damn good, people were playing Smash 64 and people were talking about how broken as fart this character was.

You're going to tell me with a straight face that nobody realized MK was the most broken character in Smash history until after 6 months of playing? You sir, are out of your mind.

 

[The Event Mask]

Dude, everyone and their dead grandmother knew how broken Meta Knight was in Brawl. There wasn't a single moment people were going on about how broken Meta Knight was in the game. The moment the game came out, peope were proclaiming MK so broken he had to be banned. He was 1st place in every Tier List ongoing and continued to rise up from there. The game literally hadn't come out yet and there was talk about how awesome MK was and it never changed.

Brawl Meta Knight was so damn good, people were playing Smash 64 and people were talking about how broken as fart this character was.

You're going to tell me with a straight face that nobody realized MK was the most broken character in Smash history until after 6 months of playing? You sir, are out of your mind.

Don't worry about what this guy is saying anymore. I'm convinced he's a troll, he said he mains Ridley in his thread yet says he's one of the worst characters in the game. No one mains a character if they think that character is soooo bad.

 

[Reila]

As an Isabelle main, a fighter who has not one, not two, but three situational specials, not to mention having super short range normals and being super light and easy to K.O., and I don't think she is that bad, I look at this person complaining about Ridley being bad and all I can think is "really now?".

Ridley is great IMO.

Don't worry about what this guy is saying anymore. I'm convinced he's a troll, he said he mains Ridley in his thread yet says he's one of the worst characters in the game. No one mains a character if they think that character is soooo bad.

That is not how it works. You can think a fighter is bad and still main them because you just really like the fighter despite they being bad. Not everyone flocks towards the best fighters just because they are good.

 

[The Event Mask]

That is not how it works. You can think a fighter is bad and still main them because you just really like the fighter despite they being bad. Not everyone flocks towards the best fighters just because they are good.

It's one thing to complain that the character isn't in the best shape, I want some buffs for Ridley, but this guy dismisses pretty much everything about Ridley. It's obvious he doesn't enjoy the character so why continue to main him. I mained Ganondorf since melee and wasn't focused on only the bad things, I played the character and enjoyed him. Yea I wish Ganon wasn't bottom tier in Brawl and in smash 4 but I saw the positives in him and enjoyed that aspect.

 

[Great Potato]

That is not how it works. You can think a fighter is bad and still main them because you just really like the fighter despite they being bad. Not everyone flocks towards the best fighters just because they are good.

That's true, but I think it's important that one has fun with the character they choose to main, character loyalty can only take you so far if you don't enjoy who you play as. Writing off the character as a complete dumpster fire isn't a mentality that helps anyone and if that's how one feels on a certain character then there's plenty of other options on the roster to choose from, that's not how people usually refer to fighters they really like.

Keep in mind he's not just being demeaning towards the character but the entire community whose been working to bring out the potential of the character and achieve good results when he makes comments about how the only people who could have any praise him are scrubs who won a few matches in bottom ranks of quickplay, nobody wants to have to entertain something like that.

 

[ALiBi212]

You’ve got pretty strong opinions on a character who’s already been seen in tourney grand finals multiple times.

 

[Toyamasmash]

Your salty, met one at 3.3 yesterday they plaid a unreal skill level Ridley you just need to get good. It’s fully doable

You’ve got pretty strong opinions on a character who’s already been seen in tourney grand finals multiple times.

How do we know anybody good was in all these so called tournaments?

 

[ALiBi212]

How do we know anybody good was in all these so called tournaments?

Watch the gameplay for yourself. There are some very good Ridley matches. One even against Ally, who is without a doubt a top tier player.

 

[Jandlebars]

Early tournament results mean nothing. We went sixth months into Brawl before anybody recognized how broken Metaknight was. More pertinently, even with those early results Ridley sits at the bottom-mid of nearly every tier list in existence.

In a previous post, you just asked who is getting success with the character. When give evidence, you shift the goal-posts to say that ‘early results don’t matter’ when *you yourself* are placing huge emphasis on early impressions of the character.
Moreover, you are not holding a conversation or even providing counter-points to the rest of the posters in this thread who are providing alternative view-points that may help improve your own results with Ridley.

I honestly don’t even know why you are posting here if you don’t want to learn; you’re not providing constructive conversation and are stuck in your own perspective.

 

[IsmaR]

The user causing problems is gone now, not that it was worth replying to any of their points to try and convince them of anything anyway.

We're not going to police anyone's opinions, if you're unsatisfied with a character/playstyle/elements of the game period, that's fine. But show it in a respectful manner, with actual proof/statements back by actual arguments besides "I'm right because I say I'm right." The statements such as "who was even at ____ tournament?" and "early tourneys don't matter" are completely ignorant. All the results posted above were are events with several hundred people. Just because you've not heard of a player/don't know about a scene you're unfamiliar with (Greward/Treyvus both being in Europe) does not mean you can just discredit all the work they've put in to get as far as they did.

Resorting to insults will not tolerated. That all said, I suggest people move on.

 

[Toyamasmash]

Watch the gameplay for yourself. There are some very good Ridley matches. One even against Ally, who is without a doubt a top tier player.

So some big names in tournaments would be good wording, but 4 real I live in Japan and I have seen some extremely scary ridleys out there

 

[$.A.F.]

Maybe the problem is not Ridley, but your approach to playing him.

Maybe he does deserve better. However, that is irrelevant considering they will not change his kit. Maybe numbers at most.

A special attack doesn't need to have constant usage. Personally I am fine with his neutral B being used mostly for edge guarding. It is basically what I use the Inkling's down B (the splat bomb) for most of the time anyways, so maybe I am biased. Try playing Ridley as a tilt/aerials/smash attacks oriented fighter instead of one that relies heavily on specials such as... Duck Hunt, maybe? Or zones in general.

Just enjoy him and try to do the best you can with the tools you were given. I say this as someone who played stuff like Bowser Jr in Smash 4, and has Pichu as a for fun pocket pick. So I am used to play fighters who are actually actively bad unlike Ellen Ridley.

Since when is PICHU bad? That aside, this applies not only to Ridley, but every fighter. Enjoy them and work hard if you want success.

 

[IronWarrior94]

That is not how it works. You can think a fighter is bad and still main them because you just really like the fighter despite they being bad. Not everyone flocks towards the best fighters just because they are good.

I don't know about that. Based on the replies here and his old topic, it sounds like ps _ not only thinks Ridley is bad but also hates playing as him. Most players who main bad characters usually admit they still find enjoyment in playing them. ps_ so far has not alluded to even a tiny grain of positive experience with Ridley. Why he's truly forcing himself to associate with a character that's clearly a pain for him to play as is anyone's guess.
Edit: Welp, just realized he got banned, so we'll likely never know. Though I admit looking at his post history, I can see how this ban was probably long coming(pro-tip: Don't insult and ridicule other fanbases).

 

[Dcas]

As time passes by, i can certainly say Ridley is an above average fighter, he is not as good as some people paints him nor as bad. His tilts are excelent, his nair is godlike, his fair despite being laggy lasts forever and most important his ledge trapping and edgeguarding could be top 10 in the game.

The bad part comes with his MASSIVE size, his hurtboxes are giantic, his dair is useless and so is his DB. His moves are a bit laggy but functional.

I think that if ridley got some buffs he might actually be a great character.

This dair needs to have either some armor, being cancel-able, reducen lag and bigger hitbox.

The DB right now deals massive damage but thats it, you get nothing out of it and landing it is already incredibly hard, either make it do less damage but way faster and being less laggy or something silly like landing after 130% is instakill.

 

[Great Potato]

The DB right now deals massive damage but thats it, you get nothing out of it and landing it is already incredibly hard, either make it do less damage but way faster and being less laggy or something silly like landing after 130% is instakill.

If you consider truckloads of satisfaction, massive style points, and the demoralization of your opponent as getting nothing out of it then I suppose you'd be right.

 

[StrayDevilFox]

A.Why is his recovery so bad? For a character with wings you think he will have a recovery like pit but nope. He only gets 2 jumps which makes no sense at all he should at least get 3 or 4 & his up b can’t be angled diagonally so if he’s off stage most of the time he’s screwed why does king k rool have a better recovery than a character with wings?

B. His neutral b is a disappointment. Out of all projectiles his is one of the worst. It takes a while to charge it and can be easily jumped over,shielded,and reflected. And it’s knockback is pitiful. It literally won’t even kill somebody in sudden death. What’s the point of using this move?

C. And finally his down b is probably one of the worst moves in the game. I remember everyone seen the trailer thought this move will be op but realized it’s dog****. It’s only good when you hit somebody in the incredibly small and hard sweet spot and it has tons of startup time and end lag. I don’t know if you’re forced to do a normal getup or you can roll if you get hit by it but it’s still no excuse on how bad this move is.

My suggestions for some buffs will be make him have 3 or 4 jumps and allow his up b to be angled. Make his neutral b have some knockback and can actually kill or something. And make his down b faster to punish targets with it. (Sorry for bad English)

I can see the difficulty in playing Ridley and here are some of the considerable changes I believe would benefit a bit more to his gameplay:

1) Change the launch angle of his normal down air. If not make the down air sweet box bigger so that it's more consistent to being a true spike, then maybe they should at least change the angle at which the opponent is launched to be more horizontal and at a lower angle with maybe less knockback to compensate. This would help to maybe the set-up for more of Ridley's pressure game with his plasma ball attacks and make it a bit more challenging for characters to get back on stage. Too many times have I been in matches where I land a down air on opponents only for them to be shot back up vertically enough for them to DI back on stage at high percentages.

2) Change the angle of the plasma balls. I saw this throughout the forums for Ridley and also thought it might be a good idea to implement. This allow a player to limitedly change angles of plasmas would also help to keep other players on their toes about how to approach Ridley and punish the opponent more for making good reads when going for overheads. Also making the launch of maybe 1 or 2 plasma balls a bit faster would definitely help with more of his pressure game.

3) Change the angle of his side-B. While side-B is more viable for a kill move at high percentages, a good change might be in order for Ridley players who end the move early where the Ridley players recover a little quicker in the air or somewhere along those lines so that way he can set up for a bit more plasma pressure. Ridley already somewhat automatically DI's toward the thrown character while still keeping an arguably fair distance between him and his opponent so why not add a little more pressure to keep them at a distance? After all, he is kind of designed to set up for big pressure to keep his opponents offstage or at least near the edge of the stage.

Overall, most of these suggestions are just changes to his overall launch angles of certain moves. This could still help to give his gameplay a little more boost in keeping the pressure on opponents and his down spikes a bit more consistent since both his up-B at a down angle and his normal down air are really big moves you have to commit. I think it would be safe to say, in my opinion, that his normal down air should spike a bit better if not any of the changes as I mentioned above. If anybody might like to build off this idea to include some fair drawbacks to these changes then I'm open to read and debate on it!

 

[Predatoria]

Being low tier isn’t always such a bad thing. It does have some benefits many players tend to gloss over, ignore, or oversee, despite the obvious frustrations of trying to win with a disadvantage in many matchups.

I know some players who only play A tier or better, sticking strictly to tier lists to decide who to play. Many of the upper tier echelons are populated heavily by players who choose a character not because they particularly like that character or the playstyle, but only because that character is currently considered to be a strong one. As soon as a character gets nerfed or reworked in some way, they’re out, maining the next hot fighter.

This is a very common phenomenon in mmo-based pvp, where classes see regular buffs, nerfs, and class reconstructions. There are class loyalists who stick with a certain class or a certain spec through the best and worst of it all, and then there are fotm rerollers who will play a class only because they can win with it more efficiently than they can with any other.

The vast majority of people who main Ridley are doing so despite the shortcomings mentioned in this thread, rather than because of any strengths he may have contending in a competitive scene. They’re the kind of people who will try to work with what he does have and make it work the best they can.

If Ridley is destined to be a lower tier character, he will likely see a smaller, closer-knit cluster of players who genuinely want to play him for who he is and how he plays, rather than because of tier lists.

I’m fairly inexperienced with SSBU, but I have very much lived through the experiences of playing a mmo-based class that went through many cycles where it was both very, very strong and pitifully weak at different times. When I played my class while it was weak, I got so much respect for playing it. When I’d beat somebody, I would be heralded as an excellent player. People would take notice that somebody was competing with an under-represented, underdog class. Others that loved the class I played would talk to me and ask how I beat someone, ask for tips, and it was just all-around a great experience. During those times in which the class I played was overtuned, however, I was met with scorn and disrespect for playing the exact same class I’d been all along. Tons of high-profile players who couldn’t care less about the class I played would come in and excel with it, hogging the entire spotlight. I’d get cast aside as a fotmer, even though I’d been there all along.

I suspect similar sentiments are likely present in the SSB scene. How much do you respect a player who competes with a lower tier character, playing that character because they genuinely like them? Compare that to one who played whatever was top tier, just because it was top tier.

You can bet if a Ridley main shows up in a tournament, I’ll be cheering them on the entire way through that uphill battle.

I can see the difficulty in playing Ridley and here are some of the considerable changes I believe would benefit a bit more to his gameplay:

1) Change the launch angle of his normal down air. If not make the down air sweet box bigger so that it's more consistent to being a true spike, then maybe they should at least change the angle at which the opponent is launched to be more horizontal and at a lower angle with maybe less knockback to compensate. This would help to maybe the set-up for more of Ridley's pressure game with his plasma ball attacks and make it a bit more challenging for characters to get back on stage. Too many times have I been in matches where I land a down air on opponents only for them to be shot back up vertically enough for them to DI back on stage at high percentages.

2) Change the angle of the plasma balls. I saw this throughout the forums for Ridley and also thought it might be a good idea to implement. The allowing a player to limitedly change angles of plasmas would also help to keep other players on their toes about how to approach Ridley and punish the opponent more for making good reads when going for overheads. Also making the launch of maybe 1 or 2 plasma balls a bit faster would definitely help with more of his pressure game.

3) Change the angle of his side-B. While side-B is more viable for a kill move at high percentages, a good change might be in order for Ridley players who end the move early where the Ridley players recover a little quicker in the air or somewhere along those lines so that way he can set up for a bit more plasma pressure. Ridley already somewhat automatically DI's toward the thrown character while still keeping an arguably fair distance between him and his opponent so why not add a little more pressure to keep them at a distance? After all, he is kind of designed to set up for big pressure to keep his opponents offstage or at least near the edge of the stage.

Overall, most of these suggestions are just changes to his overall launch angles of certain moves. This could still help to give his gameplay a little more boost in keeping the pressure on opponents and his down spikes a bit more consistent since both his up-B at a down angle and his normal down air are really big moves you have to commit. I think it would be safe to say, in my opinion, that his normal down air should spike a bit better if not any of the changes as I mentioned above. If anybody might like to build off this idea to include some fair drawbacks to these changes then I'm open to read and debate on it!

I like your ideas. I suppose they could possibly make it such that you can kind of aim the fireball trajectory, kind of like Dedede's gordo or Link's boomerang. A bit of a directional tilt on the stick after you engage the B button could be the means of control. I'd love this.

I personally have a really hard time landing down air spikes without losing a stock in the process. I think it'd help a lot if they made it such that you could up B out of it more quickly, as by the time I can up B out of a spike off the edge of the stage, I'm often too low to come up and grab the ledge.

Your suggestions do seem quite reasonable and quite in-line with some of the already seen changes Nintendo has done in previous patches. They're often very small, subtle alterations.

 

[StrayDevilFox]

Being low tier isn’t always such a bad thing. It does have some benefits many players tend to gloss over, ignore, or oversee, despite the obvious frustrations of trying to win with a disadvantage in many matchups.

I know some players who only play A tier or better, sticking strictly to tier lists to decide who to play. Many of the upper tier echelons are populated heavily by players who choose a character not because they particularly like that character or the playstyle, but only because that character is currently considered to be a strong one. As soon as a character gets nerfed or reworked in some way, they’re out, maining the next hot fighter.

This is a very common phenomenon in mmo-based pvp, where classes see regular buffs, nerfs, and class reconstructions. There are class loyalists who stick with a certain class or a certain spec through the best and worst of it all, and then there are fotm rerollers who will play a class only because they can win with it more efficiently than they can with any other.

The vast majority of people who main Ridley are doing so despite the shortcomings mentioned in this thread, rather than because of any strengths he may have contending in a competitive scene. They’re the kind of people who will try to work with what he does have and make it work the best they can.

If Ridley is destined to be a lower tier character, he will likely see a smaller, closer-knit cluster of players who genuinely want to play him for who he is and how he plays, rather than because of tier lists.

I’m fairly inexperienced with SSBU, but I have very much lived through the experiences of playing a mmo-based class that went through many cycles where it was both very, very strong and pitifully weak at different times. When I played my class while it was weak, I got so much respect for playing it. When I’d beat somebody, I would be heralded as an excellent player. People would take notice that somebody was competing with an under-represented, underdog class. Others that loved the class I played would talk to me and ask how I beat someone, ask for tips, and it was just all-around a great experience. During those times in which the class I played was overtuned, however, I was met with scorn and disrespect for playing the exact same class I’d been all along. Tons of high-profile players who couldn’t care less about the class I played would come in and excel with it, hogging the entire spotlight. I’d get cast aside as a fotmer, even though I’d been there all along.

I suspect similar sentiments are likely present in the SSB scene. How much do you respect a player who competes with a lower tier character, playing that character because they genuinely like them? Compare that to one who played whatever was top tier, just because it was top tier.

You can bet if a Ridley main shows up in a tournament, I’ll be cheering them on the entire way through that uphill battle.



I like your ideas. I suppose they could possibly make it such that you can kind of aim the fireball trajectory, kind of like Dedede's gordo or Link's boomerang. A bit of a directional tilt on the stick after you engage the B button could be the means of control. I'd love this.

I personally have a really hard time landing down air spikes without losing a stock in the process. I think it'd help a lot if they made it such that you could up B out of it more quickly, as by the time I can up B out of a spike off the edge of the stage, I'm often too low to come up and grab the ledge.

Your suggestions do seem quite reasonable and quite in-line with some of the already seen changes Nintendo has done in previous patches. They're often very small, subtle alterations.

Thank you for reviewing my suggestions, I completely agree that each character should have their advantages and disadvantages. I also agree that not all characters should be nerfed or buffed to be top tier as that is very difficult to implement because one character may always have more advantages than the other. Small changes like these however, may make things a bit more manageable and rewarding for some Ridley players who takes more risks and capitalizes on good reads, especially the down air. I don't mind the other mechanics of Ridley too much because they are part of his weakness. Moves such as his fixed angled up-B moves force the players to memorize and think about how carefully he should approach players offstage as well. I do see the argument with having a fixed trajectory. Making his up-B freely controllable with its trajectory and maybe a little quicker recovery of his down-air is also in order and if I had to compensate for this change I would say take away the option to move his up-B downwards completely. The reason for this is because he already has to commit to two moves completely which are his up-B and his normal down air. So, taking away this move in return for a faster recovery of his normal down-air spike would be a fair trade in my opinion. Reiterating what predatoria had mentioned, a lot of characters have some sort of gimmick to compensate for some advantages. With that in mind, what would you folks rather have as a change? the trajectory of some of his throws and fireballs for more setups, or the trajectory of his up-B and or maybe one extra jump to help with his recovery?

 

[Predatoria]

Thank you for reviewing my suggestions, I completely agree that each character should have their advantages and disadvantages. I also agree that not all characters should be nerfed or buffed to be top tier as that is very difficult to implement because one character may always have more advantages than the other. Small changes like these however, may make things a bit more manageable and rewarding for some Ridley players who takes more risks and capitalizes on good reads, especially the down air. I don't mind the other mechanics of Ridley too much because they are part of his weakness. Moves such as his fixed angled up-B moves force the players to memorize and think about how carefully he should approach players offstage as well. I do see the argument with having a fixed trajectory. Making his up-B freely controllable with its trajectory and maybe a little quicker recovery of his down-air is also in order and if I had to compensate for this change I would say take away the option to move his up-B downwards completely. The reason for this is because he already has to commit to two moves completely which are his up-B and his normal down air. So, taking away this move in return for a faster recovery of his normal down-air spike would be a fair trade in my opinion. Reiterating what predatoria had mentioned, a lot of characters have some sort of gimmick to compensate for some advantages. With that in mind, what would you folks rather have as a change? the trajectory of some of his throws and fireballs for more setups, or the trajectory of his up-B and or maybe one extra jump to help with his recovery?

I will first caution that I am quite a newbie and have yet to do any kind of competitive play, so keep anything I say with this in mind. Most of my experience is speaking from a background of playing in house party style ffas / casual 1v1s or 2v2s with real-life friends or doing unranked 2v2 matches online, and I have never played beyond super-casual in any previous SSB game. It was actually Ridley who made me want to start learning the game on a higher level.

Though I have seen a lot of suggestions to make Ridley's wing blitz attack either 8-directional, or entirely freely directional, I don't find its current implementation to be as limiting as some may suggest. In particular, I've found the angle on his forwards wing blitz to be quite well-intentioned by Ridley's design, and deliberately angled as it is such that a straight, 8-directional set may not even accomplish this current, well-positioned angle. It's perfect for getting above and over a wall of projectile spam and bypassing a ground-based approach. I duel a friend of mine a lot who loves to play Krool. He's always throwing his crown and doing his cannon thing, and the angle on the forward variant of wing blitz gets me perfectly over all of this to land a hit on him while he's stuck in the gun suction animation. I've used this same move with relatively good success to get past my brother's Robin and his ranged toolkit, or past another friend of mine's Young Link arrow / bomb spam. I also find it very useful in 2v2 games to get past extremely campy setups. I imagine, however, in higher levels of play, it is probably going to get me punished much moreso than now, where I mostly get away with it. I'll have to find out when I get to that level.

I'm able to do a similar surprise attack with the reverse angle on wing blitz. Often I can surprise somebody with a backwards wing blitz to hit them off a platform, but only if used occasionally. If I make a habit of going for neutral airs or up tilts while they're up on platforms, an occasional reverse blitz seems to take people off-guard, especially if they're coming down for a landing from above or are mid-jump up to an above platform.

I will say sometimes characters with very strong recoveries such as Jigglypuff or Pikachu have come down well below the edge of the stage to gimp me while I'm powering up for an upwards recovery. In this scenario, would having the capability to do a diagonal recovery have saved me? Given the mobility of such characters off the stage, I'm not convinced they wouldn'tve been able to do a similar tactic had I gone for a diagonal instead of vertical recovery. I haven't had too many issues yet getting recovery-gimped as Ridley. More often, I've been able to punish players trying to do this with a satisfying space pirate rush into the underside of the stage, which then leaves me intending for a vertical recovery anyways, starting from a position diagonally off the edge.

I'm not sure how much an octagonal versus a 4-directional recovery would help, and any finesse beyond this with a truly analog, omni-directional wing blitz would likely be difficult to execute with the notched stick on the gamecube controller.

I'd also be sad to see the ability to use the move downwards go, as I occasionally use this as well to try and blast someone off the stage edge when they're coming to grab hold.

If we're strictly speaking of buffing Wing Blitz, I'd prefer to see a faster startup, super armor, or just extending the range altogether before I'd personally like to see it become more than four directions.


As for his down air, I've had very, very little success landing these without losing a stock. I'm always extremely aggressive off-stage to the point where I usually end up dying trying to land awesome gimp kills, but when success is had, it's glorious. At first, I tried to down aerial spike people but never, ever was able to recover from it with a following wing blitz unless I started way, way above the edge of the platform. Just being able to end your commit to the attack sooner would likely make it a much more viable option, in my opinion, as right now it is quite punishable when you land from it on-stage, and off-stage I've had such little success utilizing it without dying.


The idea of an extra jump just makes me giddy though. I actually had that idea and was secretly hoping for it as patch 2.0 rounded the corner. I think this would be an extremely big help, as Ridley's off-stage game is a lot of fun. I do find myself craving one more jump all the time with him. If I had to choose anything from your list (or even come up with my own personal suggestion), it'd be another jump. I'm not sure if Nintendo would change such a large thing about the character though. As of now, the patches they have released have introduced very minor changes that really do not change anything blatantly noticeable about the characters, such as adding an extra jump would. Only time will tell, and we'll have to see. Given Ridley had 0 representation in Genesis 6 and that he's been creeping lower on tier lists, maybe he will see some kind of awesome buff such as a fourth jump. He'd be the king of the skies with that, rightfully so!

 

[StrayDevilFox]

I will first caution that I am quite a newbie and have yet to do any kind of competitive play, so keep anything I say with this in mind. Most of my experience is speaking from a background of playing in house party style ffas / casual 1v1s or 2v2s with real-life friends or doing unranked 2v2 matches online, and I have never played beyond super-casual in any previous SSB game. It was actually Ridley who made me want to start learning the game on a higher level.

Though I have seen a lot of suggestions to make Ridley's wing blitz attack either 8-directional, or entirely freely directional, I don't find its current implementation to be as limiting as some may suggest. In particular, I've found the angle on his forwards wing blitz to be quite well-intentioned by Ridley's design, and deliberately angled as it is such that a straight, 8-directional set may not even accomplish this current, well-positioned angle. It's perfect for getting above and over a wall of projectile spam and bypassing a ground-based approach. I duel a friend of mine a lot who loves to play Krool. He's always throwing his crown and doing his cannon thing, and the angle on the forward variant of wing blitz gets me perfectly over all of this to land a hit on him while he's stuck in the gun suction animation. I've used this same move with relatively good success to get past my brother's Robin and his ranged toolkit, or past another friend of mine's Young Link arrow / bomb spam. I also find it very useful in 2v2 games to get past extremely campy setups. I imagine, however, in higher levels of play, it is probably going to get me punished much moreso than now, where I mostly get away with it. I'll have to find out when I get to that level.

I'm able to do a similar surprise attack with the reverse angle on wing blitz. Often I can surprise somebody with a backwards wing blitz to hit them off a platform, but only if used occasionally. If I make a habit of going for neutral airs or up tilts while they're up on platforms, an occasional reverse blitz seems to take people off-guard, especially if they're coming down for a landing from above or are mid-jump up to an above platform.

I will say sometimes characters with very strong recoveries such as Jigglypuff or Pikachu have come down well below the edge of the stage to gimp me while I'm powering up for an upwards recovery. In this scenario, would having the capability to do a diagonal recovery have saved me? Given the mobility of such characters off the stage, I'm not convinced they wouldn'tve been able to do a similar tactic had I gone for a diagonal instead of vertical recovery. I haven't had too many issues yet getting recovery-gimped as Ridley. More often, I've been able to punish players trying to do this with a satisfying space pirate rush into the underside of the stage, which then leaves me intending for a vertical recovery anyways, starting from a position diagonally off the edge.

I'm not sure how much an octagonal versus a 4-directional recovery would help, and any finesse beyond this with a truly analog, omni-directional wing blitz would likely be difficult to execute with the notched stick on the gamecube controller.

I'd also be sad to see the ability to use the move downwards go, as I occasionally use this as well to try and blast someone off the stage edge when they're coming to grab hold.

If we're strictly speaking of buffing Wing Blitz, I'd prefer to see a faster startup, super armor, or just extending the range altogether before I'd personally like to see it become more than four directions.


As for his down air, I've had very, very little success landing these without losing a stock. I'm always extremely aggressive off-stage to the point where I usually end up dying trying to land awesome gimp kills, but when success is had, it's glorious. At first, I tried to down aerial spike people but never, ever was able to recover from it with a following wing blitz unless I started way, way above the edge of the platform. Just being able to end your commit to the attack sooner would likely make it a much more viable option, in my opinion, as right now it is quite punishable when you land from it on-stage, and off-stage I've had such little success utilizing it without dying.


The idea of an extra jump just makes me giddy though. I actually had that idea and was secretly hoping for it as patch 2.0 rounded the corner. I think this would be an extremely big help, as Ridley's off-stage game is a lot of fun. I do find myself craving one more jump all the time with him. If I had to choose anything from your list (or even come up with my own personal suggestion), it'd be another jump. I'm not sure if Nintendo would change such a large thing about the character though. As of now, the patches they have released have introduced very minor changes that really do not change anything blatantly noticeable about the characters, such as adding an extra jump would. Only time will tell, and we'll have to see. Given Ridley had 0 representation in Genesis 6 and that he's been creeping lower on tier lists, maybe he will see some kind of awesome buff such as a fourth jump. He'd be the king of the skies with that, rightfully so!

King of the skies does have a nice ring to it although, I'd have to place my vote with controllable angles of the moves I mentioned other than his wing blitz. I respect your view Predatoria and hopefully Nintendo and Sakurai will notice some of these suggestions.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

I will say sometimes characters with very strong recoveries such as Jigglypuff or Pikachu have come down well below the edge of the stage to gimp me while I'm powering up for an upwards recovery. In this scenario, would having the capability to do a diagonal recovery have saved me? Given the mobility of such characters off the stage, I'm not convinced they wouldn'tve been able to do a similar tactic had I gone for a diagonal instead of vertical recovery. I haven't had too many issues yet getting recovery-gimped as Ridley. More often, I've been able to punish players trying to do this with a satisfying space pirate rush into the underside of the stage, which then leaves me intending for a vertical recovery anyways, starting from a position diagonally off the edge.

I'm not sure how much an octagonal versus a 4-directional recovery would help, and any finesse beyond this with a truly analog, omni-directional wing blitz would likely be difficult to execute with the notched stick on the gamecube controller.

Yes it could have saved you. The farther away you are from the ledge while starting your up-b, the longer it will take for your opponent to reach you before the hitbox is active, and it doesn't require you to waste precious jumps turning yourself around. Currently there are 3 ways to sweetspot the ledge with Ridley: forward, up, or back, and two (back and forward) of them are basically only good for one shot, if they hit you and you fall below a certain height, you're dead. Having to burn a jump in the opposite direction to fly back towards the ledge is quite a handicap compared to characters like Pikachu and Pichu who can come back from almost anything with their up-b alone, repeatedly. Being able to conserve jumps to maximize your horizontal and vertical distance for multiple up-b attempts makes you far more likely to succeed than one-and-done.

 

[Dsull]

my only issue with ridley isnt his balance but just the initial impressions of how he plays is totally off compared to how is IS played.
Ridley in his appearances is always airborne, actually except for Prime series i dont think he's ever really landed longer than it took to hop into the air again. You'd THINK based on that he'd hate being on the ground and have insane recovery...but hes kinda the opposite so it messes with people including myself.

 

[meleebrawler]

my only issue with ridley isnt his balance but just the initial impressions of how he plays is totally off compared to how is IS played.
Ridley in his appearances is always airborne, actually except for Prime series i dont think he's ever really landed longer than it took to hop into the air again. You'd THINK based on that he'd hate being on the ground and have insane recovery...but hes kinda the opposite so it messes with people including myself.

Only in Super, Fusion, Subspace Emissary and Zero Mission is Ridley 100% airborne, and that's more due animation limitations (or only really having those to go on for Brawl). In the original he only did tiny little hops, Other M he's mostly trying to beat you up in close range and only occasionally flies up to blast you ith a fireball, and in Samus Returns he spends a roughly equal amount of time fighting on the ground and in the air. Generally, his later appearances are less air-happy than the old side-scrolling appearances, which make the fights more dynamic. Or he and the devs realized in a meta sense that he's way better at close-quarters combat than Samus is and adjusts tactics accordingly. Just look at how the last quarter of Meta Ridley's health takes longer to deplete in defensive close combat than the three quarters spent in the air and at a distance.

 

[Predatoria]

Yes it could have saved you. The farther away you are from the ledge while starting your up-b, the longer it will take for your opponent to reach you before the hitbox is active, and it doesn't require you to waste precious jumps turning yourself around. Currently there are 3 ways to sweetspot the ledge with Ridley: forward, up, or back, and two (back and forward) of them are basically only good for one shot, if they hit you and you fall below a certain height, you're dead. Having to burn a jump in the opposite direction to fly back towards the ledge is quite a handicap compared to characters like Pikachu and Pichu who can come back from almost anything with their up-b alone, repeatedly. Being able to conserve jumps to maximize your horizontal and vertical distance for multiple up-b attempts makes you far more likely to succeed than one-and-done.

I just played some more games online tonight. You're right. I deliberately watched out for this kind of scenario, and I did have some scenarios where I either over-committed to trying to get a kill in the bottom corner of the map, only to realize I really needed to diagonal back, or just realized they were in the "Ridley no-go zone," so I sat up and spat fire at them instead. No gimp deaths yet due to it, but I'm sure they will come in time.

I also practiced going out past the stage

I still do really enjoy the angles of the forwards and backwards wing blitz though.

 

[Great Potato]

I think Ridley could stand to be a bit better in the air considering he's always been his most threatening in the air, in Metroid Prime he moves around like a fighter jet through the skies. There would be ways to buff him in that area that wouldn't make him broken I think, but if you want to make play as more of a dedicated air fighter then balancing becomes an issue.

If we look at the two other biggest examples of "air fighters" in Smash we get Bayonetta and Jigglypuff. Sakurai decided it would be a good idea to make a character who can string together lengthy combos in the air and the end result pretty much killed the Smash 4 scene and was a huge balancing headache, so trying to tackle a similar approach with Ridley I don't think would be in the best interest and wouldn't really fit the character since Ridley has never been known to be a boss who strings lengthy combos to deal damage.

The Jigglypuff approach of giving her great air speed and 5 jumps makes her fit in well as a good air-fighter style character, but in order to balance that they needed a tradeoff of making her garbage on the ground. Jigglypuff spends most of the match in the air because she moves at a snail's pace with slow attacks and pitiful range otherwise. The opposite would be Little Mac who is practically useless when his feet aren't on the ground but a beast when they are. While it would be fun to see us be more of a monster in the air, something would have to give in order to make it balanced, and I don't think I'd like to compromise his ground game in order to make that a reality.

 

[Firox]

Ridley is such a **** character it's pathetic. It's painfully obvious that he was built around his side-B (because Sakurai "invented" it, back in Brawl) so every other move has to suffer as a result. You have a slow, blatantly-telegraphed attack that drags the opponent to the edge and great base stats, so why do you any of your other attacks need to be good, right?

He's praised by people who play him for two minutes in the darkest trenches of bottom-level laggy online, where you can win with literally any character if you know how to shorthop, tap A and recognize patterns. Neutral air is fine to create a temporary no-go zone around yourself but it's terrible for approach, as is forward air because half the cast has a faster, farther, longer lasting and/or harder hitting version of it, usually relating to a sword. The rest of his kit isn't worth mentioning and everyone knows it, which is why you only ever see those 2 moves praised.

Combine slow, poor attacks with a massive hitbox + no recovery and Ridley's match-ups are ****ing grim. You're not going to have many options against the characters most people unanimously agree are great: Yoshi, Peach, Snake, Ness, Link, Inkling, et cetera. Even the lower dregs of A-tier, like Falco or Jigglypuff, will be able to effortlessly stock you if they get even a moment of advantage. This is because those characters aren't half-baked gimmick picks, they have a range of options and they aren't fourteen feet tall.

Unless someone figures out a truly broken bug to make Ridley competitive he's going to sit in bottom-tier. People may not realize it yet (most pros haven't sat and tried to win with him; M2K did and his opinion resembles mine), but by the end of this game's lifespan it's going to become obvious how bad he really is.

Poor little guy. Did Ridley touch you in your special place? He is a "pirate" after all. Seriously though, Ridley is grossly underrated by all the tier-whores out there. I got him from 2 mil GSP to elite smash (3.6 mil as of now) without losing a SINGLE match, including against the likes of pichu, lucina, chrom, Belmonts, mewtwo and many more. Let's figure out how. Firstly, "slow, poor attacks"? Heh, have you actually seen his down tilt. The thing is super fast, has great reach, and is an awesome combo starter and poking tool. Almost all his aerials (except for Dair) have excellent speed and reach, and his plasma breath when used properly can easily cover his approaches. His Up B recovery, though clunky, is actually pretty strong, being able to reach the ledge from the bottom of the screen with super armor. His Side B is a god-tier move, being able to auto-kill pretty much anyone over 120% with an insane potential as a bait and punish. It can even be used off-stage as a Ganoncide that he can actually survive.

You talked about him having nothing to deal with Yoshi and Peach while his up smash and up air are some of the greatest anti-air options in the game if spaced properly. Speaking of options, you claim that he only has two moves worthy of praise. Honestly, you couldn't be more wrong. I can combo/wreck ppl with almost any of his moves except Dair. His tilts are fast with as much reach as a sword and his Fair/Bair can prioritize almost any other character's short hop attacks with the right timing. Finally, his plasma breath is one of the safest, easiest edge guard tools in the game, gimping ppl for days and that's not to say anything about how brutal his off-stage edgeguard game can be without it.

True, he has a massive hurtbox and has a really hard time against rushdown characters, but his weight and recovery give him relatively good longevity. Ppl wet themselves over how broken K rool is, but I honestly think a good Ridley could wipe out that fat croc any day. He's seriously one of the most slept on characters in the game, which is fine by me. Go ahead and join the masses that assume him to be a big purple punching bag. It just makes it so much more satisfying to watch you die scratching your head.

 

[Dcas]

Poor little guy. Did Ridley touch you in your special place? He is a "pirate" after all. Seriously though, Ridley is grossly underrated by all the tier-whores out there. I got him from 2 mil GSP to elite smash (3.6 mil as of now) without losing a SINGLE match, including against the likes of pichu, lucina, chrom, Belmonts, mewtwo and many more. Let's figure out how. Firstly, "slow, poor attacks"? Heh, have you actually seen his down tilt. The thing is super fast, has great reach, and is an awesome combo starter and poking tool. Almost all his aerials (except for Dair) have excellent speed and reach, and his plasma breath when used properly can easily cover his approaches. His Up B recovery, though clunky, is actually pretty strong, being able to reach the ledge from the bottom of the screen with super armor. His Side B is a god-tier move, being able to auto-kill pretty much anyone over 120% with an insane potential as a bait and punish. It can even be used off-stage as a Ganoncide that he can actually survive.

You talked about him having nothing to deal with Yoshi and Peach while his up smash and up air are some of the greatest anti-air options in the game if spaced properly. Speaking of options, you claim that he only has two moves worthy of praise. Honestly, you couldn't be more wrong. I can combo/wreck ppl with almost any of his moves except Dair. His tilts are fast with as much reach as a sword and his Fair/Bair can prioritize almost any other character's short hop attacks with the right timing. Finally, his plasma breath is one of the safest, easiest edge guard tools in the game, gimping ppl for days and that's not to say anything about how brutal his off-stage edgeguard game can be without it.

True, he has a massive hurtbox and has a really hard time against rushdown characters, but his weight and recovery give him relatively good longevity. Ppl wet themselves over how broken K rool is, but I honestly think a good Ridley could wipe out that fat croc any day. He's seriously one of the most slept on characters in the game, which is fine by me. Go ahead and join the masses that assume him to be a big purple punching bag. It just makes it so much more satisfying to watch you die scratching your head.

Sorry for double post, earlier one was mistake.

How about people stop being so black and white? Its like you are children.

He is very far from being ****, in fact he MIGHT be low high tier or very close to high tier.

The only 3 really bad things he has are:

- Horrendous disadvantage, must be played very wisely and spacing properly with his excelente tilts and aerials(except dair). He struggles vs rushdowns such as pichu,pika, fox.
- He got 2 moves which are useless when playing vs good players: dair and DB, no reward from using them, massive lag, etc.
- His fireballs are excelent but a bit laggy, same applies for his command grab.

He has some great tools to win the neutral, top 10 edgeguarding and ledgetraping in the game, dumb kill power with his ftilt and fsmash. A character like this is very decent but you wont be winning any MAJORS with JUST Ridley, thats the state of ridley atm. But saying he will be super top is dumb but is even more stupid to say he is low tier.

 

[Firox]

Exactly. Ridley definitely isn't top tier, but he isn't bottom tier by any stretch of the imagination either. He has the tools to wreck ppl if you know what you're doing and should be considered among the fastest of the heavy weights. I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10, he's potentially between 6-8. Keep in mind that even though he struggles against rushdowns like pika, pichu and fox, doesn't most of the roster as well? It's important to consider him against the whole 75+ roster of characters and not just the top ten meta. Also keep in mind that tiers/meta assumes that all players are relatively the same skill level. That means a skilled Ridley could still wreck the likes of pichu, Chrom and many more if the player themselves has a good understanding of the matchup.