Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[---]

Even according to these bullet points you linked, this is during the period where Sakurai is specifically looking for clones. Yes, Roy was considered more different for his fire, but you generally at least want a clone to have -something- to differentiate them from the base. It also says in those bullet points that Wolf was rejected for Falco because he looked too much like Fox, but he was added later in Brawl anyway. Now, this is conjecture, but doesn't it also sound like it would be kind of rude of Sakurai to not include Roy after the developers show him the new Fire Emblem? After all, it's just a worthless clone slot, and it does help to advertise.

As for Lucario, isn't it confirmed that the Pokemon Company specifically called him up and told him to include him? Sakurai himself seems to value the 1st gen, otherwise he wouldn't put a new 1st gen rep (Pokemon Trainer) when the original games are so old.

Never does hurt to advertise (it's like a win-win situation), but it's not the reason that Sakurai puts characters in to begin with, that's the only thing I'm trying to get at.

I honestly haven't seen any proof in PC calling Sakurai up for really anything but if it does come up I'll be sure to add it to the directory. Sakurai has gone on record saying that Pokemon is the hardest series to work with (from a gameplay standpoint and fitting in with other franchises) though.

As for PT Red, there is evidence that he wanted PT in Melee, the Pokemon he uses all ranked high on the Melee poll (including Ash aka Red) and he also stated that Charizard would be an interesting addition too. Despite that I guess it could be assumed that with FRLG the chance to put in the main character of the series as well as other popular Pokemon (aka Charizard). There isn't any real evidence that he has a bias towards Gen 1 (that's not to say it isn't a funny coincidence) or any other Gen for that matter.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Never does hurt to advertise (it's like a win-win situation), but it's not the reason that Sakurai puts characters in to begin with, that's the only thing I'm trying to get at.

Definitely impressed with all of these articles that you have on hand. Bravo.

But in any case, I find it kind of bizarre when people use the fact that a character meets Sakurai's four point criteria as a reasoning to be in Smash Bros, for the simple reason that so many characters meet said criteria. It doesn't help us a lot in eliminating potential candidates.

Of course, I could see why one would think it would eliminate Paper Mario or Bowser Jr., as posted a long time ago, because of them having the names of an existing character in their own names.

In any case, when did Sakurai even post this criteria? Isn't this the stuff he posted back in the Melee days? How relevant is it now?

Melee poll

Will never figure out why -Japan- wanted James Bond. Always amusing looking back at that one.

 

[---]

Definitely impressed with all of these articles that you have on hand. Bravo.

Well thanks for the complement. Means a lot coming from someone with a Nappa avi.

But in any case, I find it kind of bizarre when people use the fact that a character meets Sakurai's four point criteria as a reasoning to be in Smash Bros, for the simple reason that so many characters meet said criteria. It doesn't help us a lot in eliminating potential candidates.

Of course, I could see why one would think it would eliminate Paper Mario or Bowser Jr., as posted a long time ago, because of them having the names of an existing character in their own names.

In any case, when did Sakurai even post this criteria? Isn't this the stuff he posted back in the Melee days? How relevant is it now?

Yeah it's really quite open when you get down to it, of course the characters themselves all each have their own factors in place that can either help or hold them back. There's also Sakurai's own interest in the repective character (ex. Saki on the Dojo), what they will add to the game, as well as if the character can actually fit together with other franchises which he has stated heavily for 3rd parties (Snake probably opened the gate wider however lol). He has stated though, that 3rd parties add a lot more than most Nintendo newcomers.

That stuff was from GDC 2008 which took place sometime after Brawl came out in the west. Tough to say if it's relevant since it is open ended, but seeing that like Brawl, he'll be adding characters that can add to the game (since the character pool is small this time around) rather than in Melee where most of it was for buffing the roster (ex. Clone characters over unique Dedede) it probably still matters to some extent.

 

[Akenero]

Yeah, that was just a popularity poll on some magazine with Sakurai's comments being how surprised he was that Pit was number 1. Still, more Fire Emblem characters would be nice, and admittedly, I would love to see the return of Roy. He deserves some love, and perhaps a more unique moveset. Although his standard B move can remain untouched, seeing as it's now unique compared to Marth's Brawl standard B.

Question.Does the world want roy back?Answer:Y.E.S. Roy is amazing.I occasionally find myself saddened to the point of screaming because Roy isn't in brawl.I for one will be really mad at nintendo if they don't bring him back.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ash =/= Red =/= Pokemon Trainer. None of them are the same guy.

And MasterWarlord said Sakurai valued 1st Gen. That means he likes them more than others.

 

[JPW]

Question.Does the world want roy back?Answer:Y.E.S. Roy is amazing.I occasionally find myself saddened to the point of screaming because Roy isn't in brawl.I for one will be really mad at nintendo if they don't bring him back.

1 man can't speak for the world.

And already by your logic you're wrong. Because i don't want him back. I am part of this world you know.
I'm happy having Ike instead. He was the Roy I always wanted. At least he is different to Marth.

 

[Oasis_S]

Shut up you stinking alien.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ehrm. Prediction. Realistic, not desired.

6 new characters: Bowser Jr., Little Mac, Mii, Zoarark, Pac-Man, Heihachi (or another Namco rep from Soul Calibur?).
We'll all be disappointed and Reggie will say "oh gamers can't be satisfied. We give them more and they say 'but we want more more more.' Well gamers, WE PUT THIS ON THE 3DS FOR YOU. What more could you ask?"
And then we'll all look at him with scorn because he doesn't get it and the game being dual-developed made it weaker.

Maybe they'll use this game to refocus a bit. Kick tiny Link out. Make normal Link a hybrid between the two. He's got the cel-shaded look down well enough. Maybe they'll separate Zelda and Sheik (I wish!). Maybe they'll redo Ganon's moveset.

Snake gets the boot. He was awesome for one go but we can't expect him again. Sonic stays, because he's Mario's longterm rival (and he needs a better showing this time around.)

Namco gets their reps 'cause it'd be pretty messed up to be like "hey, make this game for us. No, we don't want your dirty characters in it."

Ridley's not going to happen, even poorly. Zero Suit's still in.
I doubt Palutena or another Kid Icarus character is going to happen- just doesn't seem like they'll be doing much with the franchise in the near future. Could be wrong.

Captain Falcon will never get a partner in crime. He's only still in the game himself because he made it into the first one. In any case, I actually like the somewhat decent number of characters representing their franchises by themselves. I wish there could be more of that. Chibi-Robo, Starfy, Captain Rainbow... etc.

That could end up as the worst case scenario, but only if the developers are way too lazy with their work. In terms of 3rd parties, I'm not very convinced with having Heihachi in the game.

 

[Life]

Mario:
Paper Mario, maybe. I think Mario rep is perfect as it is, though. Just the big four.

Zelda:
Toon Link returns.
Ghirahim is likely.
Impa is plausible but I doubt it.
Ganondorf's decloning continues.

Pokemon:
Not gonna make a call on Lucario or Mewtwo.
Pikachu, PT, Jigglypuff all stay.
Zoroark is likely, especially if neither Lucario or Mewtwo returns.

Metroid:
Ridley is likely.

Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus are actually tied to each other. Why? I could see Magnus replacing Ike. If we do, I'm not familiar enough with FE to name a second FE rep. Doubt we'll see Roy though. If Magnus is not included, I don't see Medusa being added as she's too big :ridley:. Palutena? Not so sure. See

Spoiler

chapter 20

in KIU. I'd like Dark Pit, personally. (No, he's not a clone, he's the original! I elaborated on this one in his thread.)

Star Fox:
Krystal is too close to call.
Falco and Wolf stay.

New franchises:
Isaac or Matthew from Golden Sun.
I'm probably forgetting a bunch.

Other franchises not mentioned stay the same (Kirby, Mother, Pikmin, GnW, ICs, ROB, F-Zero).

Third parties:
Snake probably returns. Remember the chain of events that led to his inclusion in Brawl? We'll see if Kojima still wants him in Smash 4.

Sonic certainly returns. He's too darn popular to cut. Another Sonic character is possible but unlikely.

A Namco/Bandai character, obviously. Don't know enough about them to comment.

Lastly, a character from either Capcom or Square Enix, probably either Mega Man, Ryu, or Sora.

tl;dr
possibly Paper Mario
Ghirahim
One of Mewtwo/Lucario/Zoroark
Ridley
Either (Magnus + new FE character + cut Ike) or (Palutena or Dark Pit + keep Ike)
possibly Krystal
Isaac/Matthew
something I'm forgetting
Namco/Bandai character
Capcom or Square Enix character
Everyone not mentioned stays as is

...that's the most generic roster ever, but there it is.

 

[Acidity]

SSB4 roster prediction:
mario: mario, luigi, bowser, peach, wario, yoshi, baby bowser
pokemon: pikachu, jigglypuff, mewtwo/lucario, pokemon trainer
zelda: link, ganon, zelda + shiek, toon link
starfox: fox, falco, wolf, crystal
kirby: kirby, mk, DDD
donkey kong: DK, diddy kong
metroid: samus + zss
earthbound: ness, lucas
sonic: sonic, shadow
fire emblem: marth, ike/roy
other: snake, robot, ice climbers, pit

 

[Arcadenik]

My dream Nintendo-only roster...

Mario series [7]
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Toad
5. Bowser
6. Yoshi
7. Wario

Donkey Kong series [4]
8. Donkey Kong
9. Diddy Kong
10. Dixie Kong & Kiddy Kong team
11. King K. Rool

Zelda series [5]
12. Link
13. Zelda / Impa
14. Ganondorf
15. Masked Link (Deku Link, Goron Link, Zora Link)
16. Tingle

Metroid series [2]
17. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
18. Ridley

Kid Icarus series [3]
19. Pit
20. Palutena
21. Medusa

Retro franchises [5]
22. Ice Climbers
23. Mr. Game & Watch
24. R.O.B.
25. Takamaru
26. Duck Hunt Dog

Punch-Out!! series [2]
27. Little Mac
28. King Hippo

Kirby series [3]
29. Kirby
30. Meta Knight
31. King Dedede

Star Fox series [3]
32. Fox
33. Wolf
34. Krystal

Fire Emblem series [2]
35. Marth
36. Krom

Mother series [2]
37. Ness
38. Lucas

Pokemon series [5]
39. Pikachu
40. Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard)
41. Mewtwo
42. Team Rocket (Meowth & Arbok team, Meowth & Weezing team)
43. Jigglypuff

Modern franchises [5]
44. Captain Falcon
45. Olimar
46. Starfy
47. Mii
48. Shulk

Sorry my dream roster is a nightmare roster for those who hates cutting/replacing characters and inclusions of certain characters.

 

[MechaWave]

Paper Mario and Rosalina is all that I need.

 

[fogbadge]

how do you upload pictures to this forum?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

how do you upload pictures to this forum?

You need to head to a website that allows you to upload your images. Websites include Photobucket, ImageShack, Tinypic, and imgur.

Once you've uploaded your image, copy the image link that you're given, and use the

 

[Conviction]

Seems like Layton got a boost in importance.

 

[yani]

I could have sworn I saw someone post this, but this is some artwork from the dev team (according to GoNintendo)

Not that there was any doubt, but it's pretty safe to say these characters are in

 

[lordvaati]

imagine if that was the default characters.

Luigi finally gets some respect!

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sandbag confirmed for playable character in Super Smash Bros...?

 

[Johnknight1]

The only characters on that which won't be playable are obviously Pikmin (instead, they are the slaves of Olimar), Mr. Saturn, the sandbag, and Master Hand (if that's him).

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

Happy to see Mr. Game and Watch there :]

But

Spoiler

Toon Link is not there.

hahah jk I'm not wanting to start making a huge deal out of a drawing. :D

Spoiler

or am I?

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

forget it Toon Link wont be there because having two Link was important to the plot of Zelda because they exist at the same time in different timelines, but now our Link is the original Link before the timeline splits.....that's why one Link exists....

 

[lordvaati]

Happy to see Mr. Game and Watch there :]

But

Spoiler

Toon Link is not there.

hahah jk I'm not wanting to start making a huge deal out of a drawing. :D

Spoiler

or am I?

ZSS is there, but not Samus in a suit. don't look too deep into it.

 

[BKupa666]

He's still putting Kirby and Pit at the forefront of things? What an egomaniac!

 

[SmashKing201]

Captain Falcon not being there is quite a surprise for me. F-Zero deserves more love

 

[Berserker.]

Would appreciate thoughts regarding the matter of the news regarding the rosters. Too lazy to browse.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

If they're going to put in another Pokemon, they should at least put in an imaginative Pokemon.

I vote Smeargle I vote Smeargle because he has Sketch (which would be similar to Kirby's Swallow), but having Sketch as a neutral-B fixes the TWO problems that I have with Kirby in Melee:

1) Kirby could only copy neutral-B moves. Smeargle would get his own "default" special moves, and his neutral-B Sketch would be like a cross between Swallow and a grab, except dthrow replaces Smeargle's down-B with his opponent's down-B, f/bthrow replaces Smeargle's forward-B with his opponent's forward-B, and uthrow replaces Smeargle's up-B with his opponent's up-B.

2) Kirby's Copy ability replaced Swallow. Honestly, how many neutral-B moves are better (for Kirby) than Swallow? Kirby Punches, Flare Blade, and Shield Breaker suck (no range). Kirby Lazors suck (no SHL). Kirby Needles, Fireballs, Pills, and Jolts suck (can't follow up). There's practically no reason to copy anybody else's neutral-B. Smeargle wouldn't replace Sketch with anything because he'd need it if he wanted to Sketch more than one special move.

Imagine the metagame possibilities!

 

[gothrax]

I Notice that samus doesn't have her armor on? Does that mean when you pick her in character select she'll start in the zero suite? Like in the SSE

I actually wouldn't be against that.

 

[Arcadenik]

I could have sworn I saw someone post this, but this is some artwork from the dev team (according to GoNintendo)

Not that there was any doubt, but it's pretty safe to say these characters are in

Mario, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Wario, Link, Zero Suit Samus (also confirms Samus), Pit, Kirby, Meta Knight, Fox, Pikachu, Marth, and Mr. Game & Watch. They are probably the first veterans added in SSB4. Luigi, Marth, and Mr. Game & Watch are probably on the starting roster instead of being unlockables.

I see a Pikmin (a blue one, to be specific) and a Mr. Saturn. That pretty much tells me that Olimar, Ness, and Lucas might be coming back. That or the development team are debating among themselves whether to keep Olimar or replace with a new Captain from Pikmin 3 and which Mother character to keep. You may panic now.

Now if they would be kind and post a drawing with some SSB4 newcomers on Twitter.

 

[BRLNK88]

I might be in favor of removing Toon/Young Link, and giving Link YL's speed and frame stats while retaining his power and range, he'd be a true contender for sure.
I think Skyward Link is clearly more agile anyways.

 

[DMurr]

I really don't think that this drawing is anything to really speculate about.. One of the artists probably just drew it in their free time.

 

[Curious Villager]

I Notice that samus doesn't have her armor on? Does that mean when you pick her in character select she'll start in the zero suite? Like in the SSE

I actually wouldn't be against that.

That was already possible in Brawl. Just hold on to the shield button before you go to the stage select screen and choose a stage.

 

[Kaffei]

I hope MK gets nerfed but is still a good character
(Not like what they did to Sheik/Falcon's transition to Brawl from Melee)

 

[DakotaBonez]

My friend made this, Honestly I didn't mention anything about the top character choices mentioned on Smashboards. I guess everyone just seems to want these people.

 

[lordvaati]

I hope MK gets nerfed but is still a good character
(Not like what they did to Sheik/Falcon's transition to Brawl from Melee)

agree with Cap, though the Sheik nerf wasn't THAT bad. plus, it made the use of Zeldeik more common,like how they originally intended.

 

[yani]

Fixed.

 

[BKupa666]

Ghirahim and Black Shadow are there, but no Ridley or Little Mac?

 

[FlareHabanero]

It a personal opinion, so I suppose it's what he prefers.

(Also what the hell is up with all of the Bowser Jr. support lately?)

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So, I posted a roster here and I kinda want to see what people thought of my reasoning.

(Also what the hell is up with all of the Bowser Jr. support lately?)

I agree, it is a bit weird to see him getting so much support, especially since he was hated for a long while. I'm also surprised at how much support Takamaru has been getting lately.

 

[ChronoBound]

I can very easily see the number of newcomers for Smash 4 being lower than Melee and Brawl. Heck, I can even see it being lower than Smash 64. I am only expecting 6-10 newcomers personally. In a scenario where no characters from Brawl are cut, I can easily see Mewtwo and Roy being brought back. The only characters in Brawl that have a plausible chance at being cut are Lucario, Ike, Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, Lucas, Wolf, Falco, and Sheik. I am personally expecting the total number of playable characters for Smash 4 to range anywhere from 42 to 48. People are easily setting their expectations way too high.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

My friend made this, Honestly I didn't mention anything about the top character choices mentioned on Smashboards. I guess everyone just seems to want these people.

+1 for adding Chibi-Robo.

I'm not entirely surprised at the Takamaru support but Maybe it's because of Nintendo Land?

Maybe Ridley and Little Mac didn't fit? :o (Either way you should ask them Dakota, maybe he just ran out of room haha)