Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FalKoopa]

Lol at the Waluigi hate. From what I've seen Sakurai doesn't give a damn about a character's hatebase.

 

[Frostwraith]

Lol at the Waluigi hate. From what I've seen Sakurai doesn't give a damn about a character's hatebase.

Of course he doesn't give a damn, instead, he laughs at the haters.

 

[Deleted member]

dude i meant as a character. mario is going to get a rep no matter what hopefully not waluigi. plus when was waluigi a main character in game?

Mario Party 3. Main villain.
DDR Mario Mix. Main villain/plot-driving villain.

If that doesn't count, then Bowser Jr. has never been a main character either.

 

[FourStar]

honestly i just can't see waluigi making due to the fact that he's never been a main character. and yea i hate him too but so what? and those don't count because those are mario spinoff games. and i don't think Bowser Junior will make it either because of the same reason

 

[FalKoopa]

honestly i just can't see waluigi making due to the fact that he's never been a main character. and yea i hate him too but so what? and those don't count because those are mario spinoff games. and i don't think Bowser Junior will make it either because of the same reason

So who do you think will make it?

 

[8-peacock-8]

lol @ all the anti-WAAA arguments..

I think he's hilarious, I loved him in strikers. He is annoying, but i feel he could fit in.

Waluigi would fit in perfectly. (like the rest of the Mario crew)

 

[Deleted member]

honestly i just can't see waluigi making due to the fact that he's never been a main character. and yea i hate him too but so what? and those don't count because those are mario spinoff games. and i don't think Bowser Junior will make it either because of the same reason

"Don't count because those are Mario spinoff games".
That's always been a bull**** reason for anything. It's clear Sakurai doesn't give a flying **** about whether the game is a "spin-off" or a "main" game. (And since Mario has no established canon and the characters are compared to a troupe of actors by Miyamoto, it's frigging impossible to state which ones are "main" and which ones are "spin-off". Even more so when you realize that the Mario series is entirely a spin-off franchise. Super Mario Bros. is a spin-off of the Mario Bros. arcade game, which in turn is a spin-off of the original Donkey Kong arcade game.) If he did, things would be a lot different for how the series is represented in Smash (especially Brawl).

By your logic, there is no Mario character that will make it in, since no one else has been a "main character" in a "main" game.
Hell, Bowser isn't a "main character", so he should be cut. He's only been a villain in the "main" games.
Same with Peach. Just a damsel-in-distress in the "main" games. (Not counting SMB2, since that was just a dream and is kind of a spin-off in itself since it isn't the real SMB2.)

Mario and Luigi have been main characters frequently. And as of recent, Blue Toad and Yellow Toad, so they should be in.

 

[FalKoopa]

Lol Golden, calm down.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol Golden, calm down.

Contrary to what you may believe, I am calm.
Just because I make long posts doesn't mean I'm raging.
When I'm raging, I'll be raging. Enough to make Mr. Resetti cower in fear.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Don't get Golden angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

 

[volbound1700]

Waluigi has a better chance of being in Smash then most people think and further he could be lumped in the Warioware category since I think he had an obscure appearance in one of those games.

I wouldn't say he on the level of Megaman, K Rool, or any of the high demand characters but here are some things going for Waluigi:

1. He is well known to the Video Game community appearing in many best seller Mario spin-offs as well as Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games. These series sold more games individually then most the Smash series including big names like Kid Icarus, Metroid, Pikmin, etc. For example Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games sold 10 million games and Waluigi is in that. Mario Kart Wii is in top 5 for sales on Wii. Therefore Waluigi has been a part of a major series and is well-known.

2. Waluigi was an AT in Brawl and has been mentioned in Smash since Melee era. AT are characters sometimes that were considered as playable by Sakurai but didn't make the cut totally.

3. Waluigi is popular on polls in both Japan and US and is a character that is demanded to appear in the next Smash game.

4. Waluigi could have a unique and fun moveset and bring an interesting dynamic to the series.

I am not a HUGE Waluigi fan but he has some items going for him to get into Smash 4.

 

[FalKoopa]

I think he had an obscure appearance in one of those games.

Which one?

 

[Deleted member]

Don't get Golden angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.

Which one?

He didn't. People mistake that one Wario caricature in Smooth Moves' Crowd Control microgame as Waluigi due to it being taller and blue in color.
However, the nose and mustache is Wario's, and there are other deformed Wario caricatures to go with it.

 

[volbound1700]

People mistake that one Wario caricature in Smooth Moves' Crowd Control microgame as Waluigi due to it being taller and blue in color.
However, the nose and mustache is Wario's, and there are other deformed Wario caricatures to go with it.

Alright, I thought he was in one of the minigames. I never played Warioware and never had the desire.

 

[Noler_Mass]

What characters do you guys think are just popular on the polls... Because. Like what I mean is inevitably on some sites there will be some bandwagon characters that just get randomly popular for no reason whatsoever. Like geno is definetly an example a random character from an old snes Mario game and that was his only appearance? Lolwut? Waluigi is in a similar boat for me since it seems like the only reason he gets support is because he is warios brother or whatever. When in actuality he is just a random character who was only created so wario could have a partner in Mario tennis and has only been in spin offs. Another character that specifically comes to my mind is takamaru. Like his game has never been releases in America, but he has one event in nintendoland so everyone is sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is in smash. And when questioned they just go like EAST AND WEST YO. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if he was in smash especially considering the massive popularity lately, I just don't think his fan base has even played as takamaru in a game. I also wonder why balloon fighter isn't more popular. I know there are other examples too like I think Dixie kong fits this role pretty well, and Roy's situation is similar.

And then there are the characters who don't seem to have much support at all even though they have had four successful games in a row and would make a great character and wouldn't be anything like mr. Game and watch. Yeah I'm talking about paper Mario! I don't get why he is so unexpected if I were sakurai he would be one of my first additions not because of preference but because of sheer popularity of his 4 games. I think fawful and advanced wars additions are similar. It just kind of sucks when people are constantly suggesting nonsense like waluigi and toad and geno while there are way more deserving characters like paper Mario and fawful.

Just two more things first paper Mario and Mario would be different in every single move they wouldn't even be luigified clones that would be rediculous. Second is that adding toad is like adding waddle dee imo. Like sure they are important to the series but they ar just so generic and bland... They are just the commoners of their game. Super random example but its like if we're going to have a gathering of the most important people in the world and along with some actual important Americans like Obama and Oprah they bring some random redneck and put "American" for his name. Lolwut? Bandana dee is a little different in that he is a unique waddle dee, but from what I know there aren't really any specific toads that deserve a spot.

 

[kikaru]

My gripe with Waluigi is that he never carried the importance a primary protagonist or antagonist has and always felt more like a side character. While I am not against Waluigi being playable, his inclusion would not make me any more excited about the game.

 

[Noler_Mass]

My gripe with Waluigi is that he never carried the importance a primary protagonist or antagonist has and always felt more like a side character. While I am not against Waluigi being playable, his inclusion would not make me any more excited about the game.

A gripe that has been well vocalized and likely will be the reason he will stay an assist trophy. I think he makes a good assist trophy too.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

http://smashboards.com/threads/roster-prediction-display-thread.324220/page-4#post-15509928 part of it isn't serious. I can probably do a better job if I'm attempting serious, and would probably predict closer to 45-50, but bash as you all want!

Also when it comes to Waluigi, especially considering what else the Wario series has and we don't see much of an indication of him outside the sports/etc titles, I don't really feel it. Toad/Bowser appear as often as he does in that stuff and Paper Mario or a Mario RPG Representative could be better, so meh.

edit:

Mario Party 3. Main villain.
DDR Mario Mix. Main villain/plot-driving villain.

If that doesn't count, then Bowser Jr. has never been a main character either.

Super. Mario. Sunshine. Before you say anything about Bowser, he doesn't even appear until the end of the game and you fight Bowser Jr a grand total of Twelve times (7 regular chases in levels, 4 chases in the plaza, 1 fight in Pinna Park Episode 4, and Chrona Mountain)

edit: Also I Mastered DDR Mario Mix on both pad and controller and I don't remember Waluigi being the main villain; I remember that as Bowser. Bowser Jr's usually (though, not all the time) had a second-in command role. I will admit though, in say, NSMB, it's not much compared to the Koopalings

 

[Deleted member]

While the roster is pretty unrealistic, I do have to say that I'd like it. My only complaints would be replacing Pokémon Trainer's Red with a 6th gen (which I find to be unnecessary), too many third-parties (Chocobo and Rayman should be cut out) and Daroach.

Anyway, glad to have you back and heard good things from you.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

While the roster is pretty unrealistic, I do have to say that I'd like it. My only complaints would be replacing Pokémon Trainer's Red with a 6th gen (which I find to be unnecessary), too many third-parties (Chocobo and Rayman should be cut out) and Daroach.

Anyway, glad to have you back and heard good things from you.

PT sixth gen is a good idea in the case of not having to cut anything. We get the best of essentially all with mostly returning characters. Only problem is sixth gen could also end out as bland. Granted, there's other possibilities with PT as well, and if we just got Lucario or some 6th gen rep, it wouldn't be bad at all to keep PT the same.

If I were to cut five characters, it'd easily be Daroach, Captain Syrup, Kamek, Chocobo, and Rayman. Probably Glitterem (Joke from a friend) too; I kinda forget my Zelda series stuff and Impa or even Toon Zelda could be better. Luke/Megaman (Or hell Lloyd, but if that PS3 Tales of Symphonia collection holds any weight...) really just seem to fit the roster and Snake/Sonic I firmly believe should stay in, even if licensing rights.

Yeah I remember you as well. Were you in any other popular threads? And that's neat to hear that you've heard good things from me!

 

[Deleted member]

Super. Mario. Sunshine. Before you say anything about Bowser, he doesn't even appear until the end of the game and you fight Bowser Jr a grand total of Twelve times (7 regular chases in levels, 4 chases in the plaza, 1 fight in Pinna Park Episode 4, and Chrona Mountain)

By FourStar's logic, Bowser Jr. is not a "main character". Not mine.

Also I Mastered DDR Mario Mix on both pad and controller and I don't remember Waluigi being the main villain; I remember that as Bowser. Bowser Jr's usually (though, not all the time) had a second-in command role. I will admit though, in say, NSMB, it's not much compared to the Koopalings

You remembered wrong.
Bowser just comes in at the very end after you pretty much undo all the damage Waluigi has done just because he was tone deaf and wanted to use the Music Keys to help with his problem.
Waluigi is the one that sets up the plot by stealing the Music Keys in order to take over the Mushroom Kingdom with his superior dancing skills, and even though you defeat him early on, you still have more to do as a result of his actions, since he (wisely) kept only one of the Music Keys for himself and hid the other three.

So yeah, Waluigi is the main villain/plot-driving villain. Bowser's just the obligatory final boss with little importance to the plot.

 

[Deleted member]

PT sixth gen is a good idea in the case of not having to cut anything. We get the best of essentially all with mostly returning characters. Only problem is sixth gen could also end out as bland. Granted, there's other possibilities with PT as well, and if we just got Lucario or some 6th gen rep, it wouldn't be bad at all to keep PT the same.

Cutting the Pokémon Trainer we have for a 6th gen rep would result in more work being done than is needed, especially when most people would prefer to keep the ones we have. As for a 6th gen rep, Mewtwo would work better as one as he could use his new form in the game (preferably as a transformation). Therefore, it would satisfy the vast majority of people and we get our 6th gen character representation if we kept Brawl's roster and added Mewtwo with his new form. I feel as aside from Mewtwo's form (which I'm betting on happening), 5th/6th gen will be represented towards other means (stages, music, Pokéball and bosses).

If I were to cut five characters, it'd easily be Daroach, Captain Syrup, Kamek, Chocobo, and Rayman. Probably Glitterem (Joke from a friend) too; I kinda forget my Zelda series stuff and Impa or even Toon Zelda could be better. Luke/Megaman (Or hell Lloyd, but if that PS3 Tales of Symphonia collection holds any weight...) really just seem to fit the roster and Snake/Sonic I firmly believe should stay in, even if licensing rights.

Yeah, those five are good cut choices since I really don't see them happening. Your third-party choices aside from that are good, although I do think that if we get a Tales rep, it's going to come down to either Lloyd or Cress (who is seen as the face of Tales in Japan and is probably the most important character).

Yeah I remember you as well. Were you in any other popular threads? And that's neat to hear that you've heard good things from me!

I wasn't around pre-Brawl (although I did check the DOJO!! and was super hyped for the game despite not really wanting specific characters at the time). I did make a few posts back in March-April, 2010 on the very old Smash 4 thread you used to post on, but I didn't start actively speculating until right before E3 2011 started (on that same thread, just before it closed and moved on to the Wii-U thread in the Brawl General Discussion thread, which also got closed).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

By FourStar's logic, Bowser Jr. is not a "main character". Not mine.

I decided to roll with posting that anyways just to point out that he HAS had quite a major appearence, not to discredit you or anything. I'm not the type of guy to do that - I just always like injecting more into discussions.

You remembered wrong.
Bowser just comes in at the very end after you pretty much undo all the damage Waluigi has done just because he was tone deaf and wanted to use the Music Keys to help with his problem.
Waluigi is the one that sets up the plot by stealing the Music Keys in order to take over the Mushroom Kingdom with his superior dancing skills, and even though you defeat him early on, you still have more to do as a result of his actions, since he (wisely) kept only one of the Music Keys for himself and hid the other three.

So yeah, Waluigi is the main villain/plot-driving villain. Bowser's just the obligatory final boss with little importance to the plot.

Eh... I guess I can see where you're coming from with that. Not by much, but yeah. (Even I noticed his MP3 appearence far better)

Cutting the Pokémon Trainer we have for a 6th gen rep would result in more work being done than is needed, especially when most people would prefer to keep the ones we have. As for a 6th gen rep, Mewtwo would work better as one as he could use his new form in the game (preferably as a transformation). Therefore, it would satisfy the vast majority of people and we get our 6th gen character representation if we kept Brawl's roster and added Mewtwo with his new form. I feel as aside from Mewtwo's form (which I'm betting on happening), 5th/6th gen will be represented towards other means (stages, music, Pokéball and bosses).

Yeah that's true. It'd be better if kept that way.

Yeah, those five are good cut choices since I really don't see them happening. Your third-party choices aside from that are good, although I do think that if we get a Tales rep, it's going to come down to either Lloyd or Cress (who is seen as the face of Tales in Japan and is probably the most important character).

Oh and Geno. Though if you hate Geno, just pretend Bowser Jr isn't there. (Also Daroach would make a good Assist Trophy)

Cress? As much as Cress is important, for a third-party, I don't see it being Japan only. Luke is pretty plausible but yeah, Luke or Lloyd from Namco-Bandai really.

I wasn't around pre-Brawl (although I did check the DOJO!! and was super hyped for the game despite not really wanting specific characters at the time). I did make a few posts back in March-April, 2010 on the very old Smash 4 thread you used to post on, but I didn't start actively speculating until right before E3 2011 started (on that same thread, just before it closed and moved on to the Wii-U thread in the Brawl General Discussion thread, which also got closed).

That's cool! It's nice to be remembered around many Smash communities. Then again, I have a very golden tongue with my posts and my points. I've been talking Smash characters, speculating, and digging up old articles for a long time so hitting on stuff in this thread is like nothing.

Shame I wasn't part of the second thread, but I'm glad to be back. The community here is nice, and I'm gonna give my hand in it as much as I can. I'd actually love to get back into community management at a community.[/quote]

 

[---]

That's cool! It's nice to be remembered around many Smash communities. Then again, I have a very golden tongue with my posts and my points. I've been talking Smash characters, speculating, and digging up old articles for a long time so hitting on stuff in this thread is like nothing.

Shame I wasn't part of the second thread, but I'm glad to be back. The community here is nice, and I'm gonna give my hand in it as much as I can.

Forgive me for my intrusion, but it's nice to see you posting again. To be fair I never posted during the earliest thread, but Shortiecanbrawl among others have been hyping your return for some time so welcome back and nice to meet ya.

Though to be fair you didn't miss much on the second thread.

I'd actually love to get back into community management at a community.

As the previous leader of the main social group for the second thread, "Over my dead body!"

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Forgive me for my intrusion, but it's nice to see you posting again. To be fair I never posted during the earliest thread, but Shortiecanbrawl among others have been hyping your return for some time so welcome back and nice to meet ya.

Though to be fair you didn't miss much on the second thread.

Wow, really? Crazy the thigns I miss.

Oh well about the second thread. I'm already making a crash here and interested to see more people comment on what I've already done with my roster. Is there a Masked Man support thread yet?

As the previous leader of the main social group for the second thread, "Over my dead body!"

I mean more like at least as maybe a mod or something of one of the communities I'm a part of

 

[---]

Wow, really? Crazy the thigns I miss.

Oh well about the second thread. I'm already making a crash here and interested to see more people comment on what I've already done with my roster. Is there a Masked Man support thread yet?

Second thread was fun but there was often more derp than speculation.

As for Masked Man yes there is already a thread for that.

I mean more like at least as maybe a mod or something of one of the communities I'm a part of

Oh good, I thought the people were revolting.

Should probably ask Mario_Sonic or the admins about that. Honestly Mario_Sonic is the only active mod here (there are supposed to be others but M_S is the only one who actually does his job) and with E3 coming I would imagine such a job opening is available.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Second thread was fun but there was often more derp than speculation.

As for Masked Man yes there is already a thread for that.

Kinda glad I missed that. I like intelligent discussions. ToiseOfChoice, Fatmanonice, and others were really fun last thread. Hopefully we can all keep the fun going now around here

ITS THREAD BUMP TIME.

Oh good, I thought the people were revolting.

Should probably ask Mario_Sonic or the admins about that. Honestly Mario_Sonic is the only active mod here (there are supposed to be others but M_S is the only one who actually does his job) and with E3 coming I would imagine such a job opening is available.

I guess. It'd be kind of weird to go "Hey can I mod on your forum", especially with all things considered, but I can at least try. Thanks for telling me who's the head-honcho around these parts.

 

[FourStar]

By FourStar's logic, Bowser Jr. is not a "main character". Not mine..

um my logic? excuse me but its common knowledge that bowser is the MAIN VILLAIN in the mario series. just saying

 

[FourStar]

"Don't count because those are Mario spinoff games".
That's always been a bull**** reason for anything. It's clear Sakurai doesn't give a flying **** about whether the game is a "spin-off" or a "main" game. (And since Mario has no established canon and the characters are compared to a troupe of actors by Miyamoto, it's frigging impossible to state which ones are "main" and which ones are "spin-off". Even more so when you realize that the Mario series is entirely a spin-off franchise. Super Mario Bros. is a spin-off of the Mario Bros. arcade game, which in turn is a spin-off of the original Donkey Kong arcade game.) If he did, things would be a lot different for how the series is represented in Smash (especially Brawl).

By your logic, there is no Mario character that will make it in, since no one else has been a "main character" in a "main" game.
Hell, Bowser isn't a "main character", so he should be cut. He's only been a villain in the "main" games.
Same with Peach. Just a damsel-in-distress in the "main" games. (Not counting SMB2, since that was just a dream and is kind of a spin-off in itself since it isn't the real SMB2.)

Mario and Luigi have been main characters frequently. And as of recent, Blue Toad and Yellow Toad, so they should be in.

oh another thing. Peach has had her own games to you know. if you think about every current mario character to date, they play signifcant role in any of the super mario games.
Mario- main character
Luigi- can be played as the main character in super mario 2 and 3
Peach- the love interest of mario who is playable in super mario 2. she also has her own games as well
Bowser- main villain in every game

Now that you see my logic now character like toad could be included in the new game:
Toad- playable in Super mario 2 and helps mario along the way in every game

as for Wario? well he did have his own game series, wario ware.
if you don't agree with my logic, that's fine, but i made my point and i have seen yours. lets just end it here and call it a day

 

[Deleted member]

Oh and Geno. Though if you hate Geno, just pretend Bowser Jr isn't there. (Also Daroach would make a good Assist Trophy)

On the contrary, I would love to see Geno, although he's extremely unlikely to get in.

Cress? As much as Cress is important, for a third-party, I don't see it being Japan only. Luke is pretty plausible but yeah, Luke or Lloyd from Namco-Bandai really.

Tales of Phantasia did get a GBA port released internationally, so he's no longer Japan-only.

That's cool! It's nice to be remembered around many Smash communities. Then again, I have a very golden tongue with my posts and my points. I've been talking Smash characters, speculating, and digging up old articles for a long time so hitting on stuff in this thread is like nothing.

Shame I wasn't part of the second thread, but I'm glad to be back. The community here is nice, and I'm gonna give my hand in it as much as I can. I'd actually love to get back into community management at a community.

I really look forward to seeing you this round, it should be interesting to see what happens once E3 arrives.

Should probably ask Mario_Sonic or the admins about that. Honestly Mario_Sonic is the only active mod here (there are supposed to be others but M_S is the only one who actually does his job) and with E3 coming I would imagine such a job opening is available.

I really want to become a mod around these parts. Especially with E3 coming as they'll need more than one competent mod around here.

 

[Deleted member]

oh another thing. Peach has had her own games to you know. if you think about every current mario character to date, they play signifcant role in any of the super mario games.
Mario- main character
Luigi- can be played as the main character in super mario 2 and 3
Peach- the love interest of mario who is playable in super mario 2. she also has her own games as well
Bowser- main villain in every game

Now that you see my logic now character like toad could be included in the new game:
Toad- playable in Super mario 2 and helps mario along the way in every game

as for Wario? well he did have his own game series, wario ware.
if you don't agree with my logic, that's fine, but i made my point and i have seen yours. lets just end it here and call it a day

Your logic conflicts with itself to the point that there is no consistency and it falls apart.
In other words: There is no logic.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I really want to become a mod around these parts. Especially with E3 coming as they'll need more than one competent mod around here.

I would like to become a mod too, but I bet nobody else will agree on that.

 

[FourStar]

Your logic conflicts with itself to the point that there is no consistency and it falls apart.
In other words: There is no logic.

i'm sorry but what the **** are you talking about. where is my ****ing logic flawed?

 

[Deleted member]

i'm sorry but what the **** are you talking about. where is my ****ing logic flawed?

First, swearing a lot doesn't make you look cool nor mature, so knock it off.

Second, your logic is that Waluigi's roles as the main villain don't count because "those roles are in spin-offs", yet you list spin-offs in support of other characters.
Super Princess Peach is a spin-off.
SMB2 (otherwise known as Super Mario Bros. USA) is a spin-off. (That takes place in Mario's dreams, btw.)

By your logic, they don't count. To make exceptions for them is to be biased.

Toad has never been a main character in that regard; only two other members of his race with generic names; Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. The only games where Toad himself has been a main character were SMB2 and Wario's Woods; both being spin-offs.
Conversely, you say that Bowser Jr. doesn't count as a main character, and yet he's been the main villain of Sunshine and essentially New Super Mario Bros. and has typically been Bowser's right-hand man since with some exceptions (Super Mario 3D Land and New Super Mario Bros. 2).
So by that logic, Bowser HIMSELF is not a "main character" because he's only a villain, and not a playable character.
Same logic would apply to Peach, who's only had spin-off roles as anything but a damsel in distress. At which point, if Peach counts, we can count Daisy as well since she's been a damsel in distress in Super Mario Land.

And then we get to the elephant of the room, Wario. By your logic, he should not be in Brawl; especially not in WarioWare style.
WarioWare is the ultimate spin-off, as it's a spin-off of Wario Land, which is a spin-off of Super Mario Land, which is a spin-off of Super Mario Bros., which is a spin-off of Mario Bros. for the arcade, which is a spin-off of the original arcade Donkey Kong.

It falls apart even further when you consider that Dr. Mario was playable in Super Smash Bros. Melee and planned to return for Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
Dr. Mario is a spin-off, yet it got a character.
So really, Sakurai doesn't care about "main" vs. "spin-off". Even then, the entire Mario series is one big continuity and a spin-off in itself once you realize the series' origin.

 

[FourStar]

First, swearing a lot doesn't make you look cool nor mature, so knock it off.

Second, your logic is that Waluigi's roles as the main villain don't count because "those roles are in spin-offs", yet you list spin-offs in support of other characters.
Super Princess Peach is a spin-off.
SMB2 (otherwise known as Super Mario Bros. USA) is a spin-off. (That takes place in Mario's dreams, btw.)

By your logic, they don't count. To make exceptions for them is to be biased.

Toad has never been a main character in that regard; only two other members of his race with generic names; Blue Toad and Yellow Toad. The only games where Toad himself has been a main character were SMB2 and Wario's Woods; both being spin-offs.
Conversely, you say that Bowser Jr. doesn't count as a main character, and yet he's been the main villain of Sunshine and essentially New Super Mario Bros. and has typically been Bowser's right-hand man since with some exceptions (Super Mario 3D Land and New Super Mario Bros. 2).
So by that logic, Bowser HIMSELF is not a "main character" because he's only a villain, and not a playable character.
Same logic would apply to Peach, who's only had spin-off roles as anything but a damsel in distress. At which point, if Peach counts, we can count Daisy as well since she's been a damsel in distress in Super Mario Land.

And then we get to the elephant of the room, Wario. By your logic, he should not be in Brawl; especially not in WarioWare style.
WarioWare is the ultimate spin-off, as it's a spin-off of Wario Land, which is a spin-off of Super Mario Land, which is a spin-off of Super Mario Bros., which is a spin-off of Mario Bros. for the arcade, which is a spin-off of the original arcade Donkey Kong.

It falls apart even further when you consider that Dr. Mario was playable in Super Smash Bros. Melee and planned to return for Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
Dr. Mario is a spin-off, yet it got a character.
So really, Sakurai doesn't care about "main" vs. "spin-off". Even then, the entire Mario series is one big continuity and a spin-off in itself once you realize the series' origin.

omfg....... ok fine if you're going to say they are spinoff then yes they are spinoffs. fair enough
BUT THEY ARE THE MAIN CHARACTER OF THAT SPINOFF
and super mario bros 2 is not a spinoff. it is not recognized in high reagard like SMB 1 or 3 but it is still part of that series.

as for toad i can see you're point but he was a playable character in SMB2 and as you can say is Mario's assisntant/ right hand man

BOwser junior i did not know that about sunshine or new super mario bros so i guess he can be considered.

WARIO WARE IS ITS OWN SERIES DIP****

dr. mario.... we are talking about current characters not characters from melee. and even though it was spinoff were they using the same logic? like how pichu made it into the melee even though he does not have that much relevance in pokemon like mewtwo or pikachu

i mean we can argue for days dude but i'm dropping the conversation for good

 

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I really want to become a mod around these parts. Especially with E3 coming as they'll need more than one competent mod around here.

Same here but it's something that I'm not going to dwell on or start begging for. Honestly most of the vets of the speculation community would make for great mods like Mario_Sonic has and I'd personally vouch for many of them. Main thing is we need some more mods around here come E3.

Back on topic though, out of curiosity I'd like to see how the old Discussion Group roster holds up (personally my roster has changed but I don't have it finished just yet):

 

[Deleted member]

WARIO WARE IS ITS OWN SERIES DIP****

WarioWare is a spin-off. It spun off of the Wario Land series which in turn spun off of Mario's series.

Understand that, and either grow up or leave SmashBoards until you are of the legal age to have an account. Clearly you are under 13.

 

[Deleted member]

Same here but it's something that I'm not going to dwell on or start begging for. Honestly most of the vets of the speculation community would make for great mods like Mario_Sonic has and I'd personally vouch for many of them. Main thing is we need some more mods around here come E3.

Back on topic though, out of curiosity I'd like to see how the old Discussion Group roster holds up (personally my roster has changed but I don't have it finished just yet):

Pretty much everyone here has a realistic shot of getting in, the sole exception being Zoroark (due to losing the main thing going for him; mascot of the latest gen). I actually do think you'll hit pretty close to the final roster for the game.

 

[Deleted member]

And even then, it may be that Zoroark wasn't the mascot anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

And even then, it may be that Zoroark wasn't the mascot anyway.

I remember those debates in whenever or not Zoroark or Victini were the mascot. If Victini had been pushed as the definitive face of Gen 5 like Lucario was, it might have had a realistic shot of getting in Smash even if it was no longer the face of Gen 5. Not that I'm complaining, but Victini's popularity could have been much larger than it ultimately was.