Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FlareHabanero]

Well the thing about surprises is that it's supposed to be a surprise. In other words, impossible to predict. We might throw out names, but that wouldn't exactly keep the suspense of surprise in check. Further emphasis if you're ignoring third party choices.

 

[ChronoBound]

Curious to hear what day of the week you guys think Smash 4 will be revealed. Keep in mind Brawl was not unveiled at Nintendo's E3 conference on Tuesday in 2006. Brawl was unveiled on a Wednesday. So if Smash 4 follows a similar pattern, there is literally another four weeks until Smash 4 is unveiled.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm thinking June 11th is when Smash 4 gets unveiled.

 

[ChronoBound]

I remember when Smash Bros. 3 was not unveiled at Nintendo's E3 2006 conference there was a whole bunch of anger and vitriol, and lots of people were saying Nintendo dropped the ball. I bet the reaction is going to be much worse if we don't get Smash 4 at the conference that Reggie and Miyamoto are hosting.

 

[BKupa666]

Do we know the date(s) of Nintendo's presentation(s) yet?

 

[FourStar]

i thought nintendo didn't have a conference?

 

[N3ON]

I doubt that popularity is going to be a factor for inclusion for retros this time around. Sure Takamaru might be the most demands for a retro, but considering that he's still relatively uncommonly requested by people in general, that doesn't say much (this goes for Japan as well in where they're even less requested). Not that this hurts Takamaru, but it isn't a factor against other retros as well.

I don't see why popularity wouldn't play some factor, it did for Pit. I didn't mean to give the impression I thought it was the only important thing for retros, and Sakurai might put importance on other aspects more, but there's really no reason to think that even though popularity mattered last time it won't this time. And I meant Takamaru had popularity compared to other retros, not in general.

I'm not sure why we can't have two retro characters this time around. We've gotten two retros back in Melee and Brawl and it can easily happen again (and not because of a "pattern"). Sure Mach Rider is less likely than Takamaru, but he does have the advantage of Sakurai's bias. I also think that Mach Rider is going to be the series that Sakurai is looking at reviving considering that Takamaru's series will most likely receive a revival with Platinum Games (who has expressed interest in making a new game). Unlike Takamaru, Mach Rider as a character has also not been revived, so he's even more of a clean slate than Takamaru. I'd say that Takamaru is extremely likely to get in and Mach Rider has a good shot as well.

In the past one retro has been along the lines of Takamaru or Mach Rider, but the other has seemed to have some historical importance or connection to hardware, which neither Takamaru or Mach Rider really have, so... yeah we have gotten two retros in the past, but one of the two likely was added for something other than just being a retro, which is all these two can really claim to be. I don't doubt that we might get two retros again, but I think one of the two would be along the lines of G&W or ROB while the other (Takamaru or Mach Rider) would be comparable to Ice Climbers or Pit.

And I doubt Sakurai has actually made plans to make a revival game, he's just chosen a character that is capable of having a series revival, like Pit. In the statement all he said was the series would be like Kid Icarus in that it could be revived, not that he actually had plans to revive a series. Uprising itself wasn't planned by Sakurai when he chose Pit for Brawl, I'd say it's unlikely he actually has plans to revive the character himself. At least at this point. So really the character in question is likely just a character that could see a revival, not one that will necessarily see one by Sakurai's hand, which really could apply to both Takamaru and Mach Rider. Also, Sakurai has waited at least two games to actually act on his bias, there's really nothing to say he'd act on it this time either.

I'm not saying Mach Rider doesn't have a shot, I just don't think we'll get both him and Takamaru.

While Duck Hunt Dog doesn't have a shot in hell, it won't be due to a lack of requests. Same argument could apply to R.O.B as well as he was barely requested, yet got in.

I was just arguing that DHD's potential inclusion wouldn't cause as much hype or demand as other characters, which volbound claimed it would. I agree there's more to inclusion than demand, but that's the aspect the argument was focusing on.

 

[Banjodorf]

Honestly, DHD seems more like a WTF character along the lines of G&W and ROB. Sure, we have our conceptions about the Duck Hunt Dog, but does Sakurai recognize him as enough of his own character to be in before Takamaru or even Rider? I doubt it. So if he were to be in, it'd likely be because he thought it was a random enough choice.

Besides, I seem to recall Sakurai already stating he was anxious to revive a particular retro character. My money's been on Takamaru since that statement, and even if I'm just making stuff up, my money's still on Takamaru.

 

[8-peacock-8]

i thought nintendo didn't have a conference?

They don't. However, they will still show off their new games.

 

[Vintage Creep]

They still have a small conference pre-E3 with Reggie and Miya

 

[volbound1700]

I cringed when I read that. Do your research. Fire Emblem is based on medieval EUROPE. There is absolutely NOTHING japanese in those games, (except the language. )

The outfits they are wearing are not Medieval European outfits lol.

Lyn uses a Samurai Sword as an attack in Brawl. That is not a EUROPEAN style sword. Take a look at a Knight Templar Crusader or a Medieval Knight and then look at Marth, Lyn, Ike, and Roy, they have NOTHING in common.

Lyn on the other hand resembles an unarmored Japanese Samurai (only female).

 

[Frostwraith]

The outfits they are wearing are not Medieval European outfits lol.

Based on =/= equal to.

That may not be the case for Marth, Roy and Ike, but most units of the Paladin, Halberdier and General classes have Medieval European-inspired armor.
Heck, Roy has shoulder pads very much inspired by European armor. The Castle Siege stage in Brawl is pretty much a dead giveaway that Fire Emblem is heavily inspired by Medieval Europe.

Sounds like you haven't played Fire Emblem, so you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[volbound1700]

Based on =/= equal to.

That may not be the case for Marth, Roy and Ike, but most units of the Paladin, Halberdier and General classes have Medieval European-inspired armor.
Heck, Roy has shoulder pads very much inspired by European armor. The Castle Siege stage in Brawl is pretty much a dead giveaway that Fire Emblem is heavily inspired by Medieval Europe.

Sounds like you haven't played Fire Emblem, so you don't know what you're talking about.

I haven't but Lyn from Brawl had equipment, sword, etc. of a Samurai. My point being even outside of FE, there is plenty of Ninja/Samurai themed characters out there that Nintendo can draw from. Arguable Sheik also fits this criteria.

FE characters in Smash remind me of Final Fantasy in that they drew elements from both Japanese, European, Chinese, and Arab medieval cultures.

Also the Japanese Samurai and Knight have beem compared often because they both were a warrior class of nobility that aspired for honor and courage. They were both signature fighting units of the medieval world as well. Both could fight on horse primarily as calvary units or on foot as heavy infantry. They both had a chivalric code. Obviously in look they were not similar but in their basic function for their societies, they were very similar and Feudal Japan resembled Feudal Europe heavily. Most historians would tell you this fact.



I will end the argument here by pointing out a fact for Takamaru that makes him vastly superior to DHD unfortunately. Takamaru can easily be remade for a new series while Duck Hunt would be very hard to be made into a modern series since most the people drawn to it would go for REAL hunting games that are already out. Takamaru's series could easily become Nintendo's Shinobi and I could see it being popular. If Sakurai wants a character that he could eventual sale a new series with like Pit, Takamaru fits that perfectly.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I wouldn't say Fire Emblem is entirely inspired by medieval Europe. The games do take occasional liberties from time to time., like in Fire Emblem: Awakening the characters Say'ri and Len'fay wear clothing more reminiscent to samurai attire then knight armor.

 

[volbound1700]

I wouldn't say Fire Emblem is entirely inspired by medieval Europe. The games do take occasional liberties from time to time., like in Fire Emblem: Awakening the characters Say'ri and Len'fay wear clothing more reminiscent to samurai attire then knight armor.

Well taking just Marth and Roy, their attacks resembling more the Asian style fighting with the slashes. European strategy revolved around larger swords swinging down to cut or simply stabs using the shield to parry. A Roman Legionary for example would ram his shield into and then stab you in the belly. Crusaders often focused on a sword over the head down blow or the simply shield hit and stab strategy.

The swings used by Marth and Roy are very much Japanese/Samurai style attacks although the swords are not Japanese, I will grant you that. Also the armor and clothing is not European in any style or fashion for either character.

Ike does resemble more European style fighting with his attacks. I will grant you that. Especially the overpowering swings as Europeans (especially northern Europeans) often relied on brunt force to overpower their opponent.

 

[Frostwraith]

I haven't but Lyn from Brawl had equipment, sword, etc. of a Samurai. My point being even outside of FE, there is plenty of Ninja/Samurai themed characters out there that Nintendo can draw from. Arguable Sheik also fits this criteria.

Lyn and units of the Swordmaster class are the notable exceptions in FE. But even so, swordmasters still vaguely resemble samurais.

The only thing Japanese in Fire Emblem are the katanas. All the remainder weapons are European inspired.

Judging the whole FE series based on the few characters in Brawl is not going to give you a good view of the whole Fire Emblem universe, so I suggest you play a Fire Emblem game. Most mythological references in Fire Emblem are European, including allusions to Greek and Nordic mythologies.

Ninjas =/= samurais, still. Sheik fits the ninja role. Heck, all Sheikah in Zelda are similar to ninjas.

FE characters in Smash remind me of Final Fantasy in that they drew elements from both Japanese, European, Chinese, and Arab medieval cultures.

Don't judge FE based on the characters in Smash. Play a Fire Emblem game.

Also the Japanese Samurai and Knight have beem compared often because they both were a warrior class of nobility that aspired for honor and courage. They were both signature fighting units of the medieval world as well. Both could fight on horse primarily as calvary units or on foot as heavy infantry. They both had a chivalric code. Obviously in look they were not similar but in their basic function for their societies, they were very similar and Feudal Japan resembled Feudal Europe heavily. Most historians would tell you this fact.

That is irrelevant when it comes to fighting style.

The fighting style of an European knight is completely different from the fighting style of a samurai, regardless of similar honor codes and such.

I will end the argument here by pointing out a fact for Takamaru that makes him vastly superior to DHD unfortunately. Takamaru can easily be remade for a new series while Duck Hunt would be very hard to be made into a modern series since most the people drawn to it would go for REAL hunting games that are already out. Takamaru's series could easily become Nintendo's Shinobi and I could see it being popular. If Sakurai wants a character that he could eventual sale a new series with like Pit, Takamaru fits that perfectly.

Takamaru is a more interesting character than DHD. At least, you got that. Using logic instead of bias has its benefits, after all.

Takamaru could easily be "the new Pit." There are developers that demonstrated interest in rebooting the Murasame Castle series, Takamaru cameo'd in Samurai Warriors 3 for the Wii and Nintendo Land had an attraction based on the Murasame Castle.

Things are looking good for Takamaru to appear as a newcomer and possibly have a new game.

 

[volbound1700]

I didn't say Takamaru is a "more interesting" than DHD. I said he had more potential outside of Smash and is a better character to reboot. When it comes to a character I would rather play for Smash, I would choose DHD in a heartbeat. The Medieval swordfighter role seems to already fit with Marth, Roy, and even Link (who definitely borrows heavily from European fighting).

DHD would be a crazy moveset along the same lines as Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah, most of my conversations involve potential, but it ends up being argued by opinions about the character.

 

[Frostwraith]

The Medieval swordfighter role seems to already fit with Marth, Roy, and even Link (who definitely borrows heavily from European fighting).

Helloooo? What's the part of "Takamaru would use a Japanese fencing style" you haven't understood yet?

DHD could be a (Lethal) Joke Character or a Fighting Clown, but we already have these kinds of characters in Jigglypuff, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch.

Being a samurai, Takamaru would bring Japanese fencing as a combat style to Smash and grant more variety to the roster.

A samurai character has that "badass" characteristic that attracts more people to play as. The reaction to Takamaru could be: "I don't know who the hell is this guy, but he looks badass!" and that makes the character more interesting. Sakurai has said that characters must make people want to play as them and Takamaru fits the bill.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Helloooo? What's the part of "Takamaru would use a Japanese fencing style" you haven't understood yet?

DHD could be a (Lethal) Joke Character or a Fighting Clown, but we already have these kinds of characters in Jigglypuff, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch.

Being a samurai, Takamaru would bring Japanese fencing as a combat style to Smash and grant more variety to the roster.

A samurai character has that "badass" characteristic that attracts more people to play as. The reaction to Takamaru could be: "I don't know who the hell is this guy, but he looks badass!" and that makes the character more interesting. Sakurai has said that characters must make people want to play as them and Takamaru fits the bill.

You can never run out of jokes.

 

[FalKoopa]

Lol, the argument is still going on?

 

[8-peacock-8]

Now two completely different sword styles are the same? Wat?

 

[volbound1700]

BluePikmin11 is right, now we are all at opinions.

I will agree with you Frostwraith on one thing that Takamaru likely has a better chance of being in Smash 4 than DHD. However, I disagree on the point that players may be more excited about Takamaru then DHD and I also disagree that Takamaru is a shoe-in. There is some players that will react and say "Not another sword fighting medieval character."

However, based on posts people have made including yourself talking about how Sakurai wants to revive another series, that makes Takamaru look more likely because obviously his series would be far better to revive then Duck Hunt and that was the point I was making. Smash would be a great opportunity to advertise Takamaru and make him known to the world. To be honest, Takamaru would be a fun character to play as well as DHD to me. I really like how Smash Crusade did DHD and I can play him with that game .

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Takamaru isn't a medieval swordfighter though. As far as I know, most of the sword users this time around aren't. The only medievalish sword users that are really requested are Roy and Chrom as far as I know.

Takamaru represents a samurai, Lloyd Irving is iffy (started playing ToS. He is awesome, and @volbound he is nothing like a Fire Emblem character, I assure you) Shulk is clearly not a medieval sword user. Uh...who else is there? I'm drawing a blank.

 

[N3ON]

Isaac could be seen as a medieval-ish sword user, but considering he also can do magic and stuff, it's not like his moveset would have any sort of realism to it.

Also, Saki, Goroh, and I guess some people would also throw in Ghirahim. None of which are medieval swords users.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So basically the point is, outside of Fire Emblem, there isn't a surplus of Medieval sword fighters.

 

[8-peacock-8]

So basically the point is, outside of Fire Emblem, there isn't a surplus of Medieval sword fighters.

Yep

 

[FourStar]

can we get like dragon age characters from japan in SSB5?

 

[FlareHabanero]

However, I disagree on the point that players may be more excited about Takamaru then DHD and I also disagree that Takamaru is a shoe-in. There is some players that will react and say "Not another sword fighting medieval character."

Still don't see how people would be thrilled with that dog from Duck Hunt, you know a character that is pretty infamous to begin with for being a snarky prick. While there might be a novelty for a while about having the opportunity to beat up the mutt with everything but the kitchen sink, that's not exactly going to save the character from receiving criticism. While the character is a known figure, it doesn't mean it's a well received figure. I can guarantee that the dog won't exactly settle with people in the long run.

Also for the love of gumbo stop thinking that every character that uses a sword is going to be duller then Chrom. Judging by what form of weapon they use is a sign of poor judgement.

 

[FourStar]

i've never been a fan of duck hunt character wise. but stage wise it would be soooo sick

 

[volbound1700]

Takamaru isn't a medieval swordfighter though. As far as I know, most of the sword users this time around aren't. The only medievalish sword users that are really requested are Roy and Chrom as far as I know.

Takamaru represents a samurai, Lloyd Irving is iffy (started playing ToS. He is awesome, and @volbound he is nothing like a Fire Emblem character, I assure you) Shulk is clearly not a medieval sword user. Uh...who else is there? I'm drawing a blank.

Samurai is medievaal sword user... just not European . I actually meant it that way. Oh well I am ready to move on in topic and I can see some value in Takamaru being in the game so you guys did pull me over to at least the "Likely" category for him. I think it was N3ON that pointed out during Melee Sakurai reference Takamaru.

I would still prefer DHD. At this point we are all at personal opinions.

I need to play Fire Emblem. I just haven't had the chance to go shopping for video games lately.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Honestly, Duck Hunt would be better represented as a stage or a type of mini game to get trophies. Like others have said, a playable character wouldn't be a good choice in the long run.

 

[Croph]

The swings used by Marth and Roy are very much Japanese/Samurai style attacks although the swords are not Japanese, I will grant you that. Also the armor and clothing is not European in any style or fashion for either character.

This is what I was trying to get at actually. I remember reading someone's post on I think Neogaf explaining how Roy's swordplay draws from the Japanese sword arts (don't know if it's true, but it was interesting). I'm going to post my question in the Roy thread, since I don't want to derail this place. =P

So, we on DHD? I used to have him on my roster, but now I dropped him, for some reason. Though, seeing him as part of a stage or as an AT would be cool. I think it would be nice to see Duck Hunt represented in some way. Duck Hunt does have a long history with Nintendo.

 

[3Bismyname]

DHD is best repped thru an AT. he's definately a character worth mentioning in this game, but being a full fledged character just does not sit well with me.

 

[_R@bid_]

I'm pretty sure that if Sakurai put DHD in, he'd get the same sort of reaction we have with jigglypuff. There'd be plenty of people thinking he should be cut, he's stupid, et cetera. It'd be the very opposite of hype. Retros work better when they innately appeal to players even when they have no idea WTF they are.
However, he would make an awesome AT. IMO, most joke characters are better that way, since you'd don't get complaints that way. Look at Waluigi and Tingle. Both make for great, trolly ATs( like most should be,since it really fits the nature of ATs themselves).

 

[Noler_Mass]

While I think DHD is a huge icon of Nintendo and jazz, I personally think he won't even be taken under consideration as a character. I think he will make a great behind the scenes character for a duck hunt stage which would be sick, but tbh he doesn't do anything in the game other than laugh. All the movesets I've seen are really stretching his capabilities and usually involve a third party shooting at the screen which would feel really odd if you were using him. It would be stellar for a stage gimmick though.

As for lyn, she is a nomad. So don't quote me on this but it seems that she takes influence on middle eastern fighting especially like the Ottoman Empire comes to mind, but she's definetly not a samurai.

 

[ssbHex]

I'm pretty sure that if Sakurai put DHD in, he'd get the same sort of reaction we have with jigglypuff. There'd be plenty of people thinking he should be cut, he's stupid, et cetera. It'd be the very opposite of hype. Retros work better when they innately appeal to players even when they have no idea WTF they are.
However, he would make an awesome AT. IMO, most joke characters are better that way, since you'd don't get complaints that way. Look at Waluigi and Tingle. Both make for great, trolly ATs( like most should be,since it really fits the nature of ATs themselves).

Yeah joke characters should stay ATs.

Demote Wario please

(trolling a bit, but I actually hate Wario)

 

[FalKoopa]

(trolling a bit, but I actually hate Wario)

I don't hate Wario, but I do hate his Brawl moveset, especially that stop-motion gait. (>_>)

I hope they take more inspiration from Wario Land: Shake it! for his Smash 4 moveset.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Wario is popular he deserved to be in melee

 

[volbound1700]

I'm pretty sure that if Sakurai put DHD in, he'd get the same sort of reaction we have with jigglypuff. There'd be plenty of people thinking he should be cut, he's stupid, et cetera. It'd be the very opposite of hype. Retros work better when they innately appeal to players even when they have no idea WTF they are.
However, he would make an awesome AT. IMO, most joke characters are better that way, since you'd don't get complaints that way. Look at Waluigi and Tingle. Both make for great, trolly ATs( like most should be,since it really fits the nature of ATs themselves).

People are not acting that way about Duck Hunt Dogs inclusion in Super Smash Brothers Crusade. It was a very popular add and request for that game. Also check out the DHD thread on here if you haven't already. There is some support.

I preferred Wario in his plumber outfit. I liked his moveset except for the fart and motorcycle, a little too much.