Saltus Combo (testers wanted) *please read thread*

[saviorslegacy]

Everyone can dream of trying to get out of f-tilt> footstool. I've gotten fast enough at it that I can beat Marth's Dolphin Slash. Now frankly I do see a problem with some people at higher percents and Peach mat be one of them.

The only problem with this combo is your air time. As soon as that is cut down then we will be a threat.


*note* combo confirmed to work on Game & Watch

 

[Alphicans]

If the combo really works it wont be gamebreaking. Just bann FD vs. Shiek and bye bye Combo. Platforms + DI to it arent your friend. =/

Considering there are other stages that are flat, I don't think this is a valid argument at all. You think people just use neutral stages in tournies?

 

[Kitamerby]

Considering there are other stages that are flat, I don't think this is a valid argument at all. You think people just use neutral stages in tournies?

Pictochat gains random hazards every 13 seconds (note that sheik does not seem to stay in the safe zone the entire time during this pseudo-combo), and has a high ceiling, making it take longer for usmash to KO, and Smashville has a floating platform that can screw things up.

Banning FD seems to be the way to go.

 

[<π]

you can do it through platforms.

 

[saviorslegacy]

you can do it through platforms.

it's just really hard
not impossible though!

 

[legion598]

I cant seem to get shiek off the grounds fast enough after the Ftilt, is their some sort of specific frame to jump on?

 

[saviorslegacy]

I cant seem to get shiek off the grounds fast enough after the Ftilt, is their some sort of specific frame to jump on?

uhhhhh.. I can't really explain how to do it.
Just practice and you'll get the hang of it.

 

[Panix]

Did this, but the problem i get is sometimes i footstool late and they just land, which leaves me open for attacks. Sometimes i'd footstool bair and sweetspot it, but that wasn't as bad because I followed up with a uair, Sometimes I just double jumped over and they just utlited me.

(against a metaknight in a real fight.)

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

NICE FIND!!!

Nah, don't feel selfish for naming after yourself, I mean you discovered it, right?

Anyway, yay this should help Shiek a little more, and raise her placing in the next Tier List by a bit at least... the other thing is, it WORKS ON METAKNIGHT! HAH TAKE THAT MK YOU NOOB!!! (jk lol). Since this works on most characters, including the top characters (like metaknight), this really should help Shiek out more in tournaments.

One more thing: This will be more useful than jab locks or such since this combo uses TWO attacks, so it doesn't stale as easily. And anyway, Bair and Ftilt do more damage than lasers or jabs... And ANOTHER thing, ftilt is so much easier to hit with than having to set them up like you have to do with a laser/jab lock or such.

Thanks for your work!

 

[illinialex24]

I sincerely doubt this is a combo but its important enough so I will go frame by frame likely with it.

 

[illinialex24]

I just tested this out. It isn't a combo on Jigglypuff. Good day. It doesn't work. I used perfect no C-stick DI's and it was impossible for Sheik to hit Jigglypuff with the footstool even if she buffers it perfectly. All you have to do is hold back when your hit and your out. I tested it with multiple stales, doesn't work. Just hold back once you see this started and your safe.

 

[Zankoku]

illinialex, I find it highly dubious that you executed it properly.

 

[Metatitan]

alex is really good at testing frame data, i think he knows what hes talking about. sry that your "infinite" doesnt work on a char u probly wont face much (oh wait bowyer :D)

 

[saviorslegacy]

I just tested this out. It isn't a combo on Jigglypuff. Good day. It doesn't work. I used perfect no C-stick DI's and it was impossible for Sheik to hit Jigglypuff with the footstool even if she buffers it perfectly. All you have to do is hold back when your hit and your out. I tested it with multiple stales, doesn't work. Just hold back once you see this started and your safe.

I know you did it wrong. I can do it.


:EDIT: I know a Jiggy main in my area. -_-
That pink ball is a pain in the neck for sure.

 

[illinialex24]

illinialex, I find it highly dubious that you executed it properly.

I am doing frame by frame using buffered jumps to bair. I found footstool to soft bair a combo (your royal "mystic eyesingly annoying" majesty) on at least Bowser but that the F-tilt to footstool was not a combo as long as you could DI. I tried many different frames any stuff like that but you can never get over the head effectively if they DI perfectly.

Oh and btw, I used the Smash Lab standard for buffering a jump. Alternating between pressing up with tap on and X.

I know you did it wrong. I can do it.

I didn't. It doesn't work on Jiggs (did it at 23%, you said it starts at 22%, also did it at 40%, doesn't work).

Got the same issue with Bowser.

 

[Zankoku]

alex is really good at testing frame data, i think he knows what hes talking about.

lol, yeah, right.

 

[illinialex24]

lol, yeah, right.

How many times have you been called a *******? Because honestly, your just making sweeping generalizations. Wow, you are a bad mod.

EDIT:

Oh and btw, I got like a small window at 55% for Bowser it works with him having no DI. Course, no DI isn't very useful.

 

[NO-IDea]

Is this combo not simply an extension of this guy's vid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3je-k53-DU
Important Information: vid uploaded July 5th 2008!

Rather than of course following up with needle storm, you simply repeat with f-tilt again, no?

Props if enough research (and an actual vid with the combo performed on a reputable MK) appears to prove the legitimacy of this combo. The naming is a bit iffy though. All you really did was put two and two together from what is already known. Can't you just call it Sheik's footstool lock and call it a day?

 

[illinialex24]

That one would actually work if you can force the jump release because I proved that the footstool to soft bair is a true combo on at least one person but it should be true for everyone. They should get up and you could regrab and jump release him. IE, you got an infinite on Wario.

 

[Zankoku]

I'm not doing anything related to moderation right now, so I'm not exactly sure of the meaning of that statement.

Based on what I've seen of your posts regarding testing and the fact that you're talking about DIing the ftilt (which is about as useful as trying to move a filing cabinet by kicking it), I'm not about to believe your test results.

 

[illinialex24]

I'm not doing anything related to moderation right now, so I'm not exactly sure of the meaning of that statement.

Based on what I've seen of your posts regarding testing and the fact that you're talking about DIing the ftilt (which is about as useful as trying to move a filing cabinet by kicking it), I'm not about to believe your test results.

There are slight differences in where you end up with a DI on an F-tilt. Not much but its enough to make it so Sheik can't footstool at least at percentages you say it did.

IE, Bowser. You have a 3 frame window before he lands without a DI or something around there (thats a guess because he just started looking like he was about to land, a small number). With a DI, though, when you get over him, he's on the ground. IE, you can't do the footstool and have it work at 55%.

Jigglypuff is too fast in the air so you are never above her if she DI's properly at least up to 40%.

 

[Zankoku]

I didn't say anything about %s. I typically started from higher than the "minimums" saviorslegacy set because I'm looking for practical %s rather than minimums. Saying that it works at some % but not the original is completely different from saying "I just tested this out. It isn't a combo on Jigglypuff. Good day. It doesn't work."

 

[j0s3ph]

i just crapped my pants
An infinite that works on 90% of the cast AND gives MK a bad matchup? The tier list needs some editing

 

[illinialex24]

I didn't say anything about %s. I typically started from higher than the "minimums" saviorslegacy set because I'm looking for practical %s rather than minimums. Saying that it works at some % but not the original is completely different from saying "I just tested this out. It isn't a combo on Jigglypuff. Good day. It doesn't work."

I added more on there, but yeah, its true, I did go over. But I did explain myself later, but if you can't get over her at that percentage at all if she chooses not to, I doubt it will work ever. No proof but I am fairly certain.

 

[NO-IDea]

In other words, DI can make this combo effective only at later percentages. Key thing here is that it doesn't mean it makes this combo ineffective. (Heh, double negative)

However, I do tend to agree. This combo is great in theory, but in practice and actual application against opponents, this tool is less useful (and less consistent) than GRUSting.

After all, GRUSting fails only when the Sheik fails to input the command correctly. This combo could fail simply because the opponent can DI.

 

[illinialex24]

I am just saying, it is unlikely to work on Jigglypuff period. Her aerial speed is too great with her floatiness I doubt she can get comboed period. Peach I would question, but I think Bowser could starting at 80% effectively.

 

[Zankoku]

The combo's dumb to start with because of the range you have to be at to set it up.

 

[illinialex24]

Yeah, although it seems (I don't use Sheik or Wario so you probably completely know this) that you have an infinite on Wario with a jump release.

 

[MK26]

short-hop footstool. It ***** the frame data that says this isnt possible.

Also, couldnt you combo an ftilt lock into this (with the staling helping you start the saviour combo earlier) and end with a running usmash after the getup to possibly 0-death?

 

[<π]

The combo's dumb to start with because of the range you have to be at to set it up.

Actually yeah I agree, it's very unsafe unless you are punishing some big wiff or are behind your opponent.

At higher percents you can give yourself more distance and dash into footstool...

 

[legion598]

This would almost certainly work in a match if practiced because I doubt people are going to react to a single Ftilt with PERFECT DI. The draw back of this is the stupid spacing involved and your Ftilt has to be pretty fresh to do it at lower percents

 

[demonictoonlink]

I don't know...from what I've been testing, this seems pretty legit...

 

[hotgarbage]

In regards to landing the footstool: from what I've seen Sheik should be able to land it most of the time.

The trick here is dashing for one or two frames and then jumping. Doing this will make Sheik slide forward during her 4 frames of jump startup, putting her in range for the footstool.

Of course there may be some situations where you can't afford to give up those frames, but it generally solves the problem.




EDIT:

short-hop footstool. It ***** the frame data that says this isnt possible.

Of course I used the short hop footstool when testing this (on MK). Getting data on the wrong thing would be a bit silly no?

 

[MK26]

Of course I used the short hop footstool when testing this (on MK). Getting data on the wrong thing would be a bit silly no?

well, in all the vids of the OP, he was using regular footstools, so it seemed like some charaacters might be able to escape

 

[swordgard]

well, in all the vids of the OP, he was using regular footstools, so it seemed like some charaacters might be able to escape

That was SH footstool lol, Full hop is much higher.

 

[hotgarbage]

well, in all the vids of the OP, he was using regular footstools, so it seemed like some charaacters might be able to escape

What swordgard said ^_____^. You're probably being thrown off by Sheik's jumping on the opponent in the air and then them falling, which kinda gives the illusion that she's jumping higher than she is.

 

[Praxis]

Has anyone actually tested Smash DIing Sheik's Bair to move to the edge or out of ftilt range?

 

[saviorslegacy]

Has anyone actually tested Smash DIing Sheik's Bair to move to the edge or out of ftilt range?

f-tilt is pretty much legit. Cjaracters such as Jigglypuff who have really good DI can make this combo not work at low percents. However in the end the f-tilt> footstool is a true combo at certain percents no matter how much you DI it.


meh.. you can DI the Bair but it really doesn't get you anywhere. Sheik can just walk up to you and use f-tilt. (If you watch the video you will see the IC DIing the f-tilt.) (It doesn't get them anywhere.)

 

[swordgard]

f-tilt is pretty much legit. Cjaracters such as Jigglypuff who have really good DI can make this combo not work at low percents. However in the end the f-tilt> footstool is a true combo at certain percents no matter how much you DI it.


meh.. you can DI the Bair but it really doesn't get you anywhere. Sheik can just walk up to you and use f-tilt. (If you watch the video you will see the IC DIing the f-tilt.) (It doesn't get them anywhere.)

Fact: There is no such thing as "really good DI", smash DI is the same for everyone. Stop thinking were talking about normal DI, were using SDI, which is different. Go read my guide to know how to SDI because you do not seem to be aware of its mechanics ^.^ <<<<<more non-subtle guide advertisement.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Fact: There is no such thing as "really good DI", smash DI is the same for everyone. Stop thinking were talking about normal DI, were using SDI, which is different. Go read my guide to know how to SDI because you do not seem to be aware of its mechanics ^.^ <<<<<more non-subtle guide advertisement.

*I have read it before... still doesn't work.

If this does work then why aren't people DIing out of the f-tilt lock?