Scientific analysis of character weights.

[Drack]

These are the percentages that characters while standing were Star KO'd by Mario's Utilt on Final Destination. At 1% less damage they survived. This shows you the relative character weights. This test was done using Training mode. I have also verified (exhaustively) through this test that IN TRAINING MODE, the move overuse penalty is only for damage; knockback is unaffected.

Other moves (Snake's Utilt) were used in tiebreakers to determine who is heavier when someone was KO'd at the same percentage of Mario's Utilt. This is why Metaknight, for example, is listed as heavier than Fox and Kirby.


130% Jigglypuff
135% Squirtle
138% Mr. Game & Watch
142% Fox Kirby
142% Metaknight
144% Sheik
145% Zelda Zero Suit Samus
146% Pikachu
147% Pikmin & Olimar
148% Peach
149% Falco
151% Ice Climbers
154% Marth Toon Link
155% Diddy Kong Lucas
156% Ness
157% Luigi
158% Pit Sonic
158% Mario
160% Lucario
162% Ivysaur
164% Samus
165% Robot
166% Yoshi
167% Wolf Wario
168% Charizard
169% Link
172% Ike Ganondorf
173% Captain Falcon
175% Bowser
180% Donkey Kong
181% Snake
185% King Dedede

And here is the list for Side KO percentages. Same concept, but only Side KOs were counted. The move used is the front part of Mario's C-sticked Dsmash (C-stick works in training mode now). Since only sidewall KOs are conted, this does NOT factor in fall speed. KOs against the bottom-side wall (The Brawl KO walls are an octagon, not a rectangle like Melee) do not count. Note that the characters are in a different order. Weight against horizontal and vertical attacks works differently.

The tiebreaker move was the front part of Fox's C-sticked Dsmash, thoughmost ties didn't break (same % on this move too). I'll break them later, here's the current data.

115% Jigglypuff
117% Fox Squirtle
119% Mr. Game & Watch
121% Pikachu Metaknight
122% Kirby
122% Falco
123% Zero Suit Samus Sheik
125% Pikmin & Olimar
127% Zelda
128% Marth
130% Ice Climbers
131% Peach
131% Diddy Kong
132% Toon Link
132% Lucas
133% Pit Ness Sonic
136% Mario Luigi
136% Wolf
138% Ivysaur Lucario
139% Captain Falcon
140% Link
141% Ike
143% Yoshi Ganondorf Wario Robot
145% Samus Charizard
146% King Dedede
147% Snake
150% Donkey Kong
151% Bowser

 

[ComradeSAL]

This is good work, and yeah, very surprising. DeDeDe is looking better and better with every new piece of info I find on him.

 

[Blu-ninja]

bah...

ive gotta make sure not to run into too manyhits with ZSS then..

thanks for this man!

 

[Luz]

Some very nice details I see (difference between ZSS and Samus by about 19%) and the 3 Star Foxes are spaced out pretty nicely. Very good job, although the news about the knockback is a little saddening. Maybe all that hype was caused just by a weak point in the hitbox.

 

[billywill]

yeah but this isn't necessarily true when DI comes into play

 

[Kevin]

These certainly are some interesting statistics to look at. Jigglypuff being the lightest was to be expected, and I was also pretty sure Dedede was the heaviest. The Snake is a little surprising, as is the fact that Falcon lasts longer than Ganondorf.

 

[pirkid]

Lol, I love how CF is heavier then Ganon.

Put on a few pounds before Brawling, hmm...

 

[MIRAI87]

Lol, I love how CF is heavier then Ganon.

Put on a few pounds before Brawling, hmm...

SHOW ME YOUR FOODS!

 

[alex3]

snake heavier than bowser?

 

[SmashBro99]

snake heavier than bowser?

This suprised me as well.

 

[Dagingabreadman]

These are the percentages that characters while standing were Star KO'd by Mario's Utilt on Final Destination. At 1% less damage they

survived. This shows you the relative character weights. This test was done using Training mode. I have also verified (exhaustively) through this test that the move overuse penalty in Brawl is only for damage; knockback is unaffected.


130% Jigglypuff
135% Squirtle
138% Mr. Game & Watch
142% Fox Metaknight Kirby
144% Sheik
145% Zelda Zero Suit Samus
146% Pikachu
147% Pikmin & Olimar
148% Peach
149% Falco
151% Ice Climbers
154% Marth Toon Link
155% Diddy Kong Lucas
156% Ness
158% Mario Luigi Pit Sonic
160% Lucario
162% Ivysaur
164% Samus
165% Robot
166% Yoshi
167% Wolf Wario
168% Charizard
169% Link
172% Ike Ganondorf
173% Captain Falcon
175% Bowser
180% Donkey Kong
181% Snake
185% King Dedede

Some of these results are VERY surprising (Snake heavier than Bowser and DK? CF heavier than Ganondorf?) but all have been tested and verified. Go figure.

sorry but wrong about the no increased knockback... Knockback just doesnt decrease in training mode. It was explained in original thread

 

[Cog]

Nice analysis, though I think you should do the same method with every character and average out the percentages, so you can possibly get rid of ties, and actually figure out the main weights for the entire game.

 

[MysticKenji]

...This test was done using Training mode. I have also verified (exhaustively) through this test that the move overuse penalty in Brawl is only for damage IN TRAINING MODE; knockback is unaffected IN TRAINING MODE...

Fix'd for great justice.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[Agent 1337]

Looking back now, I laugh at the people who say that because in the Dojo update for Bowser, it said he was the biggest and the heaviest, it means that Ridley can't be in Brawl. What do you know, he wasn't playable, but Bowser turned out not to be the heaviest. Irony for the win!

 

[mista_mista]

MysticKenji is right, I'm pretty sure. Knockback isn't reduced in training mode by using the same attack.

Captain Falcon and Snake really surprised me with their weights

 

[Dubyah8r]

Damage =/= weight. I don't know if you read the thread where they explained how certain characters are stronger against each other. Snake and Captain Falcon are the big abnormalities and they are both tall and skinny. Mario is short and squat the opposite of those two. Could it be he does not do as well against them? If so that is a big plus for this series.

 

[Card]

Link is quite the fatty. Heavier than Charizard?

 

[Drack]

Main post edited with the knockback comment only pertaining to training mode.

I'll try a different attack with a taller character to break ties and check about those abnormalities.

EDIT: Snake's Utilt tests done. Broke a few ties but some still remain. This also reconfirmed CF is heavier than Ganondorf, and Snake's obscene weight (must be the rockets and mines).

 

[sv3]

Is there a stage like Mushroom kingdom with two falling platforms connected to each other? Or a way to stage build it? If you could quickly get characters on opposite platforms that could confirm your current results.

 

[leafgreen386]

Although this is probably mostly correct, it doesn't take into account the possibility of different fall speeds/acceleration, which would likely have a large degree of influence on test results since they're all being KOed straight up. Although it sounds like pretty much everyone is floatier in brawl, there's got to be some difference between them.

Alternatively, you could look at it from the viewpoint that everyone will be DIing horizontal attacks up anyway, making that irrelevant, and this being the most accurate way to determine relative weights after all. Either way, fall speed/acceleration explains why characters get killed later than bowser, even though he is technically the heaviest character in the game.

Link is quite the fatty. Heavier than Charizard?

No one said this game had to make sense. Link was a tank in ssbm, too.

 

[Dry Bones]

if you are knocking them upwards, wouldnt the height and size of the characters have some influence as well? thats the only reason i can see some of the taller characters like snake being KOed later than bowser

 

[sv3]

Charizard is a little less than 200 pounds- it's possible with Link's weight + his sword and accessories he tops that.

Still, I guess that's just rationalizing an irrational game

 

[Drack]

if you are knocking them upwards, wouldnt the height and size of the characters have some influence as well? thats the only reason i can see some of the taller characters like snake being KOed later than bowser

Possibly. I don't think physics that advanced were used in Brawl (Though it DOES have the Havok physics engine...) but I'll run some Side-KO tests as well.

What move do you think would be the most balanced (never sweetspots,constant angle, etc) for side KO tests?

 

[Dry Bones]

KOing from the side of a stage might work if done from the same spot, but again, could yield mixed results. its a shame we dont have that mushroom kingdom 2 stage in melee, with the scales... that might life a bit easier =)

there are some moves that always have the same angle and such, like jigglypuffs pound i believe, but i cant think of them at the moment. regardless, this will be a hard thing to test

good work so far though dude =)

 

[Enshoku]

Possibly. I don't think physics that advanced were used in Brawl (Though it DOES have the Havok physics engine...) but I'll run some Side-KO tests as well.

What move do you think would be the most balanced (never sweetspots,constant angle, etc) for side KO tests?

whatever you choose, just make sure it's powerful enough that momentum is still the driving force... dedede's jet hammer or Ike's f>smash would work well

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Small request for you to check PMs Drack.

Also I recommend somebody not as hard hitting as Ike/Dedede, keep Mario and use an Fsmash?

 

[Micahc]

Lol scientific


Snake surprised me though.

 

[Flyingmonkey]

Also, I know there are no "fast fallers" like there were in melee, but I'm sure that some of the characters are floatier than others- which would influence these results, but not really have anything to do with weight, especially when talking about horizontal KOs.

 

[Kyle29]

snakes is heavier because of the **** load of explosives he carries.

 

[Kyle29]

Link is quite the fatty. Heavier than Charizard?

lol

10 characters

 

[TK Wolf]

DDD is a big fatty... Fatty Mc Fattypants.

But really, thanks for the analysis! =)

 

[pyrotek7x7]

I have also verified (exhaustively) through this test that in Training Mode, the move overuse penalty in Brawl is only for damage; knockback is unaffected.

No. It's been proven that in Training Mode, knockback is unaffected. In all other modes, it is.

 

[Enshoku]

ike is heavier than I thought, and does peach seem out of place to you guys?

 

[HarryTheChin]

Wow, Wolf and Link are pretty high up there.

That is a good thing.

 

[sv3]

ike is heavier than I thought, and does peach seem out of place to you guys?

You mean based on what you've seen in videos/gameplay or in general? In general, Ivysaur is way out of place- he's only about 30 pounds according to various wikidexes (Lucario, 120 pounds, is supposedly lighter than him)

 

[Enshoku]

You mean based on what you've seen in videos/gameplay or in general? In general, Ivysaur is way out of place- he's only about 30 pounds according to various wikidexes (Lucario, 120 pounds, is supposedly lighter than him)

I also assume snake stopped in mcdonalds before recruited for brawl?

 

[leafgreen386]

Because apparently only a few people (no one?) actually read this, I'm quoting my post from earlier. Flyingmonkey was the only person to even mention a similar concept in their post.

Although this is probably mostly correct, it doesn't take into account the possibility of different fall speeds/acceleration, which would likely have a large degree of influence on test results since they're all being KOed straight up. Although it sounds like pretty much everyone is floatier in brawl, there's got to be some difference between them.

Alternatively, you could look at it from the viewpoint that everyone will be DIing horizontal attacks up anyway, making that irrelevant, and this being the most accurate way to determine relative weights after all. Either way, fall speed/acceleration explains why characters get killed later than bowser, even though he is technically the heaviest character in the game.

Without actually hacking the game or the existence of an ingame scale, we'll never find relative or specific weights. However, we can find what characters are easier to KO, through a combination of weight and floatiness.

 

[Rebel581]

Does nobody remember that fall speed is for over the top KOs and weight is for side KOs? Unless that's different in Brawl, this proved nothing besides who dies easiest over the top.

 

[LinkNSnake4Main]

Snake outweighing Bowser doesn't really suprise me too much.

Anyone that's played MGS knows, Snake may be sneaky, but he's in no way the lightest or most agile person you'll ever meet.

 

[DRaGZ]

This might not be weights, it could be falling speed combined with weight.

Or...am I wrong in saying that there are unique falling speeds in Brawl?