Scientific analysis of character weights.

[ph00tbag]

ike is heavier than I thought, and does peach seem out of place to you guys?

Have you ever tried to wear a dress like that? I'm surprised the poor girl can throw a punch, much less float around the stage like a bubble.

You see, what I find weird is ZSS being lighter than Pikachu, Ness and Lucas. This girl needs a hot dog.

 

[tutata]

This is surprising thanks.

 

[Enshoku]

Have you ever tried to wear a dress like that? I'm surprised the poor girl can throw a punch, much less float around the stage like a bubble.

I'm not going to answer that question because it's possibly incriminating...

 

[RedMage8BT]

I bet if I took off all this heavy gear, I could catch her...

 

[Poel]

I appreciate this. Could you do a measurement of kills off the side? For a more rounded understanding?

 

[Layupfreak]

good. im happy dedede and luario are near the bottem

 

[FenrirIII]

I bet if I took off all this heavy gear, I could catch her...

I see what you did there. Nice job.

 

[Drack]

Side KO test done. I still need to do tiebreakers on it though.

The side KO data is less surprising than the Star KO data.

 

[Enshoku]

Side KO test done. I still need to do tiebreakers on it though.

The side KO data is less surprising than the Star KO data.

it seems to be more realistic at least...

making a median of the data, just in case anyone cares to know...

 

[Maben]

Nvm I had a dumb question that made me look dumb lol.

 

[Enshoku]

You said the Brawl edges are an octagon, are you sure you don't mean a hexagon (6 sides)? It would seem odd for it to have more than 6, but I don't have the game so I don't know .

that would be awkward, as it either wouldn't have flat sides...

an octagon means there is a top wall, a top left wall, top right wall, left wall, right wall, bottom wall, bottom left wall, bottom right wall

 

[OoNoiRoO]

This is good ****.

Good job dude.

 

[Drack]

The Brawl arena is indeed an octagon. Occasionally you'll see the explosion of a KO coming from a diagonal direction. It's not a hexagon though, as straight side KOs, bottom KOs, and Star KOs are all possible too.

 

[Losnar]

excellent work

science be praised!

 

[Enshoku]

The Brawl arena is indeed an octagon. Occasionally you'll see the explosion of a KO coming from a diagonal direction. It's not a hexagon though, as straight side KOs, bottom KOs, and Star KOs are all possible too.

almost done with the mean of the characters, do you want it?

jigglypuff-122.5
squirtle-126
mr game and watch-128.5
fox-129.5
kirby-131
metaknight-131.5
shiek-133.5
pikachu-133.5
zero suit samus-134
falco-135.5
zelda-136
olimar-136
peach-139.5
ice climbers-140.5
marth-141
toon link-143
diddy-143
lucas-143.5
ness-144.5
pit-145.5
sonic-145.5
luigi-146.5
mario-147.5
lucario-149
ivysaur-150
wolf-152
R.O.B.-154
samus-154.5
yoshi-154.5
link-154.5
wario-155
captain falcon-156
charizard-156.5
ike-156.5
ganondorf-157.5
bowser-163
snake-164
donkey kong-165
dedede-165.5

 

[residentevilrulz]

This is great work. I can't help but say I'm disappointed about Bowser not being the heaviest in the vertical sense. He honestly should be. Maybe DK would be close to his weight.. but come on, he's freaking enormous. Snake could probably hide inside of his body lol. But whatevs, he is heavy enough for me to be happy I suppose.

 

[Necrochild313]

Is a Star KO deduced from a central point on each character or does it detect it's hitbox "touching" a limit? That might explain some of the WTF moments with the vertical KOs, especially with Bowser/Snake.

 

[EpitomeX]

Great info, good work. I'm surprised that snake is that heavy.

 

[kotahlicious]

cool pit looks pretty solid

 

[SubparSmashBrother]

Wow, has Captain Falcon is HEAVY this time around.

 

[GUIGUI]

Forget what I said.

 

[GUIGUI]

Could we see some videos of how you proceeded?

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Some very nice details I see (difference between ZSS and Samus by about 19%) and the 3 Star Foxes are spaced out pretty nicely. Very good job, although the news about the knockback is a little saddening. Maybe all that hype was caused just by a weak point in the hitbox.

It's just in training mode that knockback isn't weakened, he stated this in the first post. Ryoko is still correct.

 

[matthewmilad]

Some very nice details I see (difference between ZSS and Samus by about 19%) and the 3 Star Foxes are spaced out pretty nicely. Very good job, although the news about the knockback is a little saddening. Maybe all that hype was caused just by a weak point in the hitbox.

No, he said TRAINING MODE only. Knockback reduces along with damage in Vs. Mode

 

[Mama]

No, he said TRAINING MODE only. Knockback reduces along with damage in Vs. Mode

Thats why I think the percentages will vary but the results are still good as gold. Good stuff. Things will be different with DI in the equation of course but its still nice work.

 

[Drack]

Could we see some videos of how you proceeded?

If you must have a video, I'll provide one, but it's using my terrible cell phone camera and on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo_3mI45KiQ

Here's a side KO test on Bowser. He's not side KO'd at 150% but is at 151%.

Because my cell phone sucks, let me explain what settings I changed.
-Game Speed: 1.5x (habit of mine, when you run all these tests you want to do them quickly)
-CPU: Human (to remove all possibility of DI)
-Damage: 999%

I then KO bowser to make him respawn in the center

-Damage: 150%
-To prevent any spacing errors I roll from the edge
-C-sticked Down smash! Bowser gets diagonally KO'd off the side-bottom edge. Not a side KO.

-Damage 151%
-C-sticked Down smash! Bowser gets Side KO'd

 

[Metamere]

Good methodology and interesting results; I'm impressed. Now do you think you could make it more conclusive by testing all of every character's moves against every other character? No, I'm just kidding. You'd be working until Smash Bros. 4 comes out.

As for weight and fall speed not matching characters' stats from other contexts, I think they set it up to match the characters' relative size and build in this game, since this can be slightly different from their other appearances. What do you think?

 

[sv3]

So it seems like due to the different fall speeds that the side KOs are more accurate. Is it also possible that some characters with faster fall speeds are dying to bottom KOs before they get side KO'd? That might be a minor factor for some of them. Which stage has the lowest bottom?

 

[Losnar]

Here's a side KO test on Bowser. He's not side KO'd at 150% but is at 151%.

Who the hell cares about a 1% difference? Go watch some tv.

 

[SolidSonic]

Snake outweighing Bowser doesn't really suprise me too much.

Anyone that's played MGS knows, Snake may be sneaky, but he's in no way the lightest or most agile person you'll ever meet.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uXTPS5pfeFI

*Dodges missile by doing back flip

He didn't even have to do a flip, he just felt like pwning him in style.

 

[Poel]

Thanks for getting up side weights too.

Anyone have ideas for analyzing these for a total "weight" list?

 

[Enshoku]

Thanks for getting up side weights too.

Anyone have ideas for analyzing these for a total "weight" list?

almost done with the mean of the characters, do you want it?

jigglypuff-122.5
squirtle-126
mr game and watch-128.5
fox-129.5
kirby-131
metaknight-131.5
shiek-133.5
pikachu-133.5
zero suit samus-134
falco-135.5
zelda-136
olimar-136
peach-139.5
ice climbers-140.5
marth-141
toon link-143
diddy-143
lucas-143.5
ness-144.5
pit-145.5
sonic-145.5
luigi-146.5
mario-147.5
lucario-149
ivysaur-150
wolf-152
R.O.B.-154
samus-154.5
yoshi-154.5
link-154.5
wario-155
captain falcon-156
charizard-156.5
ike-156.5
ganondorf-157.5
bowser-163
snake-164
donkey kong-165
dedede-165.5

...........

 

[Norm]

Appearantly Snake weighs a metric ton which is good to read seeing as i really want to main with him.

 

[Enshoku]

Appearantly Snake weighs a metric ton which is good to read seeing as i really want to main with him.

snake is the ganon of brawl, with projectiles...

 

[Grey]

For Melee, Mushroom Kingdom was used to come up with the official weight list.

Took us several days of work, and Dark Arbiter did the math. They're posted in one of the FAQs on the board here.

Even with such a stage, it may not be possible to come up with hard numbers if there are no equalites. Two Pichu's = 1 Samus was the key that unlocked all of the rest of the weights. Otherwise it was just a big table of inequalities.

 

[Kruton]

It's really hard for me to believe Snake is the second heaviest character in the game...

 

[Mew2King]

Drack, I suggest you use Marths up smash or Peachs up smash for things like this.

Also here's a tid bit of information: in Super Smash Bros. Melee - Weight was only a small factor for how easily you get killed off the top, Falling Speed is the main factor for that (and the 3rd factor is falling speed acceleration, but falling speed acceleration and weight aren't as big of factors as top speed in falling speed). Weight determined HOW FAR YOU GER KNOCKED HORIZONTALLY, AND HOW LONG YOU WERE STUNNED FROM ATTACKS, (the heavier the less), having only little influence in how easily you get star KOd.

Most likely Brawl is similar, I suggest using Marths Up Smash and Marths F Smash from the center of FD. I have already done a few stat tests of my own, but if you're going to continue this then it's less work for me. If you don't know who I am, I did many stat tests in SSBM (see my sig), but if you're going to do stuff too then I don't have to do as much.

You don't have to do things like this over again since you already made a list, but often it is good to use popular moves to do tests on (especially if they send at exact angles), so not only do you get good comparison for things, but people can use the knowledge to their advantage in rare situations. Double win.

it seems brawl is different than melee in how much weight is a factor. Samus is the best example, as she's a slower faller but super heavy, and she doesn't vary on that scale very much, while in SSBM it varied a lot. My conclusion to this is that the actual weight for characters is more important than before by a little bit compared to SSBM, and falling speed in brawl is less important (for living).



BOWSER IS THE HEAVIEST IN THE GAME, (weight factor is your 2nd list that you made with Mario's down smash), DEDEDE FALLS MUCH FASTER THAN BOWSER, AND SINCE FALLING SPEED IS A BIG FACTOR IN HOW QUICK YOU DIE UPWARDS, HE LIVES LONGER FROM UPWARD ATTACKS I just tested it, Bowser falls much slower than DeDeDe, but weight is the - ONLY - factor in how hard you get hit left/right.

I'm not suprised at this at all, same concept applies to melee to different extremes.



Here's anothing thing, if you continue making stat lists so I don't have to, you can easily test Fast Fall Falling speed by using the Level Editor in the game, and have characters fall from the respawn cloud by pausing the game, holding down on both controllers, then unpausing the game. You can get an easy rankings list this way. Falling speed is slightly harder, as falling speed acceleration is also a factor.

I can help you make really good stat lists if you want, I'm really experienced in this from SSBM, my AIM is ooVideoGameGodoo, I'm online often, just instant message me.

 

[PipePlaza]

Wolf is as heavy as Wario D:
Either Wario's gotten light because of gas inside him, or Wolf should lay of sheep for a while.

 

[Scarface]

As far as a Ball Park percentage goes, this is a pretty good list.

 

[mikee8728]

interesting..