Securing the Kill as Mario

[smasher1001]

downsmash is also a potential punish for when you think they'll roll from ledge, though i agree overusing it is a bad idea as it leaves you pretty open.

 

[HeroMystic]

I literally only use D-Smash to snag quick kills from the ledge now. If you want more damage or a better positional advantage from a shield poke, D-tilt is better.

 

[Nd_KakaKhakis]

The startup is great but damn that recovery is forever on whiff. I usually use it for hard ledge reads or roll through reads. But as much as I use it I feel like I should be using it less.

Plus Charged Upsmash at least can push your opponent away on shield but Downsmash on shield is gonna lead toyou getting punished.

 

[Super FOG]

Glad to see that it already exists a topic for my problem.

My major issue while playing as Mario is my incredible difficulty to go for the KO in my opponent. I manage to rack up big amonuts of damage in my opponents but I get punished quite frequently every time I try to finish him, I even manage to get my opponent in absurds amonuts of damage, like beyond 200%, I even got comeback'd by a Mega Man that I managed to pummel him to 234% and I lost because I got punished every time I tried to search a KO. This problem is managing to infuriate me in so many levels and get me saltier every time I lose a match in this way. I wonder: Does Mario have some guaranteed KO setups beyond F-smash baits, caping recoveries and B-throwing really diehard foes?

 

[HeroMystic]

Landing D-air > U-Smash
Landing D-air > D-Smash (at the ledge)
Soft Nair > U-Smash (guaranteed if opponent doesn't tech, otherwise it's a tech chase)
Falling U-air > F-air (At the ledge)
B-throw @ 150% at the ledge (or less with rage. B-throw has high KBG)
Up-B with Low stage cielings (Halberd, Delfino, Lylat, Battlefield if fully jumped from top of platform)

Otherwise you just need to make good reads.

 

[Macedonian]

Hey guys I wanted to talk a little bit about what percent you guys start going for the kill for. I know this sounds stupid because really were always on the lookout for a kill, but I'm more so referencing where do you guys start forgoing guaranteed damage for potential kills

My best example for this is in the past if I could throw then off the stage an any percent I would. However lately I find myself down throwing opponents even when that are arround 120 percent. If a b throw won't kill. I like getting at least one follow up Uair and trying to rack damage up to at least 130 or higher a before I start fishing for upsmash. I'm not sure if this is the best start but I've had success with playing more like shiek, knowing I have to take them to really high percents so I can get really easy kills of Uair, Dair or onstage Bair

 

[HeroMystic]

Hey guys I wanted to talk a little bit about what percent you guys start going for the kill for. I know this sounds stupid because really were always on the lookout for a kill, but I'm more so referencing where do you guys start forgoing guaranteed damage for potential kills

You go for the kill as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Fundamentally speaking, you shouldn't be fishing for kills adamantly because it lets the opponent know you're hungry for it, which will cause them to play much safer. However, hard reads and gimps can cause early stock kills and that's extremely important to do in this game.

 

[Macedonian]

Dang I knew I could of phrased it better.

My main point where I've been confused lately is should I downthrow and get the guaranteed damage to make the kill easier via higher percent on the enemy, or should I be trying to throw them off the stage no matter what to try and gimp (my gimp game needs a lot of work)

 

[Kwam$tack$]

Dang I knew I could of phrased it better.

My main point where I've been confused lately is should I downthrow and get the guaranteed damage to make the kill easier via higher percent on the enemy, or should I be trying to throw them off the stage no matter what to try and gimp (my gimp game needs a lot of work)

depends on how confident you are with your offstage/gimp game, and how good or bad they are at it. I try to get em off the stage asap because even if i dont get the gimp i'll more than likely tag on some good damage edgeguarding. Its also situational. if theyre by the edge and a throw will get them off then of course im going for it. the ONLY time I wouldnt is if I knew there was a guaranteed KO following the dthrow instead of the backthrow. otherwise being on the stage always trumps being off

 

[HeroMystic]

Dang I knew I could of phrased it better.

My main point where I've been confused lately is should I downthrow and get the guaranteed damage to make the kill easier via higher percent on the enemy, or should I be trying to throw them off the stage no matter what to try and gimp (my gimp game needs a lot of work)

@ Kwam$tack$ said it pretty well, but I will add on and say edgeguarding is very important for Mario and its a good way to mix up your play.

For instance, if you constantly go for guaranteed damage, your opponent will always expect you going for guaranteed damage. So if you D-Throw, he will DI appropriately. Though, if you F-Throw, your opponent will have abysmal DI and it'd catch him in a bad situation where you can seal a kill.

It all depends on your confidence as well as your ability to read your opponent.

 

[Macedonian]

But how are you going to really follow up on that bad di for the fthrow? Like what specifically. I have done fthrow to fair a couple times but I don't trust that if the game is close. And Bair seems easier to do if they are recovering high fthrow dosnt put them very high

 

[HeroMystic]

But how are you going to really follow up on that bad di for the fthrow? Like what specifically. I have done fthrow to fair a couple times but I don't trust that if the game is close. And Bair seems easier to do if they are recovering high fthrow dosnt put them very high

It's not so much of a follow-up as it is making a read. You don't want to immediately follow-up with something, you want to predict what they are going to do and then end their stock by predicting correctly.

If they are recovering low, you want to edgeguard low or ready a trump.
If they are recovering high, you want to either edgeguard high or catch their landing.
If they go for the ledge, you want to read their ledge getup option (this is how I get most of my U-Smash kills btw).

To note, F-throw can kill with bad DI.

 

[ccthirteen]

If they're recovering low, you could chase below the stage, and either catch a Bair to stage spike, or jump off backwards to catch them with a fair.

Only managed to pull this off once, but when recovering to the ledge once, a Samus was trying to fall off the ledge and back air my Mario. I used my second jump for a rising air dodge and when she regrabbed the ledge, dunked her right off of it with a fair.

This should work for punishing those who want to go hard for it.

 

[JoeR]

Gotta go for those side b gimps guys lol

 

[Sha-Shulk]

I can never land the U-smash on an opponent.

Does it have super armor?
Or is it invincible?

Either way, when's the best time to use it?

 

[Xeze]

Mario's head is intangible during the attack execution, I know that much.
A good way to land it is to do a pivot U-smash or when you read a roll.

 

[|Czar|]

Here's another potential kill set-up Mario mains can utilize. Try landing a down-throw once your opponent has at around at least 100% damage. You can bait out an air dodge from them, since your opponent will most likely expect you to go for an aerial attack (up-air, down-air, etc.) If you predict the air dodge correctly, you can charge either an up-smash or a f-smash (up-smash is probably a safer option, considering DI) to catch the air dodge and land the kill.

Don't do this all the time, though. Doing so can make this a predictable kill option, and your opponent will adjust to it by jumping out more often, which will make this set-up less effective over time.

 

[Slam Jammington]

I tend to get most of my kills with Mario by reading a roll or an air dodge and punishing with an f-smash or up-smash. n-air to f-smash is also a really good option in late mid percents if they don't see it coming, as well as the previously mentioned lunch money combo on lowish level ceiling stages. I really try to just build a wall with b-air on my edgeguards and if they air dodge try to n-air them into the stage to force them to make the tech

 

[Xeze]

Here's another potential kill set-up Mario mains can utilize. Try landing a down-throw once your opponent has at around at least 100% damage. You can bait out an air dodge from them, since your opponent will most likely expect you to go for an aerial attack (up-air, down-air, etc.) If you predict the air dodge correctly, you can charge either an up-smash or a f-smash (up-smash is probably a safer option, considering DI) to catch the air dodge and land the kill.

Don't do this all the time, though. Doing so can make this a predictable kill option, and your opponent will adjust to it by jumping out more often, which will make this set-up less effective over time.

When people know the matchup, they never airdodge out of a down throw at those percents since Mario doesn't have any reliable aerial kill moves. This can work near the ledge though, because if they DI out you can follow up with a f-air spike. On stages with low ceiling or with higher platforms, this setup is more reliable due to the higher chance of d-air KOing off the top. In this situation your opponent will either jump away or airdodge, so it's just a matter of reading it.