Sheik, FTW?

[ZoSo]

I love when people make posts about how they "love when people...". It's just really witty and original.

Oh wait, no it isn't.

You realize that that's basically the equivalent of saying: "Wow, that's really funny. NOT!"

If that isn't ironic, I don't know what is.

 

[Plairnkk]

lol@ "uthrow uair doesnt work vs sheik"

uthrow uair works against sheik better than anyone else, if you think otherwise get some tech skills. the only way you can say it doesnt work is if you say "uthrow uair doesnt work against anyone because of smash DI" which is a silly statement anyway.

don't try to say sheik is even with fox just because you can't beat good sheiks. plenty of fox players acknowledge fox has an advantage. If you lose to a sheik it's because they're just flat out better than you, not because "omgz, sheik rapez fox"

edit: zoso is awesome

 

[Drephen]

edit: zoso is awesome

i agree with plairnkk

 

[BigRick]

Man this s*** is nonsense...

Fox players say that Sheik ***** or is even with Fox
Sheik players say that Fox **** Sheik

A logical thing that could explain such a different point of view from both sides is the fact that the matchup is even. Human mind will give a player the tendency to see alot better the advantages that his opponent have over him, especially if it's a tough match.

Sheik is the best char in the game... starting to use her more and more now, I'll probably main her in my next tourney...

 

[tarheeljks]

i agree with what phanna's matchup chart says: Fox v. Sheik 5 to 4 in favor of Fox( 9 game match).

@Rick: expect heavy resistance from Fox and Falco.

 

[Plairnkk]

i agree with what phanna's matchup chart says: Fox v. Sheik 5 to 4 in favor of Sheik ( 9 game match).

@Rick: expect heavy resistance from Fox and Falco.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[BigRick]

@Rick: expect heavy resistance from Fox and Falco.

lol I know, the best players 'round here play spacies so it won't be a piece of cake

Hmm, and I don't expect to win the tourney, there's simply better players than me out there.

 

[tarheeljks]

oops, that was supposed to say in favor of Fox

 

[Buttcrust]

This thread is stupid. Everyone knows DK is the best character in the game.

His taunt is just too sexy.

 

[sheepyman]

After much deliberation, I decided that Fox probably beats Sheik in the matchup, albeit by a hair.

Plank: I can uthrow uair mediocre Sheiks, but smashDI prevents it on good ones.

Fox v Sheik is a very stage dependent matchup, I think, but Fox has more good stages so...Fox beats Sheik.

I'd still say Sheik does better as you go down the tierlist, though.

I changed my mind though, I think that Fox/Falco Sheik Marth is still the best tierlist. Even if Sheik does a lot better as you go down the tier list (even if Fox still annihilates the rest as well), it doesn't matter, because they both still win the matchup by a large enough margin that nobody should care. Plus, lowtiers aren't common in tournaments anyway.

So as a tournament character, Fox/Falco are the best, then Sheik, by a small margin.

 

[Pikaville]

The argument continues eh?Look on paper(even in practice) sheik is not the best character in the game,for a couple of reasons.

1.Two of her moves are useless.
2.She has no true short hop
3.She has no spammable move that is un-punishable.(like x2 fairs from Marth)
4.She is far more predictable than the other argueable best characters(Marth,Falco and Fox,even Peach)
5.Her technical game is far less creative than say Fox or Falco.(goes hand in hand with predictability)

Im sure most will agree and if you don't please elaborate in some form of sensible rebuttle.

 

[King Kong]

This thread is stupid. Everyone knows DK is the best character in the game.

His taunt is just too sexy.

Quoted for truth

DK taunt = sex

peace out

 

[NJzFinest]

1.Two of her moves are useless.

So? I2 of Fox's moves are useless as well. 2 isn't even that large of a number Anyways, the moves that are useful for these characters are more than enough.

2.She has no true short hop

So? That doesn't stop her from being an effective character. Take a look at Ness, he can do the fastest SHFFLs with his DD-cancel...but does that really matter? And take a look at Samus, a character who can give the speedy space animals a hard time

3.She has no spammable move that is un-punishable.(like x2 fairs from Marth)

Um, needles?
Btw, the only character with a move like Marth's x2 fair that is actually good is........Marth.

4.She is far more predictable than the other argueable best characters(Marth,Falco and Fox,even Peach)

I agree

5.Her technical game is far less creative than say Fox or Falco.(goes hand in hand with predictability)

Hmmm....one can say the same about Marth and Peach...

These aren't effective points of why Sheik wouldn't be the best

 

[StripesOrBars]

DooDah really knows his stuff. You just have to dig through sarcasm, hyperbole, flames, and other chat obstacles to find his pearls of wisdom. Most of his posts contain accurate information, it's all just in his way of talking.

Someone finally understands me

Lol, DooDah doesn't troll. He agrees that Sheik is the best character in the game and actually has a pretty long history of posting about how good Sheik is. Since this thread is about Sheik being the best, one shouldn't be surprised that he would come here and "strongly express" his opinions.
Again, I don't think you should be the one talking >_>

No. I think Marth is overall the best.

Shiek>>>>>Marth

so his way of talking is to act immature and belittle everyone?

Yeah I'm sure Hitlers jew camps were his way of showing his love to the jewish community.

LOL, there's no more rep you n00b. Why are you still here?

It's just the Internet.

I'm sure DooDah is an all right guy.

even tho he sux @ smash

MM?

and thats why dope says "if you play falco and lose to a shiek you suck"

or thats why all my fox buddies, for example cunning kitsune, know that fox ***** shiek.

just because you dont know how to get around her fair doesnt make her godly

Dope plays Drephen, can't count him.

If sheik is so amazing, pick her up and try to win tournies.

No johns son. No one is good with Shiek anymore, cuz you need mindgames and no one has those anymore. That's why Fox and Falco are so dominant.

No I think fox/falco > everyone is correct.

Sheik has problems with the IC's

marth has some even match ups the lower you go on the tier list. (marth vs link is what I'm hinting at)

Wow. . . . here:

I love when people who don't know what they're talking about argue with other people who don't know what they're talking about.

@ Gaysir

So? I2 of Fox's moves are useless as well. 2 isn't even that large of a number Anyways, the moves that are useful for these characters are more than enough.

So? That doesn't stop her from being an effective character. Take a look at Ness, he can do the fastest SHFFLs with his DD-cancel...but does that really matter? And take a look at Samus, a character who can give the speedy space animals a hard time

Um, needles?
Btw, the only character with a move like Marth's x2 fair that is actually good is........Marth.

I agree

Hmmm....one can say the same about Marth and Peach.

These aren't effective points of why Sheik wouldn't be the best

Let's see: KDJ and Isai both beat Ken's Fox and Marth at MLG Orlando.

But:

Fox/Falco go even with Marth

Shiek beats Marth

Shiek barely loses to Spacies.

So. . .

You use Marth to beat Spacies, Shiek to beat Marth, and Spacies to beat Shiek.

Game Over.

 

[Mr.C]

doodah = no skill

all your pwn r belong to me LOL

fox/falco > sheik

only people that say otherwise are fox and falco players

im jk doodah is a g

if i were to have lil boys id name them doodah x1 and doodah x2

edit

sheik > marth
fox/falco = marth
fox/falco > sheik

they are all close matchs, since they are all the best in the game
no one in the top 4 counters each other they just have slight advantages
but no one can argue fox and falco are the best.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Shiek and Marth **** lower tiers harder.

Fox ***** some higher tiers harder.

Falco gets beat by some higher tiers

Shiek=Fox=Falco=Marth

No johns ****heads.

 

[Plairnkk]

lol@ "nobody has mindgames anymore, and that's why sheik doesn't win" or possibly it's because fox/falco's new evolution of technical skill is too damaging for sheik to compete with. mindgames don't just go away, but the evolution of the game can stop them from being as important.

 

[StripesOrBars]

No johns. . .

 

[TomH]

Doohdah plays Falco and fox (?) and spends all his time on the forums saying marth and sheik are better and then says "no johns"?

although now he is saying fox=falco=marth=sheik...

which i kind of agree with, but he never said anything similar to that in any of his other posts.

 

[StripesOrBars]

WTF?

Fox and Falco?

I play Marth and Shiek.

 

[Mr.C]

lieessss all lies

 

[sheepyman]

I changed my mind though, I think that Fox/Falco Sheik Marth is still the best tierlist. Even if Sheik does a lot better as you go down the tier list (even if Fox still annihilates the rest as well), it doesn't matter, because they both still win the matchup by a large enough margin that nobody should care. Plus, lowtiers aren't common in tournaments anyway.

So as a tournament character, Fox/Falco are the best, then Sheik, by a small margin.

Marth beats Fox/Falco as much as Fox/Falco beat Sheik.

Not a lot in both cases, and a lot of it is stage dependent.

Personally I'd go so far as to say Fox/Falco beat both Marth and Sheik, especially since it's pretty common to see M2K/KDJ/PC use space animals to beat Azen and Ken. The only iffy matchup is Fox/Falco vs Sheik, which is only even questionably for Fox, which most people would agree is either Fox slanted or even, unless they're Foxes who are making pre-emptive johns.

 

[StripesOrBars]

I play all 4.

They're all the same.

I play Fox and Marth mostly, but I will go Falco and Shiek(if I wanna be a total ***).

Among others too.

Edit: Don't go by my sig. I gave the guy who made it a bunch of characters to put in and he only put in 4.

 

[Plairnkk]

doodah ur not good at this game, stick to ur terrible fox

 

[JBM falcon08]

sheik is terrible, marth is king

 

[cowboyardee]

An honest question:

Can someone who believes sheik is almost even with falco and knows what they're talking about (doodah maybe) explain why this matchup goes close to even? I believe I have a general understanding of why fox/sheik isn't so bad as people made it out to be for a long time, but my (mediocre) understanding of falco/sheik is that sheik ***** falco off the edge but has an impossible time getting him there, whereas every trick in falco's arsenal works great against sheik. I'm honestly curious -- what's the argument for sheik not getting her *** kicked? What are her options? (please don't say powersheilding until I see pro vids of people doing it reliably in a competitive setting)
As much detail as you're willing to type out, please.

(N.B. -- I play both falco and sheik among my secondaries, so I don't think of myself as biased)

 

[Aesir]

LOL, there's no more rep you n00b. Why are you still here?

theres no more rep why're you still talking about it?

Wow. . . . here:

Are you just using that cause you can't think of anything else?

pretty sure zoso was talking about the one who posted before me, but I could be mistaken.

@ Gaysir

That was less witty then germ calling me assir.

 

[Nightblade]

I would also say that Sheik is better than the above mentioned (Marth, Fox, Falco) simply because at non-competitive level (without SHFFL, wavedashing, and the stuff many people don't know about) Sheik is really good. Adding advanced techniques to Fox, Falco, and Marth do a LOT more than it does for Sheik. I've heard it said that L-canceling, for example, cuts your recovery time in half. If the recovery time for Sheik is 6 frames and 10 frames for the rest, you L-cancel them all to get 3/5. The difference becomes a lot less noticeable.

In a group of friends I have, we had a Sheik, Fox, Pikachu, Marth and Bowser player. That was about the order that you could expect as far as winning is concerned. After we added a couple techniques (L-canceling, tech-rolling, edgehogging, some short hops or wavedashes), Fox and Marth stood toe-to-toe with Sheik far more often, Pikachu couldn't hold a breath against anyone, and the Bowser (who could short-hop any aerial) could hold his own against most (she had to absorb some chaingrabs though).

 

[Ares726]

I think that Sheik is the best character in the game without advanced techniques. I think Marth is the second best character in the game without advanced techniques. I also think that Sheik benefits the least from advanced techs out of every character in the game. If not the least then pretty close to it. I think Marth also benefits slightly from advanced techs, but not nearly as much as other characters.

Fox and Falco are only as good as they are because of advanced techs. The same can be said for Peach, CF, IC, Bowser, Link, Ness, Ganon, etc.

Therefore, I think that Fox and Falco ranking above Sheik and Marth in the tier list is quite accurate. Think of it this way, Sheik is an 8 without adv. techs, Marth is an 7.5, Fox is a 6, and Falco is a 6. When adv. techs are implemented into gameplay Fox becomes a 9.5, Falco becomes a 9.5, Sheik becomes a 9, and Marth becomes a 9.

Sheik is the best character without adv. techs. (period) With adv. techs, she is not, Fox and Falco are better (overall). However, I think that Fox vs. Sheik and Falco vs. Sheik are pretty much 50/50 matches. Without adv. techs Sheik murders them, but with adv. techs it's an even match.

Discuss.

Nightblade, I posted this a few pages ago, and it's exactly what you posted (kind of). However, we're not talking about noobs, we're talking about people who know what they're doing.

 

[Plairnkk]

An honest question:

Can someone who believes sheik is almost even with falco and knows what they're talking about (doodah maybe) explain why this matchup goes close to even? I believe I have a general understanding of why fox/sheik isn't so bad as people made it out to be for a long time, but my (mediocre) understanding of falco/sheik is that sheik ***** falco off the edge but has an impossible time getting him there, whereas every trick in falco's arsenal works great against sheik. I'm honestly curious -- what's the argument for sheik not getting her *** kicked? What are her options? (please don't say powersheilding until I see pro vids of people doing it reliably in a competitive setting)
As much detail as you're willing to type out, please.

(N.B. -- I play both falco and sheik among my secondaries, so I don't think of myself as biased)

i powershield probably 75% of falco's lasers consistently, and it helps but it's not a huge factor. the things that keep sheik doing decently vs falco are her tilt combos and edgeguarding. her uair trades with falcos dair as does her utilt. Tech chase is really good too, and once falco's off the edge he's done. Nonetheless falco does have nastage **** on sheik, but it's certainly possible