Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[WindMajor]

What's up Samus mains?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.

You guys got nothing for me?

 

[IsmaR]

Most boards take time to answer these things. The Samus boards take time to consider not lurking to consider thinking about possibly answering these things. Eventually.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I just go Wario on Brinstar so I don't have any samus-related input.


You can tether everywhere.

 

[Darkshadow7827]

What's up Samus mains?

I have a couple of questions I want to ask and I'd like you guys to help me answer them. They're all related to Norfair by the way.

1) How does your character fare with just the stage? Does your character benefit from the layout and the numerous hazards or do they normally hinder you?
2) How does your character generally fare on this stage against certain matchups? Does he excel in a lot of them and only has a few bad MUs, or is he generally bad on this stage against a large portion of the cast?
3) What are some general strategies for your character on this stage? Controlling the center? Stalling? Staying mobile?
4) Overall, would you say that this stage is mostly good for your character, mostly bad, or depends?

Thanks in advance!

Spoiler

This mass survey across most of the character boards is admin approved.

I can post my opinion, but I, ya know, suck in general and most of my results come from Snake and not samus (although I'm trying very hard!).

1) Umm, I wouldn't really say she benefits from the layout, but it doesn't hurt her. Samus sucks at killing so trying to lure someone up to the topmost platform may make getting a horizontal kill a lil easier. Samus has a good ledge game so all the ledges gives her options to stall and try and shark with uair.

2) Hmmmm. Theorycraft time :/ Well, I can imagine this stage being great against ICs, maybe Falco and maybe D3, maybe even for Snake, and probably terrible for Mk, wario, and perhaps Marth.

For ICs, there's a lot of platforms to camp on and the lava wall, fountain, and floor can help break CGs. Camping will be that much easier on Norfair.

For falco, he's pretty annoying with his lasers, but I feel the lack of ground space will limit his annoying jab cancel game and SHDL > dacus game.

D3 will be a pain in the *** due to his weight and bairs, but, again, the small ground space and lava can help us not get infinited.

For Snake, I think it might be even. He's a fatty, relies a lot on ground game and tilts but the stage gives him a lot of options to plant C4s that blend in with the bg and claymores. His utilt can go through platforms.

3) I can see Samus camping the outer platforms and dropping towards the lowest middle platform when at kill percents. If I recall correctly, Samus vertical momentum cancel or whatever isn't that great since she's floaty - fast falling doesn't do much. I can see Samus DIing purely horizontal at the low middle platform to try and airdogdge > tether one of the 3 ledges to survive at kill percents. If Samus gets the percent or stock lead, she can try and stall by tether ledge > drop > tether > drop > so on to time out and save up on ledge grabs, not that I've seen a match where a samus player went over the ledge grab limit.

4) I would say depends. The lava can mess with our early dair kills.

5) This is my pretty lame answer. Take what I say with a grain of salt since I typically have better results with Snake compared to Samus. Perhaps this will ignite some people to post their own opinion or shoot down everything I say (noid) and thus end up answering your post

 

[MARLX]

What is samus' momentom cancel?

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I believe it's Uair?

Can someone teach me how to play Olimar? D: I've been training my Samus hard lately so I can possibly go all Samus at my next tourney. I was in a Wifi Tourney last night and I swept through WB until I played an Olimar and got wrecked >_< I have no idea what to do.

I know Nair is good for getting right of Pikmin, but I dunno much else. It's hard not to go aggro because Olimar's camping > Samus'.

 

[PEACE7]

What's the best thing to do after a jablock across the stage at high percents?

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Poll from the BBR-RC to the public: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310386

Discussion about it is not allowed per site rules (even in this thread), but we are allowed to conduct this poll

you heard it from me

 

[-Ominous-]

So, I kinda use Samus a little. Just in friendlies though. I can do ok in some matchups with her, but I have issues against fast characters. I try to keep my distance, but I end up failingat doing so. Zair become almost useless to me in some matchups. What should I do in matchups like these?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

against faster characters i try to use less zair and more homing missile cancel to force them to react and punish the reaction. just gotta read how they are moving and punish

 

[Xyro77]

What is samus' momentom cancel?

u air to down b

just like gw nair to down b

What's the best thing to do after a jablock across the stage at high percents?

charge shot or titlted up fsmash

 

[Stealth Raptor]

bair also works, its what i use

 

[IsmaR]

That works, on account of your B-air usually being fresh. I like going for D-tilt depending on the character, usually better on lightweights.

 

[pwned-by-the-poob]

Hi guys. I'm back into playing Brawl and the last time I even looked at smashboards was like a year ago. Are there any new discoveries/tactics/playstyles etc. that came up in the past year? thanks.

 

[Fenix.Heat]

Hi, im a samus user since the 64 and im very good a it but, can really a good samus go against some Match ups?? i mean, she is pretty bad at the tier list and I was thinking it may be right...., the main problem i have with my samus is that i get "predictable" in some way.... my friends say that i play in secuences... i really didnt notice that but actually is true!.... how can i change that?

PD:sorry if there is grammar mistakes lol

 

[Sarix]

can really a good samus go against some Match ups?? i mean, she is pretty bad at the tier list and I was thinking it may be right...., the main problem i have with my samus is that i get "predictable" in some way.... my friends say that i play in secuences... i really didnt notice that but actually is true!.... how can i change that?

The first question you're asking is somewhat inspecific; if you mean could someone who mains Samus go against her more difficult matchups like D3 and Falco then technically yes, that isn't to say it wouldn't be very very difficult for her though.

For the second part, what kind of "sequences" do your friends find predictable? If it's something like overrelying on certain moves at certain times then you should just try using other moves and seeing how they interact and what they can lead into to give you more options to be less predictable, one of Samus's pros is that she has a solid mixup game so it shouldn't be super difficult to break constant patterns.

 

[Sol9000]

What does Z-Air mean again? :3 I am fail at Super Smash Slang

 

[Sarix]

It means Z Aerial, when you jump with characters like Samus then press Z while airborne she will fire her grapple beam as an attack. This is extremely useful and typically you want to short hop it, it should be something to learn to use effectively ASAP, as it is a core of Samus's zoning tools.

 

[Sol9000]

It means Z Aerial, when you jump with characters like Samus then press Z while airborne she will fire her grapple beam as an attack. This is extremely useful and typically you want to short hop it, it should be something to learn to use effectively ASAP, as it is a core of Samus's zoning tools.

Well okay, then! :D

 

[Legend of the Tundra]

Hey guys. I began maining Samus only a couple of weeks ago, and playing competitively only months ago. My much more experienced friend and I were just kind of being casual while he taught me some things that he sees Samus do, and he mentioned that often they'll air dodge to zair. So I tried it and discovered that the zair cancels the air dodge. Is this some mega-useful thing that I've been missing out on, and how can I take full advantage of it? What are some typical situations that instantly come to mind that this tactic can be used in?

 

[waldorf2007]

....use it all the time
ALLL THE TIME
it hits so much
it hits THROUGH the stage on most neutrals and that's pretty safe, especially if you're confident you can tech.
it is UNSCALED. 4 damage to 7 damage at tip
the tip can kill, DEFINITELY. one jump out to zair against a 150%+ can kill when they're trying to recover safely
one zair often combos into another.
it goes through just about everything.
I mean just use that **** whenever you land, unless the opponent is way too close and ready to powershield to punish.

 

[Legend of the Tundra]

Could you clarify on what you mean by "through the stage" with examples. I've seen it said several times, but just can't visualize where that statement is applicable.

On a completely separate topic, what are some of the most effective ways of getting back on stage from the ledge. I don't have trouble surviving on the ledge, but my opponent will often meet me there, wait for my action (release/jump, jump, attack, roll on) and react to somehow put me right back to where I was but with a higher percentage. Is there a way to punish this that will make him not want to do it anymore and give me space?

 

[IsmaR]

There's a variety of things, repeatedly using tether drop, stall with bombs, attempt to catch them with F-air/U-air, wall jump > B-air/Missiles/Charge Shot, getting up without attacking or as said before, Z-air through the stage. I find the latter pretty useful on BF, PS1, Smashville, etc. Depends on mindgames, or lackthereof.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I didn't know you could zair through the stage on PS1.

Also if you're getting beat getting back on stage a lot, you need to mix up your options more, become less predictable. Your opponent shouldn't be able to cover all your options blindly.

Also airdodge.

1Down2Jared3Money

 

[IsmaR]

PS1/2 have lots of under the stage shenanigans, if you couldn't already tell. My favorite thing on BF/Smashville just going under the stage and coming back up on the other side.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Oh I know my share of goofy understage shenanigans on Pokemon Stadium(s) I just thought the ledge prevented zairing through.

1Down2Jared3Money

 

[Stealth Raptor]

PS2 is my favorite stage with samus <333 gotten so many people to ban it vs me in low tiers LOL

 

[IsmaR]

Bomb stalling on PS2 Flying/Electric. <3

It whiffs 'em usually, Poser, but I've hit a few people out of dumb luck with it. Keeps 'em wary. PS1 during Rock/Water/Fire also has walls that can be Z-air'd through, too.

 

[Zanx8]

PS1/PS2 are so fun to play on! Also, how do you fight Marth? I've been having so much trouble with him and playing so many makes it a pain.

 

[Sarix]

There should be a thread in the MU discussion about it Zanx.

The approach I take is similar to how I handle it with Peach by playing defensively and using baiting and punishing albeit it is more difficult for Samus because Marth has ways to tear through her projectiles and has a good anti ledge game. If he's ever above you Uair him, Samus's Uair has increasing priority throughout its duration and not many Dairs beat it that I know of. Otherwise spacing is really important for both characters but for Samus it's because her CQC is weaker.

 

[Zanx8]

The MU discussion thread was completely dead, so I decided to post in here instead. xD Sorry!
Thanks for the info, hopefully I can start beating Marth soon. >.>

 

[GasyNinja]

uhhh k den the stage doesnt really matter doe but bf is a good stage

 

[Zanx8]

Stages matter for certain match-ups. =P

 

[Sago]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atzP1Iaqjk0

lol you guys were talking about stage tricks...

by the way. i just got the internet for the first time in 2 and a half years today so i figure sometime in the next month ill have a new samus combo video and probably a solid 40 matchs all samus. mk is sort of banned after all.

 

[Selentine]

I find Samus's bombs to be very useful. Great for when you're being approached.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I mean they definitely have applications but they are rarely practical.

I forget where I said it but I think if bomb ever has a practical use it's for momentum/movement tricks.

 

[-Crews-]

I find Samus's bombs to be very useful. Great for when you're being approached.

Agreed.

I mean they definitely have applications but they are rarely practical.

I forget where I said it but I think if bomb ever has a practical use it's for momentum/movement tricks.

Bombs are much more usefull than that. Most of the time when my opponent is trying to recover depending on their recovery options, at some point during their recovery, I run just off the ledge of the stage, downB, then "drift/slide" right back on to the ledge while still as a morph ball. This usually results in 2 things. The first and most frequent result is that the opponent fears getting hit by the bomb and goes straight for the ledge. This is fine, it actually leads to other optoins covered later. The second and least likely of two things that usually happen when I send a bomb below the ledge of the stage is that the bomb actually disrupts the opponents recovery and from there, I usually attempt the meteor spike. Sometimes you get the spike ,but most of the time you won't. It isn't very punishable by the opponent and looks super flashy so it is very much applicable and worth trying by all Samus users.

Now, as mentioned eariler, the most likely result that will occur from a bomb timed to explode in the recovery path of the opponent is that that opponent will grab the ledge. In the case that this happens, after I send my initial bomb below the stage where the opponent is revovering, I then release another bomb right on the stage where the opponent would getup/getup attack from the ledge. Not wanting to take the bomb damage, I've noticed that in this situation, the opponent usually either jumps to get over the ledge and avoid the bomb, or gets up and sheilds. With great ledge pressure, I feel that it is pretty easy to force one of these two very predictable getups from the opponent off of the ledge simply from bombs alone. And once you can read the opponent, you can have the upper hand. This "stragety" is actually pretty useful once you've practiced it and I reccommend it to all Samus users.

EDIT: Upon further contemplation, I have realized that the oponent also has and somewhat often uses the option to roll back onto the stage as well in addition to what I have already listed, but it doesn't really matter. I normally drop a bomb right near the ledge and "drift" back a little so that I may cover all of my opponents ledge options. If you remember nothing else, just remember to lay a bomb on the ledge in front of an opponent hanging on the ledge. Most likely they will not get up right where you have just laid a bomb meaning that their options are that much more limited and readable. If they catch on to your bomb shenanagans and decide to "stall" on the ledge and wait for the bomb to explode before they get up, that too is fine. Lay another bomb before the first one explodes and read their reaction. Just make sure that in between laying bombs you are spamming either homing missiles or uncharged shots. Because when you add her bombs, missiles, and zair to the mix, she actually has a decent ledge pressure game once you're good at using her as a character.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Please tell me people are finally starting to realize bombs are useful. I said this like 4 years ago and nobody believed me. I use bombs allll the tiiiiiiiiiiiime and so can you

 

[zFlashyStyle]

Can anyone tell me what i should train with Zamus? I like using her and i won't mind getting better with her.

 

[waldorf2007]

zamus or samus...?
wha?
are you in the right board?